Would Guess I’m Dumb have been a BB song if Glen had stayed in the band?

[CenturyDeprived]

If Glen had accepted the offer of replacing Brian in a permanent, or semi-permanent basis, I suppose it's a no-brainer that Bruce would never have become a BB.

I'm wondering: was the song Guess I'm Done written from the ground up as a vehicle for Glen as a solo artist? Or is it fair to surmise the possibility that Glen might have been given lead vocal duties on the same song, but with the song being released as a BB tune with a few more BB harmonies (along with what's currently on the recording with Brian and the Honeys)?

Or was Glen's singing voice too different from the familiar BBs sound, and thus he might not have been given lead vocal duties on a studio recording at that point in time? It took a few more years, into the early 70s, before singers like Blondie and Jack came along to interject a very different lead vocal sound into the BB sphere.

I could also see Glen being the new kid on the block and not necessarily being given a lead vocal for only the reason of being a brand new member (after all, it took a few years before Bruce got leads).

And on the other hand, I also ponder the possibility that Guess I'm Dumb might have been released as a BB song with a non-Glen (likely Brian) lead.

[You Kane, You Commanded, You Conquered]

A few songs ostensibly written for The Beach Boys like Caroline No, Lady, Gettin Hungry, ended up being released as solo artist singles, I'd imagine it would be the case for Guess I'm Dumb regardless of whether Glenn became a permanent fixture in the band.

[Lonely Summer]

I can't imagine Glen becoming a permanent member, he was older than the guys, and besides, if he had been a BB for many years, we would have been denied Gentle On My Mind, Wichita Lineman, By the Time I Get to Phoenix, Galveston and all those great songs.

[CenturyDeprived]

I can't imagine Glen becoming a permanent member, he was older than the guys, and besides, if he had been a BB for many years, we would have been denied Gentle On My Mind, Wichita Lineman, By the Time I Get to Phoenix, Galveston and all those great songs.

Well, he was offered the role of a permanent member, so even though he had larger solo ambitions that led to him declining the offer, it's not so unimaginable for it to have actually happened. Older than the other guys or not, the offer was on the table, so it's not some farfetched scenario.

But yeah, things obviously worked out for him for the the best that he declined.

[Aum Bop Diddit]

I can't imagine Glen becoming a permanent member, he was older than the guys, and besides, if he had been a BB for many years, we would have been denied Gentle On My Mind, Wichita Lineman, By the Time I Get to Phoenix, Galveston and all those great songs.

Well, he was offered the role of a permanent member, so even though he had larger solo ambitions that led to him declining the offer, it's not so unimaginable for it to have actually happened. Older than the other guys or not, the offer was on the table, so it's not some farfetched scenario.

But yeah, things obviously worked out for him for the the best that he declined.

I think Glen was far too ambitious for a scenario where he was the 5th wheel.  Or 6th.

[Moon Dawg]

   "Guess I'm Dumb" is the 12th and final track on my custom version of The Beach Boys Today. But I can't imagine Glen becoming a permanent member in light of his subsequent superstardom.

  "Wichita Lineman" is one of the best singles of all-time.

[Lonely Summer]

   "Guess I'm Dumb" is the 12th and final track on my custom version of The Beach Boys Today. But I can't imagine Glen becoming a permanent member in light of his subsequent superstardom.

  "Wichita Lineman" is one of the best singles of all-time.

Amen. Glen had a run of hits in the late 70's that any artist would love to have. Great songwriting, great arranging, great singing and playing. Did the Beach Boys ever guest on the Goodtime Hour? it seems like everyone else was on there, but I can't recall ever seeing any BB footage from the show.

[ThyRavenAscend]

While we're on the subject, do we know for sure that Brian never recorded a lead vocal on this tune?  I would pay big $$$ to hear that.

[Eric Aniversario]

While we're on the subject, do we know for sure that Brian never recorded a lead vocal on this tune?  I would pay big $$$ to hear that.

Interestingly enough, I was wondering the same thing today, without having read this thread. The leadless version on MiC was stuck in my head while on a hike today.

[Matt Bielewicz]

I really can't remember for sure, but I thought it had been pretty comprehensively researched, and the conclusion is that none of the surviving multitrack tapes have a Brian lead on them.

Now, of course, that doesn't mean that Brian didn't record one. He might have done, as a demo to show Glen how the song was supposed to go. But if he did, it would seem that it hasn't survived.

There is, of course, still a way in which the suggested 'Brian lead' might have survived (if it ever existed at all). If he recorded it to the multitrack tape, then did a mixdown from that tape, and that mixdown survived, that would preserve his lead even if his voice was subsequently erased from the multitrack. That, of course, is how we have some vocals preserved for some songs that aren't still on the source multitrack tapes today (see: Dennis's vocal on The Old Master Painter, those extra overdubs on the chorus of Child Is Father Of The Man that were only on one acetate and made it from there onto the SMiLE Sessions box set that no-one had ever heard before then... Mike's 'when skies are grey' vocals on the False Barnyard tag... etc etc).

But - and I can't stress this enough - that's only how such a lead might have survived, IF IT EVER EXISTED. I don't know of any evidence that such a lead existed, much less that it survived via a mixdown if it did.

Brian might have just recorded the backing track and backing vocals and then sung live at Glen in the studio before the session to show him how the melody was supposed to go. Still, I agree that it is odd that he did the whole backing track for Glen, went to the bother of recording the BVs, but didn't demo the lead for Glen as well...

I wouldn't be utterly amazed if it was one day revealed that there *was* a surviving acetate with a BW demo vocal, and that it had been securely in the hands of some mega-collector for decades, and that that was the source of all the rumours that there was once a BW lead on the track. There is, of course, also the seriously unattractive intermediate possibiilty — that Brian DID record a demo vocal to show Glen how to sing it, but it was never mixed down to anything, and then when Glen recorded his lead, he did so OVER Brian's lead on the tape, rendering it lost for ever. Or there might even be another possiblity — that there WAS an mixdown, an acetate or something, made before Glen wiped Brian (so to speak) but it was thrown away or has been otherwise lost since it was made. These are all possibilities, but there's no evidence that I know of that any of them are what actually happened.

On the other hand, people would so like there to be a record of 1964 Brian singing this very personal song, that it could just be wishful thinking that has become rumour that has become 'accepted fact'... without there actually being a shred of truth in any of it...!

[jiggy22]

Thank you so much for the great insight!

On another note, does anyone know if Glen ever performed the song live, aside from a lip-synced tv performance?

[SMiLE Brian]

Not sure if he did, but the song sounds like a BW non-BBs production. I think sherry she needs me was the other song offered to glen.

[ash]

While we're on the subject, do we know for sure that Brian never recorded a lead vocal on this tune?  I would pay big $$$ to hear that.

I'll chip in ! Would love to hear Brian singing it. Probably long gone though

[Smilin Ed H]

I love Guess I'm Dumb and I love Glen's voice. I think the song is one of the best things he did, but like the poster above, I would hate to have been denied Galveston, Wichita Lineman and The Moon's a Harsh Mistress, to name but three. Anyone get that late album of Glen's that reimagines some of his finest songs. Hege messy misfire, What a mess they make of Glaveston. Now, if you dig out Glen and The Stone Temple Pilots doing Wichita Lineman... that's the real deal. I saw him on his last tour and blubbed my way through most of the second half.