Brian's Book released October 11th

[Lee Marshall]

Regardless of what 'others' chimed in with about "piling on"...and what fly attractant THAT was...the proof that 'these guys' don't know DICK is the fact that not one of them has an answer or response for ANY of your REAL and VALID questions Debbie.  Not a one.  And how many days has it been?  Why...I wonder?

Use your nose.

Yet even though 'they' have  N O T H I N G  sooner than later they'll pop up in another thread uttering the same old/same old even though THEY KNOW that it's nothing but a hay-wagon loaded with bullshit.  The less I read...the more I know.

[Debbie KL]

Regardless of what 'others' chimed in with about "piling on"...and what fly attractant THAT was...the proof that 'these guys' don't know DICK is the fact that not one of them has an answer or response for ANY of your REAL and VALID questions Debbie.  Not a one.  And how many days has it been?  Why...I wonder?

Use your nose.

Yet even though 'they' have  N O T H I N G  sooner than later they'll pop up in another thread uttering the same old/same old even though THEY KNOW that it's nothing but a hay-wagon loaded with bullshit.  The less I read...the more I know.

Agreed.  They are masters of distraction when challenged, yet they deny that it's an "agenda" or orchestrated in any way.  It's certainly somebody's agenda.  I really want to know who this "insider" source is who will embarrass us so.

[Emily]

I agree with all three posts immediately above. Without evidence, which has never been presented, I ascribe it to the usual 'manipulative controlling woman' trope.
It's obvious that BW would particularly benefit from a smart, sensitive, helpful, supportive partner who takes care of practical concerns for him. To interpret the fact he's found someone good for him as evidence that either she's controlling or he's controlled says more about the interpreters than the subjects to me.

[Debbie KL]

I agree with all three posts immediately above. Without evidence, which has never been presented, I ascribe it to the usual 'manipulative controlling woman' trope.
It's obvious that BW would particularly benefit from a smart, sensitive, helpful, supportive partner who takes care of practical concerns for him. To interpret the fact he's found someone good for him as evidence that either she's controlling or he's controlled says more about the interpreters than the subjects to me.

Except that Cincinnati Kid said that he has an "insider" source for this information that would "embarrass" those questioning him.  I think, with the relentlessness of these attacks, and this revelation, it's pretty obvious that things are being orchestrated behind the scenes, and we deserve to know who the source of this supposed inside info is. Enough is enough. It isn't just a simple mindset by certain males.

[Emily]

I agree with all three posts immediately above. Without evidence, which has never been presented, I ascribe it to the usual 'manipulative controlling woman' trope.
It's obvious that BW would particularly benefit from a smart, sensitive, helpful, supportive partner who takes care of practical concerns for him. To interpret the fact he's found someone good for him as evidence that either she's controlling or he's controlled says more about the interpreters than the subjects to me.

Except that Cincinnati Kid said that he has an "insider" source for this information that would "embarrass" those questioning him.  I think, with the relentlessness of these attacks, and this revelation, it's pretty obvious that things are being orchestrated behind the scenes, and we deserve to know who the source of this supposed inside info is. Enough is enough. It isn't just a simple mindset by certain males.

That's a good point. My guess is it's a combination of a few things, with different aspects contributing to different posters' views: mistaken misinformation on the part of some; actual intentional misinformation or spinning on the part of others. I think some posters have no 'inside' connection, but find it easier to believe this spin (which does seem to be sometimes intentionally fed) because of their biased mindset (either against women or for Mike Love. It's a little mysterious, but seems to be the case that defensiveness of Mike Love sometimes translates into insulting Melinda.)
That you're frustrated and want to know where the misinformation is coming from is completely understandable. It would be nice for it to be cleared up.

[Debbie KL]

I agree with all three posts immediately above. Without evidence, which has never been presented, I ascribe it to the usual 'manipulative controlling woman' trope.
It's obvious that BW would particularly benefit from a smart, sensitive, helpful, supportive partner who takes care of practical concerns for him. To interpret the fact he's found someone good for him as evidence that either she's controlling or he's controlled says more about the interpreters than the subjects to me.

Except that Cincinnati Kid said that he has an "insider" source for this information that would "embarrass" those questioning him.  I think, with the relentlessness of these attacks, and this revelation, it's pretty obvious that things are being orchestrated behind the scenes, and we deserve to know who the source of this supposed inside info is. Enough is enough. It isn't just a simple mindset by certain males.

