Lifetime ban on AGD

[RangeRoverA1]

I agree with guitarfool (Post No. 269) And Mr. Dempsey, instead of leaving you could improve this place by posting what you know. Seems like Mr. Doe is mother who left the house and everybody is kids who can't take responsibility on their shoulders. C'mon, folks.

[Smilin Ed H]

Hmmm. Just occurred to me that at least one of those people who received one of THE emails has a habit of sending his/her own to people he disagrees with. No nasty gossip, just a desperate attempt to be smart-mouthed. Like I said earlier, I just presumed the guy is a dick and let it be

[Shady]

This is sad to hear.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Hmmm. Just occurred to me that at least one of those people who received one of THE emails has a habit of sending his/her own to people he disagrees with. No nasty gossip, just a desperate attempt to be smart-mouthed. Like I said earlier, I just presumed the guy is a dick and let it be

If you don't mind me asking, how bad? If it's out of hand, let's talk about this privately.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I agree with guitarfool (Post No. 269) And Mr. Dempsey, instead of leaving you could improve this place by posting what you know. Seems like Mr. Doe is mother who left the house and everybody is kids who can't take responsibility on their shoulders. C'mon, folks.

I agree. Let's make this a better place...by making this a better place.

[drbeachboy]

Billy, the biggest issue is that we are all here for different reasons. Some are here to learn and some are here to gossip. If the scholars and historians leave, then we ain't gonna be doin' much learin'. If what AGD did is considered bad, just wait until the gossipers are ruling the board.

Have the explanations given in detail by both Billy and Charles not been enough? One of the issues has been that the gossip and gossipers were in fact ruling the board and doing so in a way that would be hidden unless someone reported what they received. How does the line blur between history and scholarship and veer off into negative comments about personal lives and marriage, and that is just what has been reported publicly in this thread. Is there a justification for challenging things like marriage and family related to the band, or for spreading gossip about other board members' personal lives if the goal is or was history and scholarship?

Look, you and I will never agree on anything. I just find it amazing that the folks who have the most public issues with AGD are the ones who received these PM's. I find it quite strange that he wouldn't have shared those findings with the people who are backing him now and also received PM's that did not include said gossip. Since nothing has been shared, I will not state that it did not happen, because I only know what has been stated here, but I have my doubts based on my own dealings with him. I also know about the public stuff that goes on here where nary a word is said about it. This place teeters on libel constantly. Hell, when this first popped up on the board, you were the first person who came to mind. I figured you dug up the dirt to get him banned. It is no secret that you two had your issues. Honestly, I'd like to know just how old these PM's are.

Again, you do not read what has been described and detailed and instead take shots at me. Since you don't know what was or wasn't involved, why do you continue to make assumptions and post things you have no clue about?

There were PM's reported in the past year that involved board members who were new sign-ups, relatively new members, and members who had no personal issues or disputes to speak of. And in at least one case that was reported, a board member who received one of the PM's felt uncomfortable enough to leave and no longer participate because of it. There were also PM's that got into personal issues involving other board members - NOT public figures or band associates - which had no place on this or any other fan forum.

Those are the facts.

No pot shots being taken, it is an honest assessment of how I feel about you. You come off as a know it all and act like a dictator as a Mod. We can take this to email if you want. I will not use the PM function in this place.

Your assessment posted publicly about how everything unfolded was completely wrong in this case, and if there are any doubts then consider that what was said in the comment I'm quoting here is exactly, 100% true as written. And consider that before posting comments that are simply not accurate or true, no matter how strongly you believe them.

Just so I am straight on this; you are telling me that if AGD had zero or only one strike against him, then he would have received a finite ban, instead of a lifetime ban?

No, they both would've gotten lifetimes.

And it's hard for me *not* to take it personally; I feel like I'm being attacked, and that I could walk on water right this minute and still get crap. I'm this close to saying the hell with this board.

For the record, I approached GF and lowbacca about this, and after the 3 of us talking, I approached Chuck for a second opinion. We were all in agreement, but I had done the initial groundwork. So now that *that* is out there...everybody still feel the same way?

I did no such thing. I had no idea how it all went down until Billy just explained it. But you know how one thinks in their head when they first read something that is shocking? Well, when Chuck posted the ban, the first person who popped in my head was you. Sorry, to think like that, but seeing all of the things that have gone on in this place since you became a Mod, convinced me that you might do something like that. Maybe I have you pegged all wrong, and honestly I hope I am completely wrong,  but that is how you come off when I read what you post.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Then that was my failing.  I should've been clearer initially

[guitarfool2002]

Billy, the biggest issue is that we are all here for different reasons. Some are here to learn and some are here to gossip. If the scholars and historians leave, then we ain't gonna be doin' much learin'. If what AGD did is considered bad, just wait until the gossipers are ruling the board.

