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Author Topic: Is Steve Love A Credible Source?  (Read 26800 times)
rab2591
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« on: March 21, 2016, 07:59:43 AM »

“And as for the lawsuit Mike brought against Brian claiming he was deserving of 50% of the royalties from the songs, I know there were shenanigans that took place in that trial that hopefully will see the light of day in the future. I gave Brian all the ammunition he would need to undo the wrong done him when I was deposed at length in AUG 2006 in connection with the Jardine-Love case. I feel that Brian was royally screwed by Mike and his highly effective lawyers. They really snowed that gullible jury. What a travesty that whole thing was. I believe it is one of the biggest injustices ever to occur in the history of pop music!” 

-Steve Love, 
July 10, 2012

“Wait till Mike-y gets an earful of the "SMOKING GUN TAPE"... where Stan tapes he and I talking about...WHO LIED BEST IN COURT FOR... MIKE”

-Rocky Pamplin
March 15, 2016

“YES, THE SMOKING GUN TAPE IS of Stan AND me (It's called "PROOF") Stan doesn't really love Mike-y... or he would NEVER HAVE TAPED THIS CONVERSATION... AND THEN GIVEN IT TO STEPHEN! Unless, OF COURSE, he was STUPID!”

-Rocky Pamplin
March 16, 2016

This is huge. These are two people with previous deep involvement with the band who are claiming that “shenanigans” and lying took place during one of the most well known and talked about lawsuits in rock-n-roll history. Rocky Pamplin’s outlandish thread has veered across the spectrum seemingly between reality and fiction…Yet this is at least one story from his thread that appears to be corroborated by a knowledgable and credible person directly related to Mike Love and the Beach Boys band.

If this is all a ruse, then this topic is put to rest for good. But if it’s true, this could turn out to be one of the most mind-blowing stories in this band’s history (and to me it makes it fairly obvious why the usual Club Kokomo crowd is out trying to stop this story from gaining traction - any distraction will probably be used to distract from this story). For those of us who actually care about the truth and want to inspect all the angles, whats the harm in delving further into these substantial claims?

- Is Steve Love a credible source?
- Why bring these accusations up now?
- If these accusations turn out to be true, what are the ramifications?
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The Beach Boys legacy is still being mortared to this day...it has a solid and unbreakable foundation of incredible songs that tower above most bands, yet some bricks are more brittle and ugly than others (even some bricks put down more recently)...thus is the nature of any entity that continues to exist. You are not defined solely by your good achievements in life, you're also defined by those unpleasant moments too. This law of life, thankfully, helps keep us all in check.
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« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2016, 08:34:23 AM »

“And as for the lawsuit Mike brought against Brian claiming he was deserving of 50% of the royalties from the songs, I know there were shenanigans that took place in that trial that hopefully will see the light of day in the future. I gave Brian all the ammunition he would need to undo the wrong done him when I was deposed at length in AUG 2006 in connection with the Jardine-Love case. I feel that Brian was royally screwed by Mike and his highly effective lawyers. They really snowed that gullible jury. What a travesty that whole thing was. I believe it is one of the biggest injustices ever to occur in the history of pop music!” 

-Steve Love, 
July 10, 2012

“Wait till Mike-y gets an earful of the "SMOKING GUN TAPE"... where Stan tapes he and I talking about...WHO LIED BEST IN COURT FOR... MIKE”

-Rocky Pamplin
March 15, 2016

“YES, THE SMOKING GUN TAPE IS of Stan AND me (It's called "PROOF") Stan doesn't really love Mike-y... or he would NEVER HAVE TAPED THIS CONVERSATION... AND THEN GIVEN IT TO STEPHEN! Unless, OF COURSE, he was STUPID!”

-Rocky Pamplin
March 16, 2016

This is huge. These are two people with previous deep involvement with the band who are claiming that “shenanigans” and lying took place during one of the most well known and talked about lawsuits in rock-n-roll history. Rocky Pamplin’s outlandish thread has veered across the spectrum seemingly between reality and fiction…Yet this is at least one story from his thread that appears to be corroborated by a knowledgable and credible person directly related to Mike Love and the Beach Boys band.

