The Electoral Process

[the captain]

Does anyone believe that the best campaigners necessarily make the best elected officials? Or that a two-year campaign process--literally the entirety of house members' terms--is necessary, much less appropriate? Or that the sham television ad-selling and front-page-fodder generating events misnamed "debates" produce real, valuable results, as opposed to water cooler talk, chances to mock who looked at his watch, seemed under- or over-rehearsed, or seemed too desperate in his plea for more airtime?

Defend or fix the system. This is the thread for it. Good luck.

[Emily]

If we must remain as a single country, implement a parliamentary system. If we like the slow-to-change effect of our current system, keep the two houses with their substantial constituent differences and reinforce their interdependence by having the ministers come from one house while the other has a veto or something like that.

But a better solution is for the US to divide into 7 separate countries.

[the captain]

I've read nine and 11. What are the seven?

[Emily]

I've read nine and 11. What are the seven?

Southwest (including SoCal), west coast (not including SoCal), interior west, Midwest, southeast, New England including eastern NY but not NYC, mid-Atlantic/Great Lakes.
But I'm not married to this delineation. I can be flexible.

[filledeplage]

If we must remain as a single country, implement a parliamentary system. If we like the slow-to-change effect of our current system, keep the two houses with their substantial constituent differences and reinforce their interdependence by having the ministers come from one house while the other has a veto or something like that.

But a better solution is for the US to divide into 7 separate countries.

Huh? 

[Emily]

If we must remain as a single country, implement a parliamentary system. If we like the slow-to-change effect of our current system, keep the two houses with their substantial constituent differences and reinforce their interdependence by having the ministers come from one house while the other has a veto or something like that.

But a better solution is for the US to divide into 7 separate countries.

Huh? 

Hmm? 

[the captain]

Eh? (Just trying to fit in.)

Emily, would you propose an EU-style federation of sorts between the former-U.S. nations? Or that they'd each remain more wholly independent?

[Emily]

Eh? (Just trying to fit in.)

Emily, would you propose an EU-style federation of sorts between the former-U.S. nations? Or that they'd each remain more wholly independent?

I'd be (provisionally) fine with an EU-type thing. Certainly a Common Market with a shared currency would be good.

[filledeplage]

If we must remain as a single country, implement a parliamentary system. If we like the slow-to-change effect of our current system, keep the two houses with their substantial constituent differences and reinforce their interdependence by having the ministers come from one house while the other has a veto or something like that.

But a better solution is for the US to divide into 7 separate countries.

Huh? 

Hmm? 

How would you divide the geopolitical map?

[Emily]

If we must remain as a single country, implement a parliamentary system. If we like the slow-to-change effect of our current system, keep the two houses with their substantial constituent differences and reinforce their interdependence by having the ministers come from one house while the other has a veto or something like that.

But a better solution is for the US to divide into 7 separate countries.

Huh? 

Hmm? 

How would you divide the geopolitical map?

Answered above.

[filledeplage]

If we must remain as a single country, implement a parliamentary system. If we like the slow-to-change effect of our current system, keep the two houses with their substantial constituent differences and reinforce their interdependence by having the ministers come from one house while the other has a veto or something like that.

But a better solution is for the US to divide into 7 separate countries.

Huh? 

Hmm?  ?
??

How would you divide the geopolitical map?

Answered above.

Not really - explain like I'm in Kindergarten. 

[Emily]

If we must remain as a single country, implement a parliamentary system. If we like the slow-to-change effect of our current system, keep the two houses with their substantial constituent differences and reinforce their interdependence by having the ministers come from one house while the other has a veto or something like that.

But a better solution is for the US to divide into 7 separate countries.

Huh? 

Hmm?  ?
??

How would you divide the geopolitical map?

Answered above.

Not really - explain like I'm in Kindergarten. 

I guess you're going to have to ask the question like I'm in kindergarten. Not being facetious; what do you want to know?

[filledeplage]

If we must remain as a single country, implement a parliamentary system. If we like the slow-to-change effect of our current system, keep the two houses with their substantial constituent differences and reinforce their interdependence by having the ministers come from one house while the other has a veto or something like that.

But a better solution is for the US to divide into 7 separate countries.

Huh? 

Hmm?  ?
??

How would you divide the geopolitical map?

Answered above.

Not really - explain like I'm in Kindergarten. 

I guess you're going to have to ask the question like I'm in kindergarten. Not being facetious; what do you want to know?

The specific regions...Is it New England, Middle Atlantic or a combination of the Appeals Court regions/circuits, of which there are 10 which you would reduce.   

[Emily]

If we must remain as a single country, implement a parliamentary system. If we like the slow-to-change effect of our current system, keep the two houses with their substantial constituent differences and reinforce their interdependence by having the ministers come from one house while the other has a veto or something like that.

But a better solution is for the US to divide into 7 separate countries.

Huh?  

Hmm?  ?
??

How would you divide the geopolitical map?

Answered above.

