Awesome New Mike Love Article!!

[Debbie KL]

Sometimes it feels to me like some people are more outraged (or whatever) at Mike's continuing hurt feelings than they are with the people and actions that hurt Mike. 

Sometimes it's not hard to understand why people would have a hard time sympathizing with Mike.  You are talking of what, a thirty+ year grudge even after he won a lawsuit wherein he probably received more money and credit than he deserves?  And he still can't quit bad mouthing a mentally ill man who never really bad mouths him back?

Then he goes on the attack against Al Jardine in a frivolous lawsuit against Brian in regards to Smile?  Despite Al not even being named?  Here are some of the more choice bits from the lawsuit:

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/cassius-love-vs-sonny-wilson-2005-lawsuit-text.67046/

"4. In addition to his songwriting contributions to The Beach Boys, as the longtime front man for the band, Mike Love has been historically recognized as the primary voice and image of The Beach Boys; and Carl Wilson was historically recognized as the musical leader. After Carl’s death in 1998, Alan Jardine announced in the entertainment media that he no longer wished to tour with The Beach Boys; and Mike Love announced privately within BRI that he would no longer tour with Alan Jardine because of Jardine’s long and well documented history of mental and emotional problems, failure to perform, and abusiveness toward other band members. BRI then granted an exclusive license to Mike Love to perform at live concerts using The Beach Boys registered trademark. Since 1998, Mike Love has scrupulously fulfilled his license obligations, using the trademark to perform as The Beach Boys in approximately 150 live concerts per year all over the world. He has paid over eleven million dollars to BRI as royalties on this license.

5. In the same time frame following Carl Wilson’s death, Alan Jardine misappropriated the trademark, bastardized The Beach Boys name, altered the traditional Beach Boys harmonies, line-up and music, defamed Mike Love and The Beach Boys in the media, and then overtly infringed upon the trademark by using it to perform live concerts while duping ticket-buyers into believing it was the BRI-licensed Beach Boys. Jardine wreaked havoc in the marketplace causing BRI to sue for a permanent injunction which was granted and then upheld by the Ninth Circuit in Brother Records, Inc. v Jardine, 318 F.3d 900 (9th Cir. 2003). Although Jardine is still a 25% shareholder and a Director of BRI (receiving 25% of the license revenues), he is an adjudicated infringer who has breached his fiduciary duties to BRI.

6. Like Jardine, Brian Wilson has now with the “give-away” scheme, pursued a path to promote himself, destroy The Beach Boys trademark, and breach his fiduciary duties to BRI and to Mike Love. Historically, these breaches are the continuation of over thirty-five years of conduct by Brian Wilson to damage The Beach Boys and BRI. Between 1961 and 1966 Mike Love and Brian Wilson successfully collaborated with Carl and Dennis Wilson in the creation of hit after hit and album after album in the rapidly growing world of rock and roll music. Mike and Brian are recognized as prodigious song-writing pioneers in the early development of this musical genre. But beginning in 1965, drugs began to destroy Brian Wilson. By 1967, Brian lived either in his bed or in his sand-box in his Beverly Hills mansion. While Mike Love and The Beach Boys were touring without him, Brian was surrounded by drug addicts, drug dealers, parasites, and plagiarizers. In 1967, while Brian was living in an environment of drugs and physical and mental illness, Brian and The Beach Boys created the “Smile” album pursuant to their contract with Capitol Records, and paid for by Capitol. Brian also consulted some of the hangers-on that surrounded him at the time.

