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Author Topic: BWPS: How much input did Brian have?  (Read 98012 times)
Ron
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« Reply #450 on: July 30, 2006, 02:57:47 PM »

The live performance became the recording.


........that's a great point. The live performance became the recording, not the other way around, as we are usually used to. It was the path of least resistance, and when you're dealing with BW, that's a good thing. It could mean the difference between a finished product, or more unreleased sessions in the cabinet...

That's an interesting psychological phenomena too, there... part of the BB's resistance and the tension within the group back in the day was that Brian was making music that was increasingly complicated to perform live, or couldn't supposedly be replicated live.  Now the word is out on whether or not Brian deep-sixed SMiLE because the boys didn't like it, or because Brian didn't like it, but either way,

t's kind of interesting that to get Brian's mind capable of finishing the album in 04, he first made sure to create an album that was capable of being performed live! Only then did he finish the SMiLE album.  Heh. 
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AMDG
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« Reply #451 on: July 30, 2006, 03:09:34 PM »

Of course Brian toured 'Smile' with a 17 piece band.  In 1966 and 1967 the Beach Boys were still touring as a 5 piece (it was a year before supporting mucisians were added).   
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Cam Mott
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« Reply #452 on: July 30, 2006, 04:10:19 PM »

Of course Brian toured 'Smile' with a 17 piece band.  In 1966 and 1967 the Beach Boys were still touring as a 5 piece (it was a year before supporting mucisians were added).   

And the 66/67 BBs [nor any other band as far as I know] never toured an entire album anyway, only the single and maybe one other album track.
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« Reply #453 on: July 30, 2006, 06:55:53 PM »

kind of interesting that to get Brian's mind capable of finishing the album in 04, he first made sure to create an album that was capable of being performed live! Only then did he finish the SMiLE album.  Heh.   "


...I'll go you one better than that. When they performed Smile live in 04, there was no talk of an album from the live performance. Only after Brian felt comfortable with the material, did they probably propose laying down the live performance in a studio setting. Musicians there, arrangement and song order already worked out. Studio available. What a no-brainer. But Brian was the boss, and none of this would have happened if he had not given his wink and nod. Don't labor under the misconception that he was not listening to every note in every arrangement on every song on that cd, and giving his final approval. As they say, it's his name on the sign: "Brian Wilson......presents Smile"
 
 
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Dan Lega
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« Reply #454 on: July 31, 2006, 07:38:13 AM »




I believe that over 95% of Brian's contribution (I'll leave 5% for "That sounds great" and "Could I hear that part again") - whether it be for the live presentation or the recording of the CD - was simply an exercise in karaoke.

Brian did ALL of his work on SMiLE in 1966-67; he never re-visited it again for any length of time. 2004's BWPS was the work of Darian Sahanaja, Jeff Foskett, and some Van Dyke Parks.

The way Brian's promotional team made it appear that Brian "finished" SMiLE was the best "Brian Is Back" campaign yet. And, in my view, it rendered the project a fraud.





     Look, when you say BWPS is "the *work* of Darian Sahanaja, Jeff Foskett, and some Van Dyke Parks" and that Brian's involvement was only 5% or less, and the project was a big fraud, then EVERYONE is going to think you mean that Jeff Foskett helped in the creation, e.g. sequencing and writing of new music and lyrics, for BWPS.   If you didn't mean that, then good.  But I don't see how you can write it like that and not expect it to be taken the wrong way. 

            Love and merci,   Dan Lega
« Last Edit: August 01, 2006, 07:49:07 AM by Dan Lega » Logged
TV Forces
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« Reply #455 on: August 01, 2006, 06:54:50 AM »

Darian said Brian and Van Dyke worked hard on BWPS together..  arranging and rearranging over and over.. yet the album says "Produced and arranged by Brian Wilson."

Who knows.
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« Reply #456 on: August 01, 2006, 02:50:07 PM »

Of course Brian toured 'Smile' with a 17 piece band.  In 1966 and 1967 the Beach Boys were still touring as a 5 piece (it was a year before supporting mucisians were added).   