If this is all a ruse, then this topic is put to rest for good. But if it’s true, this could turn out to be one of the most mind-blowing stories in this band’s history (and to me it makes it fairly obvious why the usual Club Kokomo crowd is out trying to stop this story from gaining traction - any distraction will probably be used to distract from this story). For those of us who actually care about the truth and want to inspect all the angles, whats the harm in delving further into these substantial claims?

- Is Steve Love a credible source?
- Why bring these accusations up now?
- If these accusations turn out to be true, what are the ramifications?

This is what I found stunning about the whole thread.  I am an "outsider" when it came to the business meetings, etc. (exactly the way Brian wanted it, so I am grateful to him), so I can't speak with any authority in this area. 

I saw Steve Love as an intern to Nick Grillo in 69-70.  He was obviously their manager for a crucial period of time.  There seems to have been a conviction, followed by an exoneration.  I don't know what any of that means, but I am genuinely curious about what the man has to say.  He was a very bright guy in ancient times when I saw him everyday for awhile.
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« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2016, 08:35:04 AM »

“And as for the lawsuit Mike brought against Brian claiming he was deserving of 50% of the royalties from the songs, I know there were shenanigans that took place in that trial that hopefully will see the light of day in the future. I gave Brian all the ammunition he would need to undo the wrong done him when I was deposed at length in AUG 2006 in connection with the Jardine-Love case. I feel that Brian was royally screwed by Mike and his highly effective lawyers. They really snowed that gullible jury. What a travesty that whole thing was. I believe it is one of the biggest injustices ever to occur in the history of pop music!”

-Steve Love,
July 10, 2012

“Wait till Mike-y gets an earful of the "SMOKING GUN TAPE"... where Stan tapes he and I talking about...WHO LIED BEST IN COURT FOR... MIKE”

-Rocky Pamplin
March 15, 2016

“YES, THE SMOKING GUN TAPE IS of Stan AND me (It's called "PROOF") Stan doesn't really love Mike-y... or he would NEVER HAVE TAPED THIS CONVERSATION... AND THEN GIVEN IT TO STEPHEN! Unless, OF COURSE, he was STUPID!”

-Rocky Pamplin
March 16, 2016

This is huge. These are two people with previous deep involvement with the band who are claiming that “shenanigans” and lying took place during one of the most well known and talked about lawsuits in rock-n-roll history. Rocky Pamplin’s outlandish thread has veered across the spectrum seemingly between reality and fiction…Yet this is at least one story from his thread that appears to be corroborated by a knowledgable and credible person directly related to Mike Love and the Beach Boys band.

If this is all a ruse, then this topic is put to rest for good. But if it’s true, this could turn out to be one of the most mind-blowing stories in this band’s history (and to me it makes it fairly obvious why the usual Club Kokomo crowd is out trying to stop this story from gaining traction - any distraction will probably be used to distract from this story). For those of us who actually care about the truth and want to inspect all the angles, whats the harm in delving further into these substantial claims?

- Is Steve Love a credible source?
- Why bring these accusations up now?
- If these accusations turn out to be true, what are the ramifications?

The answer to the second question has to be to do with the publicity about to surround Mike's book, Brian's book, the Pet Sounds anniversary, GV's 50th, and even the tail end of the C50 fallout.

If these guys don't put this in the public domain now, they'll never have such an attention-grabbing opportunity again, and the chance to profit from it will have gone forever. I suspect profit is a stronger incentive here than "the truth" or a desire to forge a fresh career as an author or chat show guest.
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« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2016, 08:47:23 AM »

“And as for the lawsuit Mike brought against Brian claiming he was deserving of 50% of the royalties from the songs, I know there were shenanigans that took place in that trial that hopefully will see the light of day in the future. I gave Brian all the ammunition he would need to undo the wrong done him when I was deposed at length in AUG 2006 in connection with the Jardine-Love case. I feel that Brian was royally screwed by Mike and his highly effective lawyers. They really snowed that gullible jury. What a travesty that whole thing was. I believe it is one of the biggest injustices ever to occur in the history of pop music!”