Not really - explain like I'm in Kindergarten.  

I guess you're going to have to ask the question like I'm in kindergarten. Not being facetious; what do you want to know?

The specific regions...Is it New England, Middle Atlantic or a combination of the Appeals Court regions/circuits, of which there are 10 which you would reduce.  

I'm sorry; I still don't understand what you are looking for. Can you be specific in what my post above (reply #3) is lacking?

[filledeplage]

Emily - We have seven seas.  You envision seven countries for the United States.  I'm looking for the regions they encompass.   

[Emily]

Emily - We have seven seas.  You envision seven countries for the United States.  I'm looking for the regions they encompass.   

Which I answered above. If my answer above is insufficient, please tell me how exactly. I haven't planned this out to the extent that I know at what latitude CA would be divided. I suppose Michigan and Illinois might go either way... Again, I'm not deeply committed to the specifics around the edges.
But if you ask a specific question and I have an opinion on the answer, I'll gladly tell you.

[Emily]

I've read nine and 11. What are the seven?

Southwest (including SoCal), west coast (not including SoCal), interior west, Midwest, southeast, New England including eastern NY but not NYC, mid-Atlantic/Great Lakes.
But I'm not married to this delineation. I can be flexible.

FdP, this is my reply to the Captain regarding the regions (reply #3 above). What further would you like to know?

[filledeplage]

I've read nine and 11. What are the seven?

Southwest (including SoCal), west coast (not including SoCal), interior west, Midwest, southeast, New England including eastern NY but not NYC, mid-Atlantic/Great Lakes.
But I'm not married to this delineation. I can be flexible.

Separate NY from NYC? OMG. Why?

Separate West Coast from SoCal?  OMG.  Really, why?

Really - I thought it was a joke and would/should have integrated those areas with those they are associate with.  

That would destroy the regional integrity and unique identity of each state.  

[Emily]

I've read nine and 11. What are the seven?

Southwest (including SoCal), west coast (not including SoCal), interior west, Midwest, southeast, New England including eastern NY but not NYC, mid-Atlantic/Great Lakes.
But I'm not married to this delineation. I can be flexible.

Separate NY from NYC? OMG. Why?

Separate West Coast from SoCal?  OMG.  Really, why?

Really - I thought it was a joke and would/should have integrated those areas with those they are associate with.  

That would destroy the regional integrity and unique identity of each state.  

Nah - NYC is more culturally, economically and historically connected to New Jersey than to upstate. Eastern upstate is much more culturally New England and Western upstate is very much oriented to the lakes. Buffalo has way more in common culturally, historically and economically with Pittsburgh and Cleveland that with NYC.
Similarly, Southern California has much stronger Southwest ties than Northern California ties. Northern and Southern California have a very frustrating partnership.

[the captain]

I suppose Michigan and Illinois might go either way...

I'll take both, thanks. Give me a nation of Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Iowa, and I'm good. A few key cities, agriculture, industry, mining, timber, some great universities and an educated population...a little more religious than I'd prefer, but it's a solid centrist nation of probably 40-50 million people.

[filledeplage]

I've read nine and 11. What are the seven?

Southwest (including SoCal), west coast (not including SoCal), interior west, Midwest, southeast, New England including eastern NY but not NYC, mid-Atlantic/Great Lakes.
But I'm not married to this delineation. I can be flexible.

Separate NY from NYC? OMG. Why?

Separate West Coast from SoCal?  OMG.  Really, why?

Really - I thought it was a joke and would/should have integrated those areas with those they are associate with.  

That would destroy the regional integrity and unique identity of each state.  

Nah - NYC is more culturally, economically and historically connected to New Jersey than to upstate. Eastern upstate is much more culturally New England and Western upstate is very much oriented to the lakes. Buffalo has way more in common culturally, historically and economically with Pittsburgh and Cleveland that with NYC.
Similarly, Southern California has much stronger Southwest ties than Northern California ties. Northern and Southern California have a very frustrating partnership.

How would you sell it?

And, our voting regions are supposed to be heterogeneous rather than homogeneous.  They are not supposed to be stratified according to race. I would argue that economics, or special interests and industries could emerge with an enormous amount of centralized power, where the industry dwarfs the popular vote. 

Legislators who are lawyers, who have gerrymandered districts according to race have gone to trial and have been disbarred.

That plan would centralize and empower agribusiness as opposed to balance their interests against the general public. In my opinion it would be very un-democratic. States have emerged with state flowers, state products, and have developed pride in the diverse properties (exactly like the great state of NY) - of the topography and culture.  It is a radical concept to divide those regions arbitrarily.

But, this is not Super Bowl talk so it is all good! 

[Emily]

I suppose Michigan and Illinois might go either way...

I'll take both, thanks. Give me a nation of Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Iowa, and I'm good. A few key cities, agriculture, industry, mining, timber, some great universities and an educated population...a little more religious than I'd prefer, but it's a solid centrist nation of probably 40-50 million people.

Quite right I think. Chicago is historically the market for those states. Done.   

