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Author Topic: Was there any evidence "Wind Chimes" was Air?  (Read 48925 times)
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« Reply #750 on: February 10, 2016, 08:20:22 AM »

To state the obvious, they of course DID use the tracks . . . just as Carl predicted they might.  Prayer, Cabinessence, Cool Cool Water, Surf's Up.  Maybe that was the plan all along, instead of a followup Smile album, use the tracks when they would fit on another album.

Exactly. When they fit, rather than at a time when the band had changed their sound. The plans that were on the table changed, as plans always and often do in the music business.  Smiley


But all had to be finished prior to use; even Prayer had another round of vocal overdubs to lift it to another realm. They were, as such, not part of any ready-to-roll redux.

Carl's the guy who oversaw much of that work to complete them; you'd think he'd've dug out the ready-made versions if he was so sure they existed.
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« Reply #751 on: February 10, 2016, 09:24:37 AM »

Mike didn't say it was finished, rather that they were hoping to release it after the UK tour, which isn't the same thing at all, and given the events of fall 1972, Dennis  was plainly as ill-informed as his younger brother. As we now know, the album was some way from completion.

Just so everything prior is available to view:

Carl stated they'd finished the album. They hadn't. Carl was wrong, as proven by what he said in 1972. Why you cannot grasp this simple fact is beyond everyone else posting here. Carl was not infallible. I don't believe he was lying, but he was most certainly in error in this respect.

Add Mike and Dennis too?

HIT WEEK-May 18 1967 (Dutch magazine).  The band were interviewed in Holland on May 14 and asked why they'd released the two year old single "Then I Kissed Her."  Mike answered: "Of course we'd prefer to release something new and we thought that Smile would be released directly after our British tour but Brian is a perfectionist, that's why it takes so long."   Dennis: "Everything was already finished, also the Heroes and Villains single, but my brother Brian is very serious, I find that a good thing."   Bruce (Discussing the rumor that Brian had decided to scrap Heroes and release Vegetables as a single instead: "Heroes evolved and really became too long for a single.  Vegetables also might be a bit more commercial."

When Carl went to those tapes in '72, more or less he had the following titles from the original back cover which had not been heard or released in any form: Do You Like Worms, I'm In Great Shape, "The Elements", and The Old Master Painter. The others had already been known to fans, some had been revised and reshaped, and several too had been played live and even performed on TV by that time. Could the practicality of the situation have been a factor too, as in what could Carl do with those tracks which would be new to fans to put them into a context where they made sense in light of the way the surrounding tracks had already been heard and were known to fans? Not to mention what could have been seen as creating confusion if they would be basically releasing known tracks in a different context and what might come off as alternate versions instead of something new?

For what I'd say was a majority of the fans at the time Carl thought about working with the Smile tapes, they already knew certain songs as they had appeared on various albums up to the day Carl pulled those tapes off the shelf to listen. The band had already found ways to use certain tracks over the previous 5 years or so, whether the motivation was commercial or something else, they had been doing what Carl said they would be doing back on October 1967: Finding ways to use them.

Let me say again, the point is not that Smile or Smile Redux or whatever else was never released, that's stating the obvious that everyone knows. The point is that when period-correct direct quotes and documentation was requested, examples were provided. And in those examples were direct statements made at the time by three of the four voting members of Brother as it existed in 1967 who were saying things that went against some of the most repeated theories on what was going on with Smile in 1967 and what was planned for the Smile tapes at some point moving forward.

We can look back easily and say "it didn't happen", again that's obvious as 2+2=4. But what led at least two of the three Brother Records voting members (Carl and Dennis) and possibly a third (Mike if we weigh in his comment 'we thought Smile would be released directly after our British tour') to make statements such as they did at the points in the timeline when they did? Keeping in mind too that this was after Derek Taylor declared it scrapped, which in retrospect and factoring in the comments as well as that Capitol memo that there were still some plans in the works months after Taylor's comment. And as BicycleRider pointed out, the release of tracks in the years following 1967 would seem to be part of that plan, after whatever plans were originally on the table had changed.

It's trying to put more context and more evidence into the discussion, with quotes and comments and other evidence that I don't recall being published or even mentioned with anywhere near the weight that the Derek Taylor "scrapped" comment has been repeated for decades. And now, thanks to both the May 67 and October 67 articles reprinted in this thread, there seemed to be more to the story according to the actual band members beyond a PR man reporting something had been scrapped. And one by one, as seen here there are attempts to challenge and even dispute outright the comments from the band members while Taylor's declaration has been taken at face value and accepted as near-Gospel truth in some circles for decades and the ultimate word on what happened to the tapes.

