BWPS: How much input did Brian have?

[endofposts]

No one seems to have mentioned that these acetates are intellectual property, protected by copyright.  So, let's say you contact Durrie Parks, and she agrees to let you hear them, or even buy them from her.  Can you legally copy them and share them with other fans?  No.  So, the only useful way you can get Durrie to give up her acetates, assuming she has them and they're in at least listenable shape, is to persuade her to give them up to someone who will be able to get the legal clearances to release them officially.  Which brings you right back to Brian Wilson.  So, unless he changes his mind up about original Smile material (and there may be some resistance on his part because of the fact that fans bug him about it, he's stubborn that way, not just that he's got an emotional hang-up), it's not going to happen.  Or you could get the acetates from Durrie and circulate them illegally, which would make you a bootlegger and could get you in trouble.  And Durrie Parks in trouble as well.   

If anyone does have the chutzpah to get in contact with Durrie, let us know what she has to say, if anything.

[Old Rake]

One more time, since you seem to completely fail to grasp the concept.

We do not want these to bootleg them. We do not want these to sell. We do not even necessarily want them to HEAR them. Nobody thinks its going to solve any problems. THEY SIMPLY NEED TO BE PRESERVED FOR HISTORICAL PURPOSES.

Full stop.

[PMcC]

They ARE preserved, in Durrie's house.

[Leo K]

They ARE preserved, in Durrie's house.

True, but I doubt a house is the ideal archive, even under the best of circumstances (heat, water, and etc). 

Easy definition of an archive:

An archive refers to a collection of records, and also refers to the location in which these records are kept. Archives are made up of records which have been created during the course of an individual or organisation's life. In general an archive consists of records which have been selected for permanent or long-term preservation. Records, which may be in any media, are normally unpublished, unlike books and other publications. Archives may also be generated by large organizations such as corporations and governments. Archives are distinct from libraries insofar as archives hold records which are unique. Archives can be described as holding information "by-products" of activities, while libraries hold specifically authored information "products". The word 'archives' is the correct terminology, whereas 'archive' as a noun or a verb is related to computer science.


Notice that there is no STEALING or SELLING mentioned. 

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Yes indeed.

So, the only useful way you can get Durrie to give up her acetates, assuming she has them and they're in at least listenable shape, is to persuade her to give them up to someone who will be able to get the legal clearances to release them officially.

One more time, since you seem to completely fail to grasp the concept.

We do not want these to bootleg them. We do not want these to sell. We do not even necessarily want them to HEAR them. Nobody thinks its going to solve any problems. THEY SIMPLY NEED TO BE PRESERVED FOR HISTORICAL PURPOSES.

Full stop.

At the very least, hopefully they can go to someone who can make copies of the material so it isn't lost forever. Ideally, someone affiliated with Brian and/or the BB, or Capitol, or...you get the point.

[Bob Hanes]

Durrie HAS been approached by "official representatives" about archiving the acetates and then returning them to her and her daughter, since the acetates were the way a collaborator could take home and listen to "work in progress" back in the olden days.  Ownership was Van's, and by default Durrie's.
Cutting a working demo/acetate was common practice and part of the price of doing business in a recording studio.
Durrie did reply to said "officials" that any compensation (BRI did agree to offer a finders fee to her for the use of the acetates) should go to "Van's daughter".
I am chronically uninterested in the "hub bub" that accompanies Wilsonia & Beachboydom in general these days.  Old I guess.  But, I admit I would love to hear the acetates.  The sessions and the working tapes are where the truth and inspiration seem to come together to insinuate the possibilities of genius.  I find that stuff most rewarding.
Listening to Brian "catterwalling" on the Cocaine Sessions or hearing him directing the studio musicians, whether it is on material from 1964 or from SMiLE is awe inducing in the extreme.
IMHO, Ask Durrie again, I have no idea where she lives these days.  It's been so many years ago, and she moved once, I found her again, and then I heard she moved again, but I lost momentum for the "hunt".
GOOD LUCK all!

[endofposts]

Whatevah.    Of course I don't grasp the concept.  I'm a woman, like Durrie Parks is a woman.  Dumb chicks.  She probably let the grandkids destroy them long ago, since she can't grasp the concept and shouldn't be trusted with something so valuable.   

One more time, since you seem to completely fail to grasp the concept.

We do not want these to bootleg them. We do not want these to sell. We do not even necessarily want them to HEAR them. Nobody thinks its going to solve any problems. THEY SIMPLY NEED TO BE PRESERVED FOR HISTORICAL PURPOSES.

Full stop.

[theCOD]

Whatevah.    Of course I don't grasp the concept.  I'm a woman, like Durrie Parks is a woman.  Dumb chicks.  She probably let the grandkids destroy them long ago, since she can't grasp the concept and shouldn't be trusted with something so valuable.

You aren't that stupid, are you?

[matt-zeus]

Rather than all this, why don't you just ask Brian to re-record the whole thing so we can hear what it would sound like now.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Now folks...let's play nice, shall we?

Rather than all this, why don't you just ask Brian to re-record the whole thing so we can hear what it would sound like now.

Roflmao

[absinthe_boy]

Anyone who thinks that acetates and possibly tapes stuck in a box in someone's attic is "preserved" or "archived" clearly has no experience whatsoever in keeping such material for decades.