7. Between 1967 and 2002, Brian was essentially too ill to do anything but collect his royalties, including revenues from BRI and his 25% share of Mike Love’s license royalties. Between 1991 and 2002, Brian was under a court-ordered conservatorship, first with a court appointed lawyer until 1995, and then with his just married wife. In 2002, Brian began to resurrect his career by touring with his own band. However his “performance” has been, for the most part, limited by his past mental and emotional problems. In order to promote himself, Brian began to misappropriate BRI property. In 2003, he misappropriated “Pet Sounds,” a Beach Boys album, all while serving as a fiduciary to BRI. In September, 2004, Brian Wilson, without permission or a license from BRI, the owner of Smile, orchestrated the scheme to release a Smile CD. Up until then, Smile had been called the most recognized unreleased album in the history of rock ‘n’ roll. Smile has obtained “secondary meaning” as a Beach Boys property, and historically has been identified with The Beach Boys trademark. The defendants here exploited Mike Love and The Beach Boys’ tie-ins with Brian Wilson and Smile to promote the sale of the Smile CD, The Mail on Sunday newspaper, and the services of BigTime.TV.

Sometimes Mike makes it hard to feel bad for Mike.

EoL

Well, I have a few minutes away from family, checked SS, and this powerful piece of information, that most certainly adds a dimension to our view of the RS article, was nearly perfectly derailed.  People here are skilled at that, to say the least.  I doubt Mr. Love's attorneys made these claims without his approval.  So can we discuss how these claims could have possibly been made by someone who keeps insisting how much he loves his cousin and how badly he himself has been treated?  One doesn't even have to do minor historical research to see how false a number of the claims are.  And you fans who "love them all equally" have no objection, much less outrage over this?

[Cam Mott]

If anyone wants to discuss or opine about this: "Sometimes it feels to me like some people are more outraged (or whatever) at Mike's continuing hurt feelings than they are with the people and actions that hurt Mike" instead of diverting and accusing and insulting I'll be around (no need to call me out).

[Ang Jones]

If anyone wants to discuss or opine about this: "Sometimes it feels to me like some people are more outraged (or whatever) at Mike's continuing hurt feelings than they are with the people and actions that hurt Mike" instead of diverting and accusing and insulting I'll be around (no need to call me out).

OK,  I'll answer this. In consideration of the history, what right has Mike to hurt feelings? Mike has received financial reparation, he got the chance to have a reunion (and ended that... badly), he has repeatedly dragged up Brian's drug abuse and mental problems, the way Mike behaved at the R&RHOF, 'Your husband had better write a big hit because he is going to have to write me a big cheque'...... Things like this do not present him in a sympathetic light and therefore people are not inclined to feel sorry for him.

Mike is an extremely wealthy man who seems to enjoy his career.

Brian had an abusive father, mental health issues, Landy and the litigation from Mike to endure. And despite these things has hardly ever been publicly rude to Mike. It's a no brainer.

[Ang Jones]

Had to quote this from the RS interview

'Love has never read the book[ WIBN], which thus allows him to say things like, “At the risk of being facetious, it’s my favorite book I never read, because what books have you ever read that paid you a million dollars?”'

Wow, he is really suffering.

[MaryUSA]

Hi all,

I read the article.  It was interesting.  Mike only hurts Mike when he acts certain ways and makes certain types of statements.  I see this as hype for his book.  I would like to know how Jackie feels about the feud between the two men?  I know that Brian recently made a statement about this.  Nobody wins in a fight like this.   

[Autotune]

The issue here for me is this: Mike is great. Awesome singer and frontman and great songwriting partner to Brian. I am 39 years old, I've lived long enough to have suffered betrayal, cheating, went to through the difficulties of life just like anybody. Now, grudges are part of life. Mike is entitled to his. Why shouldn't he hold grudges? Who on this board has co-written a smash hit song and not been credited for it. How about 4 or 5 massive hit songs? We assume these guys are just pawns in our pre-conceived or learned view of this group. But they are suffering individuals. Heck, Dennis held a grudge through the late 1970s since he learned that Brian had to be convinced by their mother to include him in the group.