If band members are on the record suggesting there was more to the story, let's find out more about it rather than shutting it all down on the basis of "it never came out", or "it never happened". The issues driving everything from Smile fan-mixers to those trying to suggest the how's and why's of the story for decades has never been limited to "it never came out". It involves what was behind all of this and trying to sort out the contradictions so a more accurate version of events can be presented moving forward when the histories are told.
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« Reply #752 on: February 10, 2016, 09:48:17 AM »

I'm currently away from my  archives, but in 1972, the titles  Carl  listed included previously released material. I'll list them later on.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 09:50:45 AM by Andrew G. Doe » Logged

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« Reply #753 on: February 10, 2016, 12:06:31 PM »


Is it a case of seeing such a quote that doesn't agree with a particular theory or supposition so ways are found to question the accuracy of not just the words but the person speaking them too, and what they may or may not have known at the time based on assumptions rather than the facts?


There is a lot of that going around I guess.

Are we supposed to just ignore the everything that conflicts with Carl and Dennis' claims for some reason, in particular Brian's flat out statements in his own words (and via Taylor) that SMiLE was never finished?
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 12:30:04 PM by Cam Mott » Logged

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« Reply #754 on: February 10, 2016, 03:52:05 PM »

Is it a case of seeing such a quote that doesn't agree with a particular theory or supposition so ways are found to question the accuracy of not just the words but the person speaking them too, and what they may or may not have known at the time based on assumptions rather than the facts?

No. it's a case of looking at a definitive statement that was made almost 50 years ago in the light of subsequent knowledge and further comment, and deciding if the original statement was valid. That's called ongoing research. That's called having an open mind. That's called not having an agenda.

Actually, that last sentence isn't strictly true: I, and others here, do have an agenda, that of trying to document the history of this band that we love as no other as accurately, and as free from bias, as is possible. I think that's a pretty laudable agenda.
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« Reply #755 on: February 11, 2016, 08:19:48 AM »

Just for fun, here's a "10 track Smile" (which I made into a 12 track) that could have been released after Smiley with one session for Worms verse lead vocal (backing vocals for the verse had been done), one for verse lead vocal Cabinessence, and the editing together of the Vegetables sessions already completed with vocals:

Side 1

Prayer (let's make it a "track")
Worms
Wind Chimes
Cabinessence
Holidays (instrumental)
Vegetables

Side 2

Heroes and Villains Part 2 (edit the March "intro" into Gee/the heroes variations from Feb)
Old Master Painter (My Only Sunshine) with Part 2 fade
Wonderful
Mrs. O'Leary's Cow/The Elements
Surf's Up (solo version)
Child is Father to the Man (the short piano/vocal version)

If this was released in Dec 67, I think it would have been a critical success if not a commercial success.  Other "progressive" psychedelic albums were still being released at this time - Magical Mystery Tour, Satanic Majesties - so it would have fit into the zeitgeist of the times.  So AN album was very close to being finished and ready to release, but THE Smile album Brian had in mind was clearly not.
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« Reply #756 on: February 11, 2016, 08:51:59 AM »

Just for fun, here's a "10 track Smile" (which I made into a 12 track) that could have been released after Smiley with one session for Worms verse lead vocal (backing vocals for the verse had been done), one for verse lead vocal Cabinessence, and the editing together of the Vegetables sessions already completed with vocals:

Side 1

Prayer (let's make it a "track")
Worms
Wind Chimes
Cabinessence
Holidays (instrumental)
Vegetables

Side 2

Heroes and Villains Part 2 (edit the March "intro" into Gee/the heroes variations from Feb)
Old Master Painter (My Only Sunshine) with Part 2 fade
Wonderful
Mrs. O'Leary's Cow/The Elements
Surf's Up (solo version)
Child is Father to the Man (the short piano/vocal version)

If this was released in Dec 67, I think it would have been a critical success if not a commercial success.  Other "progressive" psychedelic albums were still being released at this time - Magical Mystery Tour, Satanic Majesties - so it would have fit into the zeitgeist of the times.  So AN album was very close to being finished and ready to release, but THE Smile album Brian had in mind was clearly not.
Bicyclerider - Critical success is difficult to quantify.  So many reviews and reviewers come from people who have bias towards another band, and would marginalize The Beach Boys to advance any of his/her particular favorites. Critics are far from neutral third parties.  They often represent the slant of the owner.  We don't know how that work would have been received or much less promoted, especially after Pet Sounds was criminally under-promoted, in my view.  Surf's Up definitely should have been on that record, either as a solo or BB version.  Carl did utter justice to that song, live, and treated it with the reverence that it merited.

