Live at the Fillmore '71 – incoming!

[The Shift]

Sure this recording will have done the rounds and this looks like a grey area release to me.  Wasn't it on Wolfgang's Vault? Amazon UK, which doesn't have listed as available, cites the label as being Iconography, and the pre-release affordability suggests it's nothig to do with Capitol! Amazon UK also has it listed as a current Mp3 download; same site's CD listing has no date yet.

From the release notes:

LIVE BROADCAST FROM THE LAST NIGHT AT THE FILLMORE NYC 1971
This set, recorded live on the closing night of New York’s Fillmore East in 1971, captures the group at a time when their performanceabilities were at a peak and just as they were finishing up the recording of one of their finest late-era studio albums, Surf's Up.
Although Brian was no longer performing with the band, and Dennis Wilson (due to a hand injury) had been replaced on drums by Mike Kowalski, the core group of Carl Wilson, Mike Love and Al Jardine was still intact - and more than capable of delivering a great show.
Carl Wilson handles most of the lead vocals and his voice rings with the same crystalline clarity and heartfelt sincerity that he brought to‘God Only Knows’ on Pet Sounds.
The band opens with the complex and intriguing SMiLE era tune ‘Heroes And Villains’.Bruce Johnston takes over lead vocals on a rendition of Elton John's ‘Your Song’ - probably the most contemporary cover the band everperformed, having only been an American hit for Elton the previous December.


Tracklist:

1. Intro with Bill Graham 00:08
2. Heroes and Villains 03:54
3. Do It Again 02:52
4. Cottonfields 02:42
5. Help Me Rhonda 04:15
6. Wouldn't It Be Nice 03:00
7. Your Song 04:58
8. Student Demonstration Time 05:16
9. Good Vibrations 04:29
10. California Girls 03:30
11. I Get Around 02:31
12. It's About Time 04:00

Link to SpinCD's page:
https://www.spincds.com/garcia-live-volume-4-veterans-hall-sebastopol-ca-3-22-78-2cd-47892

[Andrew G. Doe]

Was indeed on Wolfgang's Vault.

[The_Beach]

Is this real or a boot?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Memorex.

[thetojo]

A better quality version of Your Song would be great to have if this eventuates.

[HeyJude]

It has been eons since I listened to this. My recollection is that the sound quality on the version floating around was pretty good, for a 1971 soundboard tape.

I also recall, and again my memory could be failing me, that the crowd seems *very* restless when Bruce performs "Your Song."

[Douchepool]

The mix is rather lousy on the recording; Al and Bruce are way in front, Carl is in and out, and Michael can barely be heard. Sad, because it's a great gig otherwise.

[The_Beach]

So this is an official release?

[SteveMC]

Bruce has a really high voice. It strikes me every now and then.

[The Shift]

So this is an official release?

I think it's one of those that somehow slips around all the legalities so while it remains unauthorised it's not technically illegal. Someone's likely recorded it live from the radio when it was originally broadcast (or might even have somehow obtained a digital copy of the Wolfgang's Vault soundboard recording).

While its good to hear these shows I'd much rather hear them properly mixed and mastered by Linett & Boyd Inc. I hope it's appearance doesn't sully the ground for a fully authorised release, maybe as part of a 12,000-disc early '70s live box.

[Jay]

Twelve thousand seems a little stingy. I'd say a 25,000 box set would be better. 

[Bill M]

So this is an official release?

I think it's one of those that somehow slips around all the legalities so while it remains unauthorised it's not technically illegal. Someone's likely recorded it live from the radio when it was originally broadcast (or might even have somehow obtained a digital copy of the Wolfgang's Vault soundboard recording).

While its good to hear these shows I'd much rather hear them properly mixed and mastered by Linett & Boyd Inc. I hope it's appearance doesn't sully the ground for a fully authorised release, maybe as part of a 12,000-disc early '70s live box.

I remember the Wolfgang Vault version having a bit less punch than the boots that have been circulating.  Same mix, but just not as punchy, as if the WV source was pre FM & the boots are post.  Or maybe it was just my imagination.  I have the WV files some where, but haven't listened to them in a while.  I'm curious how this "new" release may sound.

[HeyJude]

So this is an official release?

I think it's one of those that somehow slips around all the legalities so while it remains unauthorised it's not technically illegal. Someone's likely recorded it live from the radio when it was originally broadcast (or might even have somehow obtained a digital copy of the Wolfgang's Vault soundboard recording).

While its good to hear these shows I'd much rather hear them properly mixed and mastered by Linett & Boyd Inc. I hope it's appearance doesn't sully the ground for a fully authorised release, maybe as part of a 12,000-disc early '70s live box.

I remember the Wolfgang Vault version having a bit less punch than the boots that have been circulating.  Same mix, but just not as punchy, as if the WV source was pre FM & the boots are post.  Or maybe it was just my imagination.  I have the WV files some where, but haven't listened to them in a while.  I'm curious how this "new" release may sound.

I would guess there's a good chance that this new "release" is sourced either from circulating tapes/boots, or from the Wolfgang's Vault source.

