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Author Topic: Bubs & Judd Review No Pier Pressure  (Read 35888 times)
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« Reply #100 on: May 12, 2016, 09:48:00 PM »

I thought the guest appearances became grating after a while. In retrospect, a rather sh*t album of Brian's was sold based on a lot of guest appearances...we should have seen this coming. I stand by the 1.5 I gave No Pier Pressure on here a while back. The Al/David/Blondie collaborations are the best tracks on the album; the rest is predominantly total bloody garbage. I never expected Brian to have another album as bad as Gettin' in Over My Head in him. I was wrong.
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« Reply #101 on: May 12, 2016, 09:54:57 PM »

I thought the guest appearances became grating after a while. In retrospect, a rather sh*t album of Brian's was sold based on a lot of guest appearances...we should have seen this coming. I stand by the 1.5 I gave No Pier Pressure on here a while back. The Al/David/Blondie collaborations are the best tracks on the album; the rest is predominantly total bloody garbage. I never expected Brian to have another album as bad as Gettin' in Over My Head in him. I was wrong.

Do you think your feeling would change somewhat if the guest starts were sidelined, and if Brian and his bandmates sang most (or all) of the same songs?
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« Reply #102 on: May 12, 2016, 09:56:21 PM »

Nope. The songs in general weren't really that good to begin with. I don't even know if Carl coming back from the afterlife would have made them any better.
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« Reply #103 on: May 12, 2016, 10:00:41 PM »

I really didn't want to dislike/borderline hate the record, since it had some legitimately great material (What Ever Happened, The Right Time, One Kind of Love) and some really good stuff (Sail Away, The Last Song). If Runaway Dancer wasn't on the record it probably would have received a 2 - marginally better than Gettin' in Over My Head, leagues worse than the self-titled and the Gershwin record.
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« Reply #104 on: May 12, 2016, 10:53:16 PM »

Cripes. This grief Bubs and Judd are getting for having opinions that evolve over time is (again) why I never bothered to post much about my own opinions of NPP at the time of its release. It really is a very mixed album - something like four extended, overlapping mini albums in one. Individually, some of the tracks are outstanding; others are excruciating compared to Brian's overall output. Runaway Dancer and Don't Worry are skipped every time. Guess You Had To Be There, and This Beautiful Day, are each outstanding in their own ways by have nothing else in common, something that makes for a disjointed album (unlike, say, TLOS, BWPS or, even, Pet Sounds and Surfer Girl).

At the first listen I was much more sold on the album as a whole - it's very varied and even adventurous in places - but in the following weeks my opinions fermented and over the last year have only solidified along the lines described above.

I think it's a real shame that those prepared to post opinions - in an honest, humorous way - get jumped on for not towing a line, for having perhaps even adopted a different view in the ensuing year. Especially when the talk should be of the music, as the thread started out, and not personal jibes along the lines of "clone" and digging up old posts as if we should all have to stick rigidly to  opinions cited more than a year ago.
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« Reply #105 on: May 12, 2016, 11:00:36 PM »

Judd and Josh are two young, intelligent and witty guys. I can say this because I have known them for the past 3 years. Here they have clearly created a review format that people find interesting and entertaining. Their review of NPP is so honest and amusing people ask for more album reviews. I would call that a huge success, for it is.

I am glad J/J do not feel any pier pressure from other board members and just do their thing.
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« Reply #106 on: May 12, 2016, 11:08:26 PM »

I am glad J/J do not feel any pier pressure from other board members and just do their thing.

NICE! LOL
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« Reply #107 on: May 12, 2016, 11:20:24 PM »

I do think the all the guest stars are a big problem with this record. The numerous voices and their inevitable influence on the songs make the album as a whole less cohesive. Not to mention the fact that almost half of the lead vocals on Brian's solo album are taken up by people that are not Brian. He has to be a bit of an outlier in that regard, right? You don't pick up a Bowie, Dylan, McCartney, Nilsson, etc. album and expect to hear several different people taking the lead.

