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Author Topic: The Greatest American Rock Band of All Time?  (Read 21498 times)
Emily
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« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2016, 08:07:08 PM »

Erm, what about The Miracles or The Temptations or The Four Tops or The Supremes?
These are great groups. I'm having trouble with the definition of 'rock'
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Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2016, 08:14:33 PM »

Erm, what about The Miracles or The Temptations or The Four Tops or The Supremes?
These are great groups. I'm having trouble with the definition of 'rock'

Yes, me too. It's weird. Personally I see more in common between, say, The Beach Boys and The Temptations than The Beach Boys and Metallica and yet it's the latter who are grouped together in the same list.
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Kurosawa
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« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2016, 10:14:50 PM »

Erm, what about The Miracles or The Temptations or The Four Tops or The Supremes?
These are great groups. I'm having trouble with the definition of 'rock'

Yes, me too. It's weird. Personally I see more in common between, say, The Beach Boys and The Temptations than The Beach Boys and Metallica and yet it's the latter who are grouped together in the same list.

Vocal groups like the Temptations and the Four Tops or the Mamas and the Papas are for some reason never regarded as "bands" like groups such as the Beach Boys or The Cars. And duos seem to have their own weird standing, a strange place that isn't exactly a band and isn't a solo act. Otherwise you think you would see the Everlys, the Righteous Brothers, Simon and Garfunkel and Jan & Dean on these lists, but you don't.


My list of greatest American bands are:

1. The Beach Boys
2. Allman Brothers Band
3. Heart
4. Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers
5. ZZTop
6. Journey
7. Pearl Jam
8. The Jackson 5
9. Jefferson Airplane/Jefferson Starship
10. The Eagles

Now if you include vocal acts and duos, then it would be a different list. But for whatever reason "band" seems to be regarded as  "guys with instruments and at least one singer"
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 10:17:53 PM by Kurosawa » Logged

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Ron
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« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2016, 10:48:38 PM »

I have yet to meet someone on the earth that doesn't like the Beach Boys, so I'm not sure how they're not walking away with it.  How soon we forget, I suppose...

If more people understood that modern music is recorded the way it is, because of Good Vibrations, maybe they'd come around...

I think we're just so far removed from the 60's though, there's less and less people who saw them in their prime and can vouch for how big they were. 

The eagles are great, but they never did anything groundbreaking, they just made good music.  The Ramones, in my personal opinion, were groundbreaking but didn't make good music (LOL)

It's all subjective but for me it comes down to the Beach Boys, and the Doors.  The Beatles and the Stones are #1, and #2, Beach Boys #3 if we're trying to rank them.












Fortunately, though, we get to listen to all of them and this whole thing is nonsense.
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Lonely Summer
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« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2016, 10:54:39 PM »

Not sayin' they should be Number 1, but CSNY? The American Beatles. America's first supergroup. First band to do an all stadium tour. American royalty even though half the band wasn't American!
I would pick the groups that spawned CSNY, except that rules out the Hollies; Springfield? Again, that brings up the short career/catalog question. But the Byrds, no problem. They had it all - a career of reasonable length with very interesting twists and turns; commercial success, at least in the early years; great harmonies; great guitar parts that you remember forever; and great songwriting - true, not all of it was theirs, but there's something to be said for the ability to recognize great songs and the ability to mold and adapt them to your own sound.
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KDS
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« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2016, 05:40:27 AM »

Not ranking either of this #1, or even top five, but I think they should be on the list:

Styx
Journey
Heart
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the captain
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« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2016, 06:25:37 AM »

As always, definitions make this kind of thing murky. What's rock 'n' roll, what's a band (versus a duo or something, as mentioned above), and how do you define great?

My personal picks without regard to either record sales or impact on the general public would probably be:

The Beach Boys
The Velvet Underground
Zappa/The Mothers of Invention
Buddy Holly/The Crickets
Big Star

I was tempted to include Dylan + the Band (though they're mostly Canadian...), but that whole "is it a real band, or an artist with backing musicians?" question came into play. Ditto for Prince and the Revolution. I thought about a lot of Motown groups, but had similar misgivings. For some more modern--but still long-standing--acts that don't deserve top ranking consideration at all but are creeping up my lists, I'd start keeping an eye on Wilco, the Mountain Goats, and of Montreal.
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The Heartical Don
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« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2016, 07:39:08 AM »

Any such poll that doesn't feature The Shaggs is useless.
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SMiLE Brian
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« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2016, 07:42:57 AM »

YES LOL
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« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2016, 09:15:59 AM »

They Might Be Giants!!
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KDS
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« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2016, 09:34:54 AM »

I have yet to meet someone on the earth that doesn't like the Beach Boys, so I'm not sure how they're not walking away with it.  How soon we forget, I suppose...

If more people understood that modern music is recorded the way it is, because of Good Vibrations, maybe they'd come around...

I think we're just so far removed from the 60's though, there's less and less people who saw them in their prime and can vouch for how big they were. 

