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Author Topic: Bubs & Judd Review No Pier Pressure  (Read 35893 times)
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« Reply #175 on: May 13, 2016, 01:37:01 PM »

The conversations on the first few pages of this particular thread show a "love for the artist"? Show those pages to people totally unaware of anything related to this and ask if they can feel the love being shown through all the expletives and negativity.

Seriously John? If this was a sign of love, I'd hate to see the results if such a "review" were done for an artist that was hated. And if this is informative, I must have missed those sections because I didn't see info being offered that was anything new or useful to further analyze or interpret this album as the discussion unfolded.

You seem to be ignoring all of his actual points in favor of debating with a total of five, randomly-selected words from his post.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 01:43:06 PM by Bubs » Logged
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« Reply #176 on: May 13, 2016, 01:41:07 PM »

Exactly right. And that's why my multiple years of listening to Brian Wilson's music makes me a knowledgeable and experienced reviewer.

I was answering Cam's post and also getting back to what John Manning shared about his own professional experience writing and publishing product reviews, but to answer this: By your own admission you've played two out of the dozen or so solo albums that Brian has released since 1988, and even those only a few times. If your frame of reference and base of working knowledge on Brian's solo discography is formed by what you heard from Brian on 40 or 50 year old Beach Boys albums that Brian made versus what he has done in his solo career, how is that presenting experience as influencing what you're setting out to review? If listeners are buying a solo Brian record with the expectation they'll be hearing "Summer Days..." or "Today" or any others versus what Brian has done as a solo artist, they're coming from an almost unrealistic point of expectation. There are plenty of copycat bands and artists if people want to hear the 1965 "Brian sound" in 2016, but Brian is 50 years older and his solo material is simply not along those lines, rather it's what he chooses to write and how he chooses his music to sound in the present day. It would be the same if someone who has only played two previous McCartney albums a few times reviews a newer solo McCartney album using his Beatles catalog as a reference point and expects to hear another "Hey Jude" or "We Can Work It Out", or someone buying then reviewing a newer Clapton solo release expects him to play and sound like he did on Fresh Cream, having only listened to 461 Ocean Boulevard or Layla from his solo catalog.


I wonder.. would you have gone through all this trouble if my review was positive? I mean, I know the answer, but still.

Same question. Cos I did try to distinguish between a pro review that claims authority, and all that jazz, and a message board review that's informative, honest and entertaining in the ethereal sense of message board posts and written purely from the standpoint of love for the artist. And we have to bear in mind that any album from any artist should stand up to being reviewed in isolation, on it's own merits, in the context of anyone's musical taste and experience. An LP/album isn't like a "Gore-Tex" jacket that has to shape up against others, it's a standalone work of art after all.

The conversations on the first few pages of this particular thread show a "love for the artist"? Show those pages to people totally unaware of anything related to this and ask if they can feel the love being shown through all the expletives and negativity.

Seriously John? If this was a sign of love, I'd hate to see the results if such a "review" were done for an artist that was hated. And if this is informative, I must have missed those sections because I didn't see info being offered that was anything new or useful to further analyze or interpret this album as the discussion unfolded.
Damn Craig, the whole thing was done for fun. Lighten the f-up. I wish you'd act like this when all devolving threads concerning Mike, pop up. They weren't ripping Brian personally, it was just an irreverent review of the music. Like we are told in other threads; Don't like it? Don't read it.
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On Stage As It Is In Studio,
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« Reply #177 on: May 13, 2016, 01:49:44 PM »

Not everybody will get or can handle this review, that is noted, now back to B & D's review.

Seriously, B & D, how about "Looking Back With Love"? 

If you don't have it, it used to be available on Youtube I think. C'mon. You know you want to.....(making tickling gestures).....it would be fuh-uhn......(hopping from foot to foot)...for us, anyway.
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« Reply #178 on: May 13, 2016, 01:53:23 PM »

It's fun to rip apart an album publicly? So this was a parody, a put on instead of what they really feel? I'd like to know.
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« Reply #179 on: May 13, 2016, 01:55:47 PM »

Fer chrissakes.... THIS TRUTHFULLY REPRESENTS HOW WE FEEL ABOUT THE ALBUM. WE ARE OF SOUND, MIND, AND BODY, AND THIS REVIEW WAS NOT CREATED UNDER DURESS.
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« Reply #180 on: May 13, 2016, 01:57:23 PM »

The conversations on the first few pages of this particular thread show a "love for the artist"? Show those pages to people totally unaware of anything related to this and ask if they can feel the love being shown through all the expletives and negativity.