The commercial success would have likely ridden on a cover design that "popped" in the record department among the pop-art of the era.  And the art theme required a concrete unified theme, that teens could connect with.  Teens have a notoriously poor attention span, and the competition for that $3.00 allowance money was great.  At the outside, the older fans would have been college age, with fierce competition for their small amount of money.         

It was not so much that Smile was going to make you smile (although maybe it would) so much as take the listener on a journey across the USA, from Plymouth Rock to Hawaii.  The journey theme, I think became lost in translation with respect to artwork and marketing.   JMHO  Wink
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« Reply #757 on: February 11, 2016, 09:28:39 AM »

The cover art has been explained, it was a deliberate move to have that exact type of cover art as well as an incongruous and unflattering photos of the Beach Boys both on the back cover and in the booklet (specifically like the one of them in freezing Boston Harbor in a boat...) because of the humor concept behind the visuals. As told by Brian to Michael Vosse, the artwork was supposed to make people smile or laugh so they'd let their guard down and open up, since the thought was people are at their most unguarded and open when they were laughing. And at that point, you could either make them laugh more, shock them, or give a dose of honesty. And that was the guiding principle behind the cover designs chosen, the photos chosen, and the way the album was being designed overall. Musically too.
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“Some people think you have to knock somebody down in order to build yourself up, I don’t look at it that way. To the mentality that likes to disparage other people, I say perhaps you should get a life. It’s just wrong thinking in my opinion and I don’t mind saying that.” - Mike Love

"Every single person who criticized Brian for having She & Him, Kacey Musgraves, Sebu and Nate Ruess guesting on his solo album can now officially go heartily f*** themselves." - Wirestone
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« Reply #758 on: February 11, 2016, 09:51:26 AM »

The cover art has been explained, it was a deliberate move to have that exact type of cover art as well as an incongruous and unflattering photos of the Beach Boys both on the back cover and in the booklet (specifically like the one of them in freezing Boston Harbor in a boat...) because of the humor concept behind the visuals. As told by Brian to Michael Vosse, the artwork was supposed to make people smile or laugh so they'd let their guard down and open up, since the thought was people are at their most unguarded and open when they were laughing. And at that point, you could either make them laugh more, shock them, or give a dose of honesty. And that was the guiding principle behind the cover designs chosen, the photos chosen, and the way the album was being designed overall. Musically too.
GF - This not a question of an explanation.  It is a question of what is going to grab your attention in a rack of LP's.  And, to get to the "humor" - it requires a buyer who was drawn not only to the music, but also the cover packaging.  I think it is a disconnect for the the potential buyer who would have to "get beyond" the cover to make the purchase.  It is not rocket science - just being practical.  

There is a place for the sub contexts but I think you have a small window of time to capture people when the market competition is as fierce as it was in 1967.

You don't get a 2nd chance to make a 1st impression  Wink
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 09:52:19 AM by filledeplage » Logged
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« Reply #759 on: February 11, 2016, 06:43:40 PM »

The lead up to the tour.  



Derek Taylor,  D&ME,  Apr. 22, 1967. This article would be for the week of April 11 to 18:

“Well, where were we vis-à-vis the Beach Boys? What I am really doing is stalling because I can not find a facile way to tell you that the most famous single not to have been recorded is not yet recorded.

In other words, and to make the longest record ever made very short a tale, ‘Heroes and Villains’ is not going to be a single. It is however going to make history as one of the ones that got away. The talk now is that it will be an album track on ‘Smile’, the also famous album also not yet complete.

Please understand the Beach Boys delays with product are the result of painful self-criticism. The mirrors into which Brian Wilson looks for reassurance are not always kind. Sometimes there is no reflection at all. His view is that ‘Heroes and Villains’, at present, is tormented with over-elaboration and a score of second thoughts, cruelly chipped from his bump of caution. It was ever thus with great men.

Title of the new single ‘Vege-tables’ (the spelling may be wrong) a light and lyrical day-to-day green-grocer song on which AL JARDINE sings a most vigorous lead.”



