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« Reply #200 on: April 20, 2016, 12:46:39 PM »

And it's hard for me *not* to take it personally; I feel like I'm being attacked, and that I could walk on water right this minute and still get crap. I'm this close to saying the hell with this board.

Please don't do that. I don't know who's attacking you----if anyone is, they are in the tiniest of minorities.
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« Reply #201 on: April 20, 2016, 12:51:27 PM »

Quote
He is one of a handful of people here that when he posts, it has meaning to the thread. Usually, no horseshitting around. You can depend on getting a meaningful answer from him. There will be no one here on a regular basis to provide that function. That is a very big deal to me and should be a very big deal to the board.

And that is why this bothers and hurts me so bad, aside from us being friends. That is why this was so disappointing and painful for me. I didn't want it to have to come to this. But it did, and what's done is done.
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« Reply #202 on: April 20, 2016, 01:05:35 PM »

Okay, so I read this entire thread. People are alleging bullying and threatening, but nobody has given an example. Certainly someone would have something verbatim to back that up.

Seems to me that from recent conversations with AGD, his general knowledge of the Beach Boys, and just overall common sense, he knows that so much as scratching your butt sideways when it comes to *anything* to do with the Beach Boys will get you a letter from an attorney. I'm curious as to what exactly was said.

Frankly, I'm surprised he even was on this board recently given his disgust with people's attitudes and questioning his proven knowledge.

To be quite truthful, he has told me in confidence some pretty damning things about certain individuals within the Beach Boys' "camp" (and, to be fair, some pretty redeeming things as well); but there's something that I can say about that: everything he has ever told me has also been told to me by others who have even stronger connections than he does. So either he's not "spreading lies," or somehow he conspired with a couple dozen people to back him up on the "lies."
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« Reply #203 on: April 20, 2016, 01:38:21 PM »

Okay, so I read this entire thread. People are alleging bullying and threatening, but nobody has given an example. Certainly someone would have something verbatim to back that up.



I have everything, from the complaints from other members, to the PMs, you name it. I have screenshots too. Am I going to post it here? Heck no...if you had filed a complaint with a mod and asked something to stay confidential, wouldn't it be prudent NOT to out someone like that? Conversely, if you had gotten in trouble over something said in confidence, would you want said contents published? I would imagine not.  So no, I will not be posting anything verbatim for several reasons.

Quote
So either he's not "spreading lies," or somehow he conspired with a couple dozen people to back him up on the "lies."

Can only speak for what I myself received (directly and indirectly) , but I followed through on some investigating on my own on one of the things referenced, and have proof that the said allegation was not true. That is one. I left it alone, but several other members here got the same PM.
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« Reply #204 on: April 20, 2016, 01:49:24 PM »

Like the majority here, I've never had a single ban. To have 2 strikes, yet continue to throw caution to the wind was only going to end this way.

You live by the sword, you die by the sword.

Sad result, but supported 100%.
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« Reply #205 on: April 20, 2016, 02:09:01 PM »

Quote
Just so I am straight on this; you are telling me that if AGD had zero or only one strike against him, then he would have received a finite ban, instead of a lifetime ban?

No, they both would've gotten lifetimes.

And it's hard for me *not* to take it personally; I feel like I'm being attacked, and that I could walk on water right this minute and still get crap. I'm this close to saying the hell with this board.
I will tell you why from my perspective. He is one of a handful of people here that when he posts, it has meaning to the thread. Usually, no horseshitting around. You can depend on getting a meaningful answer from him. There will be no one here on a regular basis to provide that function. That is a very big deal to me and should be a very big deal to the board. From all my years on the net, this is the only place that HAD a resident historian to draw from.

Man, I really don't get your angle here.  Say for instance that all of the revelations of this thread came out, but AGD was considered too great an asset to lose, and was allowed to stay.  Do you not see that he'd be damaged goods from hereon in?  How his version of history would be called into question?  How his "meaningful answers" and "no horseshitting around" might be somewhat undermined by the revelation that he's been spreading lies for, we're told, the better part of a decade?  Do you not see that every time that he might attempt to settle a dispute from now on by invoking some sort of confidential insider source, his credibility would be called into question?  (Hell, I think we should be going back to look at some of the older threads he's weighed into in that way, and checking that we got to the right conclusions.)

