Thought Id Save the Admins some trouble and just post this here

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

So Ive been doing a good deal of soul searching and I think its time I leave this place once and for all. Ive talked about it a lot in the past, especially when I first showed up and things werent going over so well, but I always came back because the allure of diving in and talking about SMiLE among fellow fans (of which I know precisely ZERO in real life) was just too great to stay away. And for a while, things seemed to pick up and it was pretty good...aside from the factions and not being able to say anything without stepping on someone's toes (Im half joking). But honestly, lately, I just feel like its not worth the time, trouble and abuse. I realize a lot of it is probably self-inflicted; Im a pretty outspoken person and I like to debate which certainly rubs a lot of people the wrong way and I guess I can understand why. FWIW, I think even I kinda crossed a line when Rab left and I started railing about certain mod practices and issues. I kinda took up the cause trying to spearhead some kind of reform because, I guess, I sympathized with Rab and why he left and was hoping something could be done to turn it around. If I hurt any mods feelings, Im sorry. And sincerely, Im sorry if anyone took anything I said in a SMiLE debate personally too. That was never my intent to come off as mean or whatever...I just really like writing, debating, and this is something Im really interested in so I just get carried away. Id hope if we were having these conversations in person Id come off friendlier. With just text it really is hard to read others, or present yourself honestly.

Anyway, I kinda came and went as I had some free time here and there, mostly when there was a cool SMiLE thread getting attention. Gave me a chance to see new information/interpretations on SMiLE and offer my own theories, which I firmly believe in, and had never seen proposed by anyone else before so I felt the need to get them out there. I guess I overdid it. I have to admit I did get legitimately frustrated at times, seeing possibilities I consider just as valid if not more so shut down and called speculation while others were held as unquestionable based on, usually, very narrow interpretations of vague passages in one or perhaps two articles. But y'know, I get that having someone constantly beat you over the head with something again and again can be annoying too, even if, for me, its also annoying seeing these not be considered in the first place. Maybe I needed someone like zozo to turn it around on me the past few days to get it. I dont know. I think perhaps my efforts would be better served writing my own blog or perhaps reddit post or something about this some day when I get the time. You guys already have your minds made up just as I do, and hearing my ideas again and again is not going to win you over. Fresh eyes, and one big thorough post from me rather than a million reiterations, would be the best way to get my theories out there. I can see that now. Similarly, Im not getting anything new out or fun out of hearing the same things said again and again either. It would literally be the definition of insanity if I stayed.

You can say "thats great, you learned your lesson. why not stay but drop the SMiLE stuff?" Because honestly, even tho im not perfect and a lot of the negative attention I brought on myself, I just honestly dont feel welcome here anymore. I think, for all the time and passion I put into my posts, however misguided, I dont deserve to be called a troll, have my ideas purposefully misrepresented, etc. And just as with the early days when I was being harassed for not putting GV on a mix, nobody bothered to defend me. In the past I thought it was because I hadnt been around long enough to earn respect yet, but I can see now thats never gonna change. Maybe in this recent case, its because I gave the person a tongue lashing myself, or most of you thought I deserved it. IDK, but either way, I just dont feel like Im part of a community who's got my back when nobody stands up for you, even when youre a regular. Furthermore, I dont think its fair Im constantly hounded to read certain articles to even have a right to speak, and even when I do and write up some pretty thorough responses, partially to show that my ideas ARENT so far fetched because theyre not disproven and in some cases are supported by the articles, and also in a genuine attempt to possibly stir up a conversation, Im not taken seriously. In fact, Im accused of withholding evidence which disproves me--nevermind the fact I myself posted links to every article or video I ever "reviewed" both in those posts and in what I naively thought was meant as a reference thread. Now, its not even that I get mostly ignored--I get literally pounded with quotes for not interpreting them the way Im "supposed" to, made out to be some kind of imbecile or delinquent, and have some self important, self appointed keeper of the facts give me a pretty snarky and condescending smackdown over it. Again, maybe I brought it on myself. I dont know. I really dont know how things got so adversarial but Im sick of it. And I realize now its never going to end. I know Im not the one making it more and more elitist and disdainful around here thats for sure tho. When it gets to the point it has now where Im publicly berated for not citing everything I just linked to, lectured on my interpretations and treated as tho I never read articles I just wrote lengthy responses to, thats where I draw the line. As if that wasnt enough, my responses which I made in good faith are made out to be me misleading people and maliciously distorting facts, as if anyone else couldnt read them for themselves. Seriously, f*** that sh*t. You can frame it as respecting history or whatever, but at the end of the day this is supposed to be a laid back fun place I come to to discuss something Im interested in after classes. When it becomes like classwork in itself, complete with bullying to boot, thats where I drop out. But I sincerely believe no one else will be subjected to that behavior--in fact, I really do believe that both this "you need to read these articles"/"Oh you did? Well.....now you need to cite everything, and if I dont agree Im gonna frame it as tho youre manipulating the evidence" BS is an attempt to shut me up. Maybe thats me being an egocentric or paranoid but just watch--I highly doubt anyone else will be talked to with such scorn and disrespect so openly like that, and even if they are then this is not the kinda place worth spending time in. Ive never seen anyone else told their input is so worthless and so purposefully made to feel excluded like that, and it happened so quickly, from being incredibly friendly in one thread to needlessly vicious and PERSONAL in the next.