[MaryUSA]

Hi all,

Mike is a great front man for The Beach Boys.  Dennis may have had issues with Brian.  What family doesn't have issues with each other?  In the end grudges only hurt the one holding the grudge.  I know that Dennis was right for the group.  I know that for some time Carl held the group together.  I know that Kike watches his money carefully.  That is because of what happened to his father.  Brian is doing what he wants to do.  Each person bought something to the group.  Grudges and fights are part of life.  The thing here is to not allow them to run your life.  Each post here brings something to the board. 

I just hope that we can all enjoy the music and the people.  I smile when I here Love & Mercy, I Can Hear Music and Fun, Fun, Fun. 

Happy Valentine's Day!!!

[Debbie KL]

The issue here for me is this: Mike is great. Awesome singer and frontman and great songwriting partner to Brian. I am 39 years old, I've lived long enough to have suffered betrayal, cheating, went to through the difficulties of life just like anybody. Now, grudges are part of life. Mike is entitled to his. Why shouldn't he hold grudges? Who on this board has co-written a smash hit song and not been credited for it. How about 4 or 5 massive hit songs? We assume these guys are just pawns in our pre-conceived or learned view of this group. But they are suffering individuals. Heck, Dennis held a grudge through the late 1970s since he learned that Brian had to be convinced by their mother to include him in the group.

Knock yourself out.  Enjoy Mike.  Grab your beach ball and go to the show.  No one is trying to stop you.  The endless talking point about a lawsuit that was settle years ago is getting old though.  Re-read the RS article about some of the huge "co-writing" contributions.  Then re-read that 2005 lawsuit.  Do I have to copy and post it again?

[AndrewHickey]

The issue here for me is this: Mike is great. Awesome singer and frontman and great songwriting partner to Brian. I am 39 years old, I've lived long enough to have suffered betrayal, cheating, went to through the difficulties of life just like anybody. Now, grudges are part of life. Mike is entitled to his. Why shouldn't he hold grudges? Who on this board has co-written a smash hit song and not been credited for it. How about 4 or 5 massive hit songs? We assume these guys are just pawns in our pre-conceived or learned view of this group. But they are suffering individuals. Heck, Dennis held a grudge through the late 1970s since he learned that Brian had to be convinced by their mother to include him in the group.

Knock yourself out.  Enjoy Mike.  Grab your beach ball and go to the show.  No one is trying to stop you.  The endless talking point about a lawsuit that was settle years ago is getting old though.  Re-read the RS article about some of the huge "co-writing" contributions.  Then re-read that 2005 lawsuit.  Do I have to copy and post it again?

The 2005 lawsuit was also settled years ago. Talking about that is also "getting old". Mike was largely in the right in the lawsuit over songwriting credits, and he was completely in the wrong in the lawsuit about Smile.

And you fans who "love them all equally" have no objection, much less outrage over this?

A lot of us thought it hugely outrageous *at the time*. Remaining outraged a decade later seems a little much, though.
(Though I don't know if I'm one of those fans who "love them all equally" -- 90% or more of what I love about the Beach Boys comes from Brian. I just don't think Mike is a completely worthless human being with literally no talent, and in the overly-polarised world of Beach Boys fandom that makes me seem to be taking Mike's side a lot of the time.)

[drbeachboy]

Deb, do you not see Mike's band over all this stuff that went on 10 plus years ago?

[drbeachboy]

The issue here for me is this: Mike is great. Awesome singer and frontman and great songwriting partner to Brian. I am 39 years old, I've lived long enough to have suffered betrayal, cheating, went to through the difficulties of life just like anybody. Now, grudges are part of life. Mike is entitled to his. Why shouldn't he hold grudges? Who on this board has co-written a smash hit song and not been credited for it. How about 4 or 5 massive hit songs? We assume these guys are just pawns in our pre-conceived or learned view of this group. But they are suffering individuals. Heck, Dennis held a grudge through the late 1970s since he learned that Brian had to be convinced by their mother to include him in the group.

Knock yourself out.  Enjoy Mike.  Grab your beach ball and go to the show.  No one is trying to stop you.  The endless talking point about a lawsuit that was settle years ago is getting old though.  Re-read the RS article about some of the huge "co-writing" contributions.  Then re-read that 2005 lawsuit.  Do I have to copy and post it again?

