BWPS: How much input did Brian have?

[Smilin Ed H]

If I was Brian I'd want my name taken off some of those later songs!

[Glenn Greenberg]

A question regarding Brian's involvement with the Beach Boys circa 1969-71:

If the Boys were desperate for Brian to be involved with them during that time--or at least to create the APPEARANCE that he was involved with them--is it possible that they added his name to the credits of songs that he didn't really write or co-write on albums like SUNFLOWER, SURF'S UP, SO TOUGH, and HOLLAND?

Well, Elvis got his name added to stuff he didn't write, and so did Spector.

I'm now feeling very disillusioned.

I think that what they did, frequently, was finish fragments of Brian's. I think "Marcella" is an example of that. I'm not sure at all that they didn't just take part of "I Just Got My Pay," put new lyrics to it, and re-produce it as a "new" song.

Pure speculation on my part, but I don't think Brian would include "Marcella" in his concert setlists if he didn't have at least SOME involvement in producing the final version (as it appeared on SO TOUGH).

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

GIOMH was in the can by late fall 2003 and being shopped around the record companies by itself... and no-one would take it. That's when it became part of the BWPS, especially post-2/20/04.

As for Brian wanting to release it, well, my ears tell me he wasn't all that interested in the project at all. He didn't pick the tracks and he sure as hell didn't waste too much time doing the vocals properly (when the material engages Brian's interest, he responds... when it doesn't, it's very obvious). In my opinion, the sole redeeming feature of the whole farrago was that it made someone realise that 1) Brian had to sing way better for BWPS; and 2) doing all the bvs by himself wasn't such a good idea in 2003/4.

What was the story about the actual *recording* of that album? I mean, we now know what happened *after* it was done...are there any outtakes?

I don't know if it's a big problem, he was probably sometimes cocredited for songs like "At My Window" or "Deirdre" even if he contributed very little. The big songs like "'Til' I Die" must have been Brian, there's just a marked difference in quality.

Well, Bruce has said Brian had like 5% of contribution to Deirdre. As for At My Window, he probably just wrote the part he sang in French, and the harmony parts (He came...to my...windo-whoa)

[Rocker]

I mean, heck, "Old Master Painter" exists on the modern album without the fade they cut for it (and I do miss it), so they definitely were not following the mold from '66.

Maybe I don't understand, but "Old master painter" didn't have a fade then and does not now. Or are you talking about another fragment which I don't know....?

[LostArt]

Maybe I don't understand, but "Old master painter" didn't have a fade then and does not now. Or are you talking about another fragment which I don't know....?

It did have a fade originally, but Brian took it out to use it as the fade to the 'cantina' version of H&V.  The fade is commonly referred to as 'False Barnyard', because there was a time when folks thought that it was a part of 'Barnyard'.  Definitely one of the pieces that I miss the most in BWPS.

[Jeff Mason]

It's easier to hear the connection of the two in outtakes, as the initial feel of FB was much closer in the cellos to the close of OMP.  But then Brian corrected the tempo to what he wanted and you have the feel of the version appended to H&V on the twofer.  BTW -- wasn't there a question as to whether FB on H&V was a vintage Brian move vs a later splice, or did Brian edit that all together?  Sometimes it runs together for me.

[MBE]

A question regarding Brian's involvement with the Beach Boys circa 1969-71:

If the Boys were desperate for Brian to be involved with them during that time--or at least to create the APPEARANCE that he was involved with them--is it possible that they added his name to the credits of songs that he didn't really write or co-write on albums like SUNFLOWER, SURF'S UP, SO TOUGH, and HOLLAND?

They would have added him to every song if this was the case. Deirdre for instance may not have had Brian do 50 percent but what he did sing and write is great (I assume it's the several lines he does lead on). Brian was involved 69-71, maybe not in charge but involved.

[HeyJude]

It's just one more tidbit to add to the collection of questionable Brian interview segments, but I recall a raw interview tape done with Brian in 1985 (for Westwood One I believe) to promote the BB '85 album. At one point, the interviewer brings up the "Surf's Up" album, and specifically I believe "Take A Load Off Your Feet", which is a song that has sometimes carried Brian's name in the credits and certainly features Brian singing the first line, and Brian reacts in this interview in total confusion as if he's never even heard of the song and seems to have little or no recall about the album as a whole. Whether this just means his memory failed him, or if he was not terribly involved in the song or the album, or some other reason, I don't know. I imagine that if the interviewer would have played him the song, Brian probably would have recognized it.