Considering how awful their performances of Good Vibrations were at the time, I'd hate to see the 5-piece try SMiLE.
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« Reply #457 on: August 01, 2006, 05:03:46 PM »

Of course Brian toured 'Smile' with a 17 piece band.  In 1966 and 1967 the Beach Boys were still touring as a 5 piece (it was a year before supporting mucisians were added).   

Considering how awful their performances of Good Vibrations were at the time, I'd hate to see the 5-piece try SMiLE.

Even if they had released SMiLE the touring band would have carried on with the crappy 45 minute hit shows they were doing till 1970. They wouldn't have attempted it the same way they barely reconised Pet Sounds - or any of their LP tracks, until late 68 anyway if memory serves me.
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Bicyclerider
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« Reply #458 on: August 02, 2006, 07:47:38 AM »

The recent boot A Vocal Element with shows from Nov-Dec 1967 show the live band doing album tracks from Wild Honey as well as Pet Sounds material, and doing it pretty well.  Interestingly, no tracks from their most recent release, Smiley Smile, other than Good Vibrations.  No Heroes!
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Dan Lega
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« Reply #459 on: August 02, 2006, 12:55:38 PM »

The recent boot A Vocal Element with shows from Nov-Dec 1967 show the live band doing album tracks from Wild Honey as well as Pet Sounds material, and doing it pretty well.  Interestingly, no tracks from their most recent release, Smiley Smile, other than Good Vibrations.  No Heroes!


   It's no big deal, but Wild Honey came after Smiley Smile, so Wild Honey would have been their latest release.


          Love and merci,   Dan Lega
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« Reply #460 on: August 02, 2006, 03:46:47 PM »

Also, too, Wild Honey was a LOT more basic than SMiLE. The Pet Sounds songs were stripped down a bit. If the SMiLE songs were performed then, they would've been stripped down, too, and ironically would've likely sounded like Smiley Smile.
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« Reply #461 on: August 03, 2006, 12:12:32 AM »

I think the live band was great through the Beacago tour. The 60s shows were rough by today's standards but great for their era.
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Bicyclerider
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« Reply #462 on: August 03, 2006, 10:10:12 AM »

"It's no big deal, but Wild Honey came after Smiley Smile, so Wild Honey would have been their latest release"

Only Wild Honey hadn't been released yet - they introduce the songs as from their forthcoming album to be in the stores before Christmas.
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Dan Lega
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« Reply #463 on: August 03, 2006, 01:45:32 PM »

"It's no big deal, but Wild Honey came after Smiley Smile, so Wild Honey would have been their latest release"

Only Wild Honey hadn't been released yet - they introduce the songs as from their forthcoming album to be in the stores before Christmas.


     Oh, well that makes sense, then.  Thanks for clarifying!

              Love and merci,   Dan Lega
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Naive Teen Idol
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« Reply #464 on: June 05, 2009, 09:17:02 AM »

Just read through some (tho not all) of this thread.

Seems worth noting that the real gem of BWPS' sequencing is the second section.  "Wonderful" flowing into "A Song For Children" (ie, "Look") is just perfect (BTW, never noticed how much "Good Vibrations" are in there with the celeste part at the end) which then of course moves into "CITFOTM."  It's one of those things that when you've been listening to the boots forever you almost don't realize. 

Who did it, I dunno (my guess is that Darian was responsible for CITFOTM's turnaround at the end into "Surf's Up") -- but this part sounds like the way it was going to be presented back in '67.
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« Reply #465 on: June 05, 2009, 04:32:19 PM »

What a cool thread. I haven't read it in years. I think a lot of good give and take was here.
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« Reply #466 on: June 06, 2009, 08:26:26 AM »

I agree this was a really good thread. I too recently re-read it. It gets particularly interesting when Peter Reum weighs in with his belief that Brian always intended Smile to be a three movement suite. Definitely a controversial theory, but it'd be great if it were true.
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Naive Teen Idol
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« Reply #467 on: June 06, 2009, 09:12:02 AM »