-Steve Love,
July 10, 2012

“Wait till Mike-y gets an earful of the "SMOKING GUN TAPE"... where Stan tapes he and I talking about...WHO LIED BEST IN COURT FOR... MIKE”

-Rocky Pamplin
March 15, 2016

“YES, THE SMOKING GUN TAPE IS of Stan AND me (It's called "PROOF") Stan doesn't really love Mike-y... or he would NEVER HAVE TAPED THIS CONVERSATION... AND THEN GIVEN IT TO STEPHEN! Unless, OF COURSE, he was STUPID!”

-Rocky Pamplin
March 16, 2016

This is huge. These are two people with previous deep involvement with the band who are claiming that “shenanigans” and lying took place during one of the most well known and talked about lawsuits in rock-n-roll history. Rocky Pamplin’s outlandish thread has veered across the spectrum seemingly between reality and fiction…Yet this is at least one story from his thread that appears to be corroborated by a knowledgable and credible person directly related to Mike Love and the Beach Boys band.

If this is all a ruse, then this topic is put to rest for good. But if it’s true, this could turn out to be one of the most mind-blowing stories in this band’s history (and to me it makes it fairly obvious why the usual Club Kokomo crowd is out trying to stop this story from gaining traction - any distraction will probably be used to distract from this story). For those of us who actually care about the truth and want to inspect all the angles, whats the harm in delving further into these substantial claims?

- Is Steve Love a credible source?
- Why bring these accusations up now?
- If these accusations turn out to be true, what are the ramifications?

The answer to the second question has to be to do with the publicity about to surround Mike's book, Brian's book, the Pet Sounds anniversary, GV's 50th, and even the tail end of the C50 fallout.

If these guys don't put this in the public domain now, they'll never have such an attention-grabbing opportunity again, and the chance to profit from it will have gone forever. I suspect profit is a stronger incentive here than "the truth" or a desire to forge a fresh career as an author or chat show guest.

So have you spoken to either of them personally?  I haven't in many decades.  So, I don't know anything about their motives, nor would I speculate, because then again, I'm back in a treacherous area, don't you think?  It seems like 2012 would have been the best time to profit from all this, but then again, I'm speculating.  

I'm thinking - Stephen, as a bright guy wouldn't have posted that first comment some time ago unless he believed that he had a reasonable case.  Why would he risk a libel suit?  That's why this all makes me so curious..
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 08:55:39 AM by Debbie KL » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2016, 09:01:24 AM »

If pamplin would quit with the insults, and the overall prickish attitude, I might be more willing to humor him and listen to what he has to say.  I keep thinking that maybe, just maybe he might have something that we might want to read.
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« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2016, 09:15:01 AM »

“And as for the lawsuit Mike brought against Brian claiming he was deserving of 50% of the royalties from the songs, I know there were shenanigans that took place in that trial that hopefully will see the light of day in the future. I gave Brian all the ammunition he would need to undo the wrong done him when I was deposed at length in AUG 2006 in connection with the Jardine-Love case. I feel that Brian was royally screwed by Mike and his highly effective lawyers. They really snowed that gullible jury. What a travesty that whole thing was. I believe it is one of the biggest injustices ever to occur in the history of pop music!”

-Steve Love,
July 10, 2012

“Wait till Mike-y gets an earful of the "SMOKING GUN TAPE"... where Stan tapes he and I talking about...WHO LIED BEST IN COURT FOR... MIKE”

-Rocky Pamplin
March 15, 2016

“YES, THE SMOKING GUN TAPE IS of Stan AND me (It's called "PROOF") Stan doesn't really love Mike-y... or he would NEVER HAVE TAPED THIS CONVERSATION... AND THEN GIVEN IT TO STEPHEN! Unless, OF COURSE, he was STUPID!”

