What songs did Mike Love "steal" in the copyright trial against Brian?

[Cam Mott]

Wonder why Mike didn't take Arc to court over claiming that lyric credit, since it's one of the most familiar songs in the Beach Boys discography.

Maybe because Arc hadn't promised him 30% of their award?

If it were about restoring proper credit, and Mike cites Surfin USA years later as one that he didn't get credit for despite contributing lyrics, why the inaction? Arc is listed as publisher on the earliest release of the song, and eventually Chuck Berry got sole writing credit based on Murry's agreement rather than the actual credits, which is always brought up. If Mike wants his due credit for a song where he didn't get credit, there is one glaring example he didn't pursue. Unlike those 79 songs that got shaved down to 35 by the time the gavel came down.

How many of those 79 songs were complicated legally by the plagiarism of a songwriting partner?  If a promise hadn't been made and then broken there wouldn't have been a suit against Brian.

Things get reduced in the course of a lawsuit I suppose: 79 songs down to 36, $200 million dollars in damages down to $10 million, and so on.

[c-man]

The song was "Surfin'" and not "Surfin USA", that is correct.

Maybe someone can correct me if I'm remembering it wrong, but Surfin USA was not part of the 90's credits lawsuit, and for a very confusing maze of credits, trace the history of Surfin USA releases since it first came out. It was published/owned by Arc Music, which is where many of the Chess label's music resides, including Chuck Berry. Credits on various releases ranged from "Brian Wilson" to "Brian Wilson - Chuck Berry" to "Chuck Berry" and going so far as "words and music by Chuck Berry". The latter is obviously not the case, factually...so why does it appear that way?

Murry signed over the song to resolve the copyright claims with Chuck's Sweet Little Sixteen.

Which means, if Mike had wanted to claim credit for Surfin USA, he'd need to bring Arc and Chuck Berry into a court case, separate from where he took Brian to court over the 79 songs, since Chuck and Arc technically "own" Surfin USA ostensibly thanks to Murry 50 years ago. It's almost comical to see Arc's catalog of song titles and see one and only one Beach Boys song on that list, even though Chuck Berry did not write a single word of that lyric, and the main hook of the melody sounds nothing like Sweet Little Sixteen.

Wonder why Mike didn't take Arc to court over claiming that lyric credit, since it's one of the most familiar songs in the Beach Boys discography.

It would be almost an impossible suit to win, if Brian/Murrayould have made an agreement to split copyright, there may be a case. The reason I was looking for if Brian ever suggested Mike wrote part of Surfin USA, is someone mentioned on another board they
saw Brian say it in an old interview, was trying to find that interview and found that.

Don't know about Brian, but Carl actually did (in the multi-part 1974 BBC radio series on the Beach Boys):
"'Sweet Little Sixteen' was just a great tune, and so Brian just did an arrangement of it, and we changed it around; Brian and Michael did. Chuck Berry wasn't personally involved in that."
Carl says "arrangement" rather than "rewrite", but definitely indicates that Mike had a role in that, along with Brian.

[Emily]

Has Mike said he did?

[KingSurf]

Has Mike said he did?

Yep, before and after the lawsuit.

[Emily]

Has Mike said he did?

Yep, before and after the lawsuit.

Thanks for answering. Has anyone other than Al in that one interview said he didn't? I know about Judy Bowles' brother contributing, but that doesn't mean that Mike Love didn't as well.

[guitarfool2002]

Again it begs the question: Why the inaction? Did Mike not want to take Chuck Berry, or Arc Publishing, or any related interests to court over lyrics he can stake a claim to have written or co-written, yet releases up to the present day credit Chuck Berry who literally did not write one single word of Surfin USA?

The parameters are similar, right? Murry signed over the song and the rights and eventually the credits to those administering Chuck Berry's music in 1963 (as Chuck was in prison at that time), then later turned over the whole shebang so Chuck is listed as sole author of the words and music.

And if Mike is mentioning Surfin USA as one which he wasn't credited yet contributed to the lyrics, and Murry signed it over, why not go to Arc and Berry's interests and file for his rightful credit?

[KingSurf]

For me whether he filed suit or not for 1 song, does not prove either way if he helped write the lyrics or not. Would likely be a complicated lawsuit with not a big financial gain. The people at Arc did no wrong to Mike, they don't know if he contributed or not.

[Empire Of Love]

For me whether he filed suit or not for 1 song, does not prove either way if he helped write the lyrics or not. Would likely be a complicated lawsuit with not a big financial gain. The people at Arc did no wrong to Mike, they don't know if he contributed or not.

I am always suspicious of new posters who show up with apparent knowledge of the inner workings of the group just in time to defend some point or other.  It so very Mike-Love-2005-lawsuit-false-witness-esque.  Are you Mike's manager or something?

[KingSurf]

For me whether he filed suit or not for 1 song, does not prove either way if he helped write the lyrics or not. Would likely be a complicated lawsuit with not a big financial gain. The people at Arc did no wrong to Mike, they don't know if he contributed or not.

I am always suspicious of new posters who show up with apparent knowledge of the inner workings of the group just in time to defend some point or other.  It so very Mike-Love-2005-lawsuit-false-witness-esque.  Are you Mike's manager or something?

