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Author Topic: Lifetime ban on AGD  (Read 273967 times)
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rab2591
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« Reply #500 on: April 29, 2016, 04:48:34 AM »

Something that I think needs to be addressed is that Guitarfool came under a lot of scrutiny after the Mikie and Runnersdialzero bans. I think the consensus among many vocal posters was that these two posters were unfairly banned by Guitarfool (that he was the driving force behind those bans).

Subsequently he became a target for a lot of potshots, he was constantly backed into corners by some posters, and thus I think Guitarfool became rightfully defensive. He was called out on Beach Boys Britain by Andrew G Doe for being "too thin skinned, not even close to impartial", pursuing "vendettas at brain-numbing length and "not above trying to disrupt a thread by introducing irrelevant points". Keep in mind these points were made after he was unfairly vilified for supposedly banning Runners/Mikie on his own volition. Guitarfool then reopened a locked thread to defend that specific charge made by Andrew, and he was further vilified for doing that (thus, upon one or two other similar instances, I think people attempt to make the case that he abuses his power).

I think many bans that have occurred here recently are much like the one regarding this very thread: the specific reasons have been kept mostly secretive. This leaves room for a lot of speculation about the nature of the bans. That in mind, it has been made crystal clear that ALL bans are made by collective decision among the mods. Also keep in mind that months ago Billy made it clear that there was no one he saw on the permanent ban list that he wanted back on this forum. I'm not sure what Runnersdialzero did to deserve a ban - and I honestly miss the guy. He would more than always make me laugh a lot. That being said, I have the utmost respect for the decisions that Billy, Guitarfool, and Smile Holland made, and trust their judgement.

I'm also not specifically sure what Mikie did to get banned. I conversed with him on occasion, and we PM'd from time to time. I never had a run-in that I remember with the guy. That being said, I found it disgusting when I saw Debbie KL get harassed in nearly every thread she went to by Mikie and Mike's Beard. I'm sure whatever Mikie got banned for it was enough for Billy to cut the cord. And given the years of great service that Billy has given this board, I think we all need to respect his integrity regarding these decisions.

This has been a crazy four+ years of Beach Boys fandom - the Smile Sessions came out, Beach Boys reunion occurred (tour and album), some three solo albums were released by Brian, many statements were made by Mike that resulted in controversy, the C50 breakup, etc etc. SO much has gone on here that has created a lot of turmoil on this forum. We're all passionate about this band, many of us do have a favorite side (even if some don't want to admit it), and that creates a breeding ground for ban-able offenses.

Anyways, my point is that the correlation between all that has gone on in the Beach Boys world and an active mod newly joining the ranks cannot be overlooked. Is Guitarfool a perfect mod? I don't think anyone can be a perfect mod. But given the atmosphere of this fandom (and the personalities that we interact with daily here) I think that Smile Holland, Guitarfool, Lowbacca, and Billy have tried to handle each and every dicey situation the best that they can.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2016, 04:49:36 AM by rab2591 » Logged

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« Reply #501 on: April 29, 2016, 05:28:16 AM »

If lots of users (even on different music forums) repeatedly express having issues with a certain mod, is that not a red flag? Is there no appropriate course of action? Here's an idea: try using someone else. See if the complaints continue. Maybe ask the people of the board who they would like to lead them. Yeah, it's a long shot: I doubt Guitarfool will give up his position of power in a gesture of humility, but the fact that nothing comes of all of the vocal complaining is confusing to say the least.

Guitarfool is a superb Moderator. The Board is lucky to have him!