[Andrew G. Doe]

A question regarding Brian's involvement with the Beach Boys circa 1969-71:

If the Boys were desperate for Brian to be involved with them during that time--or at least to create the APPEARANCE that he was involved with them--is it possible that they added his name to the credits of songs that he didn't really write or co-write on albums like SUNFLOWER, SURF'S UP, SO TOUGH, and HOLLAND?

They would have added him to every song if this was the case. Deirdre for instance may not have had Brian do 50 percent but what he did sing and write is great (I assume it's the several lines he does lead on). Brian was involved 69-71, maybe not in charge but involved.

According to Bruce, Brian contributed maybe 5% to the song, but Bruce gave him 50% anyway. As i recall his lyrical contribution was along the lines of "My friend is Bob/He has a job".

Been some time since I listened to it - which lines does Brian sing ?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

These lines:
These nights, pretty nights, that were meant to be
With you and me
It's the way that we
Always had our love, Deirdre

Or something like that, anyway.

At one point, the interviewer brings up the "Surf's Up" album, and specifically I believe "Take A Load Off Your Feet", which is a song that has sometimes carried Brian's name in the credits and certainly features Brian singing the first line, and Brian reacts in this interview in total confusion as if he's never even heard of the song and seems to have little or no recall about the album as a whole. Whether this just means his memory failed him, or if he was not terribly involved in the song or the album, or some other reason, I don't know. I imagine that if the interviewer would have played him the song, Brian probably would have recognized it.

That was mainly a Jardine joint.

[HeyJude]

These lines:
These nights, pretty nights, that were meant to be
With you and me
It's the way that we
Always had our love, Deirdre

Or something like that, anyway.

At one point, the interviewer brings up the "Surf's Up" album, and specifically I believe "Take A Load Off Your Feet", which is a song that has sometimes carried Brian's name in the credits and certainly features Brian singing the first line, and Brian reacts in this interview in total confusion as if he's never even heard of the song and seems to have little or no recall about the album as a whole. Whether this just means his memory failed him, or if he was not terribly involved in the song or the album, or some other reason, I don't know. I imagine that if the interviewer would have played him the song, Brian probably would have recognized it.

That was mainly a Jardine joint.

Oh, I know the song was mainly Al's. I think sometimes (if not most of the time), the songwriting credits don't even list Brian's name. (This is one of those weird songs that has conflicting credits over various releases). It just seems odd that Brian did not even remember the song at all (I don't recall exactly how the interview exchange went, but it wasn't as if Brian indicated he just didn't recall too much about the song; as I recall he indicates he has zero recollection/familiarity with the song at all, as if the interviewer could have made up a song title and Brian would have given the same response), considering he did sing on it, and *may* have been involved in some element of the song's creation if his name has sometimes appeared on the writing credits at some point.

That '85 interview was pretty interesting, though. Brian talks a lot about the recording of the BB '85 album and has some strange stories.

[Old Rake]

BTW -- wasn't there a question as to whether FB on H&V was a vintage Brian move vs a later splice, or did Brian edit that all together?

That was, with 100% certainty, Brian. An edit done Feb. 10th 1967, and found on a safety reel. From there, straight to the Smiley Smile twofer and the GV box. No tampering (well, besides some no-noise, alas) necessary.

[Glenn Greenberg]

A question regarding Brian's involvement with the Beach Boys circa 1969-71:

If the Boys were desperate for Brian to be involved with them during that time--or at least to create the APPEARANCE that he was involved with them--is it possible that they added his name to the credits of songs that he didn't really write or co-write on albums like SUNFLOWER, SURF'S UP, SO TOUGH, and HOLLAND?

They would have added him to every song if this was the case. Deirdre for instance may not have had Brian do 50 percent but what he did sing and write is great (I assume it's the several lines he does lead on). Brian was involved 69-71, maybe not in charge but involved.

Excellent point.

[Glenn Greenberg]

That '85 interview was pretty interesting, though. Brian talks a lot about the recording of the BB '85 album and has some strange stories.

Feel free to elaborate! 

[Glenn Greenberg]

Re: Deirdre

These are the lyrics Brian sings throughout the song.  Is it possible he wrote all these sections, or just one?


Good things turn bad but it's over now
So don't look sad 'cause you're older now
Lots of people miss Deirdre


These nights, pretty nights, that were meant to be
With you and me
It's the way that we
Always had our love, Deirdre


You may not live with me every day
All that I care is that we find a way
To stay together with Deirdre

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Heh. Forgot to type the other lines...

