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Author Topic: Lifetime ban on AGD  (Read 273951 times)
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Wirestone
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« Reply #75 on: April 19, 2016, 10:15:38 AM »

I think this thread is somewhat unfair.

People are saying that AGD did ... things. Things that weren't nice. They're not things that any of us can see, though, because they were sent via private message.

I respect that the moderators took the actions they needed to take. But a whole thread of speculating about and throwing brickbats at someone who isn't able to defend himself on the forum seems off to me.
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« Reply #76 on: April 19, 2016, 10:30:44 AM »

Weirdly, I agree with almost everyone, though they seem to disagree with each other.
I agree that Mr. Doe was a huge asset to this board over the many years he was here. Go back through threads and he shows up with hard data that settles or informs complicated questions. He was, in some ways, the backbone of the board's knowledge base and I was very pleased to have the opportunity to interact with someone whose work I respect. I also never personally had a negative interaction with him. And am unhappy to hear he's unwell.
I'm also not a hard-and-fast rules person generally. I think enforcing rules should be conditional and I don't think it's unreasonable for rules to be bent, as I understand they had been in the past, for someone who brings so much to the board. Though, of course every effort should be made to bring even the most solid or impressive contributor in line with the rules.
But, there's a point where rules can't be bent anymore. If Mr. Doe was intentionally spreading malicious misinformation (an idea that surprises me but I've been surprised by people before, and if all the mods and Mr. LePage agree on something that was so against their interests I would find it even more surprising that it's not true) then that's a step too far.
So, it's an enormous shame and something that I wish could be reconciled in some way, but given the circumstances, I think the decision had to be what it was.
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Sjöman
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« Reply #77 on: April 19, 2016, 10:34:25 AM »

To be honest this never should have even been a thread. Moderators have never started threads about anyone's banning until now. Moderators also don't owe anyone an explanation for their decision making. Make the decision, apologize for nothing, and move on. Trying to complicate the matter further isn't worth it.

But a whole thread of speculating about and throwing brickbats at someone who isn't able to defend himself on the forum seems off to me.

Well, had the mods banned him without explaining why, or even announce it, there would have been endless speculation about the reason. And hadn't they left this thread open for discussion, someone would've started another thread about it. Better to keep the discussion in the same thread as the explanation.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2016, 11:11:25 AM by Sjöman » Logged
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« Reply #78 on: April 19, 2016, 10:36:42 AM »

Sorry to hear this news.
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pixletwin
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« Reply #79 on: April 19, 2016, 10:38:07 AM »

I looked through AGD's posting history and I didn't see anything out of the ordinary or ban worthy. What happened? (I have a feeling I am not the only one who feels out of the loop)
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« Reply #80 on: April 19, 2016, 10:44:10 AM »

This happened.

A lifetime ban was imposed on AGD. This decision was unanimous by all three mods and was agreed with by the SS board administrator. There are multiple reasons for this ban. Multiple posters complained of bullying and provided backup support. This involved a long term misuse of the PM function of this board. AGD has utilized the PM function to bully those he disagreed with, in some cases those who posted content that he disagreed with, up to and including labeling them trolls and threats that he would personally have them banned. Over the period of the better part of a decade, there have been contacts made to new members, always through PM and not public, using false information, rumors, and innuendo leveled against Brian and Melinda Wilson, their children and associates, as well as band members, information which was presented as coming from inside sources yet information which has been proven false.  AGD used his status as a respected historian to present his stories and innuendo as fact, backing it up with what were called impeccable or unimpeachable sources. One example was a suggestion that one or several posters through the years were really Melinda Wilson, a charge easily proven false yet had apparently come from an impeccable source. This has been ongoing to the point where the posters contacted with this kind of information and worse, even more personal issues involving the Wilson family and various band members, was offered as inside information from not just a respected source but impeccable sources beyond that, and there is no way to tell how many people believed or continue to believe false information. Some of it turned out to be not only false, but potentially libelous.
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Mr. Verlander
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« Reply #81 on: April 19, 2016, 10:50:53 AM »

I wonder if he was given the chance to defend himself? Or was it that cut and dry? I'm not asking for specifics, just wondering how bad something has to be where you get the lifetime ban, and not get to defend yourself?
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« Reply #82 on: April 19, 2016, 11:00:43 AM »

This wasn't an isolated incident

Quote
Well, had the mods banned him without explaining why, or even announce it, there would have been endless speculation about the reason. And hadn't they left this thread open for discussion, someone would've started another thread about it. Better to keep the discussion in the same thread as the explanation.

Agreed.
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bgas
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« Reply #83 on: April 19, 2016, 11:04:39 AM »

.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2016, 07:52:37 PM by bgas » Logged

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« Reply #84 on: April 19, 2016, 11:09:10 AM »

This message board will not last forever.  It is, however, bigger than one person's contributions.   
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pixletwin
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« Reply #85 on: April 19, 2016, 11:11:33 AM »

@bgas: exactly.