Also, I haven't actually heard too much of Brian's solo output myself. I've listened to BW88 a couple times (and it's decent--"MELT AWAY" IS THE BEST THING EVER), and TLOS once or twice, but that's pretty much the extent of it. So, when it comes to my thoughts on No Pier Pressure, they're not informed by the experience of listening to most of Brian's other solo outings.
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« Reply #108 on: May 12, 2016, 11:21:20 PM »

Cripes. This grief Bubs and Judd are getting for having opinions that evolve over time is (again) why I never bothered to post much about my own opinions of NPP at the time of its release.

A lot of people on here would start an argument in an empty room. I enjoyed reading it. Small criticism would be that you maybe influenced each others thinking but hard to avoid that I guess.
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« Reply #109 on: May 12, 2016, 11:36:30 PM »

I do think the all the guest stars are a big problem with this record. The numerous voices and their inevitable influence on the songs make the album as a whole less cohesive. Not to mention the fact that almost half of the lead vocals on Brian's solo album are taken up by people that are not Brian. He has to be a bit of an outlier in that regard, right? You don't pick up a Bowie, Dylan, McCartney, Nilsson, etc. album and expect to hear several different people taking the lead.

Also, I haven't actually heard too much of Brian's solo output myself. I've listened to BW88 a couple times (and it's decent--"MELT AWAY" IS THE BEST THING EVER), and TLOS once or twice, but that's pretty much the extent of it. So, when it comes to my thoughts on No Pier Pressure, they're not informed by the experience of listening to most of Brian's other solo outings.

Agree that the various influences of various personalities on style can be distracting though GYHTBT and SNOHB are arguably two of the strongest, likeable tracks on NPP. I don't, however, have an issue with the multifarious lead vocals on the album; Brian worked that way for almost the first half of his career after all! Wink
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« Reply #110 on: May 13, 2016, 12:48:55 AM »

I've hardly listened to this album since the first month of it coming out. I shall listen to it today and review it (if I'm inspired to) in the review subforum. Thanks for the enjoyable review.
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« Reply #111 on: May 13, 2016, 01:04:01 AM »

I do think the all the guest stars are a big problem with this record. The numerous voices and their inevitable influence on the songs make the album as a whole less cohesive. Not to mention the fact that almost half of the lead vocals on Brian's solo album are taken up by people that are not Brian. He has to be a bit of an outlier in that regard, right? You don't pick up a Bowie, Dylan, McCartney, Nilsson, etc. album and expect to hear several different people taking the lead.

Also, I haven't actually heard too much of Brian's solo output myself. I've listened to BW88 a couple times (and it's decent--"MELT AWAY" IS THE BEST THING EVER), and TLOS once or twice, but that's pretty much the extent of it. So, when it comes to my thoughts on No Pier Pressure, they're not informed by the experience of listening to most of Brian's other solo outings.

Bubs, what?  You haven't heard too much of Brian's solo output?  I'd get busy.  Start with the one he did with Van Dyke, Orange Crate Art.  He sings all of the leads on Van Dyke's album.
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« Reply #112 on: May 13, 2016, 02:53:53 AM »

Also, I haven't actually heard too much of Brian's solo output myself. I've listened to BW88 a couple times (and it's decent--"MELT AWAY" IS THE BEST THING EVER), and TLOS once or twice, but that's pretty much the extent of it. So, when it comes to my thoughts on No Pier Pressure, they're not informed by the experience of listening to most of Brian's other solo outings.

That's good to know. Your experience with Brian's solo output which is now up to 28 years' worth of solo releases and over a dozen albums including albums of originals and covers plus live releases is limited to a few spins of TLOS, a few more than that for BW 88, and a copy of NPP that sounds like someone gave to you as a gift.

I remembered this comment from a few pages ago:

What was so cool about this was that someone's real feel for the album was able to be expressed without an immediate fierce response from certain folks who are extremely protective of all things Brian.....you guys obviously love Brian enough to care deeply about what comes down the pike. Keep up the yuks, so refreshing....


It would seem this thread's rolling commentary on NPP might have come from places other than a love of Brian and caring deeply for what comes down the pike if at least one reviewer admits to not listening to or even knowing Brian's discography other than a few spins of two BW solo albums. I'd also ask at that point if the disappointment in this latest album comes from that lack of knowledge of what Brian's solo music actually is or what it sounded like when he wasn't cutting records with and for the Beach Boys.
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« Reply #113 on: May 13, 2016, 03:10:39 AM »

I think it's a real shame that those prepared to post opinions - in an honest, humorous way - get jumped on for not towing a line, for having perhaps even adopted a different view in the ensuing year. Especially when the talk should be of the music, as the thread started out, and not personal jibes along the lines of "clone" and digging up old posts as if we should all have to stick rigidly to  opinions cited more than a year ago.

