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Author Topic: The December 1964 event.  (Read 12406 times)
Forrest Gump
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« Reply #150 on: May 03, 2016, 05:18:58 PM »

AGD and Lee Dempsey are both gone? I also saw a reference that Mujan no longer posts.

Truly sad. The board will surely suffer as a result.

That's not all, I think. Haven't seen bgas since April 28th and Steve Mayo's magazine thread in the media section has gone belly up.
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Ian
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« Reply #151 on: May 03, 2016, 08:10:22 PM »

I think people will continue to post if the topic is interesting. I have no interest in continually discussing why people post or don't, etc.  if an interesting topic is brought up I am sure lee and Steve and others will comment occasionally
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Ian
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« Reply #152 on: May 03, 2016, 08:23:32 PM »

By the way I recently found a May 1965 article in the little rock gazette in which a reader asked the editor why the bbs didn't appear on December 20 1964. The editor stated that one of the beach boys was too ill to perform. Intriguing but without more info can't say what it adds to the story.  The question is did the bbs play the Tulsa show on December 19? I've never found a cancelation notice and I once searched through the December 1964 Tulsa world looking. If that was canceled than maybe Brian was really not in a mood to go and stalled (forcing cancelation of Tulsa and little rock and postponing the Dallas show scheduled for December 22 to the 26. Finally he was talked into it and boarded flight to Houston. But this scenario is just a hypothesis.  Without more evidence I just can't say what happened between December 19 and 26 1964. The trouble is that we hardly ever hear from eyewitnesses who attended specific bb shows.  If a fan who attended these shows posted it would solve it.
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Ian
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« Reply #153 on: May 03, 2016, 08:29:02 PM »

What I mean to say is that the Tulsa, Houston and Dallas newspapers just happened to have basically ignored these shows (other than an advertisement for the Tulsa show) so we can't get any more info unless a person who attended the shows happens to come forward
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Adult Child
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« Reply #154 on: April 11, 2017, 12:09:06 AM »

Bringing up an old topic, but just my opinions:

Brian didn't have a "nervous breakdown" that day in 1964. He had an extreme panic attack, a momentously emotional night. All these things that had been building up inside of him for however long came to the fore. A "nervous breakdown" is much more serious. He had an extremely emotional episode, followed by a revelation, followed by 2 years of the greatest productivity of his life. It was with the collapse of SMiLE that he more than likely suffered a nervous breakdown of sorts. Not some massive nervous breakdown. No one who had that much control over anything as much as Brian had control over his music at that time could possibly be seriously mentally ill. He was seriously mentally ill in the early 70s. It was a big enough breakdown though that it crushed his will, more or less. And to him (or anyone), that is equal to a nervous breakdown in terms of personal pain. My guess (for whatever it's worth) is that he was starting to deteriorate pretty bad by 1972 when he recorded 'Mount Vernon & Fairway'. When his dad died, it probably took over him rapidly.

I say all this with the utmost respect for Brian, and people with mental problems. I only say it because the idea that he had a "nervous breakdown" in 1964 makes no sense realistically. Perhaps a life-changing panic attack, but not a "nervous breakdown". I very much believe (I hate to say it but I do believe it) Brian probably made up the "nervous breakdown" thing because he was aware of the seriousness of his emotional distress (as he would be obviously) and no one else around him cared as much so no one would take it seriously enough if he just said it was a "panic attack". It makes perfect sense, and there's nothing wrong with that. That just makes a lot more sense than the idea that he actually had a nervous breakdown in 1964.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 12:14:07 AM by Adult Child » Logged

"In my opinion it makes Pet Sounds stink - that's how good it is!" - Dennis Wilson

"Our records were really very good. We're very talented and we know how to do what we do." - Carl Wilson

"The thing is, I'm just pooping along. Some people buzz along. I poop along. I just can't help it; that's the way I am. I'm just a pooper." - Brian Wilson
Kid Presentable
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« Reply #155 on: April 11, 2017, 12:18:55 AM »

I agree with you.  I view it as a series of smaller setbacks over a long period of time that at the end show a large toll has been taken, with the most damaging one probably being his dad dying.
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Emily
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« Reply #156 on: April 13, 2017, 07:14:05 PM »

Bringing up an old topic, but just my opinions:

Brian didn't have a "nervous breakdown" that day in 1964. He had an extreme panic attack, a momentously emotional night. All these things that had been building up inside of him for however long came to the fore. A "nervous breakdown" is much more serious. He had an extremely emotional episode, followed by a revelation, followed by 2 years of the greatest productivity of his life. It was with the collapse of SMiLE that he more than likely suffered a nervous breakdown of sorts. Not some massive nervous breakdown. No one who had that much control over anything as much as Brian had control over his music at that time could possibly be seriously mentally ill. He was seriously mentally ill in the early 70s. It was a big enough breakdown though that it crushed his will, more or less. And to him (or anyone), that is equal to a nervous breakdown in terms of personal pain. My guess (for whatever it's worth) is that he was starting to deteriorate pretty bad by 1972 when he recorded 'Mount Vernon & Fairway'. When his dad died, it probably took over him rapidly.