If you are bemoaning the loss of an important historian, then please realise that the actions under discussion are not the actions of a historian.  They are the actions of a liar...  or else, charitably, the acts of someone who isn't checking the information that he's receiving from third parties.  I leave it to you to decide whether AGD was the sort of person who checked facts or not.
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« Reply #206 on: April 20, 2016, 02:12:49 PM »

Brian and Melinda are public figures. Under U.S. law, it's basically impossible to libel (slander is spoken so it doesn't apply here) anyone who is a public figure. AGD likely said something out of bounds -- although goodness knows many have speculated about Melinda's motives in the past and an incredibly unflattering story about her appears in the Stebbins FAQ book -- but there shouldn't be a legal question here.

But this is all depressing and beside the point, I suppose.

Where did you get that info on libel?  This is what I found, "In United States law, public figure is a term applied in the context of defamation actions (libel and slander) as well as invasion of privacy. A public figure (such as a politician, celebrity, or business leader) cannot base a lawsuit on incorrect harmful statements unless there is proof that the writer or publisher acted with actual malice (knowledge of falsity or reckless disregard for the truth).[1] The burden of proof in defamation actions is higher in the case of a public figure."  

That's pretty much what I meant, Debbie. And this is a real side discussion, but the point is that "actual malice" is quite difficult to prove because it involves knowing someone's state of mind, which is basically impossible. As a result, there are very few libel lawsuits in the U.S. from famous people -- as distinguished from the U.K. So yes, you could definitely libel a famous person in the United States, but unless they're able to prove you're out to get them, there's little legally to stop you. Or you could just claim it was parody (this is what "The People vs. Larry Flynt" was about).

But the SS board is a privately owned space, and Chuck has the absolute right to decide what appears here. And involving BW and Melinda's kids -- if that's indeed what happened -- really goes beyond the pale. No way that they're public figures.

« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 02:29:41 PM by Wirestone » Logged
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« Reply #207 on: April 20, 2016, 02:21:04 PM »

Certainly an historian shown to deliberately lie about his subject has sacrificed his reputation.
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« Reply #208 on: April 20, 2016, 03:07:29 PM »

...everybody still feel the same way?

I do: lock it. The topic served its purpose in that the info that can be shared has been. Everyone has vented for days, and we're mostly left with the same old nonsense repetitions. Who's meaner? Who's trollier (tm)? What about that one time when such-and-such happened? Remember, I said blah blah blah. Not important. Move on.
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« Reply #209 on: April 20, 2016, 03:13:03 PM »

I'm good Billy.  What was done was what needed to be done.  You guys nailed it and I'm behind you for it.   That said...I'm not glad that it happened.  But to let it go would have been worse.  F A R worse.  I still maintain that Andrew needs some help here.  Something is obviously wrong.  All his 'maneuvering' can't undo all of the good he did along the way...but it doesn't augment it either.  It was wrong.  100% wrong.  I'm sure, though, that he didn't do it for the 'fun' of it

I will remain his friend.
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« Reply #210 on: April 20, 2016, 03:18:58 PM »

I only wish that he could come back to explain his actions or apologize.  Not that he would want to, but with this it's kind of left hanging in the wind.
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« Reply #211 on: April 20, 2016, 03:27:45 PM »

...everybody still feel the same way?

I do: lock it. The topic served its purpose in that the info that can be shared has been. Everyone has vented for days, and we're mostly left with the same old nonsense repetitions. Who's meaner? Who's trollier (tm)? What about that one time when such-and-such happened? Remember, I said blah blah blah. Not important. Move on.

I am indeed going to lock it. If the other mods have something additional to say, it can be unlocked then..

edit

actually will open it back up for  a few hours...lock it either when I get home or I go on break..
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« Reply #212 on: April 20, 2016, 06:26:25 PM »

No, because OSD is not respected and revered as AGD was/is.
Oh, so status makes a difference too. The old Preferential Treatment banning. I got it!
I'm saying that we wouldn't be talking about it, of even have a thread about it if it were OSD, because OSD isn't known as an "elder" who's been involved in the BB's community for 40+ years.