That's a good point. My guess is it's a combination of a few things, with different aspects contributing to different posters' views: mistaken misinformation on the part of some; actual intentional misinformation or spinning on the part of others. I think some posters have no 'inside' connection, but find it easier to believe this spin (which does seem to be sometimes intentionally fed) because of their biased mindset.
That you're frustrated and want to know where the misinformation is coming from is completely understandable. It would be nice for it to be cleared up.

I am beyond frustrated, true.  Beyond being nice to have it cleared up, it would end a nasty little cancer on this board that's gone on for too long.

[mikeddonn]

I agree with all three posts immediately above. Without evidence, which has never been presented, I ascribe it to the usual 'manipulative controlling woman' trope.
It's obvious that BW would particularly benefit from a smart, sensitive, helpful, supportive partner who takes care of practical concerns for him. To interpret the fact he's found someone good for him as evidence that either she's controlling or he's controlled says more about the interpreters than the subjects to me.

Except that Cincinnati Kid said that he has an "insider" source for this information that would "embarrass" those questioning him.  I think, with the relentlessness of these attacks, and this revelation, it's pretty obvious that things are being orchestrated behind the scenes, and we deserve to know who the source of this supposed inside info is. Enough is enough. It isn't just a simple mindset by certain males.

That's a good point. My guess is it's a combination of a few things, with different aspects contributing to different posters' views: mistaken misinformation on the part of some; actual intentional misinformation or spinning on the part of others. I think some posters have no 'inside' connection, but find it easier to believe this spin (which does seem to be sometimes intentionally fed) because of their biased mindset.
That you're frustrated and want to know where the misinformation is coming from is completely understandable. It would be nice for it to be cleared up.

As people who have sources have pointed out here in the past - the moment you reveal who your source is is when they stop being your source.  So I doubt if the Kid has a source they will reveal who it is.

Please don't take this as me thinking they have a source!

FWIW, I think Melinda is great for Brian.  I met her once at a show and she was a lovely person to me.  So I have the upmost respect for her.  I also trust someone like Ray, and know from experience when I met Brian there were no 'handlers' around and Melinda was back home in the States I believe.

[Emily]

I understand people not wanting to reveal their sources but repeated insinuations at some point need to be backed up. If people won't back it up, perhaps they should stop insinuating. Keep their sourced information secret along with the source. Otherwise, the exchange of information becomes completely unreliable.

It seems reasonable at this point, as the insinuations have been frequently repeated over several years, to request that everyone put their cards on the table. So I'll join Debbie in asking, what's the deal folks? What are the facts behind the insinuations?

[Debbie KL]

I agree with all three posts immediately above. Without evidence, which has never been presented, I ascribe it to the usual 'manipulative controlling woman' trope.
It's obvious that BW would particularly benefit from a smart, sensitive, helpful, supportive partner who takes care of practical concerns for him. To interpret the fact he's found someone good for him as evidence that either she's controlling or he's controlled says more about the interpreters than the subjects to me.

Except that Cincinnati Kid said that he has an "insider" source for this information that would "embarrass" those questioning him.  I think, with the relentlessness of these attacks, and this revelation, it's pretty obvious that things are being orchestrated behind the scenes, and we deserve to know who the source of this supposed inside info is. Enough is enough. It isn't just a simple mindset by certain males.

That's a good point. My guess is it's a combination of a few things, with different aspects contributing to different posters' views: mistaken misinformation on the part of some; actual intentional misinformation or spinning on the part of others. I think some posters have no 'inside' connection, but find it easier to believe this spin (which does seem to be sometimes intentionally fed) because of their biased mindset.
That you're frustrated and want to know where the misinformation is coming from is completely understandable. It would be nice for it to be cleared up.

As people who have sources have pointed out here in the past - the moment you reveal who your source is is when they stop being your source.  So I doubt if the Kid has a source they will reveal who it is.

Please don't take this as me thinking they have a source!

FWIW, I think Melinda is great for Brian.  I met her once at a show and she was a lovely person to me.  So I have the upmost respect for her.  I also trust someone like Ray, and know from experience when I met Brian there were no 'handlers' around and Melinda was back home in the States I believe.

Oh, I think many of them very much do have a source.  Just not any of the real "insiders" I mentioned in my previous post.