-Rocky Pamplin
March 16, 2016

This is huge. These are two people with previous deep involvement with the band who are claiming that “shenanigans” and lying took place during one of the most well known and talked about lawsuits in rock-n-roll history. Rocky Pamplin’s outlandish thread has veered across the spectrum seemingly between reality and fiction…Yet this is at least one story from his thread that appears to be corroborated by a knowledgable and credible person directly related to Mike Love and the Beach Boys band.

If this is all a ruse, then this topic is put to rest for good. But if it’s true, this could turn out to be one of the most mind-blowing stories in this band’s history (and to me it makes it fairly obvious why the usual Club Kokomo crowd is out trying to stop this story from gaining traction - any distraction will probably be used to distract from this story). For those of us who actually care about the truth and want to inspect all the angles, whats the harm in delving further into these substantial claims?

- Is Steve Love a credible source?
- Why bring these accusations up now?
- If these accusations turn out to be true, what are the ramifications?

The answer to the second question has to be to do with the publicity about to surround Mike's book, Brian's book, the Pet Sounds anniversary, GV's 50th, and even the tail end of the C50 fallout.

If these guys don't put this in the public domain now, they'll never have such an attention-grabbing opportunity again, and the chance to profit from it will have gone forever. I suspect profit is a stronger incentive here than "the truth" or a desire to forge a fresh career as an author or chat show guest.

So have you spoken to either of them personally?  I haven't in many decades.  So, I don't know anything about their motives, nor would I speculate, because then again, I'm back in a treacherous area, don't you think?  It seems like 2012 would have been the best time to profit from all this, but then again, I'm speculating. 

I'm thinking - Stephen, as a bright guy wouldn't have posted that first comment some time ago unless he believed that he had a reasonable case.  Why would he risk a libel suit?  That's why this all makes me so curious..


You're quite right Debbie, I am speculating and I had t spoken to either.

I wish though that this information, that seems to have been withheld, had been offered to the proper authorities at the time. I'm curious to find out why it's been sat upon for so long.
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« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2016, 09:22:02 AM »

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« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 12:34:51 PM by Emily » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2016, 09:22:24 AM »

We need a date - approximate will do - for this tape.
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« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2016, 09:32:34 AM »

“And as for the lawsuit Mike brought against Brian claiming he was deserving of 50% of the royalties from the songs, I know there were shenanigans that took place in that trial that hopefully will see the light of day in the future. I gave Brian all the ammunition he would need to undo the wrong done him when I was deposed at length in AUG 2006 in connection with the Jardine-Love case. I feel that Brian was royally screwed by Mike and his highly effective lawyers. They really snowed that gullible jury. What a travesty that whole thing was. I believe it is one of the biggest injustices ever to occur in the history of pop music!”

-Steve Love,
July 10, 2012

“Wait till Mike-y gets an earful of the "SMOKING GUN TAPE"... where Stan tapes he and I talking about...WHO LIED BEST IN COURT FOR... MIKE”

-Rocky Pamplin
March 15, 2016

“YES, THE SMOKING GUN TAPE IS of Stan AND me (It's called "PROOF") Stan doesn't really love Mike-y... or he would NEVER HAVE TAPED THIS CONVERSATION... AND THEN GIVEN IT TO STEPHEN! Unless, OF COURSE, he was STUPID!”

-Rocky Pamplin
March 16, 2016

This is huge. These are two people with previous deep involvement with the band who are claiming that “shenanigans” and lying took place during one of the most well known and talked about lawsuits in rock-n-roll history. Rocky Pamplin’s outlandish thread has veered across the spectrum seemingly between reality and fiction…Yet this is at least one story from his thread that appears to be corroborated by a knowledgable and credible person directly related to Mike Love and the Beach Boys band.