I say all this with the utmost respect for Brian, and people with mental problems. I only say it because the idea that he had a "nervous breakdown" in 1964 makes no sense realistically. Perhaps a life-changing panic attack, but not a "nervous breakdown". I very much believe (I hate to say it but I do believe it) Brian probably made up the "nervous breakdown" thing because he was aware of the seriousness of his emotional distress (as he would be obviously) and no one else around him cared as much so no one would take it seriously enough if he just said it was a "panic attack". It makes perfect sense, and there's nothing wrong with that. That just makes a lot more sense than the idea that he actually had a nervous breakdown in 1964.
I don't disagree with you except for the "Brian probably made up the 'nervous breakdown' thing..." I don't imagine 'panic attack' was within his lexicon. It was not a common term and at that time, 'nervous breakdown' was a broadly used term describing a variety of episode types that now have distinct names.
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Adult Child
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« Reply #157 on: April 13, 2017, 08:11:46 PM »

I don't disagree with you except for the "Brian probably made up the 'nervous breakdown' thing..." I don't imagine 'panic attack' was within his lexicon. It was not a common term and at that time, 'nervous breakdown' was a broadly used term describing a variety of episode types that now have distinct names.

Thank you for telling me, I didn't know that. That changes my "Brian made it up" opinion.
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"In my opinion it makes Pet Sounds stink - that's how good it is!" - Dennis Wilson

"Our records were really very good. We're very talented and we know how to do what we do." - Carl Wilson

"The thing is, I'm just pooping along. Some people buzz along. I poop along. I just can't help it; that's the way I am. I'm just a pooper." - Brian Wilson
Amy B.
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« Reply #158 on: April 14, 2017, 07:03:01 PM »

I don't disagree with you except for the "Brian probably made up the 'nervous breakdown' thing..." I don't imagine 'panic attack' was within his lexicon. It was not a common term and at that time, 'nervous breakdown' was a broadly used term describing a variety of episode types that now have distinct names.

Agreed. I think he was just using the wrong term, or didn't know what term to use. I think  "nervous breakdown" is something where you lose the ambition or goals or whatever it is that you had prior. A panic attack, while terrifying, and while possibly part of a series of panic attacks, is more of an acute episode in reaction to stress or trauma, and it may be a sign or symptom of serious anxiety, but by itself it's probably not life-altering.

I brought this up before on one of the Dennis threads, but I wasn't aware until recently that Dennis had a series of panic attacks as a teenager and young man. Dennis having anxiety doesn't really fit in with his persona as the rebellious Beach Boy, but he, too, was deeply affected by having Murry for a father. I suppose Brian's famous panic attack is discussed more because it was the catalyst for his decision to stay home and therefore part of BBs lore.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2017, 07:04:22 PM by Amy B. » Logged
Kid Presentable
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« Reply #159 on: April 15, 2017, 12:56:54 AM »

This is sort of a sidepoint and not directed towards anyone in this thread or on this board- but I wish that this event was viewed by the average person less as fitting within a narrative of someone who has mental problems having a mental episode, and more as a normal consequence of a young man being burdened with the equivalent of 3 or 4 jobs and eventually not being able to handle the situation they were in. 

Sometimes mental illness is a completely physiological thing.  But I find that often it is some combination of the hand you were dealt and the game in which you are forced to play it.  Not stressing the latter enough bums me out in this instance because I think Brian was actually really tough in this era but that isn't recognized as much outside of circles such as this one.  It is definitely a symptom of how things were in that era regarding mental illness, which makes this such a fascinating story.  But unfortunately it is also a symptom of our continued inability to completely get it right in present times. 
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Amy B.
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« Reply #160 on: April 15, 2017, 10:13:22 AM »

This is sort of a sidepoint and not directed towards anyone in this thread or on this board- but I wish that this event was viewed by the average person less as fitting within a narrative of someone who has mental problems having a mental episode, and more as a normal consequence of a young man being burdened with the equivalent of 3 or 4 jobs and eventually not being able to handle the situation they were in. 

Sometimes mental illness is a completely physiological thing.  But I find that often it is some combination of the hand you were dealt and the game in which you are forced to play it.  Not stressing the latter enough bums me out in this instance because I think Brian was actually really tough in this era but that isn't recognized as much outside of circles such as this one.  It is definitely a symptom of how things were in that era regarding mental illness, which makes this such a fascinating story.  But unfortunately it is also a symptom of our continued inability to completely get it right in present times. 

I'm not a mental health expert, but I agree with you that a panic attack is not in and of itself a symptom of mental illness. I myself had a series of panic attacks several years ago when I was working two jobs and under a lot of stress. They are more common than people think, so while the plane incident is discussed in almost romantic terms as some sort of turning point in Brian's mental health, I think it's quite likely that anyone in Brian's position in 1964 would have suffered for it, and a panic attack wouldn't mean that they were on the road to a lifetime of the sort of severe mental illness that Brian developed. That it happened in such a public way probably made it seem worse, but when you have a panic attack, there's no way to hide it.
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