Derek Taylor, D&ME,  4/29/67, covering the week of April 18 to 25:

“The Beach Boys? There too is a piquant appetiser for the millions of people who are now rock ‘n roll experts.

They are the longest-lived major pop group in America - they began in 1961 and they are, well you know how big they are. Yet by the erratic pattern of their single releases and the dramatic changes in their albums, they are a constant stimulant to conversation. Where are they at? Who is Brian Wilson? What is going on with ‘Heroes and Villains’? What is ‘Vegetables’ the next single? When is the album ready?”



Derek Taylor, D&ME, May 6 1967, week of April 25 to May 2, the Boys arrived in Dublin May 1:

“BUT ALAS…
Brian Wilson began to stare at the glittering ships of tape and as the day of the launch became nearer than a date on the never-never calendar, he gazed at his plans and he turned his mind’s ear inwards and the longer he stared and the more he heard, the clearer it became that he was now in his jet age, building steamships.
Which couldn’t be right.

In truth, every beautifully designed, finely-wrought inspirationally-welded piece of music made these last months by Brian and his Beach Boy craftsmen has been SCRAPPED.

Not destroyed, but scrapped. For what Wilson seals in a can and destroys is scrapped.

As an average fan of the Beach Boys, I think it is bitterly disappointing. But it isn’t as if one is bereft of the group’s essential spirit – there are 14 albums, many of them incredibly pure and full of life and lovely.

One is, however, deprived of renewal. It is like wait for an heir when the pregnancy is total. It has to come. Has to.

What, then? I don’t know. The Beach Boys don’t know. Brian Wilson, God grant him peace of mind…he doesn’t know.

He is waiting with his nearest Mike and Al and Bruce and his dearest Carl and Dennis. And if it is difficult for them, it is absolutely unbearable for Brian.
It has to come. New single, new album.”



It seems to me the problems Brian has said he had with the never finished SMiLE that caused him to scrap it are being noted by (or before) early April.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 08:46:13 PM by Cam Mott » Logged

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« Reply #760 on: February 12, 2016, 01:51:54 AM »

Thanks for that, Cam. Most instructive, Taylor's lapidary style permitting.
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« Reply #761 on: February 12, 2016, 06:26:03 AM »

Thanks for that, Cam. Most instructive, Taylor's lapidary style permitting.

I wonder what other related info was published from say March through May?
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« Reply #762 on: February 12, 2016, 07:14:08 AM »

There are some nuances in this thread that I'm not sure I understand, particularly around the timing question. It seems that people have different ideas of: the readiness of Smile; and the intended destiny (for which song and for Smile or Smiley Smile) of some tracks.
Other than those, what's being researched/debated? I feel like I'm missing something.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 07:21:57 AM by Emily » Logged
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« Reply #763 on: February 12, 2016, 07:37:54 AM »

The lead up to the tour.  
Derek Taylor,  D&ME,  Apr. 22, 1967. This article would be for the week of April 11 to 18:

“Well, where were we vis-à-vis the Beach Boys? What I am really doing is stalling because I can not find a facile way to tell you that the most famous single not to have been recorded is not yet recorded.

In other words, and to make the longest record ever made very short a tale, ‘Heroes and Villains’ is not going to be a single. It is however going to make history as one of the ones that got away. The talk now is that it will be an album track on ‘Smile’, the also famous album also not yet complete.

Please understand the Beach Boys delays with product are the result of painful self-criticism. The mirrors into which Brian Wilson looks for reassurance are not always kind. Sometimes there is no reflection at all. His view is that ‘Heroes and Villains’, at present, is tormented with over-elaboration and a score of second thoughts, cruelly chipped from his bump of caution. It was ever thus with great men.

Title of the new single ‘Vege-tables’ (the spelling may be wrong) a light and lyrical day-to-day green-grocer song on which AL JARDINE sings a most vigorous lead.”

Derek Taylor, D&ME,  4/29/67, covering the week of April 18 to 25:

“The Beach Boys? There too is a piquant appetiser for the millions of people who are now rock ‘n roll experts.

They are the longest-lived major pop group in America - they began in 1961 and they are, well you know how big they are. Yet by the erratic pattern of their single releases and the dramatic changes in their albums, they are a constant stimulant to conversation. Where are they at? Who is Brian Wilson? What is going on with ‘Heroes and Villains’? What is ‘Vegetables’ the next single? When is the album ready?”

