Lifetime ban on AGD

[Jay]

We've lost another one. *sigh*

[alf wiedersehen]

I'm incredibly sorry to see you go, Lee.

[Lee Marshall]

Yup.

[Niko]

First off, you can't much harsher than a lifetime ban. I know what OSD did and that bordered on or could have been a lifetime ban. As I see it, something done in private like this is different than posting publicly. Posting the Jacqueline stuff in public is far worse than if he sent it privately. Again, in both cases what was said was wrong, but I am seeing this more about how the information was disseminated. Let me see if I got this right; something bad is said about Mike Love & family, then a finite ban. If it is about Brian Wilson & family, then an infinite ban. Is that about right?

Wasn't this actually AGDs 4th ban?

Why do you think it's ok for the rules to be do bent for this guy? Have you considered - what if the allegations are correct they are) - would you still keep him here? Even aside from the PMs, he was an asshole. Constantly insulting others and going off on anyone about the tiniest  factual inaccuracy. He was the most toxic person on this board and I'm glad to see him go.

Give it some time. I think the board will turn back into another golden era. It all happens in cycles after all.

Sorry for anyone who disagrees with me. Agd was the only person on this board I dislked...everyone else is genuinely cool.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

First off, you can't much harsher than a lifetime ban. I know what OSD did and that bordered on or could have been a lifetime ban. As I see it, something done in private like this is different than posting publicly. Posting the Jacqueline stuff in public is far worse than if he sent it privately. Again, in both cases what was said was wrong, but I am seeing this more about how the information was disseminated. Let me see if I got this right; something bad is said about Mike Love & family, then a finite ban. If it is about Brian Wilson & family, then an infinite ban. Is that about right?

Wasn't this actually AGDs 4th ban?

Why do you think it's ok for the rules to be do bent for this guy? Have you considered - what if the allegations are correct they are) - would you still keep him here? Even aside from the PMs, he was an asshole. Constantly insulting others and going off on anyone about the tiniest  factual inaccuracy. He was the most toxic person on this board and I'm glad to see him go.

Give it some time. I think the board will turn back into another golden era. It all happens in cycles after all.

Sorry for anyone who disagrees with me. Agd was the only person on this board I dislked...everyone else is genuinely cool.

Well said Woodstock and very true. I've heard it was more than 4 bans but whatever it is, he's gone thankfully. It's all well and good to have to have facts and figures but when that person has a universe sized chip on his shoulder for anyone who steps out of HIS line of thinking, then it's not gonna turn out well. Those who are crying in their beer, I wouldn't put it past the anointed one to create his own board, be the CEO (he always wanted to be) and soul moderator. For the agdster, it's all about the power. 

[drbeachboy]

First off, you can't much harsher than a lifetime ban. I know what OSD did and that bordered on or could have been a lifetime ban. As I see it, something done in private like this is different than posting publicly. Posting the Jacqueline stuff in public is far worse than if he sent it privately. Again, in both cases what was said was wrong, but I am seeing this more about how the information was disseminated. Let me see if I got this right; something bad is said about Mike Love & family, then a finite ban. If it is about Brian Wilson & family, then an infinite ban. Is that about right?

Wasn't this actually AGDs 4th ban?

Why do you think it's ok for the rules to be do bent for this guy? Have you considered - what if the allegations are correct they are) - would you still keep him here? Even aside from the PMs, he was an asshole. Constantly insulting others and going off on anyone about the tiniest  factual inaccuracy. He was the most toxic person on this board and I'm glad to see him go.

Give it some time. I think the board will turn back into another golden era. It all happens in cycles after all.

Sorry for anyone who disagrees with me. Agd was the only person on this board I dislked...everyone else is genuinely cool.

Seems to me and again this is strictly my opinion from what I've seen go on in here, but for the most part he treated people as they treated him. Sure, he gave a lot of sh*t, but he took a lot too. I didn't agree with everything that he said and often argued about them, but I did so respectfully and he reciprocated. That seems to be lost on some people around here. Like Lee, I received PM's from Andrew and never once did I receive anything like what he is accused of sending. As far as I am concerned, his positives outweighed his negatives, but that's just me and I am apparently not alone in feeling that way.