If this is all a ruse, then this topic is put to rest for good. But if it’s true, this could turn out to be one of the most mind-blowing stories in this band’s history (and to me it makes it fairly obvious why the usual Club Kokomo crowd is out trying to stop this story from gaining traction - any distraction will probably be used to distract from this story). For those of us who actually care about the truth and want to inspect all the angles, whats the harm in delving further into these substantial claims?

- Is Steve Love a credible source?
- Why bring these accusations up now?
- If these accusations turn out to be true, what are the ramifications?

The answer to the second question has to be to do with the publicity about to surround Mike's book, Brian's book, the Pet Sounds anniversary, GV's 50th, and even the tail end of the C50 fallout.

If these guys don't put this in the public domain now, they'll never have such an attention-grabbing opportunity again, and the chance to profit from it will have gone forever. I suspect profit is a stronger incentive here than "the truth" or a desire to forge a fresh career as an author or chat show guest.

So have you spoken to either of them personally?  I haven't in many decades.  So, I don't know anything about their motives, nor would I speculate, because then again, I'm back in a treacherous area, don't you think?  It seems like 2012 would have been the best time to profit from all this, but then again, I'm speculating.  

I'm thinking - Stephen, as a bright guy wouldn't have posted that first comment some time ago unless he believed that he had a reasonable case.  Why would he risk a libel suit?  That's why this all makes me so curious..


You're quite right Debbie, I am speculating and I had t spoken to either.

I wish though that this information, that seems to have been withheld, had been offered to the proper authorities at the time. I'm curious to find out why it's been sat upon for so long.

Again, I have no idea about the timing.  I just find Stephen's position unique - he was the BBs manager tasked with serving their interests for a number of years.  At the same time, he was in the position of observing Brian's situation.  As to the timeliness of all of this, obviously I wish bright people who had some authority had acted in Brian's interests many years ago, as I've indicated in the Rocky thread.  Brian needed better doctors and representation a very long time ago.  Was Stephen in a position to make that happen?  I don't know.  I'm thinking he had many masters at that point.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 09:39:10 AM by Debbie KL » Logged
CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2016, 09:48:37 AM »

If pamplin would quit with the insults, and the overall prickish attitude, I might be more willing to humor him and listen to what he has to say.  I keep thinking that maybe, just maybe he might have something that we might want to read.

I don't know why people have to get hung up on an insider's attitude to the point of not even reading what they have to say, if they do have some kernels of knowledge and previously-unknown/unheard information to bring to the table. Why squander a chance at information coming out just because the guy throws Andrew Dice Clay-like insults out here and there?  

And regarding Steve, I would tend to think that a brother of one of the main songwriters of the Beach Boys is as believable a source as another brother of one of the main songwriters the Beach Boys, that being Carl or Dennis. What reason would any of them, past or present, have to completely fabricate entire events about their brother out of thin air?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 09:56:43 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2016, 09:59:19 AM »

Emily, these are undeniably serious allegations…as Debbie wrote, it puts someone in serious risk of a libel suit. There is obviously motive here that goes deeper than some sort of attention seeking behavior.

Steve Love gave testimony in a deposition in 2006 that apparently proves that shenanigans took place during the songwriting trial. What Rocky Pamplin recently wrote (10 years after that deposition) seemingly corroborates with that testimony. And given what we’ve learned in recent weeks (the blatant untruths in Mike’s 2005 lawsuit), I think these claims deserve to be looked at more closely….given there is an obvious pattern of “shenanigans” and lying in these lawsuits.

And agreed 100%, CenturyDeprived.
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The Beach Boys legacy is still being mortared to this day...it has a solid and unbreakable foundation of incredible songs that tower above most bands, yet some bricks are more brittle and ugly than others (even some bricks put down more recently)...thus is the nature of any entity that continues to exist. You are not defined solely by your good achievements in life, you're also defined by those unpleasant moments too. This law of life, thankfully, helps keep us all in check.
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« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2016, 10:08:02 AM »

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« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2016, 10:08:36 AM »

Should we be surprised that Mike may have done some tricks during the 1994 lawsuit?