Derek Taylor, D&ME, May 6 1967, week of April 25 to May 2, the Boys arrived in Dublin May 1:

“BUT ALAS…
Brian Wilson began to stare at the glittering ships of tape and as the day of the launch became nearer than a date on the never-never calendar, he gazed at his plans and he turned his mind’s ear inwards and the longer he stared and the more he heard, the clearer it became that he was now in his jet age, building steamships.
Which couldn’t be right.

In truth, every beautifully designed, finely-wrought inspirationally-welded piece of music made these last months by Brian and his Beach Boy craftsmen has been SCRAPPED.

Not destroyed, but scrapped. For what Wilson seals in a can and destroys is scrapped.

As an average fan of the Beach Boys, I think it is bitterly disappointing. But it isn’t as if one is bereft of the group’s essential spirit – there are 14 albums, many of them incredibly pure and full of life and lovely.

One is, however, deprived of renewal. It is like wait for an heir when the pregnancy is total. It has to come. Has to.

What, then? I don’t know. The Beach Boys don’t know. Brian Wilson, God grant him peace of mind…he doesn’t know.

He is waiting with his nearest Mike and Al and Bruce and his dearest Carl and Dennis. And if it is difficult for them, it is absolutely unbearable for Brian.
It has to come. New single, new album.”

It seems to me the problems Brian has said he had with the never finished SMiLE that caused him to scrap it are being noted by (or before) early April.

Cam - I am not buying this.  It runs contrary to the statements of the band at that time.  Editorialized.

http://www.angelfire.com/mn/smileshop/historymott.html

  
« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 07:38:50 AM by filledeplage » Logged
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« Reply #764 on: February 12, 2016, 08:01:32 AM »

I won't ask why Taylor would editorialize by revealing problems and we will just disagree.

I find Taylor to generally be pretty reliable.

Whatever happened to that young fella (appropriately slanged "mott") and his hubris?
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« Reply #765 on: February 12, 2016, 08:08:37 AM »

I won't ask why Taylor would editorialize by revealing problems and we will just disagree.

I find Taylor to generally be pretty reliable.

Whatever happened to that young fella (appropriately slanged "mott") and his hubris?
Cam - the timeline is off.  The band continues to promote Smile during that window. You maintain it was canned in March. 

Their enthusiasm (the band) would have fizzled by late April - early May. 

The band's responses, during interviews, would have gone from "highly enthusiastic" to "rote and rehearsed/scripted."

 
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« Reply #766 on: February 12, 2016, 08:17:23 AM »

I won't ask why Taylor would editorialize by revealing problems and we will just disagree.

I find Taylor to generally be pretty reliable.

Whatever happened to that young fella (appropriately slanged "mott") and his hubris?
Cam - the timeline is off.  The band continues to promote Smile during that window. You maintain it was canned in March. 

Their enthusiasm (the band) would have fizzled by late April - early May. 

The band's responses, during interviews, would have gone from "highly enthusiastic" to "rote and rehearsed/scripted."


Yes but the Boys versions seem to run contrary to Brian's version and I tend to generally see Brian's version as the go-to version since it was his creation and his call as Producer and as others have said Brian didn't really keep the Boys informed which caused problems.  Taylor's version aligns with Brian's imo.
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« Reply #767 on: February 12, 2016, 08:31:33 AM »

I won't ask why Taylor would editorialize by revealing problems and we will just disagree.

I find Taylor to generally be pretty reliable.

Whatever happened to that young fella (appropriately slanged "mott") and his hubris?
Cam - the timeline is off.  The band continues to promote Smile during that window. You maintain it was canned in March. 

Their enthusiasm (the band) would have fizzled by late April - early May. 

The band's responses, during interviews, would have gone from "highly enthusiastic" to "rote and rehearsed/scripted."


Yes but the Boys versions seem to run contrary to Brian's version and I tend to generally see Brian's version as the go-to version since it was his creation and his call as Producer and as others have said Brian didn't really keep the Boys informed which caused problems.  Taylor's version aligns with Brian's imo.
That is Taylor's "narrative." He is a spinmeister.

So, you think that albeit all the distractions, such as Carl's CO trouble, etc., that his own brothers could not "read the handwriting on the wall?" Or the band members? They would not have seen a difference in these sessions which reportedly took place after March and were "going through the motions" and that includes Brian? 