[bgas]

.

[JK]

This will be my last post on this board, as I try to find another place where the emphasis is on scholarly discussion of the band's music.  And if that place doesn't exist, I may have to create it...

Lee Dempsey

Although this doesn't really surprise me, Lee, you will be so missed. One more gracious poster to make their exit...

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

First off, you can't much harsher than a lifetime ban. I know what OSD did and that bordered on or could have been a lifetime ban. As I see it, something done in private like this is different than posting publicly. Posting the Jacqueline stuff in public is far worse than if he sent it privately. Again, in both cases what was said was wrong, but I am seeing this more about how the information was disseminated. Let me see if I got this right; something bad is said about Mike Love & family, then a finite ban. If it is about Brian Wilson & family, then an infinite ban. Is that about right?

Wasn't this actually AGDs 4th ban?

Actually, you're right, sort of...one was reversed shortly after because I had misread his original post initially.

[Charles LePage @ ComicList]

Those who are crying in their beer, I wouldn't put it past the anointed one to create his own board, be the CEO (he always wanted to be) and soul moderator. For the agdster, it's all about the power. 

Creating a message board is easy.  Moderating it is much harder, especially with the volume of people and messages on this board.  Now, if someone were to start a message board with very little activity, then the moderating would be fairly effortless, depending on what off topic messages and activity was allowed.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Heh...so AGD is getting badmouthed for "blabbing" now. Yet Bob Hanes is an angel??? Geez...he was the king of telling people "secrets" and people finding out that he pretty much told everybody. (Gawd, I miss that guy, though...I wish he could have been here to see The Smile Sessions...)

It's not the fact he said anything, it's what he said. Some of which turned out not only to be false, but would definitely result in a defamation suit if made public. Now, to play devil's advocate, it could be that he was getting bad information from somebody with an axe to grind (and in one specific case, I know for a fact he was intentionally given bad info).  Again, you may feel differently if you had known specifics, but I hope you can respect why I cannot go into specific details publicly, and why I will not.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Seems to me and again this is strictly my opinion from what I've seen go on in here, but for the most part he treated people as they treated him..

For the most parts, yeah. It was the other times that became the problem.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I have debated whether to post in this thread or not...

For those of you that are newer members, an introduction may first be in order...  I am the former editor and publisher of Endless Summer Quarterly, and I've been a Beach Boys fan and collector for around 45 years. I would put my Beach Boys collection in the top 10 in the U.S., only behind some of the uber-collectors like Bgas, Jim, Panayiotis, and a couple more.  I handed over the editorial reigns of ESQ to David Beard around 15 years ago, when my professional and family priorities caused me not to have sufficient time to dedicate to the magazine, however in full disclosure I still maintain a financial interest in ESQ as a silent partner.  Although I've been a member of this board from the very start, I've kept a rather quiet persona around here, preferring to post mainly in the threads that deal objectively with the band's history and music.

I consider AGD a colleague in the quest to uncover as much factual information about the Beach Boys as possible.  I've learned more from him than just about anyone else on this board (perhaps c-man excepted).  I'll admit that I've been peeved at him occasionally for one of his smarmy public admonitions when I've gotten my facts incorrect, however I've gotten just as many PM's offering me the opportunity to correct myself before he posted anything.  I've just looked through my dozens of PM's from him, and I don't have a single one that could be considered "gossipy" or defamatory toward any individual on or outside this message board.  I don't dispute the reports by others that that he did; I am only speaking from my personal experience.  Andrew knew that I had no interest in that type of discussion.

I've always tried to maintain a neutral stance toward the Beach Boys.  I am a Brian fan first, but I don't hate the touring band.  I think they serve a purpose in continuing to deliver the Beach Boys' music to the masses.  But I've watched as this board has appeared to degenerate into a battle of the BW versus BB camps, with, in my opinion as a third-party observer, negative posts directed at Mike going seemingly unpunished and those threads allowed to flourish, while threads that are even slightly critical of Brian are steered in a direction that will cause them to go away.

AGD's permanent ban from this board is a MAJOR loss that further takes this board away from being a source of historical information, to being a forum for personal sparring and negativity.  This will be my last post on this board, as I try to find another place where the emphasis is on scholarly discussion of the band's music.  And if that place doesn't exist, I may have to create it...