Craig is the best thing to ever happen to this board because there has been a ton of toxicity that has been perpetrated by a certain circle that is now being dealt with. Anybody who has a problem with Craig, or any of the mods and how they do their job should leave instead of obsessing over a decision that is likely not going to reversed.
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« Reply #502 on: April 29, 2016, 05:43:13 AM »

I think this thread is a terrible place to discuss Guitarfool's tenure as a moderator, as it is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. However, I think we should discuss Guitarfool's tenure as moderator elsewhere.
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« Reply #503 on: April 29, 2016, 05:49:30 AM »

If lots of users (even on different music forums) repeatedly express having issues with a certain mod, is that not a red flag? Is there no appropriate course of action? Here's an idea: try using someone else. See if the complaints continue. Maybe ask the people of the board who they would like to lead them. Yeah, it's a long shot: I doubt Guitarfool will give up his position of power in a gesture of humility, but the fact that nothing comes of all of the vocal complaining is confusing to say the least.

Guitarfool is a superb Moderator. The Board is lucky to have him!

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« Reply #504 on: April 29, 2016, 07:19:50 AM »

Quote
Now look who is doing the calling out here. First off, I never mentioned you publicly on the Hoffman board. I was the one who asked people there not to discuss the AGD stuff over there. I knew that the thread would be closed straight away. Not fair to to the OP who's thread had nothing to do with the AGD situation here

That is indeed true. Although I could not post there, I did lurk and read the thread, and you did indeed say it was a bad idea to discuss it.

Quote
It puts anyone who questions what you write, in jeopardy. Some people feel as though they have to tread lightly with you on everything
 

That, however, should not be the case. As I said in my own post above, if that were true, wouldn't GF ban anyone who disagrees with him? Wouldn't you have gotten banned for your responses to him? That has not happened, because that is not how he or any of us operate.


And again, the reason why this thread was reopened was summed up by what I said, and what 18th just posted too. The discussion is going to happen whether we want it to or not (and I quite frankly am sick to death of it). Better here than in other threads, or indeed elsewhere online if possible. I mean, what if someone vents on another board because they feel they can't do it here, and in the process gets his or herself banned there on account of it? That'd be jacked up, but it's possible.
Billy, Craig wrote a damn treatise above my reply. To take that long to read it, I had to reply.

As for this thread alone, if people just wanted to express whether they agree with it or not, that is one thing, but allowing for all of the speculation and all, when the banned cannot defend themselves is not fair. That was all I was getting at. Sad that it is becoming a board civil war in here.
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« Reply #505 on: April 29, 2016, 07:23:31 AM »

but allowing for all of the speculation and all, when the banned cannot defend themselves is not fair. That was all I was getting at. Sad that it is becoming a board civil war in here.

I am claiming the movie rights.

If the banned have anything to say, they can send an email, and the moderators can decide if it can or should be published here.  Mikie has already contacted me recently by email, and I'd be glad to check with him to see if he would like to be represented here by his comments to me.
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« Reply #506 on: April 29, 2016, 07:27:29 AM »

Guitarfool is a superb Moderator. The Board is lucky to have him!
Affirmative. Those people at the Hoffman had no right discussing anything related to other (read: this) board, in public. It's really bizarre that they would question the moderation of Smiley Smile forum - what do they care? They're happy posting there then deal with it. It's even worse to single out guitarfool when he repeatedly explained that every decision is made by 3 mods. I'd assume the posters over there imagine things where they aren't. It's understandable that GF would like to stand for and defend himself. Who would like to find out people actually had been saying sth. unflattering and untrue about them at different place(s)? It's not cool.
There are many here that post at both places. There are many people at Hoffman who lurk here. When anything big happens here, folks post it at Hoffman straight away. I agree with you, Hoffman threads should not be hijacked to discuss the business going on in here. AGD is known very well there, so what happened here was big news.
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The Brianista Prayer

Oh Brian
Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
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« Reply #507 on: April 29, 2016, 07:30:59 AM »

but allowing for all of the speculation and all, when the banned cannot defend themselves is not fair. That was all I was getting at. Sad that it is becoming a board civil war in here.

I am claiming the movie rights.