[the captain]

My personal practice is that when someone not known to have "sources" (let's be clear, we know perfectly well that many people here, whether titled "Honored Guests" or not, have legitimate contacts in the real world of the BBs ... and others, not) starts blabbing, but produces nothing of merit (i.e., not a journalist, an author, a historian) and instead just drops (inevitably negative ... anyone ever notice that?) innuendo here, I just ignore it to the best of my ability. (And sometimes that ability wanes and instead I say something really nasty and risk a ban.) My assumption tends to be that anyone who may have been said "source" has quite a case of sour grapes to begin with, hence the inevitable negativity in speaking to some non-content producing fan.

Not claiming that's some great wisdom or anything, or that it's foolproof. But it keeps my blood pressure under control. Let the gnostic nonsense flow by. That makes all the difference to me.

[The Cincinnati Kid]

Debbie, please check your pm inbox as that should clear things up.  If not, let me know.

[Debbie KL]

Debbie, please check your pm inbox as that should clear things up.  If not, let me know.

I see nothing in my pm box.  When did you send me a msg?

[Emily]

My personal practice is that when someone not known to have "sources" (let's be clear, we know perfectly well that many people here, whether titled "Honored Guests" or not, have legitimate contacts in the real world of the BBs ... and others, not) starts blabbing, but produces nothing of merit (i.e., not a journalist, an author, a historian) and instead just drops (inevitably negative ... anyone ever notice that?) innuendo here, I just ignore it to the best of my ability. (And sometimes that ability wanes and instead I say something really nasty and risk a ban.) My assumption tends to be that anyone who may have been said "source" has quite a case of sour grapes to begin with, hence the inevitable negativity in speaking to some non-content producing fan.

Not claiming that's some great wisdom or anything, or that it's foolproof. But it keeps my blood pressure under control. Let the gnostic nonsense flow by. That makes all the difference to me.

I agree generally with the practice, but I'm trying to support Debbie. She's in a different position. I can ignore unpleasant insinuations about someone I don't know, but if people were repeatedly making unpleasant and untrue insinuations about my close friends, I'd want to find out where they're getting their false info and nip it in the bud.

[Cam Mott]

I'm not sure what is going on but the Kid said he was not accusing Melinda.

"Plus, if Melinda or anyone else close to Brian was not acting aboveboard, does anyone really think they'd tell us?    (Before someone accuses me of accusing Melinda of what I just said, settle down because I'm not)"

[Lee Marshall]

My wife has my back.  She doesn't tolerate people messin' with our groceries...or our peace of mind as a collective.  Melinda is there for Brian and her family.  That's how it's done. 

Well isn't it?

[Debbie KL]

Debbie, please check your pm inbox as that should clear things up.  If not, let me know.

I finally did get your pm.  I didn’t realize at the time of your post that you were trying to direct me to other pm’s that I had received from someone with considerable power on this Board, but thanks for making that clear.  The irony isn’t lost on me (nor the usual machinations) that I’m being boxed into silence by pm’s, the modus operandi of this sleazy little behind the scenes operation on SS:  An operation to defame Melinda Wilson, and in the process an attempt to make people believe that Brian is touring either unwillingly or “under the influence.” 

Yet, this garbage is allowed to continue on SS with the perpetrators (whom I have to assume this person in power can identify) allowed to continue merrily on.  I am beyond disgusted by what is being allowed here.  It is  an attack, not only on Brian Wilson’s legacy, but in “real time” it’s an attack on his tour.  Is this really lost on the people in power here?

[Autotune]

I thknk that if issues regarding PM's are brought to the forum, then people need speak up and call things by their name. Otherwise it becomes confusing for readers who don't know what's going?

Just who wrote what?

[The Cincinnati Kid]

Debbie, please check your pm inbox as that should clear things up.  If not, let me know.

I finally did get your pm.  I didn’t realize at the time of your post that you were trying to direct me to other pm’s that I had received from someone with considerable power on this Board, but thanks for making that clear.  The irony isn’t lost on me (nor the usual machinations) that I’m being boxed into silence by pm’s, the modus operandi of this sleazy little behind the scenes operation on SS:  An operation to defame Melinda Wilson, and in the process an attempt to make people believe that Brian is touring either unwillingly or “under the influence.” 

Yet, this garbage is allowed to continue on SS with the perpetrators (whom I have to assume this person in power can identify) allowed to continue merrily on.  I am beyond disgusted by what is being allowed here.  It is  an attack, not only on Brian Wilson’s legacy, but in “real time” it’s an attack on his tour.  Is this really lost on the people in power here?

