Was there any evidence "Wind Chimes" was Air?

[filledeplage]

Look at other articles also from May 1967 and statements made in those articles by various writers and band members. At that point in the UK there was a lot of talk about why the Heroes single was abandoned or delayed, why the old single was released in its place, and what was going on with a new album or single. Dennis, Bruce, Mike, and Carl at various times said the reason for the holdup was they didn't want to be rushed, and each said a variation of "we want to give the public the best product we can".

Dennis was interviewed the day of the Dublin show while waiting for Carl to fly in from the US to play that first show of the tour in Dublin. He defends the art of it, explains why they didn't release Heroes: "Oh, we got a little frightened. We've got a lot of songs recorded, but we got nervous about whether they were good enough. We've got afraid to put anything out unless it comes up to a certain standard. We're not just putting out singles to sell thousands and earn money."

Bruce was interviewed at a later show on the same leg of the show by the same Keith Altham who wrote the piece published April 29 saying Smile was being readied. After expressing his anger over releasing Then I Kissed Her as a single, he says: "I've got some tapes at home of the new tracks to be on the "Smile" LP which would blow your mind. All the ideas are new and Brian is coming up with fantastic ideas all the time"

Mike in that same article, same interview, after also commenting on the EMI single decision says: "The reason for the hold up with the new single has simply been that we wanted to give our public the best and the best isn't ready yet."

Carl's interviews from roughly the same time suggest Brian was working in the studio.

So add all of that up, the "word" from the band members ranges from Bruce suggesting Smile would be coming out, Dennis saying it will come out when it's ready, and Mike saying something similar.

This same week those interviews were given, Taylor writes that the album was scrapped.

Two weeks after the interviews, Brian is working on "DaDa" following the same template he had been recording Smile previously.

When the Beach Boys returned from the tour, the first week of sessions they did were at Western and Sound Recorders for Vegetables, With Me Tonight, and Cool Cool Water. Not the home studio, which didn't exist and wasn't ready to do sessions, but instead at the "pro studios" Brian had been using all along. The next week, they started using the home studio to start tracking Heroes, followed by Vegetables (again).



Is it out of the question to suggest something major within the band developed between that last Western session and the first "home studio" session which caused such a dramatic shift in the work?

Ironically it was Derek Taylor who - when writing his hype piece (aka PR) for the "new" Heroes single release in July '67, wrote this:

"In one inspired decision, (Nick) Grillo and the Beach Boys were able to a. Make use of Brian Wilson's new house, b. restructure the attitude and atmosphere at recording sessions and c. remove the problem of availability of commercial studios. They built their own 8-track studio in the Spanish house."

Does tracing that line add up to anything, or does it show where the band members' minds were at when talking to Altham and other press people on the UK tour, versus what Derek Taylor was writing? I don't know. But it's there (and more) for consideration.

My question beyond what the hell happened with Taylor's "scrapped" article is what did Taylor later mean when he wrote "b. Restructure the attitude and atmosphere at recording sessions". Any guesses what that refers to? Compromises, perhaps?

That whole top section seems consistent with what comments the band were making on tour with regard Smile. 

They all wanted to "put out the max" in terms of quality for the public and did not want to rush the release.  It would make no sense to me for them to back-pedal, after all those vocal sessions, with just the resources invested. 

In Taylor's defense, if he was leaking out the fact that Brian had multiple job descriptions, (even inadvertently) that he actually saw in the studio, and it became published, it would be harder to defend against not paying Brian for his work.  I do, however,  think Taylor "crossed the line" ethically, where he alludes to "restructure the attitude and atmosphere at recording sessions." 

Attitude? What happens in Vegas stays there.  It is just not discrete.   





 
   

[Andrew G. Doe]

Bruce was interviewed at a later show on the same leg of the show by the same Keith Altham who wrote the piece published April 29 saying Smile was being readied. After expressing his anger over releasing Then I Kissed Her as a single, he says: "I've got some tapes at home of the new tracks to be on the "Smile" LP which would blow your mind. All the ideas are new and Brian is coming up with fantastic ideas all the time"

Mike in that same article, same interview, after also commenting on the EMI single decision says: "The reason for the hold up with the new single has simply been that we wanted to give our public the best and the best isn't ready yet."