The decades of resentment and anger built up to the point where Mike saw BW's huge financial settlement and went into for a major payday. One last score from the "golden goose" even after kokomo's success.

*awaits 15 pages of filleplage derailment*  
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And production aside, I’d so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2016, 10:10:51 AM »

Why dredge this up again?  This case was  litigated in court and reached a conclusion.  Each side had an opportunity to present their case and a decision was reached.  You're just spinning wheels rehashing all of this stuff.  And for whatever it's worth, wasn't Steve Love a convicted felon at some point?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 10:11:46 AM by urbanite » Logged
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« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2016, 10:11:54 AM »

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« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2016, 10:30:39 AM »

Emily, these are undeniably serious allegations…as Debbie wrote, it puts someone in serious risk of a libel suit. There is obviously motive here that goes deeper than some sort of attention seeking behavior.

Steve Love gave testimony in a deposition in 2006 that apparently proves that shenanigans took place during the songwriting trial. What Rocky Pamplin recently wrote (10 years after that deposition) seemingly corroborates with that testimony. And given what we’ve learned in recent weeks (the blatant untruths in Mike’s 2005 lawsuit), I think these claims deserve to be looked at more closely….given there is an obvious pattern of “shenanigans” and lying in these lawsuits.

And agreed 100%, CenturyDeprived.

Playing Devil's Advocate here... assuming this tape really is that explosive and it was recorded circa 2005/6... why has no-one made use of it in the last ten years ?
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« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2016, 10:32:57 AM »

Should we be surprised that Mike may have done some tricks during the 1994 lawsuit?

The decades of resentment and anger built up to the point where Mike saw BW's huge financial settlement and went into for a major payday. One last score from the "golden goose" even after kokomo's success.

*awaits 15 pages of filleplage derailment*  

And don't forget that myKe luHv is a greedy opportunist who believes there's still time to fleece Brian for one thing or another. I wouldn't trust the greedster as far as I could pick him up and throw him. Would luHv to see his ass hauled into court over this.  Evil
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« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2016, 10:35:25 AM »

Should we be surprised that Mike may have done some tricks during the 1994 lawsuit?

The decades of resentment and anger built up to the point where Mike saw BW's huge financial settlement and went into for a major payday. One last score from the "golden goose" even after kokomo's success.

*awaits 15 pages of filleplage derailment*  
So, for instance, I entirely agree with SB here. But that doesn't mean that I think Rocky's credible, or Stephen. It's a mistake to give someone credibility simply because what they're saying confirms what you believe to be true.


This is interesting, as my credibility was recently challenged/attacked on another site.  Happily, I was backed up a few days later by someone respected there.  I appreciated the people giving me the benefit of the doubt in the mean time.  I'm not certain anyone is "giving" Stephen credibility.  We're curious as to what further he has to say; thus, the question of this thread.
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« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2016, 10:36:01 AM »

Should we be surprised that Mike may have done some tricks during the 1994 lawsuit?

The decades of resentment and anger built up to the point where Mike saw BW's huge financial settlement and went into for a major payday. One last score from the "golden goose" even after kokomo's success.

*awaits 15 pages of filleplage derailment*  
So, for instance, I entirely agree with SB here. But that doesn't mean that I think Rocky's credible, or Stephen. It's a mistake to give someone credibility simply because what they're saying confirms what you believe to be true.

