Lifetime ban on AGD

[Robbie Mac]

2drbeachboy: I usually agree with you but not in this case. Secretly telling bad stuff about someone while being all nice in public is cowardly imo.

Word.

Like him or not, OSD was always upfront about his biases, but he was never two-faced about his beliefs.

[Empire Of Love]

I still say, since it was private and the person it was sent to was not threatened in any way, then it should have been taken care of privately. Mike Love and his wife have had some very nasty stuff written on this board and less severe action was taken. While I do not condone spreading false and incorrect information, it just seems that the punishment was harsher for a PM than an actual board infraction of the same type. That stuff was put out there for any and all to see.

Apples and oranges.  Mike is bashed for his own words and actions.  No one is making things up about Mike and no one is posting information that was supposed to be private.  The allegation against AGD is that he spread false information and information that sounds like it was quite private.  Both instances have nasty in common, but then the similarities end.  AGD has publicly been nasty on this board for years and has not suffered the consequences to the same degree others have.  I am not presently objecting to this prior inequality, but to compare the nastiness of, say, OSD to what it is alleged that ADG did is completely unfair and reeks of bias on the part of everyone here making this absurd comparison.  Go and re-read the initial post, setting aside your bias, and you will see clearly there is no comparison.

The punishment seems harsh?  So you agree that the punishment should fit the crime.  But we are all largely ignorant of the crime.  How then do you conclude that the punishment was too harsh?  To draw this conclusion is nothing less than to accuse the three mods and board admin of either being inept or of lying.

Regarding handling the matter privately, three mods and the board admin (who almost never makes an appearance here, yet he found this particular situation warranted a statement) felt strongly enough to make the ban public.  This tells me that either all four people are complete fools or the infractions are serious enough to warrant this kind of action.  Consider this action was predicated upon full agreement between four people, at least two claiming friendship with AGD, and yet this is the course of action they chose.  They all surely realize the implications of their actions and chose to do it this way anyway.  On the other hand we who know almost nothing about what occurred suppose to know better how this should have been handled?  I understand we are all permitted to have an opinion but an opinion from complete ignorance fails to persuade me.

In addition, AGD has been given special treatment for at least as long as I have been a member of this board.  Perhaps this warrants special consideration in the manner of his ban.  With great power, as they say, comes great responsibility.  If you take the mods (and admin) decision and words at face value, AGD has abused this power for a long, long time.  That being the case a public ban does not seem out of line.  Until we have more details, and I doubt we ever will, I accept the unified voice of the mods/admin as an accurate representation of what occurred (over the better part of a decade no less) and that it warranted a public ban.  We may have questions and we may choose to ask them publicly, but to suppose from ignorance that it should have been handled differently or that the punishment was too harsh is the height of hubris.

EoL

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I still say, since it was private and the person it was sent to was not threatened in any way, then it should have been taken care of privately. Mike Love and his wife have had some very nasty stuff written on this board and less severe action was taken. While I do not condone spreading false and incorrect information, it just seems that the punishment was harsher for a PM than an actual board infraction of the same type. That stuff was put out there for any and all to see.

It was that *and* the PM harassment issue; it wasn't just the one thing.

OSD was villified for what he said and did get banned for awhile.  It is worth noting, OSD didn't develop a rep for sending threatening msgs to people with whom he disagreed.

Just sayin'.

Correct.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I still say, since it was private and the person it was sent to was not threatened in any way, then it should have been taken care of privately. Mike Love and his wife have had some very nasty stuff written on this board and less severe action was taken. While I do not condone spreading false and incorrect information, it just seems that the punishment was harsher for a PM than an actual board infraction of the same type. That stuff was put out there for any and all to see.

Apples and oranges.  Mike is bashed for his own words and actions.  No one is making things up about Mike and no one is posting information that was supposed to be private.  The allegation against AGD is that he spread false information and information that sounds like it was quite private.  Both instances have nasty in common, but then the similarities end.  AGD has publicly been nasty on this board for years and has not suffered the consequences to the same degree others have.  I am not presently objecting to this prior inequality, but to compare the nastiness of, say, OSD to what it is alleged that ADG did is completely unfair and reeks of bias on the part of everyone here making this absurd comparison.  Go and re-read the initial post, setting aside your bias, and you will see clearly there is no comparison.

The punishment seems harsh?  So you agree that the punishment should fit the crime.  But we are all largely ignorant of the crime.  How then do you conclude that the punishment was too harsh?  To draw this conclusion is nothing less than to accuse the three mods and board admin of either being inept or of lying.