LuHv to hear people talking smack especially when they don't know what the hell they're saying.  Perhaps a little research on this very board would enlighten you. When I got banned, quite a few kind souls here were nice enough to ask the mods to unban me. Eventually, they did. People threw me a "welcome back OSD party which took up a few pages. I was genuinely humbled by the response. There was even a Part Two.

Why was I banned? Because I issued an unsavory comment about myKe luHv surrounded by a bunch of women all of whom I had never seen before! I had no idea who they were but nonetheless, the hammer came down before I could right a terribly wrong post.

As far as not being an "elder", once again,  I have been a fan since the beginning, which is longer than the Doester. I've had the privilege of doing things with the ORIGINAL group and even after that that I could never imagine. Let's just say I was in the right place at the right time, or just plain lucky.

I could care less if you love AGD and hate me. It's water off a duck's back, but get your facts straight.
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« Reply #213 on: April 20, 2016, 06:50:33 PM »

As far as not being an "elder", once again,  I have been a fan since the beginning, which is longer than the Doester. I've had the privilege of doing things with the ORIGINAL group and even after that that I could never imagine. Let's just say I was in the right place at the right time, or just plain lucky.
I mean he doesn't call himself ''old'' surferdude for nothing, LuHv him or not, he is definitely an ''elder''.
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« Reply #214 on: April 20, 2016, 06:54:50 PM »

Three years ago I was the victim of a similar smear PM campaign by Doe. One day I started to get PMs from people telling me that had received a PM by Doe, unsolicited,  containing untrue derogatory info about me. Doe had apparently conducted, and shared, a detailed background investigation on me. Adding his own fabricated derogatory details. Sound familiar?

Add that to his nasty PM attacks on new members, this latest PM smear, and a bunch of stuff we are not privy to and you have strike 3, 4, 5 and 6.

We still have Doe's researcher on the board, C-man. So as far as I am concerned, it's a win win!
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« Reply #215 on: April 20, 2016, 07:22:37 PM »

 Evil
No, because OSD is not respected and revered as AGD was/is.
Oh, so status makes a difference too. The old Preferential Treatment banning. I got it!
I'm saying that we wouldn't be talking about it, of even have a thread about it if it were OSD, because OSD isn't known as an "elder" who's been involved in the BB's community for 40+ years.

LuHv to hear people talking smack especially when they don't know what the hell they're saying.  Perhaps a little research on this very board would enlighten you. When I got banned, quite a few kind souls here were nice enough to ask the mods to unban me. Eventually, they did. People threw me a "welcome back OSD party which took up a few pages. I was genuinely humbled by the response. There was even a Part Two.

Why was I banned? Because I issued an unsavory comment about myKe luHv surrounded by a bunch of women all of whom I had never seen before! I had no idea who they were but nonetheless, the hammer came down before I could right a terribly wrong post.

As far as not being an "elder", once again,  I have been a fan since the beginning, which is longer than the Doester. I've had the privilege of doing things with the ORIGINAL group and even after that that I could never imagine. Let's just say I was in the right place at the right time, or just plain lucky.

I could care less if you love AGD and hate me. It's water off a duck's back, but get your facts straight.

 Did you loan Brian your pencil so he could play the snare on "Surfin"? Did Mike steal your first girlfriend?  LOL  Evil
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 07:26:41 PM by Moon Dawg » Logged
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« Reply #216 on: April 20, 2016, 07:24:28 PM »

Did you loan Brian your pencil so he could play the snare on "Surfin"? Did Mike steal your girlfriend?  LOL



Way back WHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN some loud braggart named Mike put OSD down and said his school was great!
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« Reply #217 on: April 20, 2016, 07:32:43 PM »

Okay, so I read this entire thread. People are alleging bullying and threatening, but nobody has given an example. Certainly someone would have something verbatim to back that up.

Seems to me that from recent conversations with AGD, his general knowledge of the Beach Boys, and just overall common sense, he knows that so much as scratching your butt sideways when it comes to *anything* to do with the Beach Boys will get you a letter from an attorney. I'm curious as to what exactly was said.