On the same token, I think to imagine that a close family relative (presumably a person without deep pockets) would go out of their way to concoct some convoluted story that is completely fabricated, of absolutely zero truth whatsoever, is just as farfetched. I cannot fathom how risky and truly stupid a move it would be for a brother to publicly make such claims if they had no validity to them whatsoever. That said, certainly we should think critically about peoples’ motivations, and not just necessarily believe every single word verbatim without considering what could be opposing viewpoints. Perhaps the truth is somewhere in the middle. Even if that’s the case, and if the accusations turn out to be party true, I would imagine it would still not be pretty.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 10:37:00 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2016, 10:41:52 AM »

Emily, these are undeniably serious allegations…as Debbie wrote, it puts someone in serious risk of a libel suit. There is obviously motive here that goes deeper than some sort of attention seeking behavior.

Steve Love gave testimony in a deposition in 2006 that apparently proves that shenanigans took place during the songwriting trial. What Rocky Pamplin recently wrote (10 years after that deposition) seemingly corroborates with that testimony. And given what we’ve learned in recent weeks (the blatant untruths in Mike’s 2005 lawsuit), I think these claims deserve to be looked at more closely….given there is an obvious pattern of “shenanigans” and lying in these lawsuits.

And agreed 100%, CenturyDeprived.
They are very serious allegations and I agree that they deserve to be looked at more closely, but I also think that anyone who at this point says "X is true because Rocky said so" is allowing themselves to be deluded. Additional evidence would be required to convince me of any facts, because of the blatant untruths in Rocky's posts. An obvious pattern of lying is an obvious pattern of lying, no matter who does it. I have no doubt that Mike, who has shown himself to follow unethical practices in lawsuits, pulled any shenanigans he thought of. I think it's unfortunate that the people presenting themselves as witnesses have destroyed their credibility.
Rocky's insults are neither here nor there on this topic. His inability to tell a story without falsehood is what's relevant.


As I haven't been following the Rocky thread too closely I had no idea there were people saying "X is true because Rocky said so" - I too think that is a very illogical mindset to have.

Quote
Why dredge this up again? This case was  litigated in court and reached a conclusion.  Each side had an opportunity to present their case and a decision was reached.  You're just spinning wheels rehashing all of this stuff.  And for whatever it's worth, wasn't Steve Love a convicted felon at some point?

Uhh, because there is one person who claims to have lied in a court of law for that suit in the prosecutors favor...so the conclusion reached for that suit was possibly based on lies. Let's keep in mind that this lawsuit is one of the most famous lawsuits in rock-n-roll history. So I'm not "spinning wheels", just trying to get people to focus on finding the truth...no matter what the truth is.

Is Rocky credible when he makes a lone statement? Based on what I have read, not at all. Is he more credible when the brother of Mike Love and former Beach Boys manager Steve Love corroborates his story? Most definitely. Is he more credible when we know there is a pattern and history of untruths in Mike Love lawsuits? Hell yes.

The only thing I am saying is that it deserves a deeper look. These are serious allegations and we shouldn't take them for fact, but we also shouldn't dismiss them.

As for him being a felon, Steve Love was fully exonerated in 1996.

Playing Devil's Advocate here... assuming this tape really is that explosive and it was recorded circa 2005/6... why has no-one made use of it in the last ten years ?

Here's another question: assuming this tape isn't real, why on earth would Steve Love and Rocky Pamplin make libelous claims about one of the most notoriously litigious people in the entertainment business? That is suicide. Debbie KL says Steve was a bright person back in the day, and considering his posts on the ManvsClown blog, I'd have to say he is still bright. I can't imagine why he would lie publicly about shenanigans that took place.

Btw, curious how you know the tape was recorded circa 2005/6??
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« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2016, 10:46:49 AM »

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« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 12:33:26 PM by Emily » Logged
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« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2016, 10:48:57 AM »

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« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 12:33:07 PM by Emily » Logged
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« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2016, 11:00:15 AM »

Debbie - I don't think you'd done anything to harm your credibility, so to question it was unwarranted. I think both Rocky and Stephen (through Rocky and through the finding of embezzlement) have harmed their credibility. I think the question of the thread is "is Steve Love a Credible Source" and I think not.