Have the explanations given in detail by both Billy and Charles not been enough? One of the issues has been that the gossip and gossipers were in fact ruling the board and doing so in a way that would be hidden unless someone reported what they received. How does the line blur between history and scholarship and veer off into negative comments about personal lives and marriage, and that is just what has been reported publicly in this thread. Is there a justification for challenging things like marriage and family related to the band, or for spreading gossip about other board members' personal lives if the goal is or was history and scholarship?

Look, you and I will never agree on anything. I just find it amazing that the folks who have the most public issues with AGD are the ones who received these PM's. I find it quite strange that he wouldn't have shared those findings with the people who are backing him now and also received PM's that did not include said gossip. Since nothing has been shared, I will not state that it did not happen, because I only know what has been stated here, but I have my doubts based on my own dealings with him. I also know about the public stuff that goes on here where nary a word is said about it. This place teeters on libel constantly. Hell, when this first popped up on the board, you were the first person who came to mind. I figured you dug up the dirt to get him banned. It is no secret that you two had your issues. Honestly, I'd like to know just how old these PM's are.

Again, you do not read what has been described and detailed and instead take shots at me. Since you don't know what was or wasn't involved, why do you continue to make assumptions and post things you have no clue about?

There were PM's reported in the past year that involved board members who were new sign-ups, relatively new members, and members who had no personal issues or disputes to speak of. And in at least one case that was reported, a board member who received one of the PM's felt uncomfortable enough to leave and no longer participate because of it. There were also PM's that got into personal issues involving other board members - NOT public figures or band associates - which had no place on this or any other fan forum.

Those are the facts.

No pot shots being taken, it is an honest assessment of how I feel about you. You come off as a know it all and act like a dictator as a Mod. We can take this to email if you want. I will not use the PM function in this place.

Your assessment posted publicly about how everything unfolded was completely wrong in this case, and if there are any doubts then consider that what was said in the comment I'm quoting here is exactly, 100% true as written. And consider that before posting comments that are simply not accurate or true, no matter how strongly you believe them.

Just so I am straight on this; you are telling me that if AGD had zero or only one strike against him, then he would have received a finite ban, instead of a lifetime ban?

No, they both would've gotten lifetimes.

And it's hard for me *not* to take it personally; I feel like I'm being attacked, and that I could walk on water right this minute and still get crap. I'm this close to saying the hell with this board.

For the record, I approached GF and lowbacca about this, and after the 3 of us talking, I approached Chuck for a second opinion. We were all in agreement, but I had done the initial groundwork. So now that *that* is out there...everybody still feel the same way?

I did no such thing. I had no idea how it all went down until Billy just explained it. But you know how one thinks in their head when they first read something that is shocking? Well, when Chuck posted the ban, the first person who popped in my head was you. Sorry, to think like that, but seeing all of the things that have gone on in this place since you became a Mod, convinced me that you might do something like that. Maybe I have you pegged all wrong, and honestly I hope I am completely wrong,  but that is how you come off when I read what you post.

Billy explained it in the post yesterday, yet you still went public with your comments and cast doubt on my actions. If I said you were completely wrong, and that your 'dictator' comment can be disproven by simply asking another mod about it instead of making assertions against me that are as strong as that one, would it make a difference?

This is how lies and spreading info which is untrue about people - no matter who they are, public or private - can affect them personally. If I'm the dictator here that apparently some have been saying I am, ask the other mods for proof of it. If there is no proof, then consider the sources of those lies.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Every decision made is made with the full support of each of us mods. That's been the way it works since the board's inception. The faces may have changed, but we don't make major decisions on the fly like that. Also, none of us is going to just do something for the hell of it against the others' wishes. We are a team.

[drbeachboy]

Let me tell you something, I can think any way I like. It is how I see you. I never said anyone else does and I also stated that I hope I am wrong in my assessment. We talked (PM'd) about this in the past about how you come off when I read your posts. This should come as no surprise. I just haven't seen any change. The dictator comment is an overall assessment, not just this one thing. At first I just thought you were feeling your way around being a Mod, and maybe you still are. I would have taken this to email and did this privately, but you decided to respond back to me in here.

[guitarfool2002]

Let me tell you something, I can think any way I like. It is how I see you. I never said anyone else does and I also stated that I hope I am wrong in my assessment. We talked (PM'd) about this in the past about how you come off when I read your posts. This should come as no surprise. I just haven't seen any change. The dictator comment is an overall assessment, not just this one thing. At first I just thought you were feeling your way around being a Mod, and maybe you still are. I would have taken this to email and did this privately, but you decided to respond back to me in here.