Carl's interviews from roughly the same time suggest Brian was working in the studio.

So add all of that up, the "word" from the band members ranges from Bruce suggesting Smile would be coming out, Dennis saying it will come out when it's ready, and Mike saying something similar.

This same week those interviews were given, Taylor writes that the album was scrapped.

So, according to this, Mike goes from telling Altham they want to give of their best to telling Taylor the album has been scrapped in the course of... what, a week or less ? I know these are The Beach Boys with all this implies, but... seriously ?

[Bicyclerider]

Yeah the comments from Mike, Dennis and Bruce suggest to me that it makes much more sense that Brian in a moment of frustration decided to junk Smile, changed his mind for a few weeks, and then decided again to junk it.

Can I throw in another related controversial quote?  I don't have it at hand, but Cam does . . . the quote where Brian says the decision was made not to include some songs on the album (Smiley), and the group almost broke up over that . . . the clear implication is that because Brian didn't want to use Smile tracks like Surf's Up etc, and the group did, that there was dissent within the group and the group almost broke up.

I'm skeptical - has any group member mentioned they wanted to break up the group over this decision?  It certainly seemed like the group was on board for the shift to Smiley, around June-Aug were there any press reports or interviews, then or later, suggesting the group almost broke up?  What were Carl, Dennis, Mike and Al planning to do if the group broke up?  We know there was dissent over the lyrics to some of the songs from Mike, but he's never mentioned dissension over junking the Smile tracks, actually guitar fool's theory implies Mike wanted to junk them and sabotage the project by planting a false report that the tracks had been junked with Derek Taylor.

[guitarfool2002]

Adding to that, specifically addressed to Cam Mott: If as you've suggested Brian's move to the new house was some kind of point where the idea of "Smile" was abandoned, Bruce for one as of May 1967 was still suggesting the Smile album would be released. Their reasons and quotes are listed above.

Further, the notion of using Brian's house to record does not seem to have been on the table until the band returned from Europe at the end of May. Even then, they were still using Western for a series of sessions upon their return. If you trace what Taylor wrote about this time, the decision to record at Brian's house could have (and most likely did) come in that week the band was back at Western in June 1967 still tracking Vegetables sessions.

The way the studio was hastily assembled using rented gear from Wally Heider, a radio station broadcast console (the Gates Dualux) versus an actual studio board, and cables running around the various floors and rooms of the house suggest it was indeed an ad hoc setup and not planned out or constructed in advance. The notion from the July Taylor piece is that the band with Grillo must have worked out some details and changed gears to get working on an album sometime after they returned from Europe, and whatever 'attitude and atmosphere' changes were discussed led to the change in direction that produced an ad hoc studio, a "produced by the Beach Boys" credit, and a total shift in direction from where Brian was recording up to that week in June.

I'm bumping this from the bottom of the last page because the issues are relevant to what's been posted since.

[guitarfool2002]

Yeah the comments from Mike, Dennis and Bruce suggest to me that it makes much more sense that Brian in a moment of frustration decided to junk Smile, changed his mind for a few weeks, and then decided again to junk it.

Can I throw in another related controversial quote?  I don't have it at hand, but Cam does . . . the quote where Brian says the decision was made not to include some songs on the album (Smiley), and the group almost broke up over that . . . the clear implication is that because Brian didn't want to use Smile tracks like Surf's Up etc, and the group did, that there was dissent within the group and the group almost broke up.

I'm skeptical - has any group member mentioned they wanted to break up the group over this decision?  It certainly seemed like the group was on board for the shift to Smiley, around June-Aug were there any press reports or interviews, then or later, suggesting the group almost broke up?  What were Carl, Dennis, Mike and Al planning to do if the group broke up?  We know there was dissent over the lyrics to some of the songs from Mike, but he's never mentioned dissension over junking the Smile tracks, actually guitar fool's theory implies Mike wanted to junk them and sabotage the project by planting a false report that the tracks had been junked with Derek Taylor.

Did I ever say that (in bold) in this discussion? You're putting meanings and implications of your own into what was actually written. I posted essentially what Domenic Priore and Peter Carlin both said and published a decade ago. Whatever implications are there, they didn't come from my keyboard and weren't in my posts.