Lee Dempsey

I am very sorry to see you go. I can definitely understand and respect your decision, and can relate to it. I've considered the same thing several times over the past year, but decided against it. I hope one day you do reconsider.

[drbeachboy]

Billy, the biggest issue is that we are all here for different reasons. Some are here to learn and some are here to gossip. If the scholars and historians leave, then we ain't gonna be doin' much learin'. If what AGD did is considered bad, just wait until the gossipers are ruling the board.

[Robbie Mac]

I have been very vocal about objecting to the "Wifeandmanagers"  and "Me-Landy" labels that several members here continue to use as an insult to Melinda and to imply Landy-like manipulation. I'm not an insider, and I don't know any of these people personally, but I find it insulting and borderline slanderous to compare the man's wife to someone who abused, manipulated and almost killed him, and I've said so in several threads.

Several times I've gotten PM's from Andrew telling me how wrong I was about Melinda. Terse. Not particularly bullying., but definitely in the "I know stuff you don't" category.   I'm wise enough to know not to engage in that kind of bait, so I ignored the PM's; but I have no doubt that, had I responded, I would have gotten the AGD version of just how vile Melinda is. As a result, I don't have any difficulty believing that things could have gotten out of hand with other board members.

It's too bad. I often disagreed with AGD's anti-Melinda agenda and his Mike Love pushing, but he was quick to call BS on some areas that needed it: the Loren and Rocky threads come to mind, in particular.

I won't miss his condescending attitude. But, I will miss his actual (not agenda fueled) knowledge.

I had also received a similarly toned PM from Andrew after I had made comments defending David Leaf's and Domenic Priore's work. Like Cyncie, I kept my temper in check. Had I been in a different mood, it very easily could have escalated into a full out flame war.

[Smilin Ed H]

I have debated whether to post in this thread or not...

For those of you that are newer members, an introduction may first be in order...  I am the former editor and publisher of Endless Summer Quarterly, and I've been a Beach Boys fan and collector for around 45 years. I would put my Beach Boys collection in the top 10 in the U.S., only behind some of the uber-collectors like Bgas, Jim, Panayiotis, and a couple more.  I handed over the editorial reigns of ESQ to David Beard around 15 years ago, when my professional and family priorities caused me not to have sufficient time to dedicate to the magazine, however in full disclosure I still maintain a financial interest in ESQ as a silent partner.  Although I've been a member of this board from the very start, I've kept a rather quiet persona around here, preferring to post mainly in the threads that deal objectively with the band's history and music.

I consider AGD a colleague in the quest to uncover as much factual information about the Beach Boys as possible.  I've learned more from him than just about anyone else on this board (perhaps c-man excepted).  I'll admit that I've been peeved at him occasionally for one of his smarmy public admonitions when I've gotten my facts incorrect, however I've gotten just as many PM's offering me the opportunity to correct myself before he posted anything.  I've just looked through my dozens of PM's from him, and I don't have a single one that could be considered "gossipy" or defamatory toward any individual on or outside this message board.  I don't dispute the reports by others that that he did; I am only speaking from my personal experience.  Andrew knew that I had no interest in that type of discussion.

I've always tried to maintain a neutral stance toward the Beach Boys.  I am a Brian fan first, but I don't hate the touring band.  I think they serve a purpose in continuing to deliver the Beach Boys' music to the masses.  But I've watched as this board has appeared to degenerate into a battle of the BW versus BB camps, with, in my opinion as a third-party observer, negative posts directed at Mike going seemingly unpunished and those threads allowed to flourish, while threads that are even slightly critical of Brian are steered in a direction that will cause them to go away.

AGD's permanent ban from this board is a MAJOR loss that further takes this board away from being a source of historical information, to being a forum for personal sparring and negativity.  This will be my last post on this board, as I try to find another place where the emphasis is on scholarly discussion of the band's music.  And if that place doesn't exist, I may have to create it...

Lee Dempsey

Couldn't agree more - though we're talking about a handful of people only. Look at the way AGD's last thread was almost derailed.