If the banned have anything to say, they can send an email, and the moderators can decide if it can or should be published here.  Mikie has already contacted me recently by email, and I'd be glad to check with him to see if he would like to be represented here by his comments to me.
That's cool.
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The Brianista Prayer

Oh Brian
Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
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« Reply #508 on: April 29, 2016, 08:19:22 AM »

One bummer here is that Billy and company are kind of being raked over the coals a bit for actually having an open discussion about this. The more open to discussion they allow things to get, the more they get kicked in the nuts for doing it. 

How many people here are a regular member/viewer/poster at another message board with as much (or more) traffic compared to Smiley Smile?

I ask this because I don't think I've ever been on another board that *is* moderated that *also* allows for an open discussion and offers explanations as to a banning and other internal message board administrative stuff. A lot of other boards are either crazy-as-f**k free-for-alls, more resembling the Wild West days of Usenet newsgroups, or they are tightly moderated and if you say Brian wore a shirt you don't like, you get banned for life. Or, as with something like the BB Britain board, it's just kind of dead unless someone wants to ask Bruce what his favorite beers and surfing spots are.

I'm going to try my best to help keep this board a great place. Seriously, I don't want to be left with, what? Facebook? Unless I want to see 500 "Yeah, awesome!" user comments under the latest picture of Brian eating his lunch in his hotel room or Mike's latest vacation, Facebook isn't a place to actually discuss and dive deep into the band's history and music.

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« Reply #509 on: April 29, 2016, 08:23:46 AM »

One bummer here is that Billy and company are kind of being raked over the coals a bit for actually having an open discussion about this. The more open to discussion they allow things to get, the more they get kicked in the nuts for doing it. 


I'm going to try my best to help keep this board a great place. Seriously, I don't want to be left with, what? Facebook? Unless I want to see 500 "Yeah, awesome!" user comments under the latest picture of Brian eating his lunch in his hotel room or Mike's latest vacation, Facebook isn't a place to actually discuss and dive deep into the band's history and music.

Leaving out the part about other message boards, due to my lack of experience, I firmly agree with both points above.
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« Reply #510 on: April 29, 2016, 08:32:50 AM »

One bummer here is that Billy and company are kind of being raked over the coals a bit for actually having an open discussion about this. The more open to discussion they allow things to get, the more they get kicked in the nuts for doing it. 

Billy and company deserve a world's worth of riches for the work they do here.  That's not to say anyone is perfect, but they come as close to perfect as a group of people can. 

I ask this because I don't think I've ever been on another board that *is* moderated that *also* allows for an open discussion and offers explanations as to a banning and other internal message board administrative stuff. A lot of other boards are either crazy-as-f**k free-for-alls, more resembling the Wild West days of Usenet newsgroups, or they are tightly moderated and if you say Brian wore a shirt you don't like, you get banned for life. Or, as with something like the BB Britain board, it's just kind of dead unless someone wants to ask Bruce what his favorite beers and surfing spots are.

When I chose to create this board from the ashes of the Smile Shoppe board in 2004, I did it because I believed this community should not be abandoned or reset because of issues created by a minority of members.  I believe this is still true. 

I also did it because I don't think any one member is more valuable than another, even if they are published authors, or if they have experiences most of us can't because we don't live in California.   That means, for instance, that someone like Mikie doesn't get to spread lies about board members or harass board members, even though he has interesting anecdotes to share.


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« Reply #511 on: April 29, 2016, 08:37:24 AM »

One bummer here is that Billy and company are kind of being raked over the coals a bit for actually having an open discussion about this. The more open to discussion they allow things to get, the more they get kicked in the nuts for doing it. 

They never should have started the thread to begin with.
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« Reply #512 on: April 29, 2016, 08:47:30 AM »

One bummer here is that Billy and company are kind of being raked over the coals a bit for actually having an open discussion about this. The more open to discussion they allow things to get, the more they get kicked in the nuts for doing it. 

They never should have started the thread to begin with.