The quote, Brian Wilson 1968: "Early 1967, I had planned to make an album entitled SMILE. I was working with a guy named Van Dyke Parks, who was collaborating with me on the tunes, and it the process, we came up with a song called ‘Surf’s Up’, and I performed that with just a piano on a documentary show made on rock music. The song ‘Surf’s Up’, that I sang on that documentary never came out on an album, and it was supposed to come out on the SMILE album, and that and a couple of other songs were junked…because…I don’t know why…for some reason didn’t want to put them on the album…and the group nearly broke up, actually split up for good after that…”.

Take it all into consideration, my two posts above, the one with the May 67 quotes, and you see band members saying they want to give the public a good product on their terms, not be rushed, etc., some answers specific to the Heroes single, maybe implications for the Smile album too even though Bruce is the one most openly enthusiastic about "Smile" in his answers. The band is in Europe on tour, Brian holds sessions in line with "Smile" working methods he had been using. Band returns, does about a week of sessions, one at Sound, others at Western, mostly focused on Vegetables (which was where they left off immediately before the tour in mid April) and also With Me Tonight and Cool Cool Water.

If Taylor's July '67 PR piece is accurate, *something* happened between when the band returned to the US, did the week of "pro studio" sessions, then began recording at Brian's home.

In that exact period of time, possibly (and probably), Taylor's report (July 67) described this:

"In one inspired decision, (Nick) Grillo and the Beach Boys were able to a. Make use of Brian Wilson's new house, b. restructure the attitude and atmosphere at recording sessions and c. remove the problem of availability of commercial studios. They built their own 8-track studio in the Spanish house."

The part in bold, "restructure the attitude and atmosphere at recording sessions", what are the implications there? Whose attitude? What exactly was restructured?

Whatever the case, they did begin recording at Brian's house and the album they recorded there had for the first time the credit "Produced by The Beach Boys". Does that coincide with another circa November 1966 (when they arrived in Britain from Stockholm) Alan Walsh interview (subtitled 'Are the five touring Beach Boys merely puppets of sound genius Brian Wilson') with Carl where he talks about the band's contributions and addresses criticism that the group isn't the same without Brian, and defends against the criticisms being leveled then at the live sound of the touring group versus the records. That criticism got worse in May 67, some of the reviews of certain shows were harsh on the band's sound, similar to the previous year but with even more negativity directed at their shows.

Was there something that broke the dam when the band returned from that May 1967 tour? A case could be made that there was, because within weeks they were recording at Brian's house with a piecemeal rented studio setup, with totally new songs and radically different textures and arrangements, and all of this coming after (if Taylor got it right in July 67) a restructuring of attitude and atmosphere at recording sessions.


Two questions:
1 - Is there an answer for why Brian was still recording as he had been with all previous Smile tracks in mid-May 1967 while the band was on tour and in spite of the band's press agent publicly declaring the album D.O.A.?

2 - Can anyone offer anything factual or published that sheds light on what happened those first two weeks of June within the band?

If the answer is "no" to the second one, it's all speculation. But we know what things were like immediately before, and we know what things were like immediately after, and Taylor in July 67 did shed some light on those changes, specifically the decision to use Brian's house to work on the album. The entire game had changed, including future production credits on the music.

[Emily]

Take it all into consideration, my two posts above, the one with the May 67 quotes, and you see band members saying they want to give the public a good product on their terms, not be rushed, etc., some answers specific to the Heroes single, maybe implications for the Smile album too even though Bruce is the one most openly enthusiastic about "Smile" in his answers. The band is in Europe on tour, Brian holds sessions in line with "Smile" working methods he had been using. Band returns, does about a week of sessions, one at Sound, others at Western, mostly focused on Vegetables (which was where they left off immediately before the tour in mid April) and also With Me Tonight and Cool Cool Water.

If Taylor's July '67 PR piece is accurate, *something* happened between when the band returned to the US, did the week of "pro studio" sessions, then began recording at Brian's home.

In that exact period of time, possibly (and probably), Taylor's report (July 67) described this:

"In one inspired decision, (Nick) Grillo and the Beach Boys were able to a. Make use of Brian Wilson's new house, b. restructure the attitude and atmosphere at recording sessions and c. remove the problem of availability of commercial studios. They built their own 8-track studio in the Spanish house."

