Pet Sounds played by The Beach Boys

[The Real Barnyard]

I don't know if this topic has been discussed before but:

What if The Beach Boys had played the entire Pet Sounds album in the studio back in 1966 all by themselves with no Wrecking Crew?
I mean a la That's Not Me.
With the same songwriting, same vocals, but different studio musicians, would it have been the same influential, mythical and respected album that it is now?
Songs like Let's Go Away For Awhile would have received another treatment...

Any thoughts?

[Debbie KL]

I don't know if this topic has been discussed before but:

What if The Beach Boys had played the entire Pet Sounds album in the studio back in 1966 all by themselves with no Wrecking Crew?
I mean a la That's Not Me.
With the same songwriting, same vocals, but different studio musicians, would it have been the same influential, mythical and respected album that it is now?
Songs like Let's Go Away For Awhile would have received another treat...

Any thoughts?

 I

I have very definite thoughts.  Brian was the producer getting the sounds that he wanted on each record.  The talents of the Wrecking Crew were clearly needed for what he wanted to do.  First of all, many of the instruments couldn't have been played by the Beach Boys, so that's pretty obvious, so we don't even need to go into skill levels.

Edit:  Notes for another topic.

[SenorPotatoHead]

I would concur with Debbie that to achieve the sounds Brian wanted, some additional musicians were needed.  However, this would not have precluded Carl, Al, Dennis and Bruce playing their usual instruments (as Carl did on many tracks anyway).   It may have taken a bit more time to get the album done that way though, as (one might assume, and potentially erroneously) far more takes would have been required to get a solid take Brian liked. 

[adamghost]

...and would the band have been 100% willing collaborators in the process?  They might well have been less patient than the Wrecking Crew folks, who could get the sound much quicker - plus the Wrecking Crew was working for the producer, whereas Brian was a family member to most of the band and probably couldn't command quite as much absolute authority to make those sound explorations.  The extra time, negotiation and effort required could have slowed or stopped the creative process if the band had tracked all the sessions.  They went along for the vocals but apparently not always smoothly.  Adding heavier instrumental lifting to that workload probably would have been a bridge too far for all concerned.

[Debbie KL]

...and would the band have been 100% willing collaborators in the process?  They might well have been less patient than the Wrecking Crew folks, who could get the sound much quicker - plus the Wrecking Crew was working for the producer, whereas Brian was a family member to most of the band and probably couldn't command quite as much absolute authority to make those sound explorations.  The extra time, negotiation and effort required could have slowed or stopped the creative process if the band had tracked all the sessions.  They went along for the vocals but apparently not always smoothly.  Adding heavier instrumental lifting to that workload probably would have been a bridge too far for all concerned.

Agreed, Adamsghost.  Good observations - not to mention the instruments that Brian wanted that they simply couldn't play.

[the captain]

No.

No disrespect to the band's instrumental abilities, but they were incapable of playing the arrangements Brian Wilson wanted. They couldn't play horns, winds (except Mike's sax...), and strings. And their skills on keyboards, guitars, and bass just weren't equal to those of the people who played, on the whole. Obviously they could have done versions of those songs, and often did so live (though also often with additional musicians supplementing the core band). But would they be the full equals of what we have? I struggle to imagine how. It's like replacing an orchestral piece with a piano reduction. You can do it. But if you don't have to, why?

[The Real Barnyard]

Yes, I know Brian needed the Wrecking Crew to get right the sounds he wanted.
But the purpose of this thread is a "what if". If The Beach Boys themselves had played on those tracks, the album would have been a "Smiley Smile" or a "Wild Honey" type of album? Or a much better album because of the songwriting?
I am thinking about That's Not Me as an example.

[Ian]

Are you saying that the album would be better if the bbs played it instead? Why would them playing everything be better from a listeners perspective?

[The Old Master Painter]

If so, Pet Sounds would be Smile...