I disagree.  The lies and rumors were happening and would have happened whether they were silent about the situation or not.  The best course of action was to field the arguments, complaints, and questions, and to respond to them.
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« Reply #513 on: April 29, 2016, 09:26:10 AM »

runnersdialzero is banned? Now that's bad news.
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« Reply #514 on: April 29, 2016, 09:27:17 AM »

One bummer here is that Billy and company are kind of being raked over the coals a bit for actually having an open discussion about this. The more open to discussion they allow things to get, the more they get kicked in the nuts for doing it. 

They never should have started the thread to begin with.

I disagree.  The lies and rumors were happening and would have happened whether they were silent about the situation or not.  The best course of action was to field the arguments, complaints, and questions, and to respond to them.

I agree with your disagreement.  Do you think if something happened like this on the Hoffman board the moderators would allow this kind of open discussion?  It would be deleted and closed and never appear again on the board.  I feel this kind of discussion is cathartic by letting people vent about what they don't like about how the board is run and openly air complaints and concerns.  I think it's good for the moderators to hear these concerns and take them under advisement to perhaps do a better job of moderating and better communicate how and why they do what they do to the board members.

That said, at some point everyone is fixed in their opinions and no additional explanations or reasoning is going to convince anyone to change those opinions - I think we may be at that point.
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« Reply #515 on: April 29, 2016, 09:31:24 AM »

And may I add that moderating is a thankless job - no one notices when it's done well , but everyone focusses on the few times they feel it is done incorrectly or poorly?  My job is like that so I can relate.
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« Reply #516 on: April 29, 2016, 09:40:54 AM »

Guitarfool is a superb Moderator. The Board is lucky to have him!

Yes, he's also apparently a SUPER MODERATOR! Ooh, good for him.


Anybody who has a problem with Craig, or any of the mods and how they do their job should leave instead of obsessing over a decision that is likely not going to reversed.

Yeah, I'll consider it.
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« Reply #517 on: April 29, 2016, 09:51:59 AM »

I emailed Mikie twice to give him an opportunity to send me a statement to post here regarding his banning.  He advised he did not have enough information regarding his banning to make a public statement.  He also advised he felt I was refusing to provide evidence to him to justify his banning.  For the record, I did not refuse, I simply did not answer his questions, as they have already been answered previously by the moderators.

He also made it clear that public messages from this thread are being relayed to him, which, of course, is perfectly fine.
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« Reply #518 on: April 29, 2016, 10:06:58 AM »

One bummer here is that Billy and company are kind of being raked over the coals a bit for actually having an open discussion about this. The more open to discussion they allow things to get, the more they get kicked in the nuts for doing it. 

They never should have started the thread to begin with.

A quiet ban of AGD was never going to be possible because he has been so prominent in the fan community for almost 40 years. His absence was always going to be noted therefore you can't really treat his banning like you would with other bans. As ugly as this has been, I think the mods were painted in a corner and had no other option.
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« Reply #519 on: April 29, 2016, 11:40:27 AM »

Wait a sec... Runnerz is banned? Sheesh. What is going on here?
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« Reply #520 on: April 29, 2016, 11:44:46 AM »

Wait a sec... Runnerz is banned?

Yeah, good luck figuring that one out.
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« Reply #521 on: April 29, 2016, 12:33:04 PM »

This thread will go on and on, nobody is going to admit to any wrong doing. It's futile.
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« Reply #522 on: April 29, 2016, 12:40:42 PM »

Wait a sec... Runnerz is banned? Sheesh. What is going on here?

That was last year, where ya been? The Mods don't make a ban into a public execution. Seems like that's what some want in this case.

I think Bean Bag is gone. Rocky seems to be missing (no surprise there).
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« Reply #523 on: April 29, 2016, 12:46:27 PM »

I think Bean Bag is gone. Rocky seems to be missing (no surprise there).

Man, I miss Bean Bag, now that you mention him. Can't say I miss Schlocky.
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« Reply #524 on: April 29, 2016, 01:38:58 PM »

Some of these bans are news to me.  Add 'em to Alan's signature list, or start your own I guess...  Me and john k were discussing what's what when someone just disappears around here in the oops thread.  So, getting some answers.  They ain't all just dying.

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