No, you should not post something about me or anyone based on lies or misinformation because it's your right to think that way. In this case, a fellow mod just explained it yet again, which means whatever you're thinking and then posting is simply not the way things are, nor were they ever that way. It's simply not the truth. There are no dictators, there are no rogue moderators who make decisions and do things on their own. That is the truth.

[Smilin Ed H]

Hmmm. Just occurred to me that at least one of those people who received one of THE emails has a habit of sending his/her own to people he disagrees with. No nasty gossip, just a desperate attempt to be smart-mouthed. Like I said earlier, I just presumed the guy is a dick and let it be

If you don't mind me asking, how bad? If it's out of hand, let's talk about this privately.

No, not out of hand. Had it been, I would've contacted you. I just ignored it.

Oh, and that should have come with a thanks, Billy. I appreciate it.

[drbeachboy]

Then that was my failing.  I should've been clearer initially

Billy, I thought a lot of the Melinda talk was happening during and right after C50. That was over 3 plus years ago. I am amazed that after all of the discussions that happened then, and with of the postings by Ray that that line of questioning would have died a long time ago. This was why I was asking for the age of the PM's. It is hard to fathom that this talk has still been going on recently.

[drbeachboy]

Let me tell you something, I can think any way I like. It is how I see you. I never said anyone else does and I also stated that I hope I am wrong in my assessment. We talked (PM'd) about this in the past about how you come off when I read your posts. This should come as no surprise. I just haven't seen any change. The dictator comment is an overall assessment, not just this one thing. At first I just thought you were feeling your way around being a Mod, and maybe you still are. I would have taken this to email and did this privately, but you decided to respond back to me in here.

No, you should not post something about me or anyone based on lies or misinformation because it's your right to think that way. In this case, a fellow mod just explained it yet again, which means whatever you're thinking and then posting is simply not the way things are, nor were they ever that way. It's simply not the truth. There are no dictators, there are no rogue moderators who make decisions and do things on their own. That is the truth.

Hey, then ban me.

[guitarfool2002]

Let me tell you something, I can think any way I like. It is how I see you. I never said anyone else does and I also stated that I hope I am wrong in my assessment. We talked (PM'd) about this in the past about how you come off when I read your posts. This should come as no surprise. I just haven't seen any change. The dictator comment is an overall assessment, not just this one thing. At first I just thought you were feeling your way around being a Mod, and maybe you still are. I would have taken this to email and did this privately, but you decided to respond back to me in here.

No, you should not post something about me or anyone based on lies or misinformation because it's your right to think that way. In this case, a fellow mod just explained it yet again, which means whatever you're thinking and then posting is simply not the way things are, nor were they ever that way. It's simply not the truth. There are no dictators, there are no rogue moderators who make decisions and do things on their own. That is the truth.

Hey, then ban me.

The truth is the truth whether you want to accept it or not. After having it explained multiple times by other moderators, a reply like this is not only uncalled for but totally out of line. It's too bad you can't accept the truth and choose instead to believe whatever lies you want to believe.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Then that was my failing.  I should've been clearer initially

Billy, I thought a lot of the Melinda talk was happening during and right after C50. That was over 3 plus years ago. I am amazed that after all of the discussions that happened then, and with of the postings by Ray that that line of questioning would have died a long time ago. This was why I was asking for the age of the PM's. It is hard to fathom that this talk has still been going on recently.

The ones with me stopped, but not with others. That's why the thing with newer members came up.  That's also why I mentioned it was a combination of things, because the other PMs* didn't stop.

edit

*the other types of PMs, I meant. Sorry...browsing the board while listening to MiC to remind myself why I'm here in the first place. Yeah, I may be in the minority but I prefer the 1975 version of In the Back Of My Mind to the original. Anyway, where were we...?

[rab2591]

I vote that some of the PMs get posted...I'm 100% serious. Because I'm truly getting sick and tired of reading drbeachboy and others not understand in the slightest the severity of what was sent to people. This has gone from blaming the mods, to talk of allowing AGD back on the board in limited capacity, to Lee Dempsey leaving the board.

And Lee, go ahead and make another board. But this PM problem is just a symptom of a larger issue which will most certainly see itself on any forum...there seems to be quite a dislike of Melinda from certain people behind the scenes. This dislike has apparently lead to a bit of false information being spread about her...gossip if you will...and this gossip has found it's way onto this very forum (in a private capacity). I find it funny that drbeachboy is worried about gossipers taking control of the forum, because in the PMs from Doe I was privy to I saw a tremendous amount of gossip about Melinda. It's okay for a supposed historian and scholar to gossip, but it's not okay for average joe to gossip. Gotcha Common sense tells me that a person with the reputation of a "historian" spreading gossip is far worse than some random non-credible bloke spreading that same gossip.