Regarding handling the matter privately, three mods and the board admin (who almost never makes an appearance here, yet he found this particular situation warranted a statement) felt strongly enough to make the ban public.  This tells me that either all four people are complete fools or the infractions are serious enough to warrant this kind of action.  Consider this action was predicated upon full agreement between four people, at least two claiming friendship with AGD, and yet this is the course of action they chose.  They all surely realize the implications of their actions and chose to do it this way anyway.  On the other hand we who know almost nothing about what occurred suppose to know better how this should have been handled?  I understand we are all permitted to have an opinion but an opinion from complete ignorance fails to persuade me.

In addition, AGD has been given special treatment for at least as long as I have been a member of this board.  Perhaps this warrants special consideration in the manner of his ban.  With great power, as they say, comes great responsibility.  If you take the mods (and admin) decision and words at face value, AGD has abused this power for a long, long time.  That being the case a public ban does not seem out of line.  Until we have more details, and I doubt we ever will, I accept the unified voice of the mods/admin as an accurate representation of what occurred (over the better part of a decade no less) and that it warranted a public ban.  We may have questions and we may choose to ask them publicly, but to suppose from ignorance that it should have been handled differently or that the punishment was too harsh is the height of hubris.

EoL

Thank you...did a better job of summing it up than I did.

[Angua]

A few things I want to clarify from my previous post.

- I inadvertently made it sound like I got a libelous/nasty PM from Andrew G. Doe...which is not the case. What I got was a message that had false information in it. I don't know whether Doe's sources are the ones giving him bad intel or what. But regardless, I wanted to clarify that. Doe was nothing but cordial to me in PMs. But his intel in that instance (relating to Melinda and her story) was indeed wrong.

- Angua, apologies for misunderstanding you. With all the ridiculous bullshit that takes place here, your sarcasm sounded like something that could've been said seriously by a handful of other members. Sorry again!

No apology necessary - I just don't want everyone to think I'm that stupid! :-)

[drbeachboy]

I still say, since it was private and the person it was sent to was not threatened in any way, then it should have been taken care of privately. Mike Love and his wife have had some very nasty stuff written on this board and less severe action was taken. While I do not condone spreading false and incorrect information, it just seems that the punishment was harsher for a PM than an actual board infraction of the same type. That stuff was put out there for any and all to see.

Apples and oranges.  Mike is bashed for his own words and actions.  No one is making things up about Mike and no one is posting information that was supposed to be private.  The allegation against AGD is that he spread false information and information that sounds like it was quite private.  Both instances have nasty in common, but then the similarities end.  AGD has publicly been nasty on this board for years and has not suffered the consequences to the same degree others have.  I am not presently objecting to this prior inequality, but to compare the nastiness of, say, OSD to what it is alleged that ADG did is completely unfair and reeks of bias on the part of everyone here making this absurd comparison.  Go and re-read the initial post, setting aside your bias, and you will see clearly there is no comparison.

The punishment seems harsh?  So you agree that the punishment should fit the crime.  But we are all largely ignorant of the crime.  How then do you conclude that the punishment was too harsh?  To draw this conclusion is nothing less than to accuse the three mods and board admin of either being inept or of lying.

Regarding handling the matter privately, three mods and the board admin (who almost never makes an appearance here, yet he found this particular situation warranted a statement) felt strongly enough to make the ban public.  This tells me that either all four people are complete fools or the infractions are serious enough to warrant this kind of action.  Consider this action was predicated upon full agreement between four people, at least two claiming friendship with AGD, and yet this is the course of action they chose.  They all surely realize the implications of their actions and chose to do it this way anyway.  On the other hand we who know almost nothing about what occurred suppose to know better how this should have been handled?  I understand we are all permitted to have an opinion but an opinion from complete ignorance fails to persuade me.

In addition, AGD has been given special treatment for at least as long as I have been a member of this board.  Perhaps this warrants special consideration in the manner of his ban.  With great power, as they say, comes great responsibility.  If you take the mods (and admin) decision and words at face value, AGD has abused this power for a long, long time.  That being the case a public ban does not seem out of line.  Until we have more details, and I doubt we ever will, I accept the unified voice of the mods/admin as an accurate representation of what occurred (over the better part of a decade no less) and that it warranted a public ban.  We may have questions and we may choose to ask them publicly, but to suppose from ignorance that it should have been handled differently or that the punishment was too harsh is the height of hubris.

EoL

First off, you can't much harsher than a lifetime ban. I know what OSD did and that bordered on or could have been a lifetime ban. As I see it, something done in private like this is different than posting publicly. Posting the Jacqueline stuff in public is far worse than if he sent it privately. Again, in both cases what was said was wrong, but I am seeing this more about how the information was disseminated. Let me see if I got this right; something bad is said about Mike Love & family, then a finite ban. If it is about Brian Wilson & family, then an infinite ban. Is that about right?

