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Author Topic: Fall Breaks & Back to Winter  (Read 18812 times)
Steve Latshaw
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« on: January 21, 2016, 08:50:04 AM »

I've been listening to the stereo version of this board's namesake and it just keeps getting better and better; out of the shadow of Smile, a real classic album.  I continually hear wonderful little things buried in the mix.

I noticed for the first time (I've been listening to it since 1977) the persistent repeats of the Woody Woodpecker theme on harmonica (Woody's melodic laugh), and got a huge kick out of it.  I don't know how I missed it; Woody Woodpecker was may favorite cartoon at the tender age of 4.

But here's the real question.  Back in the 70s... the legend, heard repeatedly in the rock press... and in the interviews... was that the "Fire" tapes had been junked or destroyed.  Perhaps this was perpetrated by the Boys to keep the legend alive. I remember the 1978 Jim Ladd/Dennis Wilson interview where he described going into the vaults and listening to the tapes.  In those days we all wondered about those Fire tapes... gosh, what must they sound like to be so frightening.

As we all know now, Fall Breaks was nothing less than a redux of Fire.  I wonder if that was a source of amusement to the band... or at least Brian... that Mrs. O'Leary's Cow had been hiding in plain sight all those years...
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yonderhillside
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« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2016, 09:06:58 AM »

'Twas definitely "a candle", as Brian foresaw, compared to the original, but it's nothing less than a gem from an understated album. Perhaps a source of amusement to the band, perhaps a source of uneasiness and paranoia for Brian.
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« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2016, 10:06:40 AM »

I am surprised that no one ever gave up the secret back then. You would think that it would have come out in interviews done with Anderle or Vosse or even Van Dyke Parks in the late 60's and early 70's.
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« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2016, 10:16:21 AM »

When I listen to Fire (Mrs..) from the Smile Sessions, I don't pick up that it's the same material as FB&BtW until the vocals come in. There are similarities, but it's hard to really pick up to me.
If Anderle et al. never heard the vocals in Fire and weren't listening for it, I can imagine them not noticing the sameness.
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Summertime Blooz
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« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2016, 11:03:09 AM »

This cut sounds so much better in this stereo version. It benefited more than  any other Smiley track from the stereo mix. I used to think years ago, in my Smile introductory times, that it must be Earth because of the metal and wood sounds.
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MarcellaHasDirtyFeet
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« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2016, 12:28:40 PM »

When I listen to Fire (Mrs..) from the Smile Sessions, I don't pick up that it's the same material as FB&BtW until the vocals come in. There are similarities, but it's hard to really pick up to me.
If Anderle et al. never heard the vocals in Fire and weren't listening for it, I can imagine them not noticing the sameness.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the vocals on TSS were actually lifted from Fall Breaks and not recorded for Smile itself. The story is that when Darian played Brian the original Fire, BW started to sing the vocal line from Fall Breaks and that's how it wound up on BWPS, although it was implied that Brian had intended that line to be there during the original Smile sessions.
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The Shift
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« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2016, 01:19:24 PM »

This cut sounds so much better in this stereo version. It benefited more than  any other Smiley track from the stereo mix. I used to think years ago, in my Smile introductory times, that it must be Earth because of the metal and wood sounds.

I think Smiley - and Pet Sounds - were the main beneficiaries of Mark's stereo treatment. It made terrific albums even better. Smiley leaps out of the speakers in stereo and is a different - superior - listening experience.

Fall Breaks… is a seriously earthy track if ever there was one. It bleeds earth!


Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the vocals on TSS were actually lifted from Fall Breaks and not recorded for Smile itself.

That's my take too… right from the first night's performance at the RFH in 2004.
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« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2016, 01:39:06 PM »

This cut sounds so much better in this stereo version. It benefited more than  any other Smiley track from the stereo mix. I used to think years ago, in my Smile introductory times, that it must be Earth because of the metal and wood sounds.

I think Smiley - and Pet Sounds - were the main beneficiaries of Mark's stereo treatment. It made terrific albums even better. Smiley leaps out of the speakers in stereo and is a different - superior - listening experience.