I claim no inner knowledge, just going by what Mike or Carl or Brian have said in public. Where have I said anything that claimed I have any inner knowledge. I'm not the one who came up with the Carl Wilson information above about Surfin USA. Just commenting as an observer like most others here.

[Cam Mott]

Mike went after Brian because there was a promise made that was broken.  Arc made no such promise so I guess because the premise is a red herring.

[GhostyTMRS]

Again it begs the question: Why the inaction? Did Mike not want to take Chuck Berry, or Arc Publishing, or any related interests to court over lyrics he can stake a claim to have written or co-written, yet releases up to the present day credit Chuck Berry who literally did not write one single word of Surfin USA?

The parameters are similar, right? Murry signed over the song and the rights and eventually the credits to those administering Chuck Berry's music in 1963 (as Chuck was in prison at that time), then later turned over the whole shebang so Chuck is listed as sole author of the words and music.

And if Mike is mentioning Surfin USA as one which he wasn't credited yet contributed to the lyrics, and Murry signed it over, why not go to Arc and Berry's interests and file for his rightful credit?

Pure speculation, but maybe he was waiting for Morris Levy to die so he wouldn't wind up in a block of cement.   

[wantsomecorn]

Or Mike's lawyers advised him not too. But then again, these were (probably) the same sharks that advised him to sue over the Smile giveaway...

[mabewa]

BTW, on this topic, how much of the lyrics of Good Vibrations did Mike write? Sometimes he's said that he wrote all of it...  I'm thinking he means that Brian came up with the title and he wrote the rest.  But on Brian Wilson Presents Smile, the Tony Asher version has some of the same lyrics.  For example, the first verse starts 'I like the colorful clothes she wears,' but then the rest of the verse is different from the BB's version.  Do you think that Tony (or Brian) wrote the first line, and then Mike changed the rest of the verse? 

For what it's worth, I think that Mike's lyrics are much better than Asher's on GV, but I wonder how much of the lyrics he wrote.

[c-man]

BTW, on this topic, how much of the lyrics of Good Vibrations did Mike write? Sometimes he's said that he wrote all of it...  I'm thinking he means that Brian came up with the title and he wrote the rest.  But on Brian Wilson Presents Smile, the Tony Asher version has some of the same lyrics.  For example, the first verse starts 'I like the colorful clothes she wears,' but then the rest of the verse is different from the BB's version.  Do you think that Tony (or Brian) wrote the first line, and then Mike changed the rest of the verse? 

For what it's worth, I think that Mike's lyrics are much better than Asher's on GV, but I wonder how much of the lyrics he wrote.

Tony's first line was different, but was erased from the master tape - that's why it's absent from the bootlegs and official release of it, and that's why the BWPS version incorporates Mike's first line.

[mabewa]

BTW, on this topic, how much of the lyrics of Good Vibrations did Mike write? Sometimes he's said that he wrote all of it...  I'm thinking he means that Brian came up with the title and he wrote the rest.  But on Brian Wilson Presents Smile, the Tony Asher version has some of the same lyrics.  For example, the first verse starts 'I like the colorful clothes she wears,' but then the rest of the verse is different from the BB's version.  Do you think that Tony (or Brian) wrote the first line, and then Mike changed the rest of the verse? 

For what it's worth, I think that Mike's lyrics are much better than Asher's on GV, but I wonder how much of the lyrics he wrote.

Tony's first line was different, but was erased from the master tape - that's why it's absent from the bootlegs and official release of it, and that's why the BWPS version incorporates Mike's first line.

Interesting!  So I'm guessing that no-one remembers what the first line was? 

[c-man]

BTW, on this topic, how much of the lyrics of Good Vibrations did Mike write? Sometimes he's said that he wrote all of it...  I'm thinking he means that Brian came up with the title and he wrote the rest.  But on Brian Wilson Presents Smile, the Tony Asher version has some of the same lyrics.  For example, the first verse starts 'I like the colorful clothes she wears,' but then the rest of the verse is different from the BB's version.  Do you think that Tony (or Brian) wrote the first line, and then Mike changed the rest of the verse? 

For what it's worth, I think that Mike's lyrics are much better than Asher's on GV, but I wonder how much of the lyrics he wrote.

Tony's first line was different, but was erased from the master tape - that's why it's absent from the bootlegs and official release of it, and that's why the BWPS version incorporates Mike's first line.

Interesting!  So I'm guessing that no-one remembers what the first line was? 

Apparently no one did at the time.

[Cam Mott]

BTW, on this topic, how much of the lyrics of Good Vibrations did Mike write? Sometimes he's said that he wrote all of it...  I'm thinking he means that Brian came up with the title and he wrote the rest.  But on Brian Wilson Presents Smile, the Tony Asher version has some of the same lyrics.  For example, the first verse starts 'I like the colorful clothes she wears,' but then the rest of the verse is different from the BB's version.  Do you think that Tony (or Brian) wrote the first line, and then Mike changed the rest of the verse? 

For what it's worth, I think that Mike's lyrics are much better than Asher's on GV, but I wonder how much of the lyrics he wrote.