[guitarfool2002]

Billy, the biggest issue is that we are all here for different reasons. Some are here to learn and some are here to gossip. If the scholars and historians leave, then we ain't gonna be doin' much learin'. If what AGD did is considered bad, just wait until the gossipers are ruling the board.

Have the explanations given in detail by both Billy and Charles not been enough? One of the issues has been that the gossip and gossipers were in fact ruling the board and doing so in a way that would be hidden unless someone reported what they received. How does the line blur between history and scholarship and veer off into negative comments about personal lives and marriage, and that is just what has been reported publicly in this thread. Is there a justification for challenging things like marriage and family related to the band, or for spreading gossip about other board members' personal lives if the goal is or was history and scholarship?

[Emdeeh]

I hope to see one more post from you on this board when you create that new website

Same here, Lee. Sorry to see you go, but I understand why.

[drbeachboy]

Billy, the biggest issue is that we are all here for different reasons. Some are here to learn and some are here to gossip. If the scholars and historians leave, then we ain't gonna be doin' much learin'. If what AGD did is considered bad, just wait until the gossipers are ruling the board.

Have the explanations given in detail by both Billy and Charles not been enough? One of the issues has been that the gossip and gossipers were in fact ruling the board and doing so in a way that would be hidden unless someone reported what they received. How does the line blur between history and scholarship and veer off into negative comments about personal lives and marriage, and that is just what has been reported publicly in this thread. Is there a justification for challenging things like marriage and family related to the band, or for spreading gossip about other board members' personal lives if the goal is or was history and scholarship?

Look, you and I will never agree on anything. I just find it amazing that the folks who have the most public issues with AGD are the ones who received these PM's. I find it quite strange that he wouldn't have shared those findings with the people who are backing him now and also received PM's that did not include said gossip. Since nothing has been shared, I will not state that it did not happen, because I only know what has been stated here, but I have my doubts based on my own dealings with him. I also know about the public stuff that goes on here where nary a word is said about it. This place teeters on libel constantly. Hell, when this first popped up on the board, you were the first person who came to mind. I figured you dug up the dirt to get him banned. It is no secret that you two had your issues. Honestly, I'd like to know just how old these PM's are.

[guitarfool2002]

Billy, the biggest issue is that we are all here for different reasons. Some are here to learn and some are here to gossip. If the scholars and historians leave, then we ain't gonna be doin' much learin'. If what AGD did is considered bad, just wait until the gossipers are ruling the board.

Have the explanations given in detail by both Billy and Charles not been enough? One of the issues has been that the gossip and gossipers were in fact ruling the board and doing so in a way that would be hidden unless someone reported what they received. How does the line blur between history and scholarship and veer off into negative comments about personal lives and marriage, and that is just what has been reported publicly in this thread. Is there a justification for challenging things like marriage and family related to the band, or for spreading gossip about other board members' personal lives if the goal is or was history and scholarship?

Look, you and I will never agree on anything. I just find it amazing that the folks who have the most public issues with AGD are the ones who received these PM's. I find it quite strange that he wouldn't have shared those findings with the people who are backing him now and also received PM's that did not include said gossip. Since nothing has been shared, I will not state that it did not happen, because I only know what has been stated here, but I have my doubts based on my own dealings with him. I also know about the public stuff that goes on here where nary a word is said about it. This place teeters on libel constantly. Hell, when this first popped up on the board, you were the first person who came to mind. I figured you dug up the dirt to get him banned. It is no secret that you two had your issues. Honestly, I'd like to know just how old these PM's are.

Again, you do not read what has been described and detailed and instead take shots at me. Since you don't know what was or wasn't involved, why do you continue to make assumptions and post things you have no clue about?

There were PM's reported in the past year that involved board members who were new sign-ups, relatively new members, and members who had no personal issues or disputes to speak of. And in at least one case that was reported, a board member who received one of the PM's felt uncomfortable enough to leave and no longer participate because of it. There were also PM's that got into personal issues involving other board members - NOT public figures or band associates - which had no place on this or any other fan forum.

Those are the facts.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Billy, the biggest issue is that we are all here for different reasons. Some are here to learn and some are here to gossip. If the scholars and historians leave, then we ain't gonna be doin' much learin'. If what AGD did is considered bad, just wait until the gossipers are ruling the board.