Seriously John? If this was a sign of love, I'd hate to see the results if such a "review" were done for an artist that was hated. And if this is informative, I must have missed those sections because I didn't see info being offered that was anything new or useful to further analyze or interpret this album as the discussion unfolded.

You seem to be ignoring all of his actual points in favor of debating with a total of five, randomly-selected words from his post.

Yep, I'm not feeling the love shining through as I'm told I should be feeling when reading the "review".
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« Reply #181 on: May 13, 2016, 01:59:43 PM »

It's fun to rip apart an album publicly? So this was a parody, a put on instead of what they really feel? I'd like to know.

Rip apart? It is an opinion, stated in a fun and stylish way.  We don't have to agree with them.
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« Reply #182 on: May 13, 2016, 01:59:50 PM »

Fer chrissakes.... THIS TRUTHFULLY REPRESENTS HOW WE FEEL ABOUT THE ALBUM. WE ARE OF SOUND, MIND, AND BODY, AND THIS REVIEW WAS NOT CREATED UNDER DURESS.

So it was done for fun, it was supposed to be read as irreverence, but it's a truthful representation of how you feel? Might want to clarify that with Dr Beach Boy, if the review was actually intended to be your true feelings rather than irreverence done for fun.

Damn Craig, the whole thing was done for fun. Lighten the f-up. I wish you'd act like this when all devolving threads concerning Mike, pop up. They weren't ripping Brian personally, it was just an irreverent review of the music. Like we are told in other threads; Don't like it? Don't read it.
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« Reply #183 on: May 13, 2016, 02:03:08 PM »

Believe it or not, both are possible at the same time.

Please be a good moderator and stop acting this way. Please.
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« Reply #184 on: May 13, 2016, 02:05:44 PM »

.
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« Reply #185 on: May 13, 2016, 02:05:50 PM »

It's fun to rip apart an album publicly? So this was a parody, a put on instead of what they really feel? I'd like to know.

Rip apart? It is an opinion, stated in a fun and stylish way.  We don't have to agree with them.

Yep, chock full of fun and style, on par with a pair of steel-toed workboots and safety goggles.
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« Reply #186 on: May 13, 2016, 02:09:24 PM »

It's fun to rip apart an album publicly? So this was a parody, a put on instead of what they really feel? I'd like to know.

Rip apart? It is an opinion, stated in a fun and stylish way.  We don't have to agree with them.

Yep, chock full of fun and style, on par with a pair of steel-toed workboots and safety goggles.

OK. You're entitled to your opinion. I disagree with this and your insinuations about B & D.
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« Reply #187 on: May 13, 2016, 02:11:23 PM »

Believe it or not, both are possible at the same time.

Please be a good moderator and stop acting this way. Please.

Is THAT what this was about? Now it's more clear.

What on earth does being a good or bad moderator have to do with engaging in this conversation and discussion? I'm asking questions and offering replies, is that "misbehaving"? Maybe we'll have to rewrite those rules yet again...back to the ol' drawing board.

If you solicit opinions and reactions, at least be prepared to accept what comes in no matter who is replying. That's what an open forum does, it's a place for discussion.
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« Reply #188 on: May 13, 2016, 02:13:28 PM »

It's fun to rip apart an album publicly? So this was a parody, a put on instead of what they really feel? I'd like to know.

Rip apart? It is an opinion, stated in a fun and stylish way.  We don't have to agree with them.

Yep, chock full of fun and style, on par with a pair of steel-toed workboots and safety goggles.

OK. You're entitled to your opinion. I disagree with this and your insinuations about B & D.

Cam, what insinuations have I made about either one of them? Please give me an example and I'll address it. I originally asked "Dudd" a question about his change of mind since 2015, and he still hasn't replied, and the rest is just a rolling commentary and continuing discussion.

What insinuations have there been coming from me?
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« Reply #189 on: May 13, 2016, 02:14:49 PM »

Exactly right. And that's why my multiple years of listening to Brian Wilson's music makes me a knowledgeable and experienced reviewer.