I hope you're not referring to me and the other person who sent you a pm when you say you're being boxed into silence or that we're in an operation to defame Melinda.  I wanted you to read his pm because he's where I got my info from.  He and I both know now that the info we received is incorrect.    

[rab2591]

Plus, if Melinda or anyone else close to Brian was not acting aboveboard, does anyone really think they'd tell us?

Can't speak for anyone else, but I wouldn't be able to stay as mod if that were the case.  It's one of the reasons why I couldn't be on any of the Scott Weiland groups, having known what was really going on with him. I'm still here, and not going anywhere (health permitting)

Well we're all glad to have you here, Billy!  

It just bugs me when people say someone is wrong because an insider said differently.  If it really was like a WIBN 2, they're not going to tell us.  

You are too much kid.  So you think the super-secret, tell-no-one third-hand info you have is more reliable than Ray, Debbie, etc?  Good luck in life being that gullible.  Somehow you've come to think you have secret knowledge that no one else has.  But we all hear the stories, receive the PMs, the top secret info that we are to repeat to no one, etc.  The truth is, none of us outsiders have special knowledge.  The minute you think you do is the minute you should realize you've been had.

EoL

All I'm going to say is you'd feel a bit embarrassed if you know who told me.  I'm not even sure why you posting here to be honest.  The vast majority of your posts the past couple years is just you arguing with people.  Before that, you made some really nice posts and I enjoyed listening to the music you made.

Okay.  So tell me who this incredible "insider" is who told you that Melinda isn't "above board."  I really want to know.  I'm fairly certain that Brian's attorneys and medical team aren't stupid enough to give inside info to some juvenile poster on a message board.  I feel equally certain that it wasn't Jean Sievers, Melinda or Brian.  So tell me who this person is who will make me feel so embarrassed to have questioned their inside info.

I think most of us know who this “insider” is. Most of us have gotten PMs from this person. I know I have. This “insider” uses the PM function like a 24/7 telegraph service. It’s one huge reason why I left this place. It’s sad when you get a PM from a supposedly respected member of the board that basically attempts to undermine the credibility of Melinda Wilson and her story. I knew the information I received was bullshit and said as much. Now, had this been a one time deal I would’ve blamed it on bad information and left it at that. But I have heard from others on this board who have received similar contact from this person with information that attempts to discredit Melinda in different ways. It’s a shadow campaign that has sucked a lot of people in.

Other things have been done by this “insider” that leave me aghast. And I guarantee you this “insider” will not directly challenge the things I’m writing in this post because it would most likely spark the fumes that have been building for YEARS now. A lot of posters are pissed off about this stuff.

Frankly, I don’t blame the Cincinnati Kid for getting caught up in it. I have been reading his posts over the years and no doubt assumed he was duped with some bullshit information somewhere along the line. The game seems to be: prey on the naivety of younger/newer fans: give them niblets of “insider” scoop, build a foundation of trust, and then tell untruths about a certain side of the organization via PM. The great thing about convincing younger/newer/enthusiastic fans this bullshit is that they carry the torch for the next generation…and there’s almost no better way to ensure your version of history becomes solidified fact than by doing that. And of course there’s the bonus that these enthusiastic fans will be eager to share this information with others - and thus this crap spreads like wildfire.

I will directly ask the Cincinnati Kid: Is this what happened, or something similar? (don’t bother answering me via PM, as I have the function turned off, we can keep this public)

This message board is ground zero for pretty much any information about The Beach Boys and Brian Wilson. Which means this place bears a huge responsibly for the historical accuracy of this band. Unfortunately, the high-profile of this place, the bolstered reputations of certain posters, and a seeming agenda to spread untruths (whether knowingly or unknowingly) have made for a perfect storm of falsehoods. Not only is the main board being used to perpetuate some rather presumptuous and false claims about Brian’s camp but the PM function is used in an even greater way to spread this untruthful information. The PM function serves as a phenomenal tool to keep this person from being challenged when making these ridiculous claims. Because if this person were to publicly share these allegations they would be admonished by the powers that be.

Given what has taken place in recent years, I’m fairly uneasy about even posting this. Some of the sh*t that has gone on behind the scenes still leaves me jaw-dropped. Because of all of this (and a few other reasons), I had to walk away from this place last December. Yes, I said I’d leave for good but from what I’ve seen here lately I think it’s hugely important to shed light on the things that take place here. I can’t stand to see more young/enthusiastic posters get caught up in the same bullshit that I and others got caught up in years ago.