I'm truly mind-blown by the ignorance in this thread. Again, I fully vote for a release of certain PMs in question. DrBeachBoy said that when this thread came to light, he "figured" that Guitarfool had dug up dirt on Doe. It wasn't until actual information was put forth that such a thought was put to rest. The same thing applies to this thread - no one is understanding the severity of this because the mods won't release the PMs. If you want this confusion to persist in a very unhealthy manner, if you want this forum to fall apart because of distrust of this information, keep on keeping people in the dark.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I vote against it. And if I do get outvoted, I will never post the contents of the PMs on this board. Not the ones I received. Now, if someone else does and it's a consensus, then whatever, but I don't feel right about it one bit.

[wilsonart1]

This is as good as the GOP race.

[rab2591]

I vote against it. And if I do get outvoted, I will never post the contents of the PMs on this board. Not the ones I received. Now, if someone else does and it's a consensus, then whatever, but I don't feel right about it one bit.

May I ask why? I very much respect any decision you make Billy, and trust that you're always trying to do the right thing. But it seems apparent that some people aren't getting the severity of this issue. I don't know if the mods haven't clearly explained themselves, or if it's the lack of hard evidence being put on the table. Frankly, I'd think the fact that both you and Chuck LePage were in agreement on this issue speaks volumes for the severity of what happened.

[drbeachboy]

Let me tell you something, I can think any way I like. It is how I see you. I never said anyone else does and I also stated that I hope I am wrong in my assessment. We talked (PM'd) about this in the past about how you come off when I read your posts. This should come as no surprise. I just haven't seen any change. The dictator comment is an overall assessment, not just this one thing. At first I just thought you were feeling your way around being a Mod, and maybe you still are. I would have taken this to email and did this privately, but you decided to respond back to me in here.

No, you should not post something about me or anyone based on lies or misinformation because it's your right to think that way. In this case, a fellow mod just explained it yet again, which means whatever you're thinking and then posting is simply not the way things are, nor were they ever that way. It's simply not the truth. There are no dictators, there are no rogue moderators who make decisions and do things on their own. That is the truth.

Hey, then ban me.

The truth is the truth whether you want to accept it or not. After having it explained multiple times by other moderators, a reply like this is not only uncalled for but totally out of line. It's too bad you can't accept the truth and choose instead to believe whatever lies you want to believe.

The other Moderators was just Billy, and I thank him for doing that. I guess what this all comes down to is this: A lot of us see what goes on in this place. Rarely is it addressed in the threads, let alone with bannings, especially of the lifetime variety. Yet, Mikey & AGD are given lifetime bans for stuff done that is not even public to the board. It's tough to accept that after seeing what goes on here publicly. Looking at this from the outside, it seems a little weird. Some very good people are beginning to leave this place over what happened here these past few days. That tells me something. So what's done is done, and I have said my peace. I'll either accept what has gone down and stay or I will not and leave. Again, I thank Billy for his explanations and for sharing as much info as he could.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I vote against it. And if I do get outvoted, I will never post the contents of the PMs on this board. Not the ones I received. Now, if someone else does and it's a consensus, then whatever, but I don't feel right about it one bit.

May I ask why? I very much respect any decision you make Billy, and trust that you're always trying to do the right thing. But it seems apparent that some people aren't getting the severity of this issue. I don't know if the mods haven't clearly explained themselves, or if it's the lack of hard evidence being put on the table. Frankly, I'd think the fact that both you and Chuck LePage were in agreement on this issue speaks volumes for the severity of what happened.

Because I was raised to believe that your word is your bond, and I made a promise, which even now I am going keep. I don't give an oatmeal pudding sh*t if it 'helps my position' or not, I just can't break my word and post anything publicly. I just can't.

[rab2591]

I vote against it. And if I do get outvoted, I will never post the contents of the PMs on this board. Not the ones I received. Now, if someone else does and it's a consensus, then whatever, but I don't feel right about it one bit.

May I ask why? I very much respect any decision you make Billy, and trust that you're always trying to do the right thing. But it seems apparent that some people aren't getting the severity of this issue. I don't know if the mods haven't clearly explained themselves, or if it's the lack of hard evidence being put on the table. Frankly, I'd think the fact that both you and Chuck LePage were in agreement on this issue speaks volumes for the severity of what happened.

Because I was raised to believe that your word is your bond, and I made a promise, which even now I am going keep. I don't give an oatmeal pudding sh*t if it 'helps my position' or not, I just can't break my word and post anything publicly. I just can't.

I totally understand and respect that Billy.

My best hope is that people understand your integrity, and understand how tough of a call the ban was for you (given your friendship with Andrew throughout the years). I hope that would be enough to finally lay this issue to rest for everyone here.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Me too...me too.

[SMiLE Brian]

Billy and the other mods are great, honest, and kind guys