Given the first paragraph, I don't think you need Taylor at all to make the conclusion that's in the second.

[guitarfool2002]

So, according to this, Mike goes from telling Altham they want to give of their best to telling Taylor the album has been scrapped in the course of... what, a week or less ? I know these are The Beach Boys with all this implies, but... seriously ?

If it adds context to the quotes, the Altham piece appeared in NME's May 27th issue. Derek Taylor's Echo piece appeared May 6th. The comments in the rest of Altham's May piece suggest he met up with them at a gig after they received the NME Poll award, but before they left for the Europe leg of that tour, possibly one of the May 8-10 shows. But if it were after they received the NME award, it would have been after Taylor's "scrapped" article had already hit the newsstands.

[The_Holy_Bee]

This is great stuff. Thank you all.

Further stray thoughts on the chronology:

Dec - Mainly vocal tracking. List of titles sent to Capitol for covers. First major discord with VDP after he is ambushed by Brian into the 'over and over' incident with Mike (Carlin). Pressure mounts for a follow-up single, especially after the unexpected success of GV.
Jan/Feb - Mainly work on H&V for single release, employing sectional/modular recording style which worked so well for GV.
Mar - Recording stops almost completely for the month. Anderle recalls this period as Brian, finding it increasingly difficult to bring H&V at least to completion to his satisfaction, choosing to distract himself with various other side-projects.
April - Mainly work on new version of Vegetables for replacement single. End of month one report says 12 tracks are basically ready; a week later Taylor writes the album is scrapped.

Putting aside the issue of sources, these two statements are not necessarily contradictory. It seems (going from the '66 sessions) that backing tracks for most if not all of the 12 songs on the cover (except, probably, 'Surf's Up' and 'The Elements') might have been complete. Leads still required for 'Worms', 'Child' and 'Cabin Essence', and probably whatever 'Great Shape' was going to be, but elaborate backing vox present and correct on most songs. Something happens around this time, and someone tells Taylor the album's dead in the water.

Is it not possible that the Smile record planned in 1966 may have been almost complete, but not the Smile album Brian was sporadically working on (if, indeed, he was) in early '67? (EDIT: Isn't general satisfaction with the majority of the album tracks also suggested by the fact that work in Jan, Feb and April concentrates almost exclusively on the two songs announced as potential single releases, and one Badman names as an intended B-side? It would seem to be either that or, as Cam posits, possibly that Brian had effectively abandoned the original Smile project over the New Year, and was mainly working to get a 45 out.)

Van Dyke, Vosse and Anderle - collaborators and confidants in a way the band weren't - had all departed by April, and many sources speak of Brian's difficulty in articulating to others the plans inside his head. So one person could say 'almost ready to go' and another 'the album is scrapped', and they might both be telling the truth as they saw it. They'd just be talking about two - or multiple - quite different but intertwined conceptions of the album.

As a analogy, look at the torturous recording process for Guns'n'Roses' 'Chinese Democracy'. This was announced as being almost ready for release several times, and most of them that was probably true - except, as time showed, it wasn't. Different versions of the album may have been almost complete at different times, but not the album that eventually came out. So, like Schrödinger's cat, the record, locked up unseen and unheard inside the studio, was both alive and dead simultaneously.

Intrigued by Guitarfool's suggestion that Brian may have changed his mind in May, attempted briefly to complete 'The Elements' (maybe)/the album with the 'Dada' sessions, and then changed it back - for the last time - in June.

[filledeplage]

Adding to that, specifically addressed to Cam Mott: If as you've suggested Brian's move to the new house was some kind of point where the idea of "Smile" was abandoned, Bruce for one as of May 1967 was still suggesting the Smile album would be released. Their reasons and quotes are listed above.

Further, the notion of using Brian's house to record does not seem to have been on the table until the band returned from Europe at the end of May. Even then, they were still using Western for a series of sessions upon their return. If you trace what Taylor wrote about this time, the decision to record at Brian's house could have (and most likely did) come in that week the band was back at Western in June 1967 still tracking Vegetables sessions.