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drbeachboy
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« Reply #86 on: April 19, 2016, 11:13:51 AM »

So, I am guessing then that bootleg trade/share talk better cease in PM's, as well. It will get you banned on the board for being an illegal activity and I assume if someone shares it with the Mods it makes it just illegal as say, libel.
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« Reply #87 on: April 19, 2016, 11:16:54 AM »

This message board will not last forever.  It is, however, bigger than one person's contributions.   
It may well be that way for you, but AGD was/is the single most person in this place supplying the facts. And that is a fact. None of the experts post in here nearly as much as Andrew has.
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Thou Art In Hawthorne,
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Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
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« Reply #88 on: April 19, 2016, 11:21:51 AM »

I've often thought that Andrew should have been a mod. His board presence was that strong.
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« Reply #89 on: April 19, 2016, 11:42:13 AM »

I've often thought that Andrew should have been a mod. His board presence was that strong.

Strong board pressence does not equal qualified moderator, otherwise OSD and SB should be qualified as well.
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« Reply #90 on: April 19, 2016, 12:35:23 PM »

I don't think that anybody can say for a fact that whatever he did wasn't ban-worthy. On the surface it may seem outlandish, but if he was doing something truly sinister, than they did what they had to do. Nobody knows for sure, except AGD and the mods. The biggest mistake they've seemed to have made is not being a bit harder on him in the past when they should've been. Billy admitted as much.
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« Reply #91 on: April 19, 2016, 12:37:44 PM »

I banned him twice during my time as moderator; this must have been the third strike.
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« Reply #92 on: April 19, 2016, 12:40:04 PM »

It was.
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« Reply #93 on: April 19, 2016, 12:42:10 PM »

Nothing else needs explanation. The mods did what they had to do. They were completely within their protocol.
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« Reply #94 on: April 19, 2016, 12:48:12 PM »

I've often thought that Andrew should have been a mod. His board presence was that strong.

Absolutely not. This has nothing to do with a person's historical knowledge. This has to do with temperament and behavior (libelous behavior) which goes over the line.

Look. I still find it incredulous that Andrew did the things that were detailed in Chuck's initial post. As Emily mentioned, I've been surprised before and misread people before, so anything is possible.

In light of his exhaustive contributions to the world of BB research, it stands to reason that he must have engaged in activity which proved so libelous, so abhorrent, that it rendered his legacy moot. As it stands, I take the opinions of the mods at face value; Chuck needed to do what he had to do. I thought Andrew was a better man than that, but apparently he's deeply, sadly flawed. I hope he takes the opportunity to do some badly needed soul searching and come out a better man. He's become this generation's Brad Elliott.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2016, 12:50:09 PM by Doo Dah » Logged

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« Reply #95 on: April 19, 2016, 12:49:08 PM »

Nothing else needs explanation. The mods did what they had to do. They were completely within their protocol.
Well, then the one thing that this exercise has proved, at least to me, is that Private Messages are NOT private. I will never use that feature in here again.
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The Brianista Prayer

Oh Brian
Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
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« Reply #96 on: April 19, 2016, 12:59:05 PM »

Well, then the one thing that this exercise has proved, at least to me, is that Private Messages are NOT private. I will never use that feature in here again.

They are as private as the two parties involved in each private conversation allow them to be.  And, while they are a means to share information that shouldn't be shared publicly, they aren't a means to say things that shouldn't be shared anywhere.

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« Reply #97 on: April 19, 2016, 01:22:47 PM »

Well, then the one thing that this exercise has proved, at least to me, is that Private Messages are NOT private. I will never use that feature in here again.

They are as private as the two parties involved in each private conversation allow them to be.  And, while they are a means to share information that shouldn't be shared publicly, they aren't a means to say things that shouldn't be shared anywhere.


Well, in the context that the Mods asked us to use them, then yes, sometimes they can be things that wouldn't be shared here on the board, which is why they asked us to use PM's. Had this been done using email would you ban for the same offense?
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The Brianista Prayer

Oh Brian
Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
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« Reply #98 on: April 19, 2016, 02:03:41 PM »

Well, then the one thing that this exercise has proved, at least to me, is that Private Messages are NOT private. I will never use that feature in here again.

They are as private as the two parties involved in each private conversation allow them to be.  And, while they are a means to share information that shouldn't be shared publicly, they aren't a means to say things that shouldn't be shared anywhere.


Well, in the context that the Mods asked us to use them, then yes, sometimes they can be things that wouldn't be shared here on the board, which is why they asked us to use PM's. Had this been done using email would you ban for the same offense?

The mods are there to moderate Smiley Smile not everyone's lives.
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« Reply #99 on: April 19, 2016, 02:08:26 PM »

Doe's ban is all for the best. Something changed with Andrew in the past three years that made him a bully on the board.
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