I was answering Cam's post and also getting back to what John Manning shared about his own professional experience writing and publishing product reviews, but to answer this: By your own admission you've played two out of the dozen or so solo albums that Brian has released since 1988, and even those only a few times. If your frame of reference and base of working knowledge on Brian's solo discography is formed by what you heard from Brian on 40 or 50 year old Beach Boys albums that Brian made versus what he has done in his solo career, how is that presenting experience as influencing what you're setting out to review? If listeners are buying a solo Brian record with the expectation they'll be hearing "Summer Days..." or "Today" or any others versus what Brian has done as a solo artist, they're coming from an almost unrealistic point of expectation. There are plenty of copycat bands and artists if people want to hear the 1965 "Brian sound" in 2016, but Brian is 50 years older and his solo material is simply not along those lines, rather it's what he chooses to write and how he chooses his music to sound in the present day. It would be the same if someone who has only played two previous McCartney albums a few times reviews a newer solo McCartney album using his Beatles catalog as a reference point and expects to hear another "Hey Jude" or "We Can Work It Out", or someone buying then reviewing a newer Clapton solo release expects him to play and sound like he did on Fresh Cream, having only listened to 461 Ocean Boulevard or Layla from his solo catalog.


I wonder.. would you have gone through all this trouble if my review was positive? I mean, I know the answer, but still.

Same question. Cos I did try to distinguish between a pro review that claims authority, and all that jazz, and a message board review that's informative, honest and entertaining in the ethereal sense of message board posts and written purely from the standpoint of love for the artist. And we have to bear in mind that any album from any artist should stand up to being reviewed in isolation, on it's own merits, in the context of anyone's musical taste and experience. An LP/album isn't like a "Gore-Tex" jacket that has to shape up against others, it's a standalone work of art after all.

The conversations on the first few pages of this particular thread show a "love for the artist"? Show those pages to people totally unaware of anything related to this and ask if they can feel the love being shown through all the expletives and negativity.

Seriously John? If this was a sign of love, I'd hate to see the results if such a "review" were done for an artist that was hated. And if this is informative, I must have missed those sections because I didn't see info being offered that was anything new or useful to further analyze or interpret this album as the discussion unfolded.

Well, their comments informed my listening experience but given that they were throwaway comments on a message board only adds weight to my perception of their value.

As for the "love" element, ever read Congrieve's Way of the World? He premise is that the main character loves the object of his passions for [/]her faults, not despite them, and I get a sense of that for other posters in this thread too.

Now, I also tried to distinguish between the professional reviews and those that are out there for the love. Where is that line drawn? I dunno. I've had too much of this Dalwhinnie tonight and my line is blurred. Far as I'm aware these guys spoke about NPP from their hearts (aka "stated their current opinions") for no recompense. For the sheer pleasure of speaking openly. No obligations. And I admire that, really appreciate them putting their opinions and themselves out there,; gotta leave it here cos the phone's nearly dea

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« Reply #190 on: May 13, 2016, 02:18:29 PM »

Exactly right. And that's why my multiple years of listening to Brian Wilson's music makes me a knowledgeable and experienced reviewer.

I was answering Cam's post and also getting back to what John Manning shared about his own professional experience writing and publishing product reviews, but to answer this: By your own admission you've played two out of the dozen or so solo albums that Brian has released since 1988, and even those only a few times. If your frame of reference and base of working knowledge on Brian's solo discography is formed by what you heard from Brian on 40 or 50 year old Beach Boys albums that Brian made versus what he has done in his solo career, how is that presenting experience as influencing what you're setting out to review? If listeners are buying a solo Brian record with the expectation they'll be hearing "Summer Days..." or "Today" or any others versus what Brian has done as a solo artist, they're coming from an almost unrealistic point of expectation. There are plenty of copycat bands and artists if people want to hear the 1965 "Brian sound" in 2016, but Brian is 50 years older and his solo material is simply not along those lines, rather it's what he chooses to write and how he chooses his music to sound in the present day. It would be the same if someone who has only played two previous McCartney albums a few times reviews a newer solo McCartney album using his Beatles catalog as a reference point and expects to hear another "Hey Jude" or "We Can Work It Out", or someone buying then reviewing a newer Clapton solo release expects him to play and sound like he did on Fresh Cream, having only listened to 461 Ocean Boulevard or Layla from his solo catalog.