Tony's first line was different, but was erased from the master tape - that's why it's absent from the bootlegs and official release of it, and that's why the BWPS version incorporates Mike's first line.

Interesting!  So I'm guessing that no-one remembers what the first line was? 

Apparently no one did at the time.

I think it was "cranberry sauce".

[Theydon Bois]

BTW, on this topic, how much of the lyrics of Good Vibrations did Mike write? Sometimes he's said that he wrote all of it...  I'm thinking he means that Brian came up with the title and he wrote the rest.  But on Brian Wilson Presents Smile, the Tony Asher version has some of the same lyrics.  For example, the first verse starts 'I like the colorful clothes she wears,' but then the rest of the verse is different from the BB's version.  Do you think that Tony (or Brian) wrote the first line, and then Mike changed the rest of the verse? 

For what it's worth, I think that Mike's lyrics are much better than Asher's on GV, but I wonder how much of the lyrics he wrote.

Tony's first line was different, but was erased from the master tape - that's why it's absent from the bootlegs and official release of it, and that's why the BWPS version incorporates Mike's first line.

Interesting!  So I'm guessing that no-one remembers what the first line was? 

It's "I just met a surgeon from Spain".  Sadly the original "limerick" conception of the song was quickly abandoned.

[You Kane, You Commanded, You Conquered]

It's "I just met a surgeon from Spain".  Sadly the original "limerick" conception of the song was quickly abandoned.

 

[Bicyclerider]

When I started this thread I assumed that the lying that Rock and Stephen referred to with regards to this suit had to do with Mike's contributions to songs that in fact he had very little to do with.  But another way to look at it is that Mike lacked documentation or "vetting" proof that he did in fact contribute to many of the songs, and needed people to lie about how they knew he had written this line or that lyric, they had seen him or spoken with him at the time and remembered that he had worked on a particular song, etc.    Because otherwise it would just be Mike's word against Brian's. 

If this is the case, Mike may have not been claiming credit for any songs he didn't have a hand in, but needed people to lie to prove he co-wrote the songs.  Then again, he may have claimed credit for songs he had minimal or no participation in - once you have your liars in place, why stop at just the songs you actually wrote?

[filledeplage]

When I started this thread I assumed that the lying that Rock and Stephen referred to with regards to this suit had to do with Mike's contributions to songs that in fact he had very little to do with.  But another way to look at it is that Mike lacked documentation or "vetting" proof that he did in fact contribute to many of the songs, and needed people to lie about how they knew he had written this line or that lyric, they had seen him or spoken with him at the time and remembered that he had worked on a particular song, etc.    Because otherwise it would just be Mike's word against Brian's.  

If this is the case, Mike may have not been claiming credit for any songs he didn't have a hand in, but needed people to lie to prove he co-wrote the songs.  Then again, he may have claimed credit for songs he had minimal or no participation in - once you have your liars in place, why stop at just the songs you actually wrote?

People should start saving their work product.  The notebooks, sheets of paper, the drafts and revisions, etc.   

Take cell phone photos if nothing else that will back up in your computer when you connect your phone.  

[Bicyclerider]

People should start saving their work product.  The notebooks, sheets of paper, the drafts and revisions, etc.   

Take cell phone photos if nothing else that will back up in your computer when you connect your phone.  

Yeah, I can't believe Mike didn't use his cell phone to take pictures of his lyric sheets for his Today and Summer Days contributions! 

[filledeplage]

People should start saving their work product.  The notebooks, sheets of paper, the drafts and revisions, etc.   

Take cell phone photos if nothing else that will back up in your computer when you connect your phone.  

Yeah, I can't believe Mike didn't use his cell phone to take pictures of his lyric sheets for his Today and Summer Days contributions! 

There are many artists and creators on this forum who can get into that good habit going forward.

But those "analog people" who might still have kept notebooks or legal pads with lyrics might do well do well to keep their work dated or start.  It can be a valuable source of evidence for court if it becomes a contested issue. 

[Emily]

When I started this thread I assumed that the lying that Rock and Stephen referred to with regards to this suit had to do with Mike's contributions to songs that in fact he had very little to do with.  But another way to look at it is that Mike lacked documentation or "vetting" proof that he did in fact contribute to many of the songs, and needed people to lie about how they knew he had written this line or that lyric, they had seen him or spoken with him at the time and remembered that he had worked on a particular song, etc.    Because otherwise it would just be Mike's word against Brian's. 

If this is the case, Mike may have not been claiming credit for any songs he didn't have a hand in, but needed people to lie to prove he co-wrote the songs.  Then again, he may have claimed credit for songs he had minimal or no participation in - once you have your liars in place, why stop at just the songs you actually wrote?

It's possible.
Two things, though:
1. Many songs were tossed, so if he was drumming up fake evidence, he didn't do a good job of it.
2. The account of the suit sounds like for the most part it was his word against Brian's, and Brian's word kind of failed to show up, so again, he didn't provide much evidence, fake or not.

[Emily]

This is a totally off-topic niggle, but 'work product' is linguistically incorrect legal jargon and I hate how it's seeping into and diluting proper English.