I'd recommend going back and finding where the comment about "towing the line" was first written and who wrote it, and consider the context particularly to whom the comments were being directed. Then it might seem even more absurd than me for one asking the reviewers for reasons why specific opinions have seemingly changed to this extent. As a fan myself, and knowing as we all learned as children that opinions can and do change, I'm curious *why* in this case, or what made them change so drastically.

Again, consider reading through these pages where it's clear to see which comments were made outside the area of talking "about the music" or even about the NPP commentary itself and who was making those posts. Unless taking shots at the Brian Wilson forum and challenging a board member's status as a Beach Boys fan is talking about the music and I just missed that item on the daily memo...
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« Reply #114 on: May 13, 2016, 03:15:03 AM »

Also, I haven't actually heard too much of Brian's solo output myself. I've listened to BW88 a couple times (and it's decent--"MELT AWAY" IS THE BEST THING EVER), and TLOS once or twice, but that's pretty much the extent of it. So, when it comes to my thoughts on No Pier Pressure, they're not informed by the experience of listening to most of Brian's other solo outings.

That's good to know. Your experience with Brian's solo output which is now up to 28 years' worth of solo releases and over a dozen albums including albums of originals and covers plus live releases is limited to a few spins of TLOS, a few more than that for BW 88, and a copy of NPP that sounds like someone gave to you as a gift.

I remembered this comment from a few pages ago:

What was so cool about this was that someone's real feel for the album was able to be expressed without an immediate fierce response from certain folks who are extremely protective of all things Brian.....you guys obviously love Brian enough to care deeply about what comes down the pike. Keep up the yuks, so refreshing....


It would seem this thread's rolling commentary on NPP might have come from places other than a love of Brian and caring deeply for what comes down the pike if at least one reviewer admits to not listening to or even knowing Brian's discography other than a few spins of two BW solo albums. I'd also ask at that point if the disappointment in this latest album comes from that lack of knowledge of what Brian's solo music actually is or what it sounded like when he wasn't cutting records with and for the Beach Boys.

They wouldn't even have to have ever heard of Brian to give their informed opinion of his album. 
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« Reply #115 on: May 13, 2016, 03:47:52 AM »

In my own self-important opinion, this is the way all musical criticism should be done from now on, instead some someone banging on as if their own self-important opinion was some sort of knowledge being handed down.

That's what blogging is for in the digital age. It's also come to a perhaps more technocratic model where Twitter limits how much someone can write and filters by design whose "tweets" are followed in mass quantities based on perceived celebrity status or one's ability to be witty or insightful in a dozen words while ignoring the art of analysis and in many cases, basic grammar and the proper use of language.

I've been very clear on my own opinions of reviewers and critics. As of 2016 I have no time for them, as a general rule with few exceptions. And a lot of it has to do with how many are content to sign their name as a de facto authority on the topic they're reviewing enough to hand down those opinions as if from a place of higher knowledge or expertise when in fact they are sometimes ignorant of the basic facts or background of what they're reviewing. Maybe some consider reviewing a new album or film as equal to the "Mystery Diner" in a local paper trying out a new steak n' ale franchise in town and raving over the onion rings while saying "the salad was disappointing", but I think there has to be more to it, more responsibility perhaps to actually know more than the average reader about the work of art and artist being reviewed, especially if it is critical.

But maybe I'm spoiled too by having read my fair share of rock journalism and rock criticism from a bygone era. We can all list the obvious names, Christgau, Bangs, Paul Williams, etc. It's often bashed and rightfully so, but picking up a copy of Rolling Stone's original record reviews from their first few years, there is some terrific rock journalism mixed in with the ridiculous, including a few that were very insightful takes on Beach Boys albums from Friends to Sunflower.

In those cases, those writers and journalists were more often than not actually writing with more than a working knowledge of what they were reviewing and analyzing, not just the actual album or song but what surrounded it as well.