[Emily]

One problem with this conversation is that most of us don't really know the details of what happened - so it's a matter of trusting the mods and Charles LePage, or not.

Having said that, I don't know what OSD has said about Mike Love's wife. I didn't see it. But, I think there's a real difference between making a concerted effort to lead people to believe something that you know isn't true and 'saying something bad' about someone.

So if Andrew Doe did the former, which is my understanding, that's not comparable to the latter. Or, if it is compared, it suffers from the comparison.

So I don't quite agree with EoL - it's not apples and oranges - it's an over-ripe kind of icky orange vs. a toxic bacteria-ridden orange.

I'm not necessarily saying that is the difference, but it's the difference between my understanding of what Andrew is alleged to have done and my understanding of what OSD is alleged to have done. If my understanding is wrong, then my analogy may not apply.

[drbeachboy]

I have been harping on this stuff for years in here. Stay out of the Beach Boys personal lives. Had this been heeded, then none of this would have taken place with AGD now or earlier with OSD.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Let me see if I got this right; something bad is said about Mike Love & family, then a finite ban. If it is about Brian Wilson & family, then an infinite ban.

With OSD, it was his first suspension (and it lasted for about a year). With Andrew, it was his 3rd. And again, it was also the other PMs he was sending, which resulted in at least two people either asking me to delete their account or just not posting ever again.

[You Kane, You Commanded, You Conquered]

The thing is that I doubt anyone would believe anything OSD could say about Mike's personal life, in the case of AGD he was using his credibility to fool new members with baseless information presented as insider info, and several took the bait either from AGD, or people who had gotten that information from AGD, as can be seen in the BW book thread.

[drbeachboy]

The thing is that I doubt anyone would believe anything OSD could say about Mike's personal life, in the case of AGD he was using his credibility to fool new members with baseless information presented as insider info, and several took the bait either from AGD, or people who had gotten that information from AGD, as can be seen in the BW book thread.

Maybe, to those of us who know his antics, but it wasn't just about Mike. It was about his wife and daughter.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

The thing is that I doubt anyone would believe anything OSD could say about Mike's personal life, in the case of AGD he was using his credibility to fool new members with baseless information presented as insider info, and several took the bait either from AGD, or people who had gotten that information from AGD, as can be seen in the BW book thread.

Maybe, to those of us who know his antics, but it wasn't just about Mike. It was about his wife and daughter.

Which is why he was suspended as long as he was for a first time offense  (which was normally 7 days- we have since moved away from the 3 strike system). He has not done it again, but if he had, it would be permanent. You might have forgotten, but I went pretty ballistic at that point.

[You Kane, You Commanded, You Conquered]

The thing is that I doubt anyone would believe anything OSD could say about Mike's personal life, in the case of AGD he was using his credibility to fool new members with baseless information presented as insider info, and several took the bait either from AGD, or people who had gotten that information from AGD, as can be seen in the BW book thread.

Maybe, to those of us who know his antics, but it wasn't just about Mike. It was about his wife and daughter.

But still would anyone believe it? OSD is not just notorious here, go over to any Mike Love video on YouTube, and you're bound to find a comment by him there, usually with someone dismissing him as a troll. Anybody can tell that OSD has a strong hatred about Mike, so anything he says about him or his family can be easily dismissed but, according to Charles, AGD was posting false and harmful info about Melinda and her children, but he had the appearance of trustworthiness due to his extensive BBs knowledge.

[drbeachboy]

The thing is that I doubt anyone would believe anything OSD could say about Mike's personal life, in the case of AGD he was using his credibility to fool new members with baseless information presented as insider info, and several took the bait either from AGD, or people who had gotten that information from AGD, as can be seen in the BW book thread.

Maybe, to those of us who know his antics, but it wasn't just about Mike. It was about his wife and daughter.

But still would anyone believe it? OSD is not just notorious here, go over to any Mike Love video on YouTube, and you're bound to find a comment by him there, usually with someone dismissing him as a troll. Anybody can tell that OSD has a strong hatred about Mike, so anything he says about him or his family can be easily dismissed but, according to Charles, AGD was posting false and harmful info about Melinda and her children, and trying to pass it off as coming from trustworthy sources, along with his own reputation as the go to guy for BBs knowledge.

I know OSD is looked upon as a dumb oaf in here, but let me tell you, he knows his sh*t and he knows exactly what he is doing. He's dumb as a fox, as the saying goes. As I keep trying to tell people, I agree that what he is accused of is wrong. I am not denying that. My beef is with "does the punishment fit the crime?" Strikes trump the actual offense here, as I understand it. So, the lifetime ban is due to Strike 3 Called and not what he is being accused of. OSD did a similar thing, only publicly and received a lesser sentence because he was 0-1 at the plate at the time of his postings.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Strikes trump the actual offense here, as I understand it. So, the lifetime ban is due to Strike 3 Called and not what he is being accused of. OSD did a similar thing, only publicly and received a lesser sentence because he was 0-1 at the plate at the time of his postings.