The 2005 lawsuit was also settled years ago. Talking about that is also "getting old". Mike was largely in the right in the lawsuit over songwriting credits, and he was completely in the wrong in the lawsuit about Smile.

And you fans who "love them all equally" have no objection, much less outrage over this?

A lot of us thought it hugely outrageous *at the time*. Remaining outraged a decade later seems a little much, though.
(Though I don't know if I'm one of those fans who "love them all equally" -- 90% or more of what I love about the Beach Boys comes from Brian. I just don't think Mike is a completely worthless human being with literally no talent, and in the overly-polarised world of Beach Boys fandom that makes me seem to be taking Mike's side a lot of the time.)

Oh my, finally some sanity.

[Debbie KL]

Deb, do you not see Mike's band over all this stuff that went on 10 plus years ago?

Actually Dr.BB, when Mike is in my area in May, I'll be in the UK on my way to see Brian and his band in Birmingham.  A band described in that 2005 lawsuit this way:

"7. Between 1967 and 2002, Brian was essentially too ill to do anything but collect his royalties, including revenues from BRI and his 25% share of Mike Love’s license royalties. Between 1991 and 2002, Brian was under a court-ordered conservatorship, first with a court appointed lawyer until 1995, and then with his just married wife. In 2002, Brian began to resurrect his career by touring with his own band. However his “performance” has been, for the most part, limited by his past mental and emotional problems. In order to promote himself, Brian began to misappropriate BRI property. In 2003, he misappropriated “Pet Sounds,” a Beach Boys album, all while serving as a fiduciary to BRI. In September, 2004, Brian Wilson, without permission or a license from BRI, the owner of Smile, orchestrated the scheme to release a Smile CD. Up until then, Smile had been called the most recognized unreleased album in the history of rock ‘n’ roll. Smile has obtained “secondary meaning” as a Beach Boys property, and historically has been identified with The Beach Boys trademark. The defendants here exploited Mike Love and The Beach Boys’ tie-ins with Brian Wilson and Smile to promote the sale of the Smile CD, The Mail on Sunday newspaper, and the services of BigTime.TV."

So yeah, having seen Brian and his stellar band and enjoying them tremendously, I continue to do so.  I have my preferences and pay for tickets for the band I want to see.  We all have that option.  Did I find the above paragraph offensive?  I certainly did, on so many levels.  BTW, I personally saw Brian "Between 1967 and 2002" driving around in his pale yellow Mark III with no problems, going to the Ivar offices to audition artists for Brother Records at another BB's request, and overall being quite functional.  I held a number of fully engaged intelligent conversations with him.  And he was always both of those things.  Yeah, this angers me on a number of levels.  I'm sure Mike's band is fine.  I want to see Brian's.  I'm not certain how that makes me "insane." 

[Lee Marshall]

This Rolling Stone magazine article is really not a surprise is it?  It's a constant.  I feel badly for Mike.  He has it ALL...yet...he's convinced himself that he has nothing.  Absoulutely nothing except possessions.  Possessions?  THAT'S how HE measures his success?  I wonder if it'll all fit into his casket?

Along the way he's fought with every one of his band mates.  [perhaps with the exception of David].  Everyone else was/is wrong.  Meditatin' Mike is above their earthly ways.

B.S.  The ONLY thing Mike came away with from his association with ol' Yogi was chasin' skirts and 'relaxing' twice a day.  It would appear that it's done his head absolutely NO GOOD along the way.  There is something wrong with Mike...something upstairs.  Anyone who's spent time in his company will have noticed that even when he's ON SCRIPT he falters when he speaks.

The article [and other interviews] will have disguised this peculiarity...but Michael Edward Love ain't the swiftest horse in the race. 

And THAT'S the bottom line.