Siblings typically "read each other like a book," and little, if anything gets past them, especially coming from the reportedly tumultuous one they experienced.  They slept in the same room.  Brian washed their clothes on tour.  That is behaving like the responsible oldest kid.  PR people are not good sources.  They tell you what they want to tell you or something scripted.  It is their job.  And their version of the facts.   
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« Reply #768 on: February 12, 2016, 11:10:56 AM »

Could be or the siblings could be spinmeistering.  They would have a vested interest in spinning or damage control I suppose.  Just in the quotes about this period the Boys seem to be wrong or ill-informed and Brian and Taylor seem to be right and informed imo.
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« Reply #769 on: February 12, 2016, 11:34:56 AM »

Could be or the siblings could be spinmeistering.  They would have a vested interest in spinning or damage control I suppose.  Just in the quotes about this period the Boys seem to be wrong or ill-informed and Brian and Taylor seem to be right and informed imo.
Of course the band in going to put a (positive) spin on the album. I doubt that they wanted to spout about Brian giving up on Smile. Doesn't sound good saying you quit in the middle of releasing an album that has been highly talked about in the press. It's an image thing. Can't be seen as quitters. As for Brian, I think Taylor imaged him in his releases as the tortured soul. Strange goings on, really. Almost like there were two camps competing against one another.
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The Brianista Prayer

Oh Brian
Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
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« Reply #770 on: February 12, 2016, 12:19:47 PM »

Also, Taylor was not their PR guy in this period.
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The_Holy_Bee
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« Reply #771 on: March 30, 2018, 11:31:08 PM »

Hi all, sorry to bump an old thread without anything substantive to say - I hope to do so in the next day or two - but I dropped out of the scene about three years ago and missed this wonderful post by IanR:

Quote
Ok
HIT WEEK-May 18 1967 (Dutch magazine).  The band were interviewed in Holland on May 14 and asked why they'd released the two year old single "Then I Kissed Her."  Mike answered: "Of course we'd prefer to release something new and we thought that Smile would be released directly after our British tour but Brian is a perfectionist, that's why it takes so long."   Dennis: "Everything was already finished, also the Heroes and Villains single, but my brother Brian is very serious, I find that a good thing."   Bruce (Discussing the rumor that Brian had decided to scrap Heroes and release Vegetables as a single instead: "Heroes evolved and really became too long for a single.  Vegetables also might be a bit more commercial."  

D & ME May 20 1967 reported: "Contrary to some reports, plans for the 'Heroes and Villains' the group's scheduled new single, have not been completely scrapped.  Roger Easterby of the Howes office, who was with the boys throughout their British tour, said: 'When the boys return to the States they will spend a complete month in the studios completing 'Heroes and Villains' and also working on a new LP."

LA TIMES syndicated story that appeared in July 1967 commented: "Rumor had it that, apart from the legal hassles with Capitol. he (Brian) was not happy with the tapes, which had already been through months of mixing, balancing, splicing and mastering and might never let them be issued as records....On July 5 Brian Wilson finished the tape and invited Capitol's director of artists and repertoire Karl Engemann to the house to hear it.  'I arrived' Engemann said 'and no one was there.  Brian had gotten so excited with the finished tape that he'd taken it to radio station KHJ so he could hear it on the radio.'...The album too will be forthcoming, retitled Smiley Smile-the redundant adjective tacked on apparently as grinning finish to a long quiet hassle."    (this article makes clear-that the situation was being spun as BBs finally finished Smile to their satisfaction-rather than BBs scrapped it and did something new)

In August 12 1967 Melody Maker  Bruce refers to the gap between Good Vibrations and Heroes "came about because we were on a European tour; because we were involved in a lawsuit with our recording company in the States; and because Brian decided to record Heroes and Villains again when we got back from the tour.  He scrapped a finished version of the song and wrote it again.  This version is completely different from the number he wrote first."

Sept 1967 Carl Wilson interview with Pete Johnson of the LA Times: "Those six months were a difficult time for us.  Brian just wasn't happy with Heroes and Villains until he had worked it over and over, throwing out parts and adding new ones.  So we had no new records and we were in a lawsuit with Capitol and then my draft problem developed....

Carl commented that the new album is not the same one that Brian was working on at the time Good Vibrations was released "He still has all those tapes but we decided not to have a complicated album this time.  We did Smiley Smile quickly in a couple of weeks to get something out.  It's not nearly as ambitious an album as Pet Sounds was.