The eagles are great, but they never did anything groundbreaking, they just made good music.  The Ramones, in my personal opinion, were groundbreaking but didn't make good music (LOL)

It's all subjective but for me it comes down to the Beach Boys, and the Doors.  The Beatles and the Stones are #1, and #2, Beach Boys #3 if we're trying to rank them.












Fortunately, though, we get to listen to all of them and this whole thing is nonsense.

Good points, Ron.

In regards to your point about being groundbreaking.  Personally, I think when talking about greatness, the first factor to be considered in the quality of the material. 

With groups like The Beatles, The Beach Boys, Black Sabbath, or Van Halen they're groundbreaking and have great catalogs.

Then, you have bands like The Eagles, Boston, Journey, Styx, et al who didn't really break any new ground, but continued to release quality rock music. 

You mention the Ramones.  I'll say Nirvana as a band that were extremely influential.  But, personally, I think they changed rock for the worse. 
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SteveMC
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« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2016, 10:09:09 AM »

There was a time when REM would be on such lists but they have been forgotten.
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« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2016, 10:22:05 AM »

There was a time when REM would be on such lists but they have been forgotten.

Time is always important in this stuff, first to get someone in, then to shove them out. The cycle may continue indefinitely. The current styles always affect what previous bands are respected, as do generations' own advancement. I think it was Jackson Browne in the Endless Harmony doc who talked about that with the Beach Boys. I'd say a lot of mega-hit bands from the '80s are just coming back into that sphere, while a lot from the '90s are too recent to have done so.
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« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2016, 10:24:01 AM »

There was a time when REM would be on such lists but they have been forgotten.

Time is always important in this stuff, first to get someone in, then to shove them out. The cycle may continue indefinitely. The current styles always affect what previous bands are respected, as do generations' own advancement. I think it was Jackson Browne in the Endless Harmony doc who talked about that with the Beach Boys. I'd say a lot of mega-hit bands from the '80s are just coming back into that sphere, while a lot from the '90s are too recent to have done so.

In the last year, I'm starting to notice more 90s nostalgia.  For the life of me, I don't know why.  Even a lot of the bands I like were putting out bad music in the 1990s.  So, I think you'll start to see that with 90s music very soon. 
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Emily
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« Reply #39 on: January 22, 2016, 10:25:30 AM »

In the mid to late 70s, 50s music and fashion had a revival - late 80s, the 60s - 90s, 70s...
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the captain
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« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2016, 10:43:54 AM »

Exactly. And it doesn't just impact the new music being created, but the appreciation of the old music being reintegrated. It's funny how the greatness of a piece of recorded music that hasn't changed at all can change so much from year to year...
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« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2016, 11:12:00 AM »

I'll say Nirvana as a band that were extremely influential.  But, personally, I think they changed rock for the worse. 

I would agree with that, and I'm a big Nirvana fan from way back.  This prob. isn't the best thread to talk about it, but what the hell.  Here's how I see it, I've seen it with other bands in other genres, too.

Basically, Kurt was great, Nirvana were great, I love their music and liked what they did.  However, the end result of what they did, like you said, was they made Rock different, which made other bands after them change their sound for the worse.  You wouldnt' have even had a steaming pile of a band like Creed if it weren't for Kurt Cobain openly whining in his music before Creed got here and took it to the next, horrible, level.  From time to time you get guys like Kurt Cobain who are extremely talented, and make it look easy... which opens the door for people to come along with no talent, and attempt to do it easily.  Without the talent the music is just god-awful.






Taylor Swift is a good example.  Taylor Swift makes it look easy and if you don't pay attention, you might think she's a no-talent hack.  She's not, though... she's extremely talented, and because her songwriting is so strong and she understand what she's doing, it doesn't matter that she doesn't have the greatest voice in the world.  It's nothing more than average.  Unfortunately what this does is make every kid who can't sing think that they're just as talented. 



In Country Music, it was Big & Rich.  Here's a couple guys who are incredibly talented, and they walked the line and basically created this "Bro Country" crap that's just god awful.  THEIR music that's "Bro Country" is tolerable and kind of interesting, the essentially tribute bands that they 'inspired' though are pretty much all no-talent hacks and now we're stuck with that in Country.   
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« Reply #42 on: January 22, 2016, 11:51:34 AM »

Not sayin' they should be Number 1, but CSNY? The American Beatles. America's first supergroup. First band to do an all stadium tour. American royalty even though half the band wasn't American!

With some obvious exceptions, always thought they were four guys in search of a good song, especially when they were only three. The Doors leave me cold; CCR have some great songs and then they have some great variations on those songs and then they have some variations...; as for Mr Reed, I love his New York album and I love the early Velvets but the 'experimental' stuff does nothing for me. I think you might have a case for Zappa, but maybe he was too obtuse for a lot of people. The Byrds? Not really. It's not like I don't like this stuff (with the exception of The Doors), I just don't think they're on the same level as Brian and the Boys in terms of invention and hooks and melody. I know they're largely Canadian, but, for all their career was pretty short, I'd take The Band over any of the above, with The Beach Boys and Steely Dan ahead of them. If I could limit my Springsteen output to Born to Run tthough Tunnel of Love, I'd have him on my list, but then - despite his band - we're heading into singer-songwriter territory where, for me, Dylan, Simon and Newman are out in front (and Mitchell and Young - though I far prefer the former - if we're allowing Canadians).
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SteveMC
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« Reply #43 on: January 22, 2016, 12:03:41 PM »

I guess the problem is at the end of the day "GREATEST" is subjective.
A great musician or singer is a little easier to list. Also it's tricky when there's a mix of talent levels for ex. I like Steely Dan's music but Fagen's voice, to me, is ugly.