OK I have no direct experience of acetates but I maintain my own archive of magnetic tapes of various formats and I know the stuff has to be carefully looked after. Acetates are likely even more fragile in certain circumstances. Have you ever listened to a tape that was made 30+ years ago and stored in somebody's house?

Regardless of whether we ever get to hear this stuff...it is widely known that Durrie Parks has some acetates from the SMiLE era. They ought to be preserved. From what we know, it seems that Durrie might well agree but hasn't got the time to sift through her "junk" and locate them.

Obviously the music contained within them should be archived and preserved...both by preserving the original media and by copying to a modern lossless digital format. Whether any of it is ever released or bootlegged is IMMATERIAL.

In an ideal world there'd be a huge SMiLE box set with all extant material released officially......but assuming that isn't going to happen anytime soon...at least preserve what we know to exist.

I cannot understand the attitude of someone who would not wish to see Durrie's material somehow archived.

[Old Rake]

Whatevah.    Of course I don't grasp the concept.  I'm a woman, like Durrie Parks is a woman.  Dumb chicks.  She probably let the grandkids destroy them long ago, since she can't grasp the concept and shouldn't be trusted with something so valuable.

I can see you're not actually listening to what people are actually saying, and so I bow out of this lovely conversation gracefully.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Just for the sake of throwing a pebble to see what the ripples look like...

Alan Jardine has acetates too.

[Jonas]

Maybe I missed this in the last 27 pages, but why would Durrie Parks have the acetates? And how bout some more background info on her? I did a search but not much comes up. Then again, Desper has pointed out that I suck at googling...

[Bill Barnyard]

So does Bruce Johnston...but he's not willing to hand em over.
 

[matt-zeus]

What if Mike Love has some acetates, do you think he's willing to share?!

[Jonas]

He's going to sue you for saying that.

[Bill Barnyard]

I think Durrie Parks was living in Scottsdale, Arizona circa 2003.

 

[Aegir]

Maybe I missed this in the last 27 pages, but why would Durrie Parks have the acetates? And how bout some more background info on her? I did a search but not much comes up. Then again, Desper has pointed out that I suck at googling...

um.. she's Van Dyke's ex-wife. Van Dyke brought home acetates. Then, presumably, when they divorced, she kept them.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Maybe I missed this in the last 27 pages, but why would Durrie Parks have the acetates? And how bout some more background info on her? I did a search but not much comes up. Then again, Desper has pointed out that I suck at googling...

um.. she's Van Dyke's ex-wife. Van Dyke brought home acetates. Then, presumably, when they divorced, she kept them.

First time I met Van Dyke (his place, March 1985, LA) his opening words were along the lines of "I expect you want to ask me all about Smile and listen to any tapes or discs I may have... well, I suggest you ask my first wife about that, she has all of that stuff". Thus, we spent an enchanting, and entirely Smile & BB-free evening. Van Dyke is a true gentleman.

[MichaelPapelian]

It was Andrew who told me that Durrie had Smile tapes and acetates.  At the urging of Doug Sulpy I took a flyer and sent her an E-Mail.   Not that it did me any good.

Still can't understand the big deal about saving and restoring some old tapes and acetates? 

[matt-zeus]

One of you will have to marry into her family and then have a poke around whilst you're visiting.

[endofposts]

Thank you for insulting me personally in this thread not less than three times, including this one, and thank you for leaving.  Insulting people is not presenting an argument.

I can see you're not actually listening to what people are actually saying, and so I bow out of this lovely conversation gracefully.

There is a lack of respect towards Durrie Parks in some of this thread, because like it or not, it's her property and there's nothing anyone can do about it.  I'm probably wrong to chalk it up to sexism, but I just wonder if she were a guy if people would feel differently, or at least people would feel less inclined to try to "persuade" her repeatedly, when she's already given a no or a non-reponse.   Durrie worked in the record industry, so she knows what she has and likely knows how to take care of things such as acetates.

Acetates are not magnetic tape, and don't deteriorate in the same way.  They can last for decades (check out E-Bay for the large number of playable acetates for sale).  They won't warp like a vinyl record, since they have a metal base.  The worse thing you can do with them is play them, since the grooves wear out very quickly.  They also get scratched more easily with handling.  The best thing to do with them is not touch them.  If Durrie is not touching them, then they're very likely to be okay.  It's strictly up to her if she's going to allow anyone to digitize them, which should be done by a professional archivist who would know the best way to handle and play the acetate during the process.  If anyone is interested in maintaining the acetates for the sake of posterity, you should be grateful that she hasn't allowed fans to buy them, look at them, or listen to them. 

[theCOD]

I'm probably wrong to chalk it up to sexism...

Of course you are... but don't let that stop you!  Durrie Parks needs you to save her from the crazy stalker SMiLE fans!  Come up with ANYTHING!  Her life is in your hands!

[jazzfascist]

One of you will have to marry into her family and then have a poke around whilst you're visiting.

Yeah, or maybe elect her as "Woman Of The Year" of the Smiley Smile site. Find out where she lives, buy her some flowers and try not to look like a scruffy, desperate Smile geek and then take it from there. That would take some work, I know.

Søren