[Emily]

Sahaf's nickname, "Baghdad Bob," now denotes someone who confidently declares what everyone else can see is false--someone so wrong, it's funny.

Which isn't really fair, as he was so often right.

[Debbie KL]

Sahaf's nickname, "Baghdad Bob," now denotes someone who confidently declares what everyone else can see is false--someone so wrong, it's funny.

Which isn't really fair, as he was so often right.

Thanks - maybe Baghdad Bob should go to the Sandbox? We have an article we're discussing. 

[Emily]

I think the problem lies in the fact that Mike Love keeps bringing up his gripes in public. Yes, it all happened long ago and most people would probably have moved on if Mike didn't bring it all up all the time (though I'd never seen the text of that lawsuit before. Sheesh).
Also I find it bothersome that in this interview and in other recent ones, he still implies that mental illness is a choice.
I don't find Mike Love very likable generally, but that would remain passive if he didn't actively irritate with these interviews.

[Emily]

Sahaf's nickname, "Baghdad Bob," now denotes someone who confidently declares what everyone else can see is false--someone so wrong, it's funny.

Which isn't really fair, as he was so often right.

Thanks - maybe Baghdad Bob should go to the Sandbox? We have an article we're discussing. 

Just playing.

[Debbie KL]

Sahaf's nickname, "Baghdad Bob," now denotes someone who confidently declares what everyone else can see is false--someone so wrong, it's funny.

Which isn't really fair, as he was so often right.

Thanks - maybe Baghdad Bob should go to the Sandbox? We have an article we're discussing. 

Just playing.

You know I find your posts entertaining, Emily.  It's just that there's such an obvious effort to derail and trivialize things on this thread.  I'd like to see us back on topic.

[Emily]

Sahaf's nickname, "Baghdad Bob," now denotes someone who confidently declares what everyone else can see is false--someone so wrong, it's funny.

Which isn't really fair, as he was so often right.

Thanks - maybe Baghdad Bob should go to the Sandbox? We have an article we're discussing. 

Just playing.

You know I find your posts entertaining, Emily.  It's just that there's such an obvious effort to derail and trivialize things on this thread.  I'd like to see us back on topic.

I get it. Sorry about that. I replied on topic above.

[Autotune]

People, c'mon. He says the same thing in every interview. He is entitled to it. We read all of the interviews he gives-- thus it becomes tiresome and repetitive.

It seems like there are people here that have a capacity to hold grudges equal to Mike's. Some aren't able to let go off Mike's doings in the past and just have to bring them up constantly. We get it. He sued in 2004; he gave angry interviews; he oiled his body in front of a camera; he gave an angry speech; collects cutlery; his humor is sarcastic and sometimes aggresive. So what? Isn't it possible to enjoy his contributions without some obsessed fan bringing up a 20 year old lawsuit? And before anyone says "It's Mike who brought it up first", let me remind you that we are responsible for the issues we bring to the board and the judgement we pass.

[Amy B.]

People, c'mon. He says the same thing in every interview. He is entitled to it. We read all of the interviews he gives-- thus it becomes tiresome and repetitive.

It seems like there are people here that have a capacity to hold grudges equal to Mike's. Some aren't able to let go off Mike's doings in the past and just have to bring them up constantly. We get it. He sued in 2004; he gave angry interviews; he oiled his body in front of a camera; he gave an angry speech; collects cutlery; his humor is sarcastic and sometimes aggresive. So what? Isn't it possible to enjoy his contributions without some obsessed fan bringing up a 20 year old lawsuit? And before anyone says "It's Mike who brought it up first", let me remind you that we are responsible for the issues we bring to the board and the judgement we pass.