Anyway, I thought this place was fun...sometimes. I kind of imagined it as a bunch of music buffs sitting around a fireplace while the vinyl spins, talking about the music, what it makes us feel and in the case of SMiLE, how it best and most likely wouldve been finished. Now, any kind of casual or friendliness to such discussions feels gone. I thought a reference thread today was a great idea, a great project and an awesome resource. But not if it means Im gonna be continued to be treated like Ive been the past few days here, and by someone I had honestly thought was a friend in the past, only to have them basically make it a personal mission to tear me down since. Again, maybe I brought some of that on myself. I dont know. I acknowledge I probably made some other people feel similarly and if I did, Im genuinely sorry for it--it honestly was never my intention. But thats just it, this place is toxic. This isnt about assigning blame. I do think that this negativity and adversarial nature cycles back and back into itself to where its just a very unpleasant experience for everyone. Its not fun coming here anymore, I dont feel like anyone really wants me around, and honestly I expect this post will have some of you pretty happy.

But this isnt all a big pity party either. I have other stuff I have to do with my life. Its gonna be a busy semester, and frankly I couldve worked on a bunch of projects tonight but I didnt because the excitement of a group-created reference thread for SMiLE sources/quotes, finding the Teen Set Mag article and Bruce interview tonight got me pretty excited about SMiLE and the Boys and I let myself waste so much time here its actually embarassing. And really...for what? Just to be told "f*** you, your posts are a waste of time, you have no respect for the facts" not supported or defended by ANYONE against such treatment, and if so many of you either dislike me or dont care, why should I? Ive got enough going on in my personal life, getting sh*t on by people who think Im a freak I dont need more of that here. And I have to write enough extensively referenced essays for school I dont need to have to do so during my hobby now to even have the privilege of talking about SMiLE. I cannot say it enough, that is some SERIOUS bullshit right there, and where I personally draw the line. I think even if I did put up with it, there'd be some other crazy requirement for me next. So Ill just do myself and everyone else a favor and step out.

Peace, guys. It was nice talking to some of you. Im happy I was able to make real life friends with one, possibly two. Theres some of you, like Sonic and perhaps Cam, who probably dislike me or think I hate them. I dont. I disagree strongly about SMiLE and Mike respectively, but that was all. Theres one of you I think is pretty two-faced, mean-spirited and even more pompous than me if thats possible, and I could leak the Private Messages to prove it, but its not worth the time and you know who you are. This'll be the last overly long post you'll ever have to read from me. 

[filledeplage]

Mujan - I almost never read this board without coffee.  And would never post without coffee.   

Your semester is far more important than this board.  Had I stumbled upon this forum, my major studies as well as a big exam would have been in deep trouble.   I would have flunked out.  So I am glad I found it afterwards. 

Give school 100% or 1000%- as much as your passion for this music.  I love that many young people  have been inspired by the music of my teens. Don't let it go.

And, don't leave, but just, if you feel the need to get away from it, make it a temporary "semester break" or until semester break...and enjoy the adventure of your education as much as you have made this an adventure. 

Best of luck this semester.  Don't delete your account.  Just take a little break if you feel that is best.    

 

[Emily]

Mujan,
I haven't read the latest, so I don't know what's happened exactly, but...
-I think many people sometimes feel like others are ganging up on them. I know I have. People here can be really blunt and when 3 or 4 people in a row respond really bluntly it's harsh. I think that's a text thing, though, both the bluntness and it coming from several people at once. If you are in a room with several people, unless you've done something truly awful, usually people will soften their tones once one person has sounded a bit harsh. And if those people were all in one room and all were talking in that way, it would be really harsh. But you have to keep in mind they are not in the same room, so they may not have picked up on the fact that others have already been a little tough so maybe they should hold back. It's one of the big flaws of text-based conversations with multiple people. You ought not take it personally.
-I've never gotten into the question of "what might Smile have been?" I love the music but just listen to it as it comes. However, I've read some of those threads and feel like there's a lot of aggression all around. Somehow the topic seems to inspire such a commitment to theory that people seem to forget it's theory, as with religion. I think that I've seen exchanges in which you and your interlocutor were doing that to each other: "Here's how it went." "No, here's how it went." "But I said this. Why aren't you listening to me?" "Because it's this. Why aren't you listening to me?" Neither is remembering to insert things indicating recognition that all of this is theory; and that they have considered, openly, the other's ideas. It's like they have a fixed idea they think is right and they are proselytizing rather than discussing. (I know I've often been guilty of the same, but not with Smile music sequencing.)
-I really enjoy a lot of your posts, both on Smile and other topics. You have a lot of very interesting and insightful ideas about which you are very passionate. I've learned a lot about Smile by reading your posts and about other topics as well.
-Your outside work should always be a higher priority.
-If you need a break, I get it, but I hope you will return.