Frankly, I'm surprised he even was on this board recently given his disgust with people's attitudes and questioning his proven knowledge.

To be quite truthful, he has told me in confidence some pretty damning things about certain individuals within the Beach Boys' "camp" (and, to be fair, some pretty redeeming things as well); but there's something that I can say about that: everything he has ever told me has also been told to me by others who have even stronger connections than he does. So either he's not "spreading lies," or somehow he conspired with a couple dozen people to back him up on the "lies."


What is your version then of what is the truth versus what is not? Considering you most likely wouldn't know what was actually said, it would be difficult to make a public call either way on fact versus fiction, yet that's what you seem to be doing based on whatever damning things were told to you in confidence. If you know something that was said relative to all of this, which you know is the truth, what is it?
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« Reply #218 on: April 20, 2016, 07:47:10 PM »

Okay, so I read this entire thread. People are alleging bullying and threatening, but nobody has given an example. Certainly someone would have something verbatim to back that up.

Seems to me that from recent conversations with AGD, his general knowledge of the Beach Boys, and just overall common sense, he knows that so much as scratching your butt sideways when it comes to *anything* to do with the Beach Boys will get you a letter from an attorney. I'm curious as to what exactly was said.

Frankly, I'm surprised he even was on this board recently given his disgust with people's attitudes and questioning his proven knowledge.

To be quite truthful, he has told me in confidence some pretty damning things about certain individuals within the Beach Boys' "camp" (and, to be fair, some pretty redeeming things as well); but there's something that I can say about that: everything he has ever told me has also been told to me by others who have even stronger connections than he does. So either he's not "spreading lies," or somehow he conspired with a couple dozen people to back him up on the "lies."


What is your version then of what is the truth versus what is not? Considering you most likely wouldn't know what was actually said, it would be difficult to make a public call either way on fact versus fiction, yet that's what you seem to be doinjg based on whatever damning things were told to you in confidence. If you know something that was said relative to all of this, which you know is the truth, what is it?
For a Mod, you sure are confrontational. I thought you guys were locking this thread?
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« Reply #219 on: April 20, 2016, 07:49:44 PM »

Okay, so I read this entire thread. People are alleging bullying and threatening, but nobody has given an example. Certainly someone would have something verbatim to back that up.

To be quite truthful, he has told me in confidence some pretty damning things about certain individuals within the Beach Boys' "camp" (and, to be fair, some pretty redeeming things as well); but there's something that I can say about that: everything he has ever told me has also been told to me by others who have even stronger connections than he does. So either he's not "spreading lies," or somehow he conspired with a couple dozen people to back him up on the "lies."

I gave examples. I can give more but what's the point? Charles and Billy have spelled it out quite clearly!

And how do you know that these "damming things" are even true? Your post is more validation of why he has been banned! And shouldn't such an "esteemed historian and author" not be spreading malicious gossip?
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« Reply #220 on: April 20, 2016, 07:52:25 PM »

Okay, so I read this entire thread. People are alleging bullying and threatening, but nobody has given an example. Certainly someone would have something verbatim to back that up.

Seems to me that from recent conversations with AGD, his general knowledge of the Beach Boys, and just overall common sense, he knows that so much as scratching your butt sideways when it comes to *anything* to do with the Beach Boys will get you a letter from an attorney. I'm curious as to what exactly was said.

Frankly, I'm surprised he even was on this board recently given his disgust with people's attitudes and questioning his proven knowledge.

To be quite truthful, he has told me in confidence some pretty damning things about certain individuals within the Beach Boys' "camp" (and, to be fair, some pretty redeeming things as well); but there's something that I can say about that: everything he has ever told me has also been told to me by others who have even stronger connections than he does. So either he's not "spreading lies," or somehow he conspired with a couple dozen people to back him up on the "lies."


What is your version then of what is the truth versus what is not? Considering you most likely wouldn't know what was actually said, it would be difficult to make a public call either way on fact versus fiction, yet that's what you seem to be doinjg based on whatever damning things were told to you in confidence. If you know something that was said relative to all of this, which you know is the truth, what is it?
For a Mod, you sure are confrontational. I thought you guys were locking this thread?