The way the studio was hastily assembled using rented gear from Wally Heider, a radio station broadcast console (the Gates Dualux) versus an actual studio board, and cables running around the various floors and rooms of the house suggest it was indeed an ad hoc setup and not planned out or constructed in advance. The notion from the July Taylor piece is that the band with Grillo must have worked out some details and changed gears to get working on an album sometime after they returned from Europe, and whatever 'attitude and atmosphere' changes were discussed led to the change in direction that produced an ad hoc studio, a "produced by the Beach Boys" credit, and a total shift in direction from where Brian was recording up to that week in June.

I'm bumping this from the bottom of the last page because the issues are relevant to what's been posted since.

Bicyclerider - I think it is important to realize that Derek Taylor, because of his past relationship with the Beatles, had a reputation that perhaps "he walked on water" and was given a lot of leeway. People just believed what they read. This is not GF's fault.  These myths have taken on a life of their own.

That said, some bad things "did" happen on that tour, notwithstanding what was going on with Capitol and the nascent BRI.  And here is where historic context must be integrated with the scenario.  On May 4th, there was a press conference...

From Badman, p. 184, "Odeon Hammersmith West London...The group's visit to the English capital did not begin well.  At a press conference held at the London Hilton Hotel, Carl storms out. "The press attacked me with nasty questions about my draft resistance." he will recall on BBC radio.  "They treated me like a criminal."

This came on the heels of one week prior, Carl being arrested in NY, the night after his big brother Brian was on Inside Pop, bailed, appearing in Boston on April 28th,  NY and NJ, the 29th, and flying back on April 30th to be in court and face a judge on May 1st, hoping that he would be released to go to Ireland/UK for the tour.  They get there and find out that Then I Kissed Her is released which is cited by GF above..  They are on the heels of GV, Pet Sounds and being regressively promoted with TIKH.  

So, to GF, I think the combination of factors coupled with less than stellar concert reviews, had to be discouraging.  They had brought their own extra musicians (four) and were not allowed to use them because it was against a British Musicians' Union rule to allow them to play.  

Whoever set this tour up should have been sued. Or at the least, fired. Yes those are strong words.  It would likely have been the tour manager (who?) to do all that advance planning to verify in advance that these ancillary musicians were all cleared to perform.  And then these Taylor-made press releases...

  

[Cam Mott]

Adding to that, specifically addressed to Cam Mott: If as you've suggested Brian's move to the new house was some kind of point where the idea of "Smile" was abandoned, Bruce for one as of May 1967 was still suggesting the Smile album would be released. Their reasons and quotes are listed above.

Further, the notion of using Brian's house to record does not seem to have been on the table until the band returned from Europe at the end of May. Even then, they were still using Western for a series of sessions upon their return. If you trace what Taylor wrote about this time, the decision to record at Brian's house could have (and most likely did) come in that week the band was back at Western in June 1967 still tracking Vegetables sessions.

The way the studio was hastily assembled using rented gear from Wally Heider, a radio station broadcast console (the Gates Dualux) versus an actual studio board, and cables running around the various floors and rooms of the house suggest it was indeed an ad hoc setup and not planned out or constructed in advance. The notion from the July Taylor piece is that the band with Grillo must have worked out some details and changed gears to get working on an album sometime after they returned from Europe, and whatever 'attitude and atmosphere' changes were discussed led to the change in direction that produced an ad hoc studio, a "produced by the Beach Boys" credit, and a total shift in direction from where Brian was recording up to that week in June.

I'm bumping this from the bottom of the last page because the issues are relevant to what's been posted since.

Marilyn suggested that the move to the new house was connected to what happened to SMiLE, not the home studio, the home studio wasn't mentioned as having anything to do with it.

If you read above that part in the Taylor July piece you'll find listed the issues the home studio changes were to address I believe.

Brian was the Producer according to Carl and Bruce and Jim Lockert (and the actual recordings) at least and I think we are over estimating how much the Boys knew about the nuts and bolts of what Brian intended and was doing in his Producing. For instance, in a Bravo interview (I think) from July after the release of H&V, Mike was not even aware that the title of the album had been changed to Smiley Smile on/or before July 20.  That still leaves Brian, at least as early as April 4 and on into July, recording non-SMiLE songs for the non-SMiLE album which was titled Smiley Smile and recording lots of music for Smiley Smile without the Boys necessarily knowing the album as Smiley Smile.