[Paul J B]

Not sure where all of this came from. I thought the thread about Good Vibrations and Smile's demise was pretty friendly overall. For what it's worth I enjoyed our back and forth about Star Wars the last few days. I do agree some of us, myself included spend too much time here, however......it's just a fan forum and a hobby in and of itself to join in the chat here so none of us should ever lose that perspective. Arguing about Smile or anything else here is not always a bad thing. Debates often lead to conclusions otherwise not considered. Not to be morbid, but this will be the place hundreds of people will come together when Brian is no longer with us. In any case take care.

[Douchepool]

Don't leave for good, bruh. At least take some time to collect yourself, though.

[Cam Mott]

I do not dislike you at all. I thought we were just getting along. Some of us on here have been arguing the same things here or on boards, usenet, mailing lists, that preceded this one for 20+ years now and I would miss them if they were to leave too.

Free Mikie!

[pixletwin]

This is how I feel about "goodbye" threads:

[The_Holy_Bee]

Theres one of you I think is pretty two-faced, mean-spirited and even more pompous than me if thats possible, and I could leak the Private Messages to prove it, but its not worth the time and you know who you are.

I think I know who that person is, and I'm sorry. I can get a bit frustrated with how things are argued on these threads, sure, and probably posted some things I shouldn't have. This was never my intention. Hope you come back some time.

[The_Holy_Bee]

Double post.

[The Shift]

Please stick around Mujan.

Your hunger for Smile is infectious and reminds me of a younger me (only you have the ability to mix…).

Things get heated here – I've had the odd break to cool off from time to time myself, but I always come back and Smile is one of the things that keeps me returning. Part of me wishes they could unrelease the box set to bring some of the mystery back, but you're one of those who prove there's still so much digging to be done, and enjoyment to be had.

[RangeRoverA1]

I agree with pixletwin. Mujan actually didn't "leave this place once and for all". Last visit says 20th of January. Figured as much.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Some folk here are just aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll heart.

[filledeplage]

I agree with pixletwin. Mujan actually didn't "leave this place once and for all". Last visit says 20th of January. Figured as much.

Mujan may have been responding to emails from fellow members.  

Even if a copy goes to your regular account-associated email, you have to log back in to respond to it. I suspect many, here, log in to email one another without posting.  

[Emily]

Mujan logged in to reply to a PM from me.
If you don't like a 'goodbye' thread, don't read it. No need to kick someone when they're down.

[RangeRoverA1]

Mujan may have been responding to emails from fellow members. 

Even if a copy goes to your regular account-associated email, you have to log back in to respond to it. I suspect many, here, log in to email one another without posting. 

Thanks for polite response. Much appreciated. I assume that Emily refers to both pixletwin & me because she quotes "goodbye" thread from his post. It wouldn't be right to say those things to single poster. I just agreed, not made orig. statement (btw, isn't it funny that everybody kept silence when he wrote that? there was whole week to read it. should of directly quoted pixletwin).

[Emily]

Mujan may have been responding to emails from fellow members. 

Even if a copy goes to your regular account-associated email, you have to log back in to respond to it. I suspect many, here, log in to email one another without posting. 

Thanks for polite response. Much appreciated. I assume that Emily refers to both pixletwin & me because she quotes "goodbye" thread from his post. It wouldn't be right to say those things to single poster. I just agreed, not made orig. statement (btw, isn't it funny that everybody kept silence when he wrote that? there was whole week to read it. should of directly quoted pixletwin).

I hadn't been in this thread since my last post. I popped in to see what AGD said since it's rare to see him post in the sandbox. I agree that Pixletwin's post was the real dig.

[RangeRoverA1]

Not to be pain in the neck - it's pixletwin, 1st letter lowercase. That's how he identifies on the board. Never understood why people uppercase the username when it's designed as lowercase. The poster him/herself chose to make it that way when signing up to the board.

[Emily]

Not to be pain in the neck - it's pixletwin, 1st letter lowercase. That's how he identifies on the board. Never understood why people uppercase the username when it's designed as lowercase. The poster him/herself chose to make it that way when signing up to the board.

Habit.

[JK]

Not to be pain in the neck - it's pixletwin, 1st letter lowercase. That's how he identifies on the board. Never understood why people uppercase the username when it's designed as lowercase. The poster him/herself chose to make it that way when signing up to the board.

Habit.

John K, John k, whatever... it's all the same to me. I rest my case.

As for Mujan's departure, filledeplage says it best.