I locked it, but reopened it for another 24 hours...probably the *last* 24 hours. When I locked it earlier, I had no idea ORR was in the middle of a response! (sorry about that...). I think by tomorrow night, everyone who needed to have their say (on both sides) will have done so.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 08:00:50 PM by ♩♬ Fear 2 Stop ♯♫♩ » Logged

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« Reply #221 on: April 20, 2016, 07:58:54 PM »

.
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« Reply #222 on: April 20, 2016, 08:03:58 PM »

Okay, so I read this entire thread. People are alleging bullying and threatening, but nobody has given an example. Certainly someone would have something verbatim to back that up.

Seems to me that from recent conversations with AGD, his general knowledge of the Beach Boys, and just overall common sense, he knows that so much as scratching your butt sideways when it comes to *anything* to do with the Beach Boys will get you a letter from an attorney. I'm curious as to what exactly was said.

Frankly, I'm surprised he even was on this board recently given his disgust with people's attitudes and questioning his proven knowledge.

To be quite truthful, he has told me in confidence some pretty damning things about certain individuals within the Beach Boys' "camp" (and, to be fair, some pretty redeeming things as well); but there's something that I can say about that: everything he has ever told me has also been told to me by others who have even stronger connections than he does. So either he's not "spreading lies," or somehow he conspired with a couple dozen people to back him up on the "lies."


What is your version then of what is the truth versus what is not? Considering you most likely wouldn't know what was actually said, it would be difficult to make a public call either way on fact versus fiction, yet that's what you seem to be doinjg based on whatever damning things were told to you in confidence. If you know something that was said relative to all of this, which you know is the truth, what is it?
For a Mod, you sure are confrontational. I thought you guys were locking this thread?

Seems it's been unlocked to  slam the door.
seems to me fair is fair. If the mods want to see the evidence posted by 37!ws  then they need to post some of the evidence they're privy to.
And none of this hesaid/shesaid from the oregon dude either.

But reading on I see it was opened, seemingly, so that OSD could take some more swipes at AGD now that he's not here to answer.
Best to close it again now before it gets really nasty again

I actually meant ORR, not OSD. Acronyms give me hives.

Now, I got those  PMs too, the ones ORR was talking about, about him. So, are you calling *me* a liar? It's not he said/she said.

I myself have no interest in the evidence upside-down SMiLE! has. No offense to him, but I'm not exactly an outsider here.
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« Reply #223 on: April 20, 2016, 08:08:49 PM »

Doe's ban is all for the best. Something changed with Andrew in the past three years that made him a bully on the board.

I lost all respect for Andrew when he deleted me as a facebook friend because I didn't believe that Denni Leanne was really Dennis's daughter. We had been friends for some time when this happened. If someone does that to me over a lie then never apologizes, that's it. His ex girlfriend, can't remember her name, did the same thing. AGD thinks he's God's gift to women and Beach Boys fans. Karma is a bitch.

Oh Boo-fucking-Hoo. Let's hear it for the board's whining weenies

Look everybody! An AGD wannabe. Spoken in true Doeophonic pattern.  Evil
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myKe luHv, the most hated, embarrassing clown the world of music has ever witnessed.
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« Reply #224 on: April 20, 2016, 08:12:06 PM »

Doe's ban is all for the best. Something changed with Andrew in the past three years that made him a bully on the board.

I lost all respect for Andrew when he deleted me as a facebook friend because I didn't believe that Denni Leanne was really Dennis's daughter. We had been friends for some time when this happened. If someone does that to me over a lie then never apologizes, that's it. His ex girlfriend, can't remember her name, did the same thing. AGD thinks he's God's gift to women and Beach Boys fans. Karma is a bitch.

Oh Boo-fucking-Hoo. Let's hear it for the board's whining weenies

Look everybody! An AGD wannabe. Spoken in true Doeophonic pattern.  Evil
Hey, you have your wanna be in Smile Brian. Fair is fair. Wink
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The Brianista Prayer

Oh Brian
Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
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