At the same time in history, in any number of dorms, lofts, garage hangouts, bedrooms, basements, etc...there were a few buddies passing around a bottle of muscatel, shaking out a bag of seeds and stems to hopefully get enough to pack a bowl made from tinfoil, drop the needle on the latest album they had bought, and start rapping about it. Which I'm sure in some cases was as insightful and as brilliant if not moreso than any number of "published" reviews. But in most cases, it was a bunch of guys and gals sitting around getting zonked and talking. Worthy of publication and distribution to readers, or just a few pals having a rap session?

Many elements and sides to this. If it's up to me, I'll listen and judge for myself, because I think the blogging and podcasting and tweeting and all else has watered down the art of rock journalism so it's almost on par with reviewing a Happy Meal at McDonalds...with few exceptions. Anyone can blog if they set up an account, there are millions to choose from. I worry that the actual quality of the writing and analysis plays much less of a role in reaching an audience and saying something meaningful and knowledgeable than other variables.
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« Reply #116 on: May 13, 2016, 04:59:27 AM »

The first music criticism I remember was Jon Landau in Eye magazine. I think I remember it anyway. I was a big fan until he got carried away with Springsteen and I realized it is just an opinion regardless of how much justification he threw at it.  Still not a Springsteen fan and my '70s opinion has been born out by history as Bruce was never heard from again after that.
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« Reply #117 on: May 13, 2016, 05:48:15 AM »

That's what blogging is for in the digital age. It's also come to a perhaps more technocratic model where Twitter limits how much someone can write and filters by design whose "tweets" are followed in mass quantities based on perceived celebrity status or one's ability to be witty or insightful in a dozen words while ignoring the art of analysis and in many cases, basic grammar and the proper use of language.

I've been very clear on my own opinions of reviewers and critics. As of 2016 I have no time for them, as a general rule with few exceptions. And a lot of it has to do with how many are content to sign their name as a de facto authority on the topic they're reviewing enough to hand down those opinions as if from a place of higher knowledge or expertise when in fact they are sometimes ignorant of the basic facts or background of what they're reviewing. Maybe some consider reviewing a new album or film as equal to the "Mystery Diner" in a local paper trying out a new steak n' ale franchise in town and raving over the onion rings while saying "the salad was disappointing", but I think there has to be more to it, more responsibility perhaps to actually know more than the average reader about the work of art and artist being reviewed, especially if it is critical.

But maybe I'm spoiled too by having read my fair share of rock journalism and rock criticism from a bygone era. We can all list the obvious names, Christgau, Bangs, Paul Williams, etc. It's often bashed and rightfully so, but picking up a copy of Rolling Stone's original record reviews from their first few years, there is some terrific rock journalism mixed in with the ridiculous, including a few that were very insightful takes on Beach Boys albums from Friends to Sunflower.

In those cases, those writers and journalists were more often than not actually writing with more than a working knowledge of what they were reviewing and analyzing, not just the actual album or song but what surrounded it as well.

At the same time in history, in any number of dorms, lofts, garage hangouts, bedrooms, basements, etc...there were a few buddies passing around a bottle of muscatel, shaking out a bag of seeds and stems to hopefully get enough to pack a bowl made from tinfoil, drop the needle on the latest album they had bought, and start rapping about it. Which I'm sure in some cases was as insightful and as brilliant if not moreso than any number of "published" reviews. But in most cases, it was a bunch of guys and gals sitting around getting zonked and talking. Worthy of publication and distribution to readers, or just a few pals having a rap session?

Many elements and sides to this. If it's up to me, I'll listen and judge for myself, because I think the blogging and podcasting and tweeting and all else has watered down the art of rock journalism so it's almost on par with reviewing a Happy Meal at McDonalds...with few exceptions. Anyone can blog if they set up an account, there are millions to choose from. I worry that the actual quality of the writing and analysis plays much less of a role in reaching an audience and saying something meaningful and knowledgeable than other variables.

Brace yourself for this, Craig, but this is one area where in which I agree with an awful lot of what you're saying here! LOL

Having earned a substantial portion of my income in the last decade from reviewing outdoor (read "hiking", my specialist field to this day) equipment, it was galling to see the amount of credibility the public at large and the industry in particular placed in blog reviews, some of which were written by genuine enthusiasts with experience to offer, but others were written by new kids inspired not by sharing any knowledge (because they had none to offer) but by the lure of free kit from companies wanting online exposure and the kudos of seeing the number of page "visits" rack up. Some gear companies became more interested in online exposure than genuine critiques of their products in respected journals.