Have the explanations given in detail by both Billy and Charles not been enough? One of the issues has been that the gossip and gossipers were in fact ruling the board and doing so in a way that would be hidden unless someone reported what they received. How does the line blur between history and scholarship and veer off into negative comments about personal lives and marriage, and that is just what has been reported publicly in this thread. Is there a justification for challenging things like marriage and family related to the band, or for spreading gossip about other board members' personal lives if the goal is or was history and scholarship?

Look, you and I will never agree on anything. I just find it amazing that the folks who have the most public issues with AGD are the ones who received these PM's. I find it quite strange that he wouldn't have shared those findings with the people who are backing him now and also received PM's that did not include said gossip. Since nothing has been shared, I will not state that it did not happen, because I only know what has been stated here, but I have my doubts based on my own dealings with him. I also know about the public stuff that goes on here where nary a word is said about it. This place teeters on libel constantly. Hell, when this first popped up on the board, you were the first person who came to mind. I figured you dug up the dirt to get him banned. It is no secret that you two had your issues. Honestly, I'd like to know just how old these PM's are.

You find it surprising? It's called vindictive behavior. DrBB, we get your opinion! You refuse to believe and accept. Now you are accusing Mods of digging this stuff up? My, my.  

Record stuck in a scratch.....

[SurfRiderHawaii]

We've lost another one. *sigh*

Yes, sadly, Prince has been found dead...

[drbeachboy]

Billy, the biggest issue is that we are all here for different reasons. Some are here to learn and some are here to gossip. If the scholars and historians leave, then we ain't gonna be doin' much learin'. If what AGD did is considered bad, just wait until the gossipers are ruling the board.

Have the explanations given in detail by both Billy and Charles not been enough? One of the issues has been that the gossip and gossipers were in fact ruling the board and doing so in a way that would be hidden unless someone reported what they received. How does the line blur between history and scholarship and veer off into negative comments about personal lives and marriage, and that is just what has been reported publicly in this thread. Is there a justification for challenging things like marriage and family related to the band, or for spreading gossip about other board members' personal lives if the goal is or was history and scholarship?

Look, you and I will never agree on anything. I just find it amazing that the folks who have the most public issues with AGD are the ones who received these PM's. I find it quite strange that he wouldn't have shared those findings with the people who are backing him now and also received PM's that did not include said gossip. Since nothing has been shared, I will not state that it did not happen, because I only know what has been stated here, but I have my doubts based on my own dealings with him. I also know about the public stuff that goes on here where nary a word is said about it. This place teeters on libel constantly. Hell, when this first popped up on the board, you were the first person who came to mind. I figured you dug up the dirt to get him banned. It is no secret that you two had your issues. Honestly, I'd like to know just how old these PM's are.

Again, you do not read what has been described and detailed and instead take shots at me. Since you don't know what was or wasn't involved, why do you continue to make assumptions and post things you have no clue about?

There were PM's reported in the past year that involved board members who were new sign-ups, relatively new members, and members who had no personal issues or disputes to speak of. And in at least one case that was reported, a board member who received one of the PM's felt uncomfortable enough to leave and no longer participate because of it. There were also PM's that got into personal issues involving other board members - NOT public figures or band associates - which had no place on this or any other fan forum.

Those are the facts.

No pot shots being taken, it is an honest assessment of how I feel about you. You come off as a know it all and act like a dictator as a Mod. We can take this to email if you want. I will not use the PM function in this place.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Billy, the biggest issue is that we are all here for different reasons. Some are here to learn and some are here to gossip. If the scholars and historians leave, then we ain't gonna be doin' much learin'. If what AGD did is considered bad, just wait until the gossipers are ruling the board.

Have the explanations given in detail by both Billy and Charles not been enough? One of the issues has been that the gossip and gossipers were in fact ruling the board and doing so in a way that would be hidden unless someone reported what they received. How does the line blur between history and scholarship and veer off into negative comments about personal lives and marriage, and that is just what has been reported publicly in this thread. Is there a justification for challenging things like marriage and family related to the band, or for spreading gossip about other board members' personal lives if the goal is or was history and scholarship?