[The Real Barnyard]

Are you saying that the album would be better if the bbs played it instead? Why would them playing everything be better from a listeners perspective?

Sorry if I didn't explain myself correctly. I meant "a much better album (than Smiley Smile or Wild Honey) because of the songwriting?"
I just want to discuss what kind of album we would have got if The Beach Boys had played all or almost all the instruments on it.

[Emily]

Yes, I know Brian needed the Wrecking Crew to get right the sounds he wanted.
But the purpose of this thread is a "what if". If The Beach Boys themselves had played on those tracks, the album would have been a "Smiley Smile" or a "Wild Honey" type of album? Or a much better album because of the songwriting?
I am thinking about That's Not Me as an example.

I think I would still prefer it because I prefer the songs themselves and I prefer the sound Brian was trying to generate at that time. Even though he wouldn't have achieved it so well, it would still be more to my taste than the latter two.

[Cam Mott]

If Brian as Producer had wanted to record PS with only the Boys than the sound he would want to achieve would be the sound he could get from the Boys.  I don't know how influential it would be now but it may have been more popular at the time considering Party! charted higher than PS.

[drbeachboy]

Even when the Boys all played on their tracks, many were still augmented with studio musicians. It is really hard for me to imagine a bare bones Pet Sounds. Had this had to happen, I suspect it would have been a different album with possibly a few different songs. I still think that even if Brian had the Boys play, they would have played the basic tracks, then he would have overdubbed the strings and horns. Brian heard these arrangements in his head. I doubt that he would have been very happy with bare bones tracks.

[Ang Jones]

Had only the Beach Boys been playing on Pet Sounds, I doubt the album would have had the same impact. It might have been popular and had some commercial success but it wouldn't have been so innovative, it wouldn't have impressed other musicians so much, maybe The Beatles wouldn't have felt inspired to compete and there could have been a whole waterfall effect on popular music.

[filledeplage]

If Brian as Producer had wanted to record PS with only the Boys than the sound he would want to achieve would be the sound he could get from the Boys.  I don't know how influential it would be now but it may have been more popular at the time considering Party! charted higher than PS.

Cam - I think the studio perfection was the only way to go for Brian. Pet Sounds was a game-changer for me.  The only thing better than Pet Sounds is the Pet Sounds sessions, to hear it while "under construction." I love Trombone Dixie.  And, I wish there were more sessions available.  But, I still maintain that the Pet Sounds' charting had everything to do with under-promotion all the way around and industry politics.

Comparing it to Party is like apples and oranges.  Party is almost like a Beatles cover work but so fun and I love the sessions release.  

Party is like a happy accident.

[Cam Mott]

It is a hypothetical were the Boys are the only musicians.

[filledeplage]

It is a hypothetical were the Boys are the only musicians.

Sorry, Cam, if I was not clear - when I said "studio perfection" being the only way to go - I meant the studio musicians and not the band, meaning, The Wrecking Crew.

 

[Cam Mott]

Maybe I'm not being clear, the comparison I made was between Party!  and a hypothetical Boys only PS.

[filledeplage]

Maybe I'm not being clear, the comparison I made was between Party!  and a hypothetical Boys only PS.

Cam - the track that the OP mentioned was That's Not Me, with a more un-plugged feel. 

Love the tambourine. 

But, I think that the finished/released product is perfect as it is.   

(I still want more sessions!) 

[CenturyDeprived]

Along with the idea of The BBs (and just The BBs) instrumentally performing Pet Sounds, what would it be like if the inverse happened... if other BB albums were entirely instrumentally performed by members of The Wrecking Crew, such as Summer in Paradise, Smiley Smile, MIU Album, etc?

What would a Wrecking Crew-performed Summer in Paradise even sound like?

[SMiLE Brian]

Jesus CD with a crew SIP!

[Magic Transistor Radio]

I don't think it would be as good, but still think it would be very good. That's Not Me is a ne of my favorite tracks!