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Author Topic: 2016 - A New Low?  (Read 10476 times)
KDS
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« on: April 13, 2016, 10:42:25 AM »

So, we're a little more than 1/4 way through 2016. 

I'm not a fan by any means of modern Top 40, but I think we've hit a new low. 

Earlier this year, Miley Cyrus released a song called "Baby Talk" where she mostly talks through the "song" using mostly obscenities to some poor guy who has the misfortune to be dating her.  The chorus is mostly incomprehensible moaning. 

Here is it if anybody is curious

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfwJA0f0UTg

The other is a new one by Rihanna called "Work."  It sounds like she walked into the studio either high, after she just woke up, or right after a dental appointment.  She mumbles her way through the song, which lacks any real melody or reason to exist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL1UzIK-flA

I know Top 40 gets a tad worse every year, but have we reached the point where pop stars aren't even trying anymore?  I couldn't stand their music, as least Fergie, Katy Perry, and Maroon 5 seemed to try. 

Have the pop stars stopped putting in the effort?  Or do music buyers just care so little about quality that they'll buy anything?
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Emily
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« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2016, 11:34:04 AM »

What is it that you object to? The lyrics? The vocals? The music/instrumentation?
And what about those things do you object to?
You mention mumbling - but they certainly mumble less than, say Michael Stipe has done. And you mention melody, but I don't perceive it as less melodic than plenty of music from before this year.
I'm not crazy about either song, but I'm trying to figure out what makes these songs so particularly distasteful to you.
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KDS
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« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2016, 12:16:46 PM »

Emily,

Are you in the law field by any chance? 

What I'm objecting to is the fact that these two examples barely qualify as songs. 

There's a general lazy, nature of these tracks.  I think my concern is that the overall quality of music has been in decline for awhile now. 

There will come a day, and it's sooner rather than later, where Brian Wilson, Paul McCartney, The Stones, The Who, etc etc etc won't be around anymore.  Is this what we have to look forward to? 
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« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2016, 12:24:01 PM »

There's good stuff around; of course, most of it is indie.
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KDS
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« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2016, 12:27:11 PM »

There's good stuff around; of course, most of it is indie.

I'm not a fan of indie music, but at least it's real music. 

Sure, there's some decent bands out there.  I'm a fan of hard rock, and there's some decent stuff, but much of it is very derivative. 
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the captain
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« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2016, 12:31:48 PM »

I recently was saying in the 2016 new music thread that I feel like it's been a good year.

Of what you mentioned, I really like maybe 1/2 of the Rihanna album. But then plenty of others, including various styles. My post in that thread listed a bunch. I won't list them again but it was pretty recent, should be easy to find. I know you're a harder rock guy though, and not much of what I've been liking is rock.
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KDS
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« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2016, 12:36:42 PM »

I recently was saying in the 2016 new music thread that I feel like it's been a good year.

Of what you mentioned, I really like maybe 1/2 of the Rihanna album. But then plenty of others, including various styles. My post in that thread listed a bunch. I won't list them again but it was pretty recent, should be easy to find. I know you're a harder rock guy though, and not much of what I've been liking is rock.

It's tough being a rock guy in 2016.  The classic rock sites have been like obituaries over the last four months. 

Rock and roll has been pretty stagnant since the early 1990s.  There's some decent groups out there, but most good new releases are from artists who've been at it for at least 30 years. 
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alf wiedersehen
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« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2016, 12:45:12 PM »

most good new releases are from artists who've been at it for at least 30 years

Ah, yes, the spirit of rock & roll: old guys making safe music.
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Emily
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« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2016, 12:54:44 PM »

Emily,

Are you in the law field by any chance?  

What I'm objecting to is the fact that these two examples barely qualify as songs.  

There's a general lazy, nature of these tracks.  I think my concern is that the overall quality of music has been in decline for awhile now.  

There will come a day, and it's sooner rather than later, where Brian Wilson, Paul McCartney, The Stones, The Who, etc etc etc won't be around anymore.  Is this what we have to look forward to?  
I wasn't trying to argue. I think it's clear you and I perceive a lot of things differently and I was trying to get a clearer idea of what exactly it is about these songs that you object to, more than other similar songs. Or what it is about pop, these days, that you don't like. I'm not criticizing you for not liking it; just trying to understand where you're coming from a bit more.

Edited to add: as it happens, I consider Miley Cyrus to be quite problematic and I haven't enjoyed any of her music, that I've heard. Rihanna I find very mildly problematic and I like some of her music.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 12:57:59 PM by Emily » Logged
KDS
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« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2016, 12:54:56 PM »

most good new releases are from artists who've been at it for at least 30 years

Ah, yes, the spirit of rock & roll: old guys making safe music.