Carl interviewed in Fairfield, CT in Nov 1967 "In the case of Heroes and Villains we didn't feel that it would have the mass appeal so we canned it for awhile and decided to release it. Originally we didn't release it because we didn't think that it would be the kind of song that people would hear on the radio and immediately pick up."

Mike in Beat Instrumental February 1968 (Interview done in BBs brief visit to London in Dec 1967)- Regarding Wild Honey "Sure people were baffled and mystified by Smiley Smile but it was a matter of progression.  We had this feeling that we were going too far, losing touch I guess, and this new one brings us back more into reality....Brian has been re-thinking our recording program and in any case we all have a much greater say nowadays in what we turn out in the studio."

Most of this is fascinating new (to me) material, and even after a long delay am thrilled to have read it. I realise several of the players on this thread are no longer around - Andrew, Cam, etc - but hope there's still some information to be mined on these subjects. Looking forward to reading through the subsequent five pages of posts and maybe positing some new analysis as a result. Happy to cease and desist if what's in the past should be left there, though!

EDIT: Turns out I was still around - and posting, what's more! - after Ian posted his excerpts above. The memory cheats, etc. Which makes this whole post even more pointless. Will try and redeem the bump soon.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2018, 11:40:13 PM by The_Holy_Bee » Logged
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« Reply #772 on: March 31, 2018, 06:55:00 AM »

Hi all, sorry to bump an old thread without anything substantive to say - I hope to do so in the next day or two - but I dropped out of the scene about three years ago and missed this wonderful post by IanR

No apologies necessary, THB. I can think of far worse things! LOL
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« Reply #773 on: April 01, 2018, 02:18:25 AM »

I hadn't been here for a while either and enjoyed reading this so thanks for unearthing it and giving it an airing.  Smiley

I would like to say though that the cover art is rather exceptional and I see nothing strange in it's selection.  When you examine it there is much of the same element of hidden meaning that you get from the music.  Frank Holmes is a very skilled and interesting artist -read http://www.goldminemag.com/articles/even-the-art-of-the-beach-boys-smile-album-tells-a-story - he says of his illustration of 'Surf's Up'

"In this drawing I have used two points of view. There is an aerial view of the floor and a normal head-on view of the wave. This indicated the surreal world of two realities in a dream state. You get more for the asking than a one-on-one investigation of the elements. The wet surf is up, and the wooden floor is down. I arrived at this through the surfer expression of inside-outside wave, a navigation position of where you are in relationship to the wave. I also had access to the song “Surfin’ USA” (… inside, outside, USA …); the lyric line I used was surf’s up inside. I composed this idea with the blue surf wave about to break inside a room with no walls and separated with a white baseboard going east to west. Above the wave is the blue sky with a glowing red sun and a few white clouds. This is a standard cliché and one that ties us to nature. This is where life began and life exists. As the viewer is confronted with the two situations, you realize one belongs to nature and one to man.

On the rustic floor is the depiction of a dance step. There are some arrows, dashes and two footprints denoting the step. This is a pop art idea derived from an advertisement for Arthur Murray Dance Studio lessons found printed in magazines and on matchbook covers to advertise the studio and promote business. The purpose of this element was to direct the eye and create movement to the oil lamp sitting on the floor in a circle of yellow light.

This lamp refers to a simpler time, when there was no electricity and fewer concerns than face us now. The dance-step diagram has a double meaning. It was my chance to employ some wordplay. One is the two-step (a dance) to lamp’s light, and the other is to step (the infinitive) to lamps’ light. The inference is leaving the darkness and stepping to the light or enlightenment. Or, dancing the two-step to the light or enlightenment; it doesn’t matter how you do it, just get it done. We are living in the present and looking at the past, where the light and enlightenment were elusive guideposts.
The red sun represents eternal light through nature. We connect with the force of nature and rely on it to be there when we need it. Just as the wave breaks on the shore in rhythmic patterns, we recognize the similarity to our own patterns in life. All of these elements, both direct and indirect, reflect the mood and atmosphere of this one important aspect of “Surf’s Up.” This work is a result of my freedom to create in a personal way by interpretation without acknowledging any suggestions from the outside. Having had this opportunity, I realize and appreciate this rare occasion of how this can represent the true reflection of a free spirit."
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mojoman
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« Reply #774 on: April 05, 2018, 01:25:51 PM »

I think Love to Say Da Da was meant to be Air ... it's a piano piece, with bird sounds.  Later it morphed into other songs.
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