Nirvana left me cold but it's just individual opinion.



With some obvious exceptions, always thought they were four guys in search of a good song, especially when they were only three. The Doors leave me cold; CCR have some great songs and then they have some great variations on those songs and then they have some variations...; as for Mr Reed, I love his New York album and I love the early Velvets but the 'experimental' stuff does nothing for me. I think you might have a case for Zappa, but maybe he was too obtuse for a lot of people. The Byrds? Not really. It's not like I don't like this stuff (with the exception of The Doors), I just don't think they're on the same level as Brian and the Boys in terms of invention and hooks and melody. I know they're largely Canadian, but, for all their career was pretty short, I'd take The Band over any of the above, with The Beach Boys and Steely Dan ahead of them. If I could limit my Springsteen output to Born to Run tthough Tunnel of Love, I'd have him on my list, but then - despite his band - we're heading into singer-songwriter territory where, for me, Dylan, Simon and Newman are out in front (and Mitchell and Young - though I far prefer the former - if we're allowing Canadians).
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« Reply #44 on: January 22, 2016, 02:53:16 PM »

As always, definitions make this kind of thing murky. What's rock 'n' roll, what's a band (versus a duo or something, as mentioned above), and how do you define great?

My personal picks without regard to either record sales or impact on the general public would probably be:

The Beach Boys
The Velvet Underground
Zappa/The Mothers of Invention
Buddy Holly/The Crickets
Big Star

I was tempted to include Dylan + the Band (though they're mostly Canadian...), but that whole "is it a real band, or an artist with backing musicians?" question came into play. Ditto for Prince and the Revolution. I thought about a lot of Motown groups, but had similar misgivings. For some more modern--but still long-standing--acts that don't deserve top ranking consideration at all but are creeping up my lists, I'd start keeping an eye on Wilco, the Mountain Goats, and of Montreal.

Hate that word rock. (Said that before.) Pop is broader. In my jaded opinion.

Captain, I do so agree about your first three but to them I'd like to add Captain Beefheart/Magic Band. Choosing a number five is tough----The Byrds? The Dead? Probably one of those two. Pity about The Band being four-fifths Canadian.  Grin
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the captain
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« Reply #45 on: January 22, 2016, 03:03:34 PM »

I debated the Magic Band, too. And then another couple dozen bands, at which point I realized maybe I ought to cut it short.

As for words like rock, yeah ... I think those sorts of subgenre designations are fine for general description, but they're all fuzzy around the edges at best. Even bigger forms are fuzzy around the edges (e.g., when does jazz become blues, rock, or "classical," which itself is a bad word to begin with?). So I'm with you on pop, as it's at least pretty generally understood to mean popular music as played and listened to mostly by people who don't go to school to learn it. And within that, for me, are pop, rock and roll, folk, blues, country, and the subgenres associated therewith. Still fuzzy at the edges, but at least the edges are further out and less consequential to most conversations.
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« Reply #46 on: January 22, 2016, 04:12:03 PM »

I debated the Magic Band, too. And then another couple dozen bands, at which point I realized maybe I ought to cut it short.

As for words like rock, yeah ... I think those sorts of subgenre designations are fine for general description, but they're all fuzzy around the edges at best. Even bigger forms are fuzzy around the edges (e.g., when does jazz become blues, rock, or "classical," which itself is a bad word to begin with?). So I'm with you on pop, as it's at least pretty generally understood to mean popular music as played and listened to mostly by people who don't go to school to learn it. And within that, for me, are pop, rock and roll, folk, blues, country, and the subgenres associated therewith. Still fuzzy at the edges, but at least the edges are further out and less consequential to most conversations.
The struggle with terminology... I use 'popular' where you suggest 'pop' above because I'm hoping people will understand that I don't mean 'pop' in the narrow sense. But now I've just realized they might think I mean top 40 - 'popular' meaning broadly liked, rather than 'popular' meaning from the people.
What to do?
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the captain
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« Reply #47 on: January 22, 2016, 05:14:54 PM »

What to do?
Realize you'll be misunderstood and just not worry about it.
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« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2016, 06:30:22 PM »

Pity about The Band being four-fifths Canadian.  Grin

Not for us Canadians! Now a list of Greatest Canadian Rock Bands of All Time would be interesting for a discussion amongst predominantly non-Canadians (here, of course, there's a new list every other week...)
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« Reply #49 on: January 22, 2016, 11:11:54 PM »

Surprised I'm not seeing more support here for the Byrds. There was a time when they were always mentioned as one of the most influential bands in rock music. Have they fallen out of favor, like REM?
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