[The_Holy_Bee]

I think we are over estimating how much the Boys knew about the nuts and bolts of what Brian intended and was doing in his Producing. For instance, in a Bravo interview (I think) from July after the release of H&V, Mike was not even aware that the title of the album had been changed to Smiley Smile on/or before July 20.

Which rather ties in to what I suggest in my post above.

[Cam Mott]

Code:

I think we are over estimating how much the Boys knew about the nuts and bolts of what Brian intended and was doing in his Producing. For instance, in a Bravo interview (I think) from July after the release of H&V, Mike was not even aware that the title of the album had been changed to Smiley Smile on/or before July 20.

Which rather ties in to what I suggest in my post above.

And was also backed up by Anderle and Vosse in regards to SMiLE and Taylor in his April/May post-SMiLE articles and on into July.

[guitarfool2002]

The house is a red herring, among many. Marilyn also said things about the hassles Brian was getting from the guys over the music, how do we weigh that into the story, more or less than Brian buying a new house? Seriously, with everything going on, the fact Brian moved into a new house was one of the key factors in the history of Smile, seriously?

Did it start in February when Brian and Marilyn were shopping for a house, or just when they signed the papers?

[The_Holy_Bee]

And was also backed up by Anderle and Vosse in regards to SMiLE and Taylor in his April/May post-SMiLE articles and on into July.

Agreed.

[guitarfool2002]

So Brian buying and moving into a new house signaled the end of Smile? Seriously, even by Cam's standards, that's absurd.

[Cam Mott]

The house is a red herring, among many. Marilyn also said things about the hassles Brian was getting from the guys over the music, how do we weigh that into the story, more or less than Brian buying a new house? Seriously, with everything going on, the fact Brian moved into a new house was one of the key factors in the history of Smile, seriously?

Did it start in February when Brian and Marilyn were shopping for a house, or just when they signed the papers?

I keep hearing this. You might want to take it up with Marilyn, your argument isn't with me.

Also, here are reasons for the May decision according to Taylor in July:  “But by mid-Winter 1966/7 the Beach Boys were running into a serious creative impasse. Brian Wilson, constantly harassed by the availability of the right studio---and for him ‘the right studio’ means which ever studio he needs on whim without notice—restricted by the touring needs of the Beach Boys, disturbed by legal complications with Capitol Records, confined by the conventional brevity of the pop single, and pressured by the need of competing with other groups, decided arbitrarily that making records was, for him, no longer a pleasure.”

[Cam Mott]

So Brian buying and moving into a new house signaled the end of Smile? Seriously, even by Cam's standards, that's absurd.

Once again, it is Marilyn's words you find absurd. By the way, are you trying to insult me?

[guitarfool2002]

The house is a red herring, among many. Marilyn also said things about the hassles Brian was getting from the guys over the music, how do we weigh that into the story, more or less than Brian buying a new house? Seriously, with everything going on, the fact Brian moved into a new house was one of the key factors in the history of Smile, seriously?

Did it start in February when Brian and Marilyn were shopping for a house, or just when they signed the papers?

I keep hearing this. You might want to take it up with Marilyn, your argument isn't with me.

Also, here are reasons for the May decision according to Taylor in July:  “But by mid-Winter 1966/7 the Beach Boys were running into a serious creative impasse. Brian Wilson, constantly harassed by the availability of the right studio---and for him ‘the right studio’ means which ever studio he needs on whim without notice—restricted by the touring needs of the Beach Boys, disturbed by legal complications with Capitol Records, confined by the conventional brevity of the pop single, and pressured by the need of competing with other groups, decided arbitrarily that making records was, for him, no longer a pleasure.”

Yet he continued to make Beach Boys records...including those mid-May 67 sessions that were the same working method he had been doing since 1966 regarding Smile sessions, record instrumental tracks, Boys return home and add vocals and finishing touches...The Boys returned from the tour, first week of June Brian was in Western (and Sound) cutting Vegetables sessions with them among others...right where they left off in April before their tour.

Anything else, Cam?

[guitarfool2002]

So Brian buying and moving into a new house signaled the end of Smile? Seriously, even by Cam's standards, that's absurd.

