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Author Topic: Brian's temple blocks: which notes?  (Read 4088 times)
Yorick
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« on: February 05, 2016, 08:40:35 AM »

Does anyone know which notes the temple blocks Brian used a lot consisted of?

with kind regards,

Yorick
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37!ws
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« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2016, 08:42:00 AM »

Song examples?
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Matt Bielewicz
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« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2016, 11:39:15 AM »

Aren't the temple blocks the sort of rising and falling 'white noise percussion' you hear in the chorus of I Just Wasn't Made For These Times?

When I first heard that, I thought Brian was using oscillators a few years early... then I heard what temple blocks sound like and realised it was probably them...! Very interesting sound for 1966, though.
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JK
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« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2016, 02:03:44 PM »

Assuming "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times" is in B flat (which is what my tuning fork tells me) the pitches seem to be (in ascending order) D, E flat, F and B flat, in the following pattern:

[X = full note rest, x = half note rest, upper case = full note, lower case = half note]

| X D F X  | x b-flat f f e-flat e-flat D |

That first F sounds a bit odd, as if it's two pitches played simultaneously (F + B flat?).

This is just what my ears tell me. I'm quite happy to be proved wrong...
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 01:50:18 AM by john k » Logged

"Ik bun moar een eenvoudige boerenlul en doar schoam ik mien niet veur" (Normaal, 1978)
You're Grass and I'm a Power Mower: A Beach Boys Orchestration Web Series
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Wrightfan
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« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2016, 02:51:15 PM »

I believe Temple Blocks were what he used for "That's Not Me.
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c-man
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« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2016, 06:05:55 PM »

I believe Temple Blocks were what he used for "That's Not Me.

I started a discussion on this here awhile back...to me and others, the percussion sound on "TNM" sounds too "thin" to be your standard temple blocks: To me, it's always sounded a bit like horse shoes on cobblestone. I compared that sound to all sorts of demo videos on YouTube, but couldn't match it. So I asked Brian via one of those "Q&A"s he did last year, and he actually answered: his answer was that it was a "wooden percussion instrument" played by Hal Blaine.
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Shane
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« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2016, 11:31:25 PM »

Whatever it was, it was heavily doused with echo, which can drastically change the sound of a percussion instrument. 

Example: hearing the Sparkletts water bottle without echo on the sessions for "Caroline, No"
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c-man
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« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2016, 08:27:15 AM »

Whatever it was, it was heavily doused with echo, which can drastically change the sound of a percussion instrument. 

Example: hearing the Sparkletts water bottle without echo on the sessions for "Caroline, No"

True, but I don't think echo can change the fundamental pitch of something. The pitch of the echo itself can be another factor to the overall sound, especially if it's mixed as loud or louder than the "dry" sound, and it can also add depth (as with the example you sited of the "Caroline, No" Sparkletts water bottle - which was actually more like a jug). The wooden percussion on "That's Not Me" sounds shallower and "thinner" than the temple blocks on "Let's Go Away For Away For Awhile", for instance - and also shallower and thinner than the sound of dry temple blocks heard on several YouTube demonstration videos that I checked out. I would think that adding the kind of echo that's on the "That's Not Me" percussion would result in making the instrument sound deeper, not shallower. Also, I would think that if they were temple blocks, Brian would have answered my question by at least saying that they were "blocks" or "wooden blocks", if not actually saying "temple blocks": but instead, he said "wooden percussion instrument", indicating it was something other than what was ordinarily used on on his recordings.

On a related topic, it's interesting to note that the wooden percussion on the stereo mix of "That's Not Me" is not as loud as on the mono mix - and according to the liner notes, that's because Brian himself requested that Mark turn that instrument down a bit - apparently the only change he requested upon hearing the Pet Soundsstereo mix for the first time!
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JK
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« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2016, 05:12:36 AM »

I believe Temple Blocks were what he used for "That's Not Me.

I started a discussion on this here awhile back...to me and others, the percussion sound on "TNM" sounds too "thin" to be your standard temple blocks: To me, it's always sounded a bit like horse shoes on cobblestone. I compared that sound to all sorts of demo videos on YouTube, but couldn't match it. So I asked Brian via one of those "Q&A"s he did last year, and he actually answered: his answer was that it was a "wooden percussion instrument" played by Hal Blaine.

The sound reminds me a bit of the clappers (that weren't even ready yet) on "I Do". Any pointers as to how we can find that discussion, c-man?
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"Ik bun moar een eenvoudige boerenlul en doar schoam ik mien niet veur" (Normaal, 1978)
You're Grass and I'm a Power Mower: A Beach Boys Orchestration Web Series
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« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2016, 06:49:55 AM »

Whatever it was, it was heavily doused with echo, which can drastically change the sound of a percussion instrument. 