A few months back I downloaded the three 1980 shows that Wolfgang's Vault has on the BBs, and they sound very much raw. Missing segments, feedback, etc. The Philly 1980 show sounds the best (no doubt due to Mr. Steve Desper being there to mix it for a multi-market radio broadcast), DC 1980 sounds good but a little thin, and the 7/3/80 Hampton show sounds okay for a radio/soundboard, but rather rough.

I do think at least *some* if not most of the WV stuff is pre-broadcast, because in some cases they have multiple shows from multiple nights including shows before or after broadcast dates that were never broadcast (e.g. the 7/3/80 Hampton show the night before the DC show; and I think for awhile they also had two back-to-back 1979 shows including one that wasn't broadcast).

[Bill M]

So this is an official release?

I think it's one of those that somehow slips around all the legalities so while it remains unauthorised it's not technically illegal. Someone's likely recorded it live from the radio when it was originally broadcast (or might even have somehow obtained a digital copy of the Wolfgang's Vault soundboard recording).

While its good to hear these shows I'd much rather hear them properly mixed and mastered by Linett & Boyd Inc. I hope it's appearance doesn't sully the ground for a fully authorised release, maybe as part of a 12,000-disc early '70s live box.

I remember the Wolfgang Vault version having a bit less punch than the boots that have been circulating.  Same mix, but just not as punchy, as if the WV source was pre FM & the boots are post.  Or maybe it was just my imagination.  I have the WV files some where, but haven't listened to them in a while.  I'm curious how this "new" release may sound.

I would guess there's a good chance that this new "release" is sourced either from circulating tapes/boots, or from the Wolfgang's Vault source.

A few months back I downloaded the three 1980 shows that Wolfgang's Vault has on the BBs, and they sound very much raw. Missing segments, feedback, etc. The Philly 1980 show sounds the best (no doubt due to Mr. Steve Desper being there to mix it for a multi-market radio broadcast), DC 1980 sounds good but a little thin, and the 7/3/80 Hampton show sounds okay for a radio/soundboard, but rather rough.

I do think at least *some* if not most of the WV stuff is pre-broadcast, because in some cases they have multiple shows from multiple nights including shows before or after broadcast dates that were never broadcast (e.g. the 7/3/80 Hampton show the night before the DC show; and I think for awhile they also had two back-to-back 1979 shows including one that wasn't broadcast).

I think you're probably right.  I bought the WV Byrds live from the Filmore & it's REALLY thin.  You can barely hear the bass / drums.  Very disappointing.  I also bought JD Souther live from the Bottom Line (1979?) & it's also pretty thin.  I actually recorded that show live at home onto cassette & my cassette sounds better.

[mikeddonn]

Sure this recording will have done the rounds and this looks like a grey area release to me.  Wasn't it on Wolfgang's Vault? Amazon UK, which doesn't have listed as available, cites the label as being Iconography, and the pre-release affordability suggests it's nothig to do with Capitol! Amazon UK also has it listed as a current Mp3 download; same site's CD listing has no date yet.

From the release notes:

LIVE BROADCAST FROM THE LAST NIGHT AT THE FILLMORE NYC 1971
This set, recorded live on the closing night of New York’s Fillmore East in 1971, captures the group at a time when their performanceabilities were at a peak and just as they were finishing up the recording of one of their finest late-era studio albums, Surf's Up.
Although Brian was no longer performing with the band, and Dennis Wilson (due to a hand injury) had been replaced on drums by Mike Kowalski, the core group of Carl Wilson, Mike Love and Al Jardine was still intact - and more than capable of delivering a great show.
Carl Wilson handles most of the lead vocals and his voice rings with the same crystalline clarity and heartfelt sincerity that he brought to‘God Only Knows’ on Pet Sounds.
The band opens with the complex and intriguing SMiLE era tune ‘Heroes And Villains’.Bruce Johnston takes over lead vocals on a rendition of Elton John's ‘Your Song’ - probably the most contemporary cover the band everperformed, having only been an American hit for Elton the previous December.


Tracklist:

1. Intro with Bill Graham 00:08
2. Heroes and Villains 03:54
3. Do It Again 02:52
4. Cottonfields 02:42
5. Help Me Rhonda 04:15
6. Wouldn't It Be Nice 03:00
7. Your Song 04:58
8. Student Demonstration Time 05:16
9. Good Vibrations 04:29
10. California Girls 03:30
11. I Get Around 02:31
12. It's About Time 04:00

Link to SpinCD's page:
https://www.spincds.com/garcia-live-volume-4-veterans-hall-sebastopol-ca-3-22-78-2cd-47892

Hi John, we spoke about this on a Carl Wilson thread but I thought I'd post back on this one!

Do you think this version is better than the earlier CD release on Moonlight Records from 1995?  As I said on that other thread I forgot I had it and bought the latest release from HMV and i'm wondering if it's worth opening or should I take it back and get a refund?

Cheers,

Mike.