And putting just about every young rocker to shame.  
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KDS
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« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2016, 12:56:56 PM »

Emily,

Are you in the law field by any chance? 

What I'm objecting to is the fact that these two examples barely qualify as songs. 

There's a general lazy, nature of these tracks.  I think my concern is that the overall quality of music has been in decline for awhile now. 

There will come a day, and it's sooner rather than later, where Brian Wilson, Paul McCartney, The Stones, The Who, etc etc etc won't be around anymore.  Is this what we have to look forward to? 
I wasn't trying to argue. I think it's clear you and I perceive a lot of things differently and I was trying to get a clearer idea of what exactly it is about these songs that you object to, more than other similar songs. Or what it is about pop, these days, that you don't like. I'm not criticizing you for not liking it; just trying to understand where you're coming from a bit more.

I didn't say you were arguing.  I just think if you're not in a field of law, you may have missed your calling in life.

Maybe I'm just an old soul, but I just don't see how anybody can see the talent pool in music getting more and more shallow and not be concerned. 
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Emily
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« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2016, 01:02:02 PM »


  I just think if you're not in a field of law, you may have missed your calling in life.

Undecided so I've been told. The method appeals to me, but the judicial system doesn't, nor does corporate law so, no.
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« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2016, 01:09:34 PM »

Happens to all of us  Grin  - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV0wTtiJygY
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KDS
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« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2016, 01:18:03 PM »


That happened to me around 13. 

I guess I just wasn't made for these times. 

Hmm.....might have something there. 
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the captain
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« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2016, 03:04:07 PM »


It's tough being a rock guy in 2016.  The classic rock sites have been like obituaries over the last four months. 
 

That's only going to continue, obviously. I think the reality of the previous few decades being the only ones that churned out pop star after pop star is that more and more people are going to care as they, decades later, die. The fact that rock specifically is also an art form that seems to be headed toward practical extinction (meaning big-picture, mainstream irrelevance, a la jazz) probably makes it worse, since there aren't obvious next-in-lines.
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« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2016, 04:46:32 PM »



That's only going to continue, obviously. I think the reality of the previous few decades being the only ones that churned out pop star after pop star is that more and more people are going to care as they, decades later, die. The fact that rock specifically is also an art form that seems to be headed toward practical extinction (meaning big-picture, mainstream irrelevance, a la jazz) probably makes it worse, since there aren't obvious next-in-lines.

I think I'm gonna put this on my gravestone.
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the captain
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« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2016, 04:49:05 PM »



That's only going to continue, obviously. I think the reality of the previous few decades being the only ones that churned out pop star after pop star is that more and more people are going to care as they, decades later, die. The fact that rock specifically is also an art form that seems to be headed toward practical extinction (meaning big-picture, mainstream irrelevance, a la jazz) probably makes it worse, since there aren't obvious next-in-lines.

I think I'm gonna put this on my gravestone.

Sweet. On mine, I am going to put "why are you looking at a rock standing on dirt?" Or maybe "he was punctual and of better-than-average height." Or maybe "I once said something that yonderhillside put on a gravestone and I'd republish it here but it was kind of long so either I'd need a bigger stone or smaller font size, the latter of which would be problematic for the older folks."
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« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2016, 05:50:07 PM »

What makes things popular is completely different now, too. Instead of appealing just to radio stations, artists can use crazy complex music videos (I know older bands did, but they didn't have Youtube), social media, and music streaming. I'm not really sure what my point is, I guess something along the lines of "hey guys pop artists are catering to a different audience."
I mean, I guess a lot of my peers (read: me and my friends are millennials) and if I think about it, most of them are only familiar with a few songs by an assortment of artists. Only a few still listen to whole albums and are able to say more than just "omg i heard this catchy 21 pilots song the other day." If that offers any perspective.
edit: don't mean to come across as dissing my friends. i'm just a little passionate about music is all Tongue.

The other is a new one by Rihanna called "Work."  It sounds like she walked into the studio either high
but is that a surprise
« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 05:51:03 PM by undercover-m » Logged

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« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2016, 07:13:48 PM »

My thumb is really off the pulse of modern artists. I don't know half the new artists that have any talent, because A. how the hell do you find them anyway? (and I'm pretty skilled at finding obscure, even homemade artists from any other decade) and B. 95% is absolute garbage. Call me close-minded, but I beg to differ. The only albums I'm looking forward to this year so far are Paul Simon's new one, because he cannot record bad music, and Radiohead's alleged release (hopefully). I haven't really heard of much else I'm concerned with, aside from box-sets of previously recorded music.
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the captain
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« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2016, 07:25:52 PM »

I don't know half the new artists that have any talent, because A. how the hell do you find them anyway? (and I'm pretty skilled at finding obscure, even homemade artists from any other decade) and B. 95% is absolute garbage.