As a professional journalist (qualified, almost decade on newspapers, 15 years on magazines and seven years freelancing…) it was dispiriting to see all that experience, and that of so many colleagues and peers, being devalued overnight by a bunch of Johnny-come-latelys who barged in and pulled the rug from under us – and they did that with some ease, as they didn't have to waste time doing tedious things like training, research, gaining experience, going through a process of sub-editing, layout and design, etc etc etc.

A blogger could have a five-star review online with an hour of receiving a product, before a pro had even had chance to give it the usual minimum two weeks (sometimes more, sometimes less) testing in the field. A blogger might review a single "waterproof Gore-Tex" jacket within hours, even in the midst of a drought and even though it was lined with Sympatex; I'd stare out of the door praying for a fortnight of rain so I could do a comparative report of, say, 12 different jackets. The research often took even longer than the product testing. I'm generalising but I think you'll get the drift.

I liked to think that my own reviews were, at times, entertaining as well as insightful – fun even – while the blogger might regard his task as primarily entertainment, with a splash of ego boost thrown in, and a dash of ass-licking to ensure the flow of free gear didn't suddenly dry up.  I'm ranting, and I'm not as bitter as I sound, but the drift in that direction is insidious and invidious, and infuriating if I sit and think about it for long enough…

My only area of difference is that of the difference between an authoritative review (ie, in a published magazine), or one claiming some integrity (perhaps, for example, at the BBC's website) and on a message board such as this. Message board reviews, to me, don't carry the same obligation for in-depth research and knowledge, beyond, perhaps, a love of the subject matter and a working knowledge of (in the case this thread has become about) a subject the poster loves. Message boards seem more of a here-today-gone-tomorrow medium (okay, some of the threads and posts on this board are academic in the extreme, which is a bonus), a place for knocking ideas to-and-fro, throwing things up for debate, a place where even a lack of spell-checking might be forgiven (by some!). A printed review, on the other hand, or one on a subscription/curated/archived site, ought to be – well – more authoritative, a source of reference for the future even.

I'm not making myself very clear, I fear, but yes I bemoan the lack of authority in widely circulated and respected review media but don't begrudge opinions on social media (including message boards), so along as they're not trying to sell themselves as something other than what they are.

I'm still not making myself very clear, I fear, but hope I'm getting the essence across!

Apologies also for any derailment…
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 05:51:45 AM by John Manning » Logged

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« Reply #118 on: May 13, 2016, 05:50:54 AM »

repeat rant…
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« Reply #119 on: May 13, 2016, 05:53:50 AM »

I really didn't want to dislike/borderline hate the record, since it had some legitimately great material (What Ever Happened, The Right Time, One Kind of Love) and some really good stuff (Sail Away, The Last Song). If Runaway Dancer wasn't on the record it probably would have received a 2 - marginally better than Gettin' in Over My Head, leagues worse than the self-titled and the Gershwin record.

I really liked NPP, but I do think the cattle call of guest artists do detract from the album a tad, and as a result, it's not really a cohesive listening experience like TLOS or even TGWMTR were. 

There's a lot of great BW material on the record, but then, there's some EDM thing and a country/pop thing that interupt the flow of the album. 

I still really enjoy most of the album, but I doubt I'll listen to it from start to finish as much as Imagination, Gershwin, or TLOS. 
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« Reply #120 on: May 13, 2016, 06:15:23 AM »

These kind of threads are one of the many reasons this place is not worth visiting. It's such a shame really that a fan forum like Smiley Smile is mostly filled with bashing and negativity. Just look up the recent posts section and most of the threads (if already aren't, will turn) into throwing sh*t into some direction. Everybody has their own opinions for sure, but I just wonder how is it possible for people call themselves Beach Boys - or Brian Wilson fans when it seems all they can say is negative sh*t?

Anyway, I just keep on wondering why Runaway Dancer splits peoples opinions so radically? I love it. It was my most played song in 2015. And I still listen it almost weekly. It's awesome as hell and would be even better if the synths were more louder and tempo a bit faster.