To people like Cincinnati Kid and everyone else who has “reliable” sources (on both sides of the spectrum): fact-check, research, compile. Don’t trust sources because they are “insiders” or “connected”. Look at every angle and logically deduce what you think is right. I think that advice can go to everyone here, including myself.

PS. This bullshit that Melinda is Landy part II needs to stop. Landy was a psychotic control freak who had people surrounding Brian 24/7. Today, Brian is under no such scrutiny and goes where he wants to go when he wants to go. In the past few years he has recorded and worked with some of the finest musicians in the industry, he has done successful tours that have left audience goers in tears and breathless at the beauty and grandeur. No matter how much some of you want to believe that Brian’s world is black and white, it most certainly isn’t. Is Brian living in a perfect world? Probably not! Remember that Brian is a very active/creative person with schizo-affective disorder, auditory hallucinations, and manic depression. I’m certain that it becomes a high wire act to balance out Brian’s happiness, longevity, mental health, physical health, and reputation. There are so many wonderful people who love and care for Brian right now: It’s a slap in the face to each and every one of them to infer that shady things take place in that camp. Brian is looked at and cared for by some of the worlds best doctors and mental health providers. Hell, his whole current world was given a microscopic view by Bill Polhad and others for the film Love and Mercy. If anything drastically unhealthy were taking place in this organization it would most certainly would have come to light in a big way by now.

[Empire Of Love]

I thknk that if issues regarding PM's are brought to the forum, then people need speak up and call things by their name. Otherwise it becomes confusing for readers who don't know what's going?

Just who wrote what?

Debbie: I am having no trouble following along.  Given the comments made by certain posters, the bizarre circles of refusal to speak plainly by others, the unfounded accusations by those in the know or who think they are in the know, etc...it is plain there have been some strange things going on here behind the scenes.  I am glad someone is finally calling attention to it, even if Autotune pretends to be having a hard time keeping up.

EoL

[Debbie KL]

I thknk that if issues regarding PM's are brought to the forum, then people need speak up and call things by their name. Otherwise it becomes confusing for readers who don't know what's going?

Just who wrote what?

I agree.  I don't know the originating person(s) responsible for the lies as that wasn't shared with me, but I too believe names should be named after all this time so that people receiving this misleading information are made aware, given the seriousness of all of this.

[The Cincinnati Kid]

rab:  It wasn't AGD.  It's someone I think all of us like very much.  If he wants to reveal his name he can, but if not, I understand that too.  We both now know the info we received is incorrect and that's all that matters to me at this point.  

[rab2591]

rab:  It wasn't AGD.  It's someone I think all of us like very much.  If he wants to reveal his name he can, but if not, I understand that too.  We both now know the info we received is incorrect and that's all that matters to me at this point. 

So if you got bad information, who gave all of you the bad information to begin with? And if the information is bad, why doesn't the person responsible correct it here?

Who knows how many people this false information was spread to...I think the best course of action is to make the correction public so we all get the facts straight.

[Empire Of Love]

rab:  It wasn't AGD.  It's someone I think all of us like very much.  If he wants to reveal his name he can, but if not, I understand that too.  We both now know the info we received is incorrect and that's all that matters to me at this point.  

The important thing is who is the ultimate source of the incorrect information?  This is not an isolated incident, if it were, no big deal.  But this is something that has a far reach.  I have a PM from someone claiming to have inside information who defames Melinda.  I know of at least one other.  That makes *at least* three such occurrences.  If the ultimate source of the information is the same person then we have a pattern.  If we have a pattern then we have a problem that should be addressed, especially if the person turns out to be a respected poster who has inside connections with either, or both, camps.

EoL

[Emily]

If The Cincinnati Kid and his/her compadre are not comfortable publicly naming names, I can understand that. I think, as The Cincinnati Kid made a public innuendo, then learned that his/her private information was incorrect, it's on him/her to publicly recant the innuendo. S/He's done that and it's hard to publicly say you were wrong, particularly after tempers have been raised, so good for The Cincinnati Kid.

edit to add: I'm not saying that the original sources shouldn't be sought and the whole thing cleared up, but I think The Cincinnati Kid unknowingly stumbled into a difficult situation and perhaps shouldn't be beat up too much for it.