Fall Breaks… is a seriously earthy track if ever there was one. It bleeds earth!


Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the vocals on TSS were actually lifted from Fall Breaks and not recorded for Smile itself.

That's my take too… right from the first night's performance at the RFH in 2004.
I've heard PS in stereo, but not SS - but after reading this, I have to!
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2016, 05:54:52 PM »

I think "Fall Breaks And Back To Winter" was a good example of the dilemma facing The Beach Boys and especially Brian Wilson in 1967. For Beach Boys' diehards and fans of Brian Wlson in particular, "Fall Breaks And Back To Winter" was a cool track. I love it. However, to the casual fan, "Fall Breaks And Back To Winter" was the type of song which caused the Beach Boys' popularity to nosedive and led to the record company dropping them.

And, a similar effect might've happened a second time in the mid-70's when fans bought Endless Summer and Spirit Of America, and then went on to purchase the Warner Brothers' 2fer album, Smiley Smile/Friends.

« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 06:00:07 PM by Sheriff John Stone » Logged
MarcellaHasDirtyFeet
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« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2016, 07:55:09 PM »

Smiley and Friends? That's weird. Somebody pass me the heroin.
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« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2016, 10:53:13 PM »

Mid seventies Reprise put out a pair of double albums, Smiley Smile/Friends and, yes, Wild Honey/20/20, in the wake of Endless Summer. To the considerable surprise of, well, pretty much everyone, they charted at numbers 125 and 50 respectively.
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« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2016, 10:57:06 PM »

Mid seventies Reprise put out a pair of double albums, Smiley Smile/Friends and, yes, Wild Honey/20/20, in the wake of Endless Summer. To the considerable surprise of, well, pretty much everyone, they charted at numbers 125 and 50 respectively.
What's even weirder is that they replaced the original cover art with generic pics of bikini clad girls standing by palm trees. The liner notes in the sets were pretty good, though - especially for the pre-cd era, when you were lucky to get any info of value about the records you had just purchased.
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Phoenix
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« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2016, 11:50:42 PM »

Mid seventies Reprise put out a pair of double albums, Smiley Smile/Friends and, yes, Wild Honey/20/20, in the wake of Endless Summer. To the considerable surprise of, well, pretty much everyone, they charted at numbers 125 and 50 respectively.

Wow. And all this time I thought it was just 15 Big Ones and Love You that killed their career the second time.  It turns out the lo-fi trifecta (Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, and Friends) had a hand in it BOTH times. Those who don't learn from the past....   Roll Eyes
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c-man
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« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2016, 04:15:10 AM »

Mid seventies Reprise put out a pair of double albums, Smiley Smile/Friends and, yes, Wild Honey/20/20, in the wake of Endless Summer. To the considerable surprise of, well, pretty much everyone, they charted at numbers 125 and 50 respectively.

Wow. And all this time I thought it was just 15 Big Ones and Love You that killed their career the second time.  It turns out the lo-fi trifecta (Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, and Friends) had a hand in it BOTH times. Those who don't learn from the past....   Roll Eyes

I've never considered Friends to be lo-fi...I've always thought it had a nice, clean stereo mix. As for the other two mentioned above - yes, I agree that those mono LP mixes are quite "murky", although still enjoyable!
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« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2016, 05:16:11 AM »

I think "Fall Breaks And Back To Winter" was a good example of the dilemma facing The Beach Boys and especially Brian Wilson in 1967. For Beach Boys' diehards and fans of Brian Wlson in particular, "Fall Breaks And Back To Winter" was a cool track. I love it. However, to the casual fan, "Fall Breaks And Back To Winter" was the type of song which caused the Beach Boys' popularity to nosedive and led to the record company dropping them.

And, a similar effect might've happened a second time in the mid-70's when fans bought Endless Summer and Spirit Of America, and then went on to purchase the Warner Brothers' 2fer album, Smiley Smile/Friends.
SJS - Could not agree more.  It was an abstraction in sound and/or mood.  Experimental to the nth degree.  It is a cool but unexpected and sort of shocking track. A dissonance - and opposite of conventional BB harmony.
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« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2016, 05:33:49 AM »

Smiley and Friends? That's weird. Somebody pass me the heroin.