CenturyDeprived, I specified above that I think anyone who chooses to believe that everything Rocky says is absolutely NOT true is also following their bias. The problem is that anyone thinking about it honestly without bias would say, at this point, we have no way of determining what he says is true and what he says isn't without independent confirmation.

Bringing up Steve's embezzlement as an issue of credibility? The court wiped those charges clean in 1996. He talks about it in the ManvsClown blog. Debbie KL (who had first hand experience) said Steve Love was a bright man. Again, these allegations are incredibly serious, and though you may not think the people making these accusations are credible, they would basically be committing financial suicide by making these libelous claims unless they had evidence to back it up.

edit: here's a link to the post about the embezzlement: https://manvsclown.wordpress.com/2006/07/21/why-i-hate-mike-love/#comment-6171

This is why I think finding the truth about things is very important on this forum (which is why I would hope people would be more interested in this exact topic). I've seen too much sh*t go down in recent years (having to do with false information, supposedly reliable sources, and other nonsense) that I rarely believe anything I'm told on this or other forums anymore. And there's good reason for that.

Finding the truth, doing your own investigations, using obvious evidence to come to logical conclusions - this is something everyone on this board should do. Otherwise we end up believing that people like Steve embezzled money based on what we're told in a PM or elsewhere.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 11:05:45 AM by rab2591 » Logged

Bill Tobelman's SMiLE site

The Beach Boys legacy is still being mortared to this day...it has a solid and unbreakable foundation of incredible songs that tower above most bands, yet some bricks are more brittle and ugly than others (even some bricks put down more recently)...thus is the nature of any entity that continues to exist. You are not defined solely by your good achievements in life, you're also defined by those unpleasant moments too. This law of life, thankfully, helps keep us all in check.
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« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2016, 11:08:27 AM »

Should we be surprised that Mike may have done some tricks during the 1994 lawsuit?

The decades of resentment and anger built up to the point where Mike saw BW's huge financial settlement and went into for a major payday. One last score from the "golden goose" even after kokomo's success.

*awaits 15 pages of filleplage derailment*  
So, for instance, I entirely agree with SB here. But that doesn't mean that I think Rocky's credible, or Stephen. It's a mistake to give someone credibility simply because what they're saying confirms what you believe to be true.

On the same token, I think to imagine that a close family relative (presumably a person without deep pockets) would go out of their way to concoct some convoluted story that is completely fabricated, of absolutely zero truth whatsoever, is just as farfetched. I cannot fathom how risky and truly stupid a move it would be for a brother to publicly make such claims if they had no validity to them whatsoever. That said, certainly we should think critically about peoples’ motivations, and not just necessarily believe every single word verbatim without considering what could be opposing viewpoints. Perhaps the truth is somewhere in the middle. Even if that’s the case, and if the accusations turn out to be party true, I would imagine it would still not be pretty.

This is interesting, as my credibility was recently challenged/attacked on another site.  Happily, I was backed up a few days later by someone respected there.  I appreciated the people giving me the benefit of the doubt in the mean time.  I'm not certain anyone is "giving" Stephen credibility.  We're curious as to what further he has to say; thus, the question of this thread.

Debbie - I don't think you'd done anything to harm your credibility, so to question it was unwarranted. I think both Rocky and Stephen (through Rocky and through the finding of embezzlement) have harmed their credibility. I think the question of the thread is "is Steve Love a Credible Source" and I think not.

CenturyDeprived, I specified above that I think anyone who chooses to believe that everything Rocky says is absolutely NOT true is also following their bias. The problem is that anyone thinking about it honestly without bias would say, at this point, we have no way of determining what he says is true and what he says isn't without independent confirmation.


I'm not at all ready to say that Stephen isn't a credible source, as I've only seen the one direct quote from him.  I don't know anything about his sentencing and subsequent exoneration, beyond the fact that the exoneration was the end conclusion.  Personally, I appreciated the benefit of the doubt until I was proven to be "credible."
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« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2016, 11:09:05 AM »

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« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 12:32:25 PM by Emily » Logged
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