Look, you and I will never agree on anything. I just find it amazing that the folks who have the most public issues with AGD are the ones who received these PM's. I find it quite strange that he wouldn't have shared those findings with the people who are backing him now and also received PM's that did not include said gossip. Since nothing has been shared, I will not state that it did not happen, because I only know what has been stated here, but I have my doubts based on my own dealings with him. I also know about the public stuff that goes on here where nary a word is said about it. This place teeters on libel constantly. Hell, when this first popped up on the board, you were the first person who came to mind. I figured you dug up the dirt to get him banned. It is no secret that you two had your issues. Honestly, I'd like to know just how old these PM's are.

I don't know if GF got these or not, but please understand...*I* saw them with my own eyes. If it was one reported to me, I insisted on screen shots. I did indeed get several. Not old. I normally don't share private mod discussions publicly, but I will do so this one time...I am the one who handled this, with the support of the admins. I insisted that I would not take any action until there were three (3) different people reporting them. *


As for the other PMs, same thing. Now, I got those myself as well, but never said anything because I kept things in confidence. Now, I will *never* divulge their contents publicly, but I will say that I know for a fact others have been told the same things, because they told me (and again I got screenshots). So, I'm glad that you are not questioning the fact that these PMs exist, because it wouldn't be Guitarfool's integrity you'd be questioning, it'd be  mine.

* edit- 3 different board members, not moderators!

[guitarfool2002]

Billy, the biggest issue is that we are all here for different reasons. Some are here to learn and some are here to gossip. If the scholars and historians leave, then we ain't gonna be doin' much learin'. If what AGD did is considered bad, just wait until the gossipers are ruling the board.

Have the explanations given in detail by both Billy and Charles not been enough? One of the issues has been that the gossip and gossipers were in fact ruling the board and doing so in a way that would be hidden unless someone reported what they received. How does the line blur between history and scholarship and veer off into negative comments about personal lives and marriage, and that is just what has been reported publicly in this thread. Is there a justification for challenging things like marriage and family related to the band, or for spreading gossip about other board members' personal lives if the goal is or was history and scholarship?

Look, you and I will never agree on anything. I just find it amazing that the folks who have the most public issues with AGD are the ones who received these PM's. I find it quite strange that he wouldn't have shared those findings with the people who are backing him now and also received PM's that did not include said gossip. Since nothing has been shared, I will not state that it did not happen, because I only know what has been stated here, but I have my doubts based on my own dealings with him. I also know about the public stuff that goes on here where nary a word is said about it. This place teeters on libel constantly. Hell, when this first popped up on the board, you were the first person who came to mind. I figured you dug up the dirt to get him banned. It is no secret that you two had your issues. Honestly, I'd like to know just how old these PM's are.

Again, you do not read what has been described and detailed and instead take shots at me. Since you don't know what was or wasn't involved, why do you continue to make assumptions and post things you have no clue about?

There were PM's reported in the past year that involved board members who were new sign-ups, relatively new members, and members who had no personal issues or disputes to speak of. And in at least one case that was reported, a board member who received one of the PM's felt uncomfortable enough to leave and no longer participate because of it. There were also PM's that got into personal issues involving other board members - NOT public figures or band associates - which had no place on this or any other fan forum.

Those are the facts.

No pot shots being taken, it is an honest assessment of how I feel about you. You come off as a know it all and act like a dictator as a Mod. We can take this to email if you want. I will not use the PM function in this place.

Your assessment posted publicly about how everything unfolded was completely wrong in this case, and if there are any doubts then consider that what was said in the comment I'm quoting here is exactly, 100% true as written. And consider that before posting comments that are simply not accurate or true, no matter how strongly you believe them.

Just so I am straight on this; you are telling me that if AGD had zero or only one strike against him, then he would have received a finite ban, instead of a lifetime ban?

No, they both would've gotten lifetimes.

And it's hard for me *not* to take it personally; I feel like I'm being attacked, and that I could walk on water right this minute and still get crap. I'm this close to saying the hell with this board.

For the record, I approached GF and lowbacca about this, and after the 3 of us talking, I approached Chuck for a second opinion. We were all in agreement, but I had done the initial groundwork. So now that *that* is out there...everybody still feel the same way?