I've got the pairing on vinyl and they actually sound pretty natural back-to-back. Both very mellow, soft-psych masterpieces. It's the only copy of Friends I have so I pull it out pretty often.
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« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2016, 07:26:15 AM »

I think the track sequence hurt the reception of the album - as someone has pointed out, non die-hard Beach Boy fans were turned off by the strangeness of Fall Breaks, and there it is, the third track on the album after the one-two punch of Heroes and Vegetables.  Followed by She's Goin' Bald - most listeners would be tuning out at this point with cries of WTF!  What if the tracks were resequenced?

1. Good Vibrations
2. Wonderful
3. Gettin' Hungry
4. Vegetables
5. She's Goin' Bald


1. Heroes and Villains
2. With Me Tonight
3. She's Goin' Bald
4. Fall Breaks
5. Wind Chimes
6. Whistle In
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Gerry
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« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2016, 08:13:19 AM »

I don't think it was the track sequence that hurt the album at all, it was the album sequence. To follow Pet Sounds with this sh*t album was an insult to the fans. Smiley Smile was the sound of Brian Wilson giving up. Carl called it a bunt instead of a home run, wrong. It was a strikeout in the bottom of the ninth in the seventh game of the World Series. This was the beginning of a lot of trouble for the Brian and Beach Boys that they never quite recovered from.
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« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2016, 08:27:39 AM »

oh I screwed up the sequence for side 1 - Little Pad would end side 1!

I strongly disagree this is a bad album - it was sequenced and mixed poorly.  The stereo mixes rock!

More sympathetic promotion might have helped - more emphasis on the comedy aspects and the "recorded at home"/unplugged aspect, even though it wasn't really unplugged but more minimalist.
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Steve Latshaw
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« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2016, 09:02:25 AM »

<<And, a similar effect might've happened a second time in the mid-70's when fans bought Endless Summer and Spirit Of America, and then went on to purchase the Warner Brothers' 2fer album, Smiley Smile/Friends.>>

Actually, in the summer of 1976. as a High School Junior, I bought both of these twofers right after purchasing Spirit of America, Good Vibrations-Best of the Beach Boys (for Wouldn't It Be Nice), 15 Big Ones and The Beach Boys in Concert.

They didn't turn me off at all.  The liner notes for Smiley Smile were good... and prepared me for hearing something a little bit different than the norm.
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« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2016, 09:23:33 AM »

Mid seventies Reprise put out a pair of double albums, Smiley Smile/Friends and, yes, Wild Honey/20/20, in the wake of Endless Summer. To the considerable surprise of, well, pretty much everyone, they charted at numbers 125 and 50 respectively.

Wow. And all this time I thought it was just 15 Big Ones and Love You that killed their career the second time.  It turns out the lo-fi trifecta (Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, and Friends) had a hand in it BOTH times. Those who don't learn from the past....   Roll Eyes

How do back-catalog re-releases of 7+ year old albums charting that way equate with 1. failure and 2. killing a career? Billboard lists the Top 200 albums...most barely crack that number if at all. #50 for a repackaging of Wild Honey and 20/20 in the mid 70's? Hardly a career killer.
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« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2016, 09:30:19 AM »

However, to the casual fan, "Fall Breaks And Back To Winter" was the type of song which caused the Beach Boys' popularity to nosedive and led to the record company dropping them.

Can we fact-check this? The parting of ways was mutual between Capitol and the band for a variety of reasons, one of those reasons coming from the band realizing Capitol had ripped them off and failed to pay Brian as producer over a million owed in royalty payments. With all that, between Smiley Smile and the end of the Capitol contract, the band charted between the US and the UK markets six top 40 singles. Any big breakout #1 smash hits? No. But it wasn't a nosedive either where the band didn't put anything on the charts.
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« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2016, 09:53:17 AM »

Mid seventies Reprise put out a pair of double albums, Smiley Smile/Friends and, yes, Wild Honey/20/20, in the wake of Endless Summer. To the considerable surprise of, well, pretty much everyone, they charted at numbers 125 and 50 respectively.