Well, regardless of whether there was the intention to make it a three movement thing, there have always been three main themes to Smile:

1) Heroes and Villains -- Old West morality play, with good guys, bad guys and a big dose of how those battles drove the Westward Expansion
2) Loss of innocence -- from the loss of virginity (Wonderful) to the changing of the guard (Surf's Up)
3) Elements Suite

The thing that made Smile both interesting and hard to unravel absent a final product is that these themes pop up all over the place -- they're not isolated within their "section."  According to Andrew's book, there's a little H&V chant in the back of Wonderful, Look/SFC has Good Vibrations in it, etc.  As I said above, the transition from Wonderful's outro to Look/SFC's intro is so natural and obvious on BWPS it's kind of shocking to me I never noticed it before.

These three themes and how they interlock are what make Smile really resonate, IMO.  The upshot is just an incredibly profound yet whimsical meditation on America -- not only what had become (by '66-67 anyway), not only its failures (Bicycle Rider), but also its enduring potential.  Those themes have been explored since by others, but rarely as compellingly or lucidly as Brian and VDP did here.  Fans like us always knew that the music of Smile lived up to the legend -- but the real surprise about BWPS was that whatever Brian's final input was, and definitive or not, the final product actually managed to present that vision succinctly and coherently.

And I don't think any of us ever thought we'd live to see the day where we could say that.
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Wilsonista
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« Reply #468 on: June 06, 2009, 11:42:03 AM »

I agree this was a really good thread. I too recently re-read it. It gets particularly interesting when Peter Reum weighs in with his belief that Brian always intended Smile to be a three movement suite. Definitely a controversial theory, but it'd be great if it were true.

Practically everything Peter writes is worth its weight in gold. I just wish more people on this board actually listened to him and weren't so dismissive.
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Dancing Bear
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« Reply #469 on: June 06, 2009, 01:03:11 PM »

I agree this was a really good thread. I too recently re-read it. It gets particularly interesting when Peter Reum weighs in with his belief that Brian always intended Smile to be a three movement suite. Definitely a controversial theory, but it'd be great if it were true.

Practically everything Peter writes is worth its weight in gold. I just wish more people on this board actually listened to him and weren't so dismissive.

Dream on.  Grin
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Wilsonista
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« Reply #470 on: June 06, 2009, 01:24:15 PM »

I agree this was a really good thread. I too recently re-read it. It gets particularly interesting when Peter Reum weighs in with his belief that Brian always intended Smile to be a three movement suite. Definitely a controversial theory, but it'd be great if it were true.

Practically everything Peter writes is worth its weight in gold. I just wish more people on this board actually listened to him and weren't so dismissive.

Dream on.  Grin

I hear Mike Love needs a historian. Why don't you and Cam try out for that gig?
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Dancing Bear
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« Reply #471 on: June 06, 2009, 02:41:41 PM »

I agree this was a really good thread. I too recently re-read it. It gets particularly interesting when Peter Reum weighs in with his belief that Brian always intended Smile to be a three movement suite. Definitely a controversial theory, but it'd be great if it were true.

Practically everything Peter writes is worth its weight in gold. I just wish more people on this board actually listened to him and weren't so dismissive.

Dream on.  Grin

I hear Mike Love needs a historian. Why don't you and Cam try out for that gig?

Mike's so incredible he needs no apologist. By the way, that reminds me of a conversation I had with him when he was dating that juice jug in 1970. He told me he never heard about three movements albums or anything like that.  Smiley
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Wilsonista
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« Reply #472 on: June 06, 2009, 03:25:34 PM »

Then why the hell did I see you and Cam eating breakfast at the MIU cafeteria last year?

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Jason
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« Reply #473 on: June 06, 2009, 10:47:16 PM »

Someone done got himself butthurt.
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NOLA SMiLE
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« Reply #474 on: October 08, 2012, 09:02:18 PM »

Whatever happened to the Durrie Parks acetates?
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