I like No Pier Pressure a lot. It's a great listen from start to finish. Filled with amazing summertime and feel good music. The production ain't the best and there is some weaker moments, but overall they don't distract me or sabotage my listening experience. I do agree with this review at least in something though, and that's I'm Feeling Sad. It's a great tune, maybe even the best on the whole album.
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« Reply #121 on: May 13, 2016, 06:18:58 AM »

John Manning, complete support for your rant, both in terms of the degradation of research, expertise and professionalism (and I'll add reason) and in that a message board is just a message board. I'll also add that Bubs is a great writer.
And that it's "toe" the line, not "tow" the line.
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« Reply #122 on: May 13, 2016, 06:25:22 AM »

These kind of threads are one of the many reasons this place is not worth visiting. It's such a shame really that a fan forum like Smiley Smile is mostly filled with bashing and negativity. Just look up the recent posts section and most of the threads (if already aren't, will turn) into throwing sh*t into some direction. Everybody has their own opinions for sure, but I just wonder how is it possible for people call themselves Beach Boys - or Brian Wilson fans when it seems all they can say is negative sh*t?

Anyway, I just keep on wondering why Runaway Dancer splits peoples opinions so radically? I love it. It was my most played song in 2015. And I still listen it almost weekly. It's awesome as hell and would be even better if the synths were more louder and tempo a bit faster.

I like No Pier Pressure a lot. It's a great listen from start to finish. Filled with amazing summertime and feel good music. The production ain't the best and there is some weaker moments, but overall they don't distract me or sabotage my listening experience. I do agree with this review at least in something though, and that's I'm Feeling Sad. It's a great tune, maybe even the best on the whole album.

I can explain my dislike for Runaway Dancer pretty easily.  I hate dance music.  

I hated the disco version of Here Comes the Night.

I hated the dabbling in rap on Summer of Love.

And I hate the EDM of Runaway Dancer.

Brian Wilson is one of the great composers of the rock era and always had a good solid band behind him, be it The Beach Boys, The Wrecking Crew, or his current band of Wondermints+.  To include an artificial EDM track on a Brian Wilson album just feels wrong to me.  

And despite my dislike for EDM, I tried hard to like the track.  I really did because I'm a fan of the album as a whole.  But when I hear those dance beats kick in, I just cringe.  

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I know a lot of posters on this board like hip hop, electronic, EDM, etc.  But, not for me.  And I can't believe that was one of four tracks on NPP that made the setlist last summer when there are literally a dozen tracks that would've been a better choice.  
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 06:26:57 AM by KDS » Logged
JK
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« Reply #123 on: May 13, 2016, 06:35:04 AM »

I think it's an (extremely rare nowadays) case of writing about music that's both irreverent, entertaining, AND insightful - even if you or I may not agree with the opinions.  Your mileage may vary of course, but I've enjoyed reading it.

The voice of reason (yet again). And boy do we need it right now.
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« Reply #124 on: May 13, 2016, 06:36:25 AM »

I do think the all the guest stars are a big problem with this record. The numerous voices and their inevitable influence on the songs make the album as a whole less cohesive. Not to mention the fact that almost half of the lead vocals on Brian's solo album are taken up by people that are not Brian. He has to be a bit of an outlier in that regard, right? You don't pick up a Bowie, Dylan, McCartney, Nilsson, etc. album and expect to hear several different people taking the lead.

Also, I haven't actually heard too much of Brian's solo output myself. I've listened to BW88 a couple times (and it's decent--"MELT AWAY" IS THE BEST THING EVER), and TLOS once or twice, but that's pretty much the extent of it. So, when it comes to my thoughts on No Pier Pressure, they're not informed by the experience of listening to most of Brian's other solo outings.

Bubs, what?  You haven't heard too much of Brian's solo output?  I'd get busy.  Start with the one he did with Van Dyke, Orange Crate Art.  He sings all of the leads on Van Dyke's album.

My favorite on that album is Sail Away which sounds very different from the Orange Crate Art track.  I can imagine Carl doing the lead, or Dennis doing shared sections with Al. Blondie does a great job on lead.  

Can't help my context; it sounds like great BB material.  Wish it was on TWGMTR.   Wink

Happy Friday people!  Beer
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