[Emily]

I've read nine and 11. What are the seven?

Southwest (including SoCal), west coast (not including SoCal), interior west, Midwest, southeast, New England including eastern NY but not NYC, mid-Atlantic/Great Lakes.
But I'm not married to this delineation. I can be flexible.

Separate NY from NYC? OMG. Why?

Separate West Coast from SoCal?  OMG.  Really, why?

Really - I thought it was a joke and would/should have integrated those areas with those they are associate with.  

That would destroy the regional integrity and unique identity of each state.  

Nah - NYC is more culturally, economically and historically connected to New Jersey than to upstate. Eastern upstate is much more culturally New England and Western upstate is very much oriented to the lakes. Buffalo has way more in common culturally, historically and economically with Pittsburgh and Cleveland that with NYC.
Similarly, Southern California has much stronger Southwest ties than Northern California ties. Northern and Southern California have a very frustrating partnership.

How would you sell it?

If it happens it will be because it sold itself.
*it sold itself to me. I won't pretend the idea's original.
Here's one (kind of lightweight) book on the subject that I read when it came out. The more polarized we become, the more I think it makes sense:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nine_Nations_of_North_America

[filledeplage]

I've read nine and 11. What are the seven?

Southwest (including SoCal), west coast (not including SoCal), interior west, Midwest, southeast, New England including eastern NY but not NYC, mid-Atlantic/Great Lakes.
But I'm not married to this delineation. I can be flexible.

Separate NY from NYC? OMG. Why?

Separate West Coast from SoCal?  OMG.  Really, why?

Really - I thought it was a joke and would/should have integrated those areas with those they are associate with.  

That would destroy the regional integrity and unique identity of each state.  

Nah - NYC is more culturally, economically and historically connected to New Jersey than to upstate. Eastern upstate is much more culturally New England and Western upstate is very much oriented to the lakes. Buffalo has way more in common culturally, historically and economically with Pittsburgh and Cleveland that with NYC.
Similarly, Southern California has much stronger Southwest ties than Northern California ties. Northern and Southern California have a very frustrating partnership.

How would you sell it?

If it happens it will be because it sold itself.
*it sold itself to me. I won't pretend the idea's original.
Here's one (kind of lightweight) book on the subject that I read when it came out. The more polarized we become, the more I think it makes sense:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nine_Nations_of_North_America

Interesting that it included Quebec which attempted to secede most recently in the 1990's. 

With Europe in chaos, right now, I wonder how many are sorry for the EU being established, with pretty much common currency and a relative open border. 

It is an interesting discussion, but would likely be perceived as a divide-and-conquer plan. And even though we are regionalized for purposes of Federal Court Jurisdiction into 10 districts, it seems to be more for regional convenience, but not to change the identity of any individual annexed state to the original 13 colonies.     

[Emily]

I've read nine and 11. What are the seven?

Southwest (including SoCal), west coast (not including SoCal), interior west, Midwest, southeast, New England including eastern NY but not NYC, mid-Atlantic/Great Lakes.
But I'm not married to this delineation. I can be flexible.

Separate NY from NYC? OMG. Why?

Separate West Coast from SoCal?  OMG.  Really, why?

Really - I thought it was a joke and would/should have integrated those areas with those they are associate with.  

That would destroy the regional integrity and unique identity of each state.  

Nah - NYC is more culturally, economically and historically connected to New Jersey than to upstate. Eastern upstate is much more culturally New England and Western upstate is very much oriented to the lakes. Buffalo has way more in common culturally, historically and economically with Pittsburgh and Cleveland that with NYC.
Similarly, Southern California has much stronger Southwest ties than Northern California ties. Northern and Southern California have a very frustrating partnership.

How would you sell it?

And, our voting regions are supposed to be heterogeneous rather than homogeneous.  They are not supposed to be stratified according to race. I would argue that economics, or special interests and industries could emerge with an enormous amount of centralized power, where the industry dwarfs the popular vote.  

Legislators who are lawyers, who have gerrymandered districts according to race have gone to trial and have been disbarred.

That plan would centralize and empower agribusiness as opposed to balance their interests against the general public. In my opinion it would be very un-democratic. States have emerged with state flowers, state products, and have developed pride in the diverse properties (exactly like the great state of NY) - of the topography and culture.  It is a radical concept to divide those regions arbitrarily.

But, this is not Super Bowl talk so it is all good!  

I know a lot of New Yorkers - both upstate and NYC - and I lived in Buffalo for a few years (and grew up half in NJ).. I've never heard anyone from New York intimate that they feel unity within their state.
The division is not at all arbitrary.
This is about a better future, not sentiment for the past. And it has nothing to do with race ().
All of the regions are diverse enough, I think, without the sort of stalemate condition the country is now in.
It's sort of reverse divide and conquer - more divide and be liberated.
PS - regarding how democratic it would be - each country would form a government as they would have it of course. I can't really imagine a less democratic democracy than our current country, however.