I wonder.. would you have gone through all this trouble if my review was positive? I mean, I know the answer, but still.

Same question. Cos I did try to distinguish between a pro review that claims authority, and all that jazz, and a message board review that's informative, honest and entertaining in the ethereal sense of message board posts and written purely from the standpoint of love for the artist. And we have to bear in mind that any album from any artist should stand up to being reviewed in isolation, on it's own merits, in the context of anyone's musical taste and experience. An LP/album isn't like a "Gore-Tex" jacket that has to shape up against others, it's a standalone work of art after all.

The conversations on the first few pages of this particular thread show a "love for the artist"? Show those pages to people totally unaware of anything related to this and ask if they can feel the love being shown through all the expletives and negativity.

Seriously John? If this was a sign of love, I'd hate to see the results if such a "review" were done for an artist that was hated. And if this is informative, I must have missed those sections because I didn't see info being offered that was anything new or useful to further analyze or interpret this album as the discussion unfolded.

Well, their comments informed my listening experience but given that they were throwaway comments on a message board only adds weight to my perception of their value.

As for the "love" element, ever read Congrieve's Way of the World? He premise is that the main character loves the object of his passions for [/]her faults, not despite them, and I get a sense of that for other posters in this thread too.

Now, I also tried to distinguish between the professional reviews and those that are out there for the love. Where is that line drawn? I dunno. I've had too much of this Dalwhinnie tonight and my line is blurred. Far as I'm aware these guys spoke about NPP from their hearts (aka "stated their current opinions") for no recompense. For the sheer pleasure of speaking openly. No obligations. And I admire that, really appreciate them putting their opinions and themselves out there,; gotta leave it here cos the phone's nearly dea



d.

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« Reply #191 on: May 13, 2016, 02:19:54 PM »

It's fun to rip apart an album publicly? So this was a parody, a put on instead of what they really feel? I'd like to know.

Rip apart? It is an opinion, stated in a fun and stylish way.  We don't have to agree with them.

Yep, chock full of fun and style, on par with a pair of steel-toed workboots and safety goggles.

OK. You're entitled to your opinion. I disagree with this and your insinuations about B & D.

Cam, what insinuations have I made about either one of them? Please give me an example and I'll address it. I originally asked "Dudd" a question about his change of mind since 2015, and he still hasn't replied, and the rest is just a rolling commentary and continuing discussion.

What insinuations have there been coming from me?

Are you not making insinuations against their intentions?
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« Reply #192 on: May 13, 2016, 02:20:01 PM »

Is THAT what this was about? Now it's more clear.

Yeah, sure, man. This thread is all about you. Glad you figured it out finally.


What on earth does being a good or bad moderator have to do with engaging in this conversation and discussion?

The fact you have to ask that question in light of you behavior just shows how you have no understanding of your role.

I'm off to go get the Hickeyscript up and running.
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« Reply #193 on: May 13, 2016, 02:25:41 PM »

It's fun to rip apart an album publicly? So this was a parody, a put on instead of what they really feel? I'd like to know.

Rip apart? It is an opinion, stated in a fun and stylish way.  We don't have to agree with them.

Yep, chock full of fun and style, on par with a pair of steel-toed workboots and safety goggles.

OK. You're entitled to your opinion. I disagree with this and your insinuations about B & D.

Cam, what insinuations have I made about either one of them? Please give me an example and I'll address it. I originally asked "Dudd" a question about his change of mind since 2015, and he still hasn't replied, and the rest is just a rolling commentary and continuing discussion.

What insinuations have there been coming from me?

Are you not making insinuations against their intentions?

I read a comment that tried to tell me the criticism on the first pages of this thread was coming from a place of love, and I replied that not only didn't I feel that love shining through, but I'd challenge anyone to let a person totally removed from any of these topics or issues read through the reviews and ask if they thought it was coming from a place of love. Or words to that effect.

If there are any takers, I'd like to see the results.

As far as making insinuations, point me to a comment where you think I did that Cam, and I'll address it.
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« Reply #194 on: May 13, 2016, 02:27:15 PM »

I'm not sure how, apparently incorrectly, referring to my least favorite track on NPP is some kind of slur against Brian, Melinda, Joe Thomas, etc.   I've been very complimentary of the album as a whole, bar two songs.  