[The Shift]

I'd forgotten I had that older boot. Have dug it out and will compare them tomorrow; sorry not to do it straight away but it's turned midnight, the new CD's outside in the van and I need some z's.

[mikeddonn]

I'd forgotten I had that older boot. Have dug it out and will compare them tomorrow; sorry not to do it straight away but it's turned midnight, the new CD's outside in the van and I need some z's.

Thank you John. 

[The Shift]

I think my pref is for the new release.

Seems there's either been a bit of mastering or this new version is from a better source – the base is bolder, the sound less veiled; the tracks have different timings as they start/finish at different points during the chatter between the songs.

The Bill Graham intro appears as a separate track on the new release but it's been trimmed down -  some indiscernible mumbling has been cut off the start, so that you only get the comprehensible intro to the band. A tad more professional in that respect; about three seconds more professional…

There also seems to be some speed/pitch correction here and there, noticeable most immediately on Do It Again, which is slightly faster & higher – a plus – but somehow it's lost something in the process.

Note that all the dead mics are still dead mics, the missing vocals are still missing etc.

So some spots it's better than the boot, in others, on balance, there's not a lot of difference.

If you're happy with the Moonlight boot, I'd stick with it.

At least, I would if I had anything along whose lines…  

ETA: just listening to HMR and the post-song chatter about Dennis cutting his hand -  sounds much clearer on the boot.

[The_Beach]

I'm excited for mine to come but mine I don't think has shipped yet! 

[mikeddonn]

I think my pref is for the new release.

Seems there's either been a bit of mastering or this new version is from a better source – the base is bolder, the sound less veiled; the tracks have different timings as they start/finish at different points during the chatter between the songs.

The Bill Graham intro appears as a separate track on the new release but it's been trimmed down -  some indiscernible mumbling has been cut off the start, so that you only get the comprehensible intro to the band. A tad more professional in that respect; about three seconds more professional…

There also seems to be some speed/pitch correction here and there, noticeable most immediately on Do It Again, which is slightly faster & higher – a plus – but somehow it's lost something in the process.

Note that all the dead mics are still dead mics, the missing vocals are still missing etc.

So some spots it's better than the boot, in others, on balance, there's not a lot of difference.

If you're happy with the Moonlight boot, I'd stick with it.

At least, I would if I had anything along whose lines…  

ETA: just listening to HMR and the post-song chatter about Dennis cutting his hand -  sounds much clearer on the boot.

Thank you for taking the time to do the comparison John.  I think you've convinced me to keep the latest release!  Just a shame that the missing mics are still missing as it was a really good show.  Interesting about the pitch correction on Do It Again.  I noticed when I heard the bootleg version in my dreams  that the tempo seemed to slow right down at the start.  I guess that's why they've probably tried a fix on it.

Cheers.

[The Shift]

I think my pref is for the new release.

Seems there's either been a bit of mastering or this new version is from a better source – the base is bolder, the sound less veiled; the tracks have different timings as they start/finish at different points during the chatter between the songs.

The Bill Graham intro appears as a separate track on the new release but it's been trimmed down -  some indiscernible mumbling has been cut off the start, so that you only get the comprehensible intro to the band. A tad more professional in that respect; about three seconds more professional…

There also seems to be some speed/pitch correction here and there, noticeable most immediately on Do It Again, which is slightly faster & higher – a plus – but somehow it's lost something in the process.

Note that all the dead mics are still dead mics, the missing vocals are still missing etc.

So some spots it's better than the boot, in others, on balance, there's not a lot of difference.

If you're happy with the Moonlight boot, I'd stick with it.

At least, I would if I had anything along whose lines…   

ETA: just listening to HMR and the post-song chatter about Dennis cutting his hand -  sounds much clearer on the boot.

Thank you for taking the time to do the comparison John.  I think you've convinced me to keep the latest release!  Just a shame that the missing mics are still missing as it was a really good show.  Interesting about the pitch correction on Do It Again.  I noticed when I heard the bootleg version in my dreams  that the tempo seemed to slow right down at the start.  I guess that's why they've probably tried a fix on it.

Cheers.

Never sure whether these releases are actually made from the soundboard recording or were simple taped during the FM broadcast.  If the latter, they could well be different recording made by different spotty kids with different cassette recorders!  I'm sure they'd be much better releases if they'd been made from the proper soundboard masters. Gotta hold out hope that one day they'll be located and released properly, me thinks.

[The_Beach]

Has anyone else ordered this CD off of Spincd and not receive the item yet? I pre ordered in January 11 and it was going to ship out in early February! So far I have very bad communication trying to talk to the guy. I have never ordered off of this website before.

[The Shift]

I stopped ordering stuff there. They advertise it early, mark it as "ships immediately" (or similar…) on release date but frequently fail to ship. I suspect they only order stock if they've a large number of pre-orders, or maybe they under-price, realise their mistake and blob on the orders.

I have however always had every prepayment refunded (eventually) when I've complained about Jon-delivery.

These days I just monitor their site to look out for release news as they often list prereleases before Amazon.

I'm sure you'll get you'd cash back if you rattle their cage, but keep rattling it until you do.