Once again, it is Marilyn's words you find absurd. By the way, are you trying to insult me?

No. Just referencing me having read many of your Smile theories for the past 15 years or so. I don't remember moving into a new house being one of them, even in the old "Cam And Dan Pillowfight" sub-forum on the Smile Shop when things got dicey there.

[The_Holy_Bee]

Re: Studio time, the March break in recording, and the March-April exodus of the 'Smile Faithful' (from Crawdaddy!, mid-'68):

David Anderle: 'That [the 'Fire' tape paranoia] was the first sign that we were going to have problems on this album. That, and the fact that for the first time Brian was having trouble with studios—getting studio time. Then he was having a problem with engineers. Brian was starting to meet a fantastic amount of resistance on all fronts. Like, very slowly everything started to collapse about him. The scene with Van Dyke. Now, that's a critical point. You've gotta remember that originally Van Dyke was gonna do all the lyrics for Smile. Then there was a hassle between Van and Brian and Van wasn't around. So that meant that Brian was now going to have to finish some of the lyrics himself. Well, how was he gonna put his lyrics in with the lyrics already started by Van Dyke? So he stopped recording for a while. Got completely away from music, saying, it's time to get into films. And we all knew what was happening. So he abandoned the studio. Then, there was the business, Brother Records. He got his head into the business aspects of Brother Records. So that kept him out of ... he had another excuse. [...] There was gonna be the Post article by Jules Siegel, he was on television, an incredible amount of excuses not to cut, things to get into. The little film for "Good Vibrations," which took time away, the guys being out of town, whatever, he was clinging onto excuses. And I was very aware of what was happening, but I couldn't put my finger onto why Smile was now starting to nose dive, other than the fact that I still felt at that point that the central thing was Van Dyke's severing of that relationship.

Paul Williams: The creative period had been passed and the specific concept was beginning to slip away.

Anderle: Right.'

[guitarfool2002]

Re: Studio time, the March break in recording, and the March-April exodus of the 'Smile Faithful' (from Crawdaddy!, mid-'68):

David Anderle: 'That [the 'Fire' tape paranoia] was the first sign that we were going to have problems on this album. That, and the fact that for the first time Brian was having trouble with studios—getting studio time. Then he was having a problem with engineers. Brian was starting to meet a fantastic amount of resistance on all fronts. Like, very slowly everything started to collapse about him. The scene with Van Dyke. Now, that's a critical point. You've gotta remember that originally Van Dyke was gonna do all the lyrics for Smile. Then there was a hassle between Van and Brian and Van wasn't around. So that meant that Brian was now going to have to finish some of the lyrics himself. Well, how was he gonna put his lyrics in with the lyrics already started by Van Dyke? So he stopped recording for a while. Got completely away from music, saying, it's time to get into films. And we all knew what was happening. So he abandoned the studio. Then, there was the business, Brother Records. He got his head into the business aspects of Brother Records. So that kept him out of ... he had another excuse. [...] There was gonna be the Post article by Jules Siegel, he was on television, an incredible amount of excuses not to cut, things to get into. The little film for "Good Vibrations," which took time away, the guys being out of town, whatever, he was clinging onto excuses. And I was very aware of what was happening, but I couldn't put my finger onto why Smile was now starting to nose dive, other than the fact that I still felt at that point that the central thing was Van Dyke's severing of that relationship.

Paul Williams: The creative period had been passed and the specific concept was beginning to slip away.

Anderle: Right.'

So now it's Van Dyke leaving as the benchmark, not Brian buying a new house? Was it the first time Van Dyke left, or was it when he came back in March after leaving the first time then left again?

[The_Holy_Bee]

I'm just quoting Anderle. What he says in the quote I posted, as with Taylor's June '67 comments, support the hypothesis that access to studio time was a factor in the dissolution of the Smile project. And we know that one of the key considerations as regard Brian and Marilyn's new house was the hasty installation of a home recording studio. A 'benchmark' factor? I don't know. Just pointing out that a key witness seems to have viewed it as a contributing aspect - along with the departure of Van Dyke Parks as lyricist.

My reading of Anderle's statement would be that he's referring to the final departure of VDP in March, not to his December or February exits. But it's not made explicit by the text, no.