A criticism of an album, or any aspect of the album (ie. a song, lyrics, a lead vocal, guitar lick, etc) does not always equal a criticism of the artist.  Anybody on here who had anything critical to say about NPP, including myself, bought the album, listened to it, and care about because we're fans of Brian Wilson.  


Seconded.

Actually I wasn't referring to anything that you had said. I was simply complimenting Guitar fool for trying to get the train back on the tracks by defining EDM. But now that it seems i may have touched a nerve. Let me point out the following  text from Wikipedia about  No Pier Pressure......." No Pier Pressure is the 11th studio album by Brian Wilson. released April 7 2015 on Capitol Records. Peaking at 28 on The US Billboard 200"    SO FAR ACCURATE...... Next is what I do not understand...."The album received mixed reviews which largely  criticized its adult contemporary arrangement , ( by whom outside this message board?)  production and auto tune directions which were allegedly at the behest of co producer Joe Thomas...."  ( also by whom outside this message board? )  Ive talked to a hundred people in Nashville about this record. Ive never heard any of those comments. And while Nashville doesn't define the world, Im sure that it is a pretty good representation of the musical cross section of america. So words from this board DO have quite an impact on Brian's legacy. This is Wikipedia!  When you say that these and  comments like this does not equal to  criticism of the artist , I would say , you  are incorrect. Im not at all sure who writes the bi lines in Wikipedia, but that certainly seems to me like criticism of the artist. It had to be influenced by the numerous claims on this board......The endless inferences that people are secretly auto tuning vocals came from THIS Message board!   Many of us  outsiders have read direct  quotes from the guest artists like Kacey  M that Brian stacked her vocals Numerous times. These quotes are in real magazines who tend to avoid sensationalist claims in fear of actually getting sued. Yet we don't seem to believe them!  Im not sure  how Brian's publicity team corrects this, but I would sure try....... . As for the mixed reviews, Wiki seems to select three reviews including this Pop Matters guy. Isn't it a little sad that when the world outside this message board reads about NPP, they read mostly slurs and accusations based on conjecture? Much of the Wiki page and much of the early days on this message board were driven by this auto tune b s. We gloss  past the fact that the album actually debuted at #28! Im guessing  pretty good for a guy in his 70's, the rest of the description is polluted by inferences from three reviewers who obviously have an anti guest collaborator  or co producer agenda. So I applaud folks like Guitar Fool for defining and pointing the arrow in the right direction, because I am sure that if the members of this post shut down some of those conspiracy theories, they would have never reached WIKI.  BTW  who  actually does write the Wiki page accounts? And Im all for  opinions  such as ......I don't like the way Brian's vocals are sounding these days, or I would have liked to see xyz as a collaborator, instead of Zooey instead of ........ it must be someone else's idea to put Sebu on the record because Brian would never choose to allow his songs to be produced that way if he had a choice!
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« Reply #195 on: May 13, 2016, 02:28:31 PM »

Damn Craig, the whole thing was done for fun. Lighten the f-up. I wish you'd act like this when all devolving threads concerning Mike, pop up. They weren't ripping Brian personally, it was just an irreverent review of the music. Like we are told in other threads; Don't like it? Don't read it.

Look, if one has an opinion about the music, no matter what it is, they should be prepared for any kind of feedback. Especially if they write something like:

Quote
the problem I have with most of this album is that most of the songs are just insincerely faking sincerity, but at least this one is sincerely insincere. It's just a fucking stupid pop song

This is a Beach Boys message board, and the most prominent member of that band is Brian Wilson. So I'm kinda perplexed that people are shocked that there would be negative feedback on a multi-post review of Brian Wilson's album that calls some of the music "turgid, worthless, safe bullcrap"...especially since Bubs made it clear that the opinions expressed were how they truly feel about the album. I am totally cool if people have differing opinions, and I have to say, at least Judd and Bubs descriptively laid out their case (unlike many "reviewers" who flocked to this site to give their one sentence "this album sucks" posts). But it should come to no surprise that people are offended by the opinions posted at the beginning of this thread.
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« Reply #196 on: May 13, 2016, 02:28:50 PM »

Is THAT what this was about? Now it's more clear.