Wow. And all this time I thought it was just 15 Big Ones and Love You that killed their career the second time.  It turns out the lo-fi trifecta (Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, and Friends) had a hand in it BOTH times. Those who don't learn from the past....   Roll Eyes

How do back-catalog re-releases of 7+ year old albums charting that way equate with 1. failure and 2. killing a career? Billboard lists the Top 200 albums...most barely crack that number if at all. #50 for a repackaging of Wild Honey and 20/20 in the mid 70's? Hardly a career killer.

In both cases, following Pet Sounds (and the hits that preceded it) and following Endless Summer, people were excited for and expecting more of the same, well produced, radio friendly, pop songs.  Hungry for more, especially in the case of Endless Summer, they bought what was "new" at the record shop and, "Fool me once, shame on me..."  The fact that albums DID sell but DIDN'T translate into further sales, shows the public did NOT like what they heard and, just like in the late-60's, chose to not buy what followed.

Regardless of any merits Smiley Smile, and to a lesser extent, Wild Honey and Friends, may have, what's certain is the sounds of those albums is NOT what the general public wanted from the Beach Boys at either of those points in time and their disappointment with those albums "killed" the bands career once and helped kill it a second time.
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guitarfool2002
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« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2016, 10:10:24 AM »

Mid seventies Reprise put out a pair of double albums, Smiley Smile/Friends and, yes, Wild Honey/20/20, in the wake of Endless Summer. To the considerable surprise of, well, pretty much everyone, they charted at numbers 125 and 50 respectively.

Wow. And all this time I thought it was just 15 Big Ones and Love You that killed their career the second time.  It turns out the lo-fi trifecta (Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, and Friends) had a hand in it BOTH times. Those who don't learn from the past....   Roll Eyes

How do back-catalog re-releases of 7+ year old albums charting that way equate with 1. failure and 2. killing a career? Billboard lists the Top 200 albums...most barely crack that number if at all. #50 for a repackaging of Wild Honey and 20/20 in the mid 70's? Hardly a career killer.

In both cases, following Pet Sounds (and the hits that preceded it) and following Endless Summer, people were excited for and expecting more of the same, well produced, radio friendly, pop songs.  Hungry for more, especially in the case of Endless Summer, they bought what was "new" at the record shop and, "Fool me one, shame on me..."  The fact that albums DID sell but DIDN'T translate into further sales, shows the public did NOT like what they heard and, just like in the late-70's chose not buy what followed.

Regardless of any merits Smiley Smile, and to a lesser extent, Wild Honey and Friends, may have, what's certain is the sounds of those albums is NOT what the general public wanted from the Beach Boys at either of those points in time.

Any fan who bought Endless Summer and thought it was anything but a greatest hits package of the classic hits...most over a decade old at that time ES was released...I'd have to question their intelligence. One was a greatest hits package, the subsequent reissues were reissues, simple as that. If they expected to hear another Surfin USA on the Wild Honey or Friends album, I'd question their stability. I'd also ask them if they'd buy a reissue of Revolver or Rubber Soul expecting to hear another She Loves You on those albums and be disappointed if they did not.

If a band reissued a previous album today, from 7 years ago, and it went to #50 on the album charts, there would be champagne corks popping around the offices of whatever label reissued it.

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« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2016, 10:29:59 AM »

Forever shaking my damn head at the aesthetic wimps that can't get behind Smiley Smile's groundbreaking minimal-art-dada-punk doowop that still sounds ahead of its time today. It is a more radical art statement than I believe Smile would have been, for all its sublime grandiosity.

Bigger ain't always necessarily better, ya know! That's a false dichotomy that was imposed by the breathtaking sweep of Pet Sounds.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2016, 10:33:06 AM by linusoli » Logged
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