Yes, every time Mike does an interview, he stirs our feelings about him yet again, and we have the same debate about his character. However, there's a big difference between his grudges and ours. That is, the things he's griping about took place, for the most part, years ago. The things we're griping about (Mike griping) take place regularly, with every interview he does. Our issue with him is that he just never seems to change or take very much responsibility for his part in these conflicts. We can't let go because he's STILL blaming Brian for his mental illness. He's STILL bringing up addictions and contrasting them with his meditation and health-consciousness. He's STILL complaining about Murry's actions. And all this when the surviving parties against whom he speaks really have very little to say about him in return. I feel like my feelings about Mike are a wound that scab over, and I make peace with him, only to have him come along and pick at the scab every few years. Yuck. I just feel bad for him at this point, because he'll never have any peace.

I'm sure journalists approach him hoping he'll start griping. But he could say, "You know, I don't want to talk about this. It's all been said. Why don't we talk about the music?" Or "I'll tell you some funny stories about the Beach Boys." The guy is a living legend. Why would he want to continue to play the role of rock and roll's most bitter frontman?

[Please delete my account]

I'm experiencing the best and worst of Mike this week - his worst being on display in this interview (or almost any other of his interviews) and in that lawsuit extract. But I'm also finally reading "The Lost Beach Boy" by Jon Stebbins and he comes across as a pretty decent guy from David Marks's account, and even saved his life.

I think his problem is not only that he lacks self-awareness, but also lacks awareness of a lot of other things.

[clack]

One of the more interesting aspects of Mike's character is the contradiction between his almost 50 years practice of TM, and his proudly professed materialism coupled with his seeming lack of introspection. Not to mention the bitterness.
 
Where is the insight? The perspective? Where is the young man who wrote the lyrics to 'The Warmth of the Sun'? I hope we see this side of Mike in his upcoming book.

Mike was ripped off, but that injustice has been redressed, or as redressed as it is possible to be without rewinding history. He's almost 75. Time to let go of his grudges, however justified, and be thankful for all that life has given him.

Thankful for the genius of Brian, and the brilliance of Dennis and Carl, without whom Mike would now be at best a retired small business owner. And even thankful for Uncle Murry, who cheated him of credit and money but who was instrumental in allowing Mike to live a life of wealth, fame, and creative fulfillment.

I wish Mike the peace of releasing his grudges, his anger, his pride, and his hurts.

[Fire Wind]

Mike was ripped off, but that injustice has been redressed, or as redressed as it is possible to be without rewinding history.

Maybe that's part of the problem.  How differently would he have been regarded if was widely known at the time that he was writing the lyrics for the hits?  Redressing it 30 years later can't do much in that regard, because the wider world won't really give a toss at a later stage.  If he's concerned about his position in history, it's a hell of a thing to be robbed of.

At this stage, he can let go all his grudges and live easy, perhaps be a bit more liked by a few people, or he can be a grouchy old man, regularly pissing off about 30 fans on the internet by talking about his grudges.  But there's little difference in those two positions, really, compared to what he's lost.

[Empire Of Love]

Amy and Clark, right on.  He may get a few jabs in against Brian here and there, but Brian probably doesn't really care one way or another what Mike says/does outside of the legal hassle.  However, in the end, he is only hurting himself.  He certainly isn't improving his chances of joining Brian in "the room" anytime soon.

Cam, we are all addressing your point.  It's not that no one is outraged about what offended Mike, it's that (a) the legal victory remedied his complaint well beyond the amount for which even Mike thought he deserved, yet; (b) he won't let it go; (c) he shows almost no compassion toward Brian's medical condition; (d) when he does he usually either precedes it or follows it up with other negative comments about Brian (sometimes in the same article), which communicates a lack of sincerity; (e) he mostly takes little to no responsibility for his part in the mess.

It isn't that no one is outraged, it's that there is nothing left about which to be outraged, yet Mike keeps talking as if there is, and he keeps attacking a person with a medical problem as he does so.  People don't like people that behave like Mike.  They don't like hearing someone attack another person when that person made him a millionaire, has admitted his wrong, has a diagnosed medical problem, and is mostly complimentary in return.  Nothing will change for Mike's public perception until *he* changes the image he projects to the world through these articles.

EoL