Example: hearing the Sparkletts water bottle without echo on the sessions for "Caroline, No"

True, but I don't think echo can change the fundamental pitch of something. The pitch of the echo itself can be another factor to the overall sound, especially if it's mixed as loud or louder than the "dry" sound, and it can also add depth (as with the example you sited of the "Caroline, No" Sparkletts water bottle - which was actually more like a jug). The wooden percussion on "That's Not Me" sounds shallower and "thinner" than the temple blocks on "Let's Go Away For Away For Awhile", for instance - and also shallower and thinner than the sound of dry temple blocks heard on several YouTube demonstration videos that I checked out. I would think that adding the kind of echo that's on the "That's Not Me" percussion would result in making the instrument sound deeper, not shallower. Also, I would think that if they were temple blocks, Brian would have answered my question by at least saying that they were "blocks" or "wooden blocks", if not actually saying "temple blocks": but instead, he said "wooden percussion instrument", indicating it was something other than what was ordinarily used on on his recordings.

On a related topic, it's interesting to note that the wooden percussion on the stereo mix of "That's Not Me" is not as loud as on the mono mix - and according to the liner notes, that's because Brian himself requested that Mark turn that instrument down a bit - apparently the only change he requested upon hearing the Pet Soundsstereo mix for the first time!

that and the camera talking on here today getting the axe?
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puni puni
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« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2016, 07:43:50 AM »

That's Not Me percussion = tambourines hit at the same time as some other object (could be anything, side of a drum kit, temple block struck a certain way, etc.)

I Do percussion is also simply a tambourine layered under/over hand claps.
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c-man
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« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2016, 07:54:25 AM »

That's Not Me percussion = tambourines hit at the same time as some other object (could be anything, side of a drum kit, temple block struck a certain way, etc.)

I Do percussion is also simply a tambourine layered under/over hand claps.

We're specifically talking about the non-tambourine percussion on "That's Not Me".

Per request, here's threads to two earlier discussions on that subject:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,20201.msg507591.html#msg507591


http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,22419.25.html

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JK
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« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2016, 12:23:21 PM »

That's Not Me percussion = tambourines hit at the same time as some other object (could be anything, side of a drum kit, temple block struck a certain way, etc.)

I Do percussion is also simply a tambourine layered under/over hand claps.

We're specifically talking about the non-tambourine percussion on "That's Not Me".

Per request, here's threads to two earlier discussions on that subject:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,20201.msg507591.html#msg507591


http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,22419.25.html

Thank you, sir. As mikeddonn says of the BB bass fills topic, "I wish this board was like this thread all the time!"
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"Ik bun moar een eenvoudige boerenlul en doar schoam ik mien niet veur" (Normaal, 1978)
You're Grass and I'm a Power Mower: A Beach Boys Orchestration Web Series
the Carbon Freeze | Eclectic Essays & Art
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« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2016, 04:34:23 PM »

That's Not Me percussion = tambourines hit at the same time as some other object (could be anything, side of a drum kit, temple block struck a certain way, etc.)

I Do percussion is also simply a tambourine layered under/over hand claps.

We're specifically talking about the non-tambourine percussion on "That's Not Me".

Per request, here's threads to two earlier discussions on that subject:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,20201.msg507591.html#msg507591


http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,22419.25.html

Thank you, sir. As mikeddonn says of the BB bass fills topic, "I wish this board was like this thread all the time!"

It makes for a great, and educational read, for sure.  Grin
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puni puni
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« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2016, 12:00:34 PM »

We're specifically talking about the non-tambourine percussion on "That's Not Me".

My point is that the tambourine is the key ingredient that makes it sound like 'horse clops'. The non-tambourine percussion is probably something as simple and makeshift as 2 drum sticks hitting each other. I don't think temple blocks.
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JK
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« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2016, 02:58:50 AM »

Of all the songs on Pet Sounds, "That's Not Me" took me the longest to "get". It seemed closer to a sketch for a song than the finished article.

It felt (and it fact still feels) like sitting in a plane that's moving but doesn't take off until the percussion returns in the coda. And then it all falls into place. :=)

   
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"Ik bun moar een eenvoudige boerenlul en doar schoam ik mien niet veur" (Normaal, 1978)
You're Grass and I'm a Power Mower: A Beach Boys Orchestration Web Series
the Carbon Freeze | Eclectic Essays & Art
c-man
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« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2016, 03:33:59 AM »

We're specifically talking about the non-tambourine percussion on "That's Not Me".

My point is that the tambourine is the key ingredient that makes it sound like 'horse clops'...

Not to my ears.
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c-man
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« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2016, 03:36:14 AM »

A somewhat similar percussion effect is used on "Roller Skating Child" - I've read that those were actual roller skates, either banged together or against some hard surface.
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