Id say if you're more interested in A than convinced of B, try keeping an eye on the new music thread in this forum. If not, then don't worry about it.
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« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2016, 07:52:21 PM »

What makes things popular is completely different now, too. Instead of appealing just to radio stations, artists can use crazy complex music videos (I know older bands did, but they didn't have Youtube), social media, and music streaming. I'm not really sure what my point is, I guess something along the lines of "hey guys pop artists are catering to a different audience."
I mean, I guess a lot of my peers (read: me and my friends are millennials) and if I think about it, most of them are only familiar with a few songs by an assortment of artists. Only a few still listen to whole albums and are able to say more than just "omg i heard this catchy 21 pilots song the other day." If that offers any perspective.
edit: don't mean to come across as dissing my friends. i'm just a little passionate about music is all Tongue.

The other is a new one by Rihanna called "Work."  It sounds like she walked into the studio either high
but is that a surprise

That's almost exactly how my friends are, but even worse.  Nobody I know listens to full albums, it's strictly top 40 singles.  Then it's on to the next hot artist. 
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« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2016, 09:38:05 PM »

That's almost exactly how my friends are, but even worse.

I don't like this attitude. That approach to music listening is no less valid than any other form of music listening, and no approach is inherently better than any other. If people are listening to and enjoying music, then what's the big deal?

Musical elitism is for the weak.
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undercover-m
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« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2016, 09:58:19 PM »

That's almost exactly how my friends are, but even worse.

I don't like this attitude. That approach to music listening is no less valid than any other form of music listening, and no approach is inherently better than any other. If people are listening to and enjoying music, then what's the big deal?

Musical elitism is for the weak.
I mean, I find it "disappointing" although people could say the same thing about me with movies or books. I love watching things and readings things but I only have a few favorites off the top of my head. It's just fun when I do stumble upon people who, too, know unnecessary stuff about musicians. Nice to know other people are as weird as I am Smiley
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It is an interesting idea that rock is dying out. But I guess every decade seems to bring new forms of popular music. I think the 2010s have been quite electronic-y and more so than I would like, but hey, if that's what people like, I can't argue with that. We'll see what the new era of music is.
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KDS
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« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2016, 05:13:13 AM »

What makes things popular is completely different now, too. Instead of appealing just to radio stations, artists can use crazy complex music videos (I know older bands did, but they didn't have Youtube), social media, and music streaming. I'm not really sure what my point is, I guess something along the lines of "hey guys pop artists are catering to a different audience."
I mean, I guess a lot of my peers (read: me and my friends are millennials) and if I think about it, most of them are only familiar with a few songs by an assortment of artists. Only a few still listen to whole albums and are able to say more than just "omg i heard this catchy 21 pilots song the other day." If that offers any perspective.
edit: don't mean to come across as dissing my friends. i'm just a little passionate about music is all Tongue.

The other is a new one by Rihanna called "Work."  It sounds like she walked into the studio either high
but is that a surprise

I couldn't agree more.  The album has an artform is all but dead, thanks mainly to the rise of MP3 driven music purchases. 

And there's a word there that you used.  I hear it all the time when people describe new pop songs.  "Catchy."  In the summer of 2014, when Taylor Swift released "Shake It Off," my sister was really into it.  When I asked her, "Do you really like this song?"  She said, "It's catchy."  At no time in the conversation did she say it was good.  The Old Spice theme is catchy, but I wouldn't buy a CD with it. 

I've 100% convinced that most of today's pop sells simply because people can't get the songs out of their head. 
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KDS
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« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2016, 05:15:53 AM »


It's tough being a rock guy in 2016.  The classic rock sites have been like obituaries over the last four months. 
 

That's only going to continue, obviously. I think the reality of the previous few decades being the only ones that churned out pop star after pop star is that more and more people are going to care as they, decades later, die. The fact that rock specifically is also an art form that seems to be headed toward practical extinction (meaning big-picture, mainstream irrelevance, a la jazz) probably makes it worse, since there aren't obvious next-in-lines.

I never really thought about that Capt, but I think you're right that rock is going the way of jazz. 

I read a UK mag called Classic Rock, and they had an interesting piece about who the next rock headliners on the festival circuit will be once the old guard retires or, sadly in recent cases, dies. 

Sure, there's some good bands out there, but it seems unlikely that any of them could headline a big festival. 
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