Yeah, sure, man. This thread is all about you. Glad you figured it out finally.


What on earth does being a good or bad moderator have to do with engaging in this conversation and discussion?

The fact you have to ask that question in light of you behavior just shows how you have no understanding of your role.

I'm off to go get the Hickeyscript up and running.

No understanding of my role? I know my role: I'm an old, washed up Vaudeville hoofer on his last set of legs and almost plum out of jokes. But I love working the crowds.

Role as a mod you mean? Oh, that one again. What does that have to do with engaging in this conversation and discussion?
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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
Cam Mott
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« Reply #197 on: May 13, 2016, 02:33:11 PM »

It's fun to rip apart an album publicly? So this was a parody, a put on instead of what they really feel? I'd like to know.

Rip apart? It is an opinion, stated in a fun and stylish way.  We don't have to agree with them.

Yep, chock full of fun and style, on par with a pair of steel-toed workboots and safety goggles.

OK. You're entitled to your opinion. I disagree with this and your insinuations about B & D.

Cam, what insinuations have I made about either one of them? Please give me an example and I'll address it. I originally asked "Dudd" a question about his change of mind since 2015, and he still hasn't replied, and the rest is just a rolling commentary and continuing discussion.

What insinuations have there been coming from me?

Are you not making insinuations against their intentions?

I read a comment that tried to tell me the criticism on the first pages of this thread was coming from a place of love, and I replied that not only didn't I feel that love shining through, but I'd challenge anyone to let a person totally removed from any of these topics or issues read through the reviews and ask if they thought it was coming from a place of love. Or words to that effect.

If there are any takers, I'd like to see the results.

As far as making insinuations, point me to a comment where you think I did that Cam, and I'll address it.

You answered your question in your reply imo.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 02:44:04 PM by Cam Mott » Logged

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« Reply #198 on: May 13, 2016, 02:41:25 PM »

It's fun to rip apart an album publicly? So this was a parody, a put on instead of what they really feel? I'd like to know.

Rip apart? It is an opinion, stated in a fun and stylish way.  We don't have to agree with them.

You answered your question in your reply imo.

Yep, chock full of fun and style, on par with a pair of steel-toed workboots and safety goggles.

OK. You're entitled to your opinion. I disagree with this and your insinuations about B & D.

Cam, what insinuations have I made about either one of them? Please give me an example and I'll address it. I originally asked "Dudd" a question about his change of mind since 2015, and he still hasn't replied, and the rest is just a rolling commentary and continuing discussion.

What insinuations have there been coming from me?

Are you not making insinuations against their intentions?

I read a comment that tried to tell me the criticism on the first pages of this thread was coming from a place of love, and I replied that not only didn't I feel that love shining through, but I'd challenge anyone to let a person totally removed from any of these topics or issues read through the reviews and ask if they thought it was coming from a place of love. Or words to that effect.

If there are any takers, I'd like to see the results.

As far as making insinuations, point me to a comment where you think I did that Cam, and I'll address it.


I saw your reply buried in there somewhere, Cam.

I'm seeing several pages of two guys ripping an album apart, then Dr Beach Boy tells me to lighten up, it's fun and irreverent, to which one of the reviewers said it's their true feelings about the album. To which I still ask and reply, which is it then? Dr Beach Boy must have misspoke or had an incorrect feel for their intentions - Because any number of readers could point out a few selected lines from the "review" and not see the love shining through, nor see the fun in writing or reading...but if it was irreverence by design, the writers say it is not, it is an accurate expression of how they feel.

So who is insinuating what, exactly, Cam?

I just saw the insinuation in the review that the writers say the sincerity of selected lyrics was faked, so either they know something only the songwriters know about real versus phony sincerity at play as the song was written, or they're insinuating to the point of claiming "fake" sincerity in the lyrics.

Lot of mixed messages to sort through.
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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
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« Reply #199 on: May 13, 2016, 02:42:56 PM »

"The album received mixed reviews which largely  criticized its adult contemporary arrangement , ( by whom outside this message board?)

If you would like to read the reviews for this album, you can find two different aggregates here and here. Be forewarned: the majority of reviews are scary and wrong, in that they are mostly middling and negative. Grab the pitchforks and torches, boys, we're gonna teach them a lesson.
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