You understand incorrectly. The OSD incident was a few years ago; things have changed since then (and the rules have been updated as of Dec of last year) . Heck, I'm the only mod still around from back then! I guarantee you things would've been different if it happened now. I know that may not mean much coming from me apparently, but it's the truth.

I wonder if OSD/AGD's punishments had been reversed....would we still be having this same conversation?

[drbeachboy]

Strikes trump the actual offense here, as I understand it. So, the lifetime ban is due to Strike 3 Called and not what he is being accused of. OSD did a similar thing, only publicly and received a lesser sentence because he was 0-1 at the plate at the time of his postings.

You understand incorrectly. The OSD incident was a few years ago; things have changed since then (and the rules have been updated as of Dec of last year) . Heck, I'm the only mod still around from back then! I guarantee you things would've been different if it happened now. I know that may not mean much coming from me apparently, but it's the truth.

I wonder if OSD/AGD's punishments had been reversed....would we still be having this same conversation?

Billy, I am looking at this Mod decision as a group thing. I am not calling out any one person. Honestly, I would have no issues with banning OSD. He rarely adds to any thread in here, but derails quite a few. I make no bones about my dislike of what he does and/or adds to this place. And I do believe you when you say things would have been handled differently had it happened since the rules changed. Just so I am straight on this; you are telling me that if AGD had zero or only one strike against him, then he would have received a finite ban, instead of a lifetime ban?

[Jay]

No, because OSD is not respected and revered as AGD was/is.

[drbeachboy]

No, because OSD is not respected and revered as AGD was/is.

Oh, so status makes a difference too. The old Preferential Treatment banning. I got it!

[SMiLE Brian]

OSD's only target is Mike Love, not bullying other members like AGD did on trivia and band opinions.

[Jay]

No, because OSD is not respected and revered as AGD was/is.

Oh, so status makes a difference too. The old Preferential Treatment banning. I got it!

I'm saying that we wouldn't be talking about it, of even have a thread about it if it were OSD, because OSD isn't known as an "elder" who's been involved in the BB's community for 40+ years.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Just so I am straight on this; you are telling me that if AGD had zero or only one strike against him, then he would have received a finite ban, instead of a lifetime ban?

No, they both would've gotten lifetimes.

And it's hard for me *not* to take it personally; I feel like I'm being attacked, and that I could walk on water right this minute and still get crap. I'm this close to saying the hell with this board.

For the record, I approached GF and lowbacca about this, and after the 3 of us talking, I approached Chuck for a second opinion. We were all in agreement, but I had done the initial groundwork. So now that *that* is out there...everybody still feel the same way?

[Jay]

Besides, OSD is often looked at as a troll anyway.

[drbeachboy]

No, because OSD is not respected and revered as AGD was/is.

Oh, so status makes a difference too. The old Preferential Treatment banning. I got it!

I'm saying that we wouldn't be talking about it, of even have a thread about it if it were OSD, because OSD isn't known as an "elder" who's been involved in the BB's community for 40+ years.

Gotcha, and so true.

[Jay]

No, because OSD is not respected and revered as AGD was/is.

Oh, so status makes a difference too. The old Preferential Treatment banning. I got it!

I'm saying that we wouldn't be talking about it, of even have a thread about it if it were OSD, because OSD isn't known as an "elder" who's been involved in the BB's community for 40+ years.

Gotcha, and so true.

Just like if Ian, or c-man, or Jon Stebbins were banned. People would get their panties in a twist simply because they are "known names" in the bb's world.

[drbeachboy]

Just so I am straight on this; you are telling me that if AGD had zero or only one strike against him, then he would have received a finite ban, instead of a lifetime ban?

No, they both would've gotten lifetimes.

And it's hard for me *not* to take it personally; I feel like I'm being attacked, and that I could walk on water right this minute and still get crap. I'm this close to saying the hell with this board.

I will tell you why from my perspective. He is one of a handful of people here that when he posts, it has meaning to the thread. Usually, no horseshitting around. You can depend on getting a meaningful answer from him. There will be no one here on a regular basis to provide that function. That is a very big deal to me and should be a very big deal to the board. From all my years on the net, this is the only place that HAD a resident historian to draw from.

Don't feel attacked. You keep saying that the four of you made the final decision together. On the whole, I don't like what was done, but I also understand that you guys have a job to do.