EDIT: What seems to be the case, at least going from the sessionography, recording dates, etc, is that most of the formal songwriting (at least in terms of lyrics) for Smile occurred between May and December 1966, and Van Dyke's involvement in 1967 mainly related to the single version of H&V ('Cantina', etc). Since the only new lyrics we know of being put to tape in '67 are for H&V (and possibly Vega-Tables), and considering the build-up to VDP's final departure appears to have been fairly drawn-out, I'd further suggest that whether or Anderle is referring to December, February or March, or conflating various exits in the interview, is fairly irrelevant. The data that survives firmly suggests that the great majority of Van Dyke's lyrical input occurred pre-December 1966. It's his leaving before the album was completed that matters, not the date on which he did. Vosse, Anderle and Parks himself all seem to agree on this point.

[Cam Mott]

The house is a red herring, among many. Marilyn also said things about the hassles Brian was getting from the guys over the music, how do we weigh that into the story, more or less than Brian buying a new house? Seriously, with everything going on, the fact Brian moved into a new house was one of the key factors in the history of Smile, seriously?

Did it start in February when Brian and Marilyn were shopping for a house, or just when they signed the papers?

I keep hearing this. You might want to take it up with Marilyn, your argument isn't with me.

Also, here are reasons for the May decision according to Taylor in July:  “But by mid-Winter 1966/7 the Beach Boys were running into a serious creative impasse. Brian Wilson, constantly harassed by the availability of the right studio---and for him ‘the right studio’ means which ever studio he needs on whim without notice—restricted by the touring needs of the Beach Boys, disturbed by legal complications with Capitol Records, confined by the conventional brevity of the pop single, and pressured by the need of competing with other groups, decided arbitrarily that making records was, for him, no longer a pleasure.”

Yet he continued to make Beach Boys records...including those mid-May 67 sessions that were the same working method he had been doing since 1966 regarding Smile sessions, record instrumental tracks, Boys return home and add vocals and finishing touches...The Boys returned from the tour, first week of June Brian was in Western (and Sound) cutting Vegetables sessions with them among others...right where they left off in April before their tour.

Anything else, Cam?

Yes he continued to record for the album titled Smiley starting by April and right through into July.  No, that's about it.

[guitarfool2002]

I'm just quoting Anderle. What he says in the quote I posted, as with Taylor's June '67 comments, support the hypothesis that access to studio time was a factor in the dissolution of the Smile project. And we know that one of the key considerations as regard Brian and Marilyn's new house was the hasty installation of a home recording studio. A 'benchmark'? I don't know. Just pointing out that a key witness seems to have viewed it as one - along with the departure of Van Dyke Parks as lyricist.

My reading of Anderle's statement would be that he's referring to the final departure of VDP in March, not to his December or February exits. But it's not made explicit by the text, no.

The last part, yes - Consider when it was the first time Van Dyke left, did work on Smile stop?

Consider this too: Weigh up all of the Smile tracks we know that were in the vault as of the day the Beach Boys left for their long stretch of touring in mid-April 1967.

Many of the instrumental tracks were complete. Someone give a percentage, was it more than half, 75%, or more than that even? I never did the percentages, but i know someone did to compare it to 2004.

What was missing? Vocals. If the group was on tour almost constantly from mid-April into May and for all of May on another continent, what exactly could Brian have been cutting in the studio? The guys who would be adding vocals to the tracks were gone for roughly 6 weeks...in that time, Brian did cut "Love To Say Dada", which has been suggested could have been one of the missing elements to complete that track. Agree or not on that...

But what more could Brian cut if he already had the instrumental tracks in the can waiting for vocals if the band was on tour for 6 weeks?

[Cam Mott]

So Brian buying and moving into a new house signaled the end of Smile? Seriously, even by Cam's standards, that's absurd.

Once again, it is Marilyn's words you find absurd. By the way, are you trying to insult me?

No. Just referencing me having read many of your Smile theories for the past 15 years or so. I don't remember moving into a new house being one of them, even in the old "Cam And Dan Pillowfight" sub-forum on the Smile Shop when things got dicey there.

Oh well good, I can tell by this post, just me I guess.  

No, she said it a long time ago, it was in there, you just missed it I guess.