[Rocker]

Are you sure it's Brian? Bruce and Bri sounded awfully alot singing with high voice

[Andrew G. Doe]

Re: Deirdre

These are the lyrics Brian sings throughout the song.  Is it possible he wrote all these sections, or just one?


Good things turn bad but it's over now
So don't look sad 'cause you're older now
Lots of people miss Deirdre


These nights, pretty nights, that were meant to be
With you and me
It's the way that we
Always had our love, Deirdre


You may not live with me every day
All that I care is that we find a way
To stay together with Deirdre

Um, the last lines of those are Mike, not Brian. And to my ears, the rest is a group vocal, Brian taking the top.

[buddhahat]

I mean, heck, "Old Master Painter" exists on the modern album without the fade they cut for it (and I do miss it), so they definitely were not following the mold from '66.

I thought False Barnyard was originally cut with the OMP lyrics (you can just about hear them on certain outtakes) but Brian wiped them to use FB as the fade to Heroes? He then re-recorded OMP with the Dennis vocal in the form that we hear it in BWPS?  Surely then FB was never intended as a fade to OMP but was just an earlier version of it, or am I mistaken about this?

I do miss False Barnyard on BWPS too. The Western Theme that is on BWPS though, I always think sounds like an elaboration on FB though, so perhaps Brian intended it as a fade to replace FB as the Heroes sessions progressed in 66/67?

[Old Rake]

You're close -- False Barnyard was originally cut with the OMP lyrics -- but  sung, presumably, by Dennis the same time he sang the verse vocals. Some have said its Mike, but who knows. Point is: they were tracked. And the instrumental session was done on the same day the rest of OMP was cut.

The fragment then moved to H&V in January '67, presumably after "tag to part 1" (recorded Jan. 3) was scotched. The "barnshine" lyrics were then wiped. He then RECUT False Barnyard in February, adding in a Carl "doot-doot" vocal line.

No other version of OMP was ever cut until BWPS.

[Charles LePage @ ComicList]

  In the meantime, watch what happens when you play it for people who don't know the backstory - like your children.    Do they bop along to it or tune out? 

My now 4 year old son listened to BWPS on Rhapsody about 5 times, from beginning to end.  He loved it.  He even referred to Mrs O'Leary as FIRE. 

[Charles LePage @ ComicList]

In July 2006 this is what I want to know about Smile.  In September 2000 Durrie Parks E-mailed me stating she had Smile acetates and tapes.

Could someone please tell me if the tapes and acetates are safe?  Further, has anyone (Hello David Leaf) listened to them?

The most recent speculation I have on the acetates can be read here:

http://smileysmile.net/documents/durrieparksacetates.pdf

[Charles LePage @ ComicList]

When were Dennis' and Carl's compositions recorded? Maybe those songs had something to do with the voting.

Dennis' "I Don't Know" was recorded Jan 12, 1967.
Carl's "Tones" was recorded March 1967.

[Rocker]

When were Dennis' and Carl's compositions recorded? Maybe those songs had something to do with the voting.

Dennis' "I Don't Know" was recorded Jan 12, 1967.
Carl's "Tones" was recorded March 1967.

Thanks for clearification ! So, it might have to do something with the voting. What do you think ?

[Charles LePage @ ComicList]

The family dynamics centered around the family business and Brian wanting to take the BBs into fm album rock, which he correctly realized was the next thing to happen in radio. The BBs were stuck in am singles mode. Brian went along out of family duty, feeling he was no longer trusted. After the session on 12/6/66, they met on 12/7 or 12/8, with the BBs rejecting Brian's movement concept for a more conservative, 12 track conventional lp concept. This was submitted to Capitol on 12/10/66, and Smile as a rock opera or cantata was dead.

Brian began working on a 12 track album, when he got told he had to do a single. The rest of the Era we call Smile was essentially a search for that single. Brian's mental state, already fragile, deteriorated rapidly after 12/10/66. Carl took that list to Capitol, but he was not a rebel. His suggestion was probably the 12 track album. But make no mistake about it, Brian stopped having complete control after that meeting in December 1966, and never was the same. He was deeply addicted to amphetamines by January 1967.

I have been told not to ask such questions, but I do anyway:  is this based upon sources you cannot specify for reasons that are none of our business?  Or sources, perhaps, like Carl or Dennis, who are no longer here to discuss such matters?