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Author Topic: Record Collector  (Read 21695 times)
Smilin Ed H
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« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2015, 05:03:11 AM »

I'll defend everything he did with the group up until '77 and even after that I like Kokomo, Sumahama, lots of stuff, even Still Cruisin' if I'm in the right mood. Getcha Back is great. But none of his contributions are even close to coming up with stuff like the backing tracks to California Girls or You Still Believe in Me.

Generally, I agree
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« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2015, 07:28:28 AM »

Have read the article. Lot of folk here going to have a screaming blue fit.  Grin
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« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2015, 09:07:13 AM »

Hrmmmm........



myKe luHv and genius in the same sentence? Huh A pristine example of an oxymoron. Transcendental Meditation
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« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2015, 10:21:55 AM »

One potential litmus test might end up being how quickly (if at all) Mike links to the article or issue on his Facebook page.
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« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2015, 10:57:09 AM »

Got my copy today. Interesting viewpoint and, as to be expected, open to debate. Actually found the inclusion of Private Life of Bill & Sue in the attached list of 'baffling moments of inexplicably poor judgement' more controversial....
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« Reply #30 on: December 31, 2015, 05:21:14 PM »

Congratulations on getting your article published....I hope  people take the time to read it. I think that Mike is someone who desires his long period of service recognized. No one can make the claim that Mike can...55 continuously served years in the group...he's a lifer who enlisted in The Beach Boys. I would say that Brian's famous quote "I'm not a genius, I'm a hard working guy" also would apply to Mike. His voice is the most  identifiable in a concert.   He is a person who understands the value of  easily understood lyrics. He should be recognized for all of these contributions. That said, the 1992 album is excrement. So much so that I will not have it in my collection.
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« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2015, 05:32:59 PM »

Got my copy today. Interesting viewpoint and, as to be expected, open to debate. Actually found the inclusion of Private Life of Bill & Sue in the attached list of 'baffling moments of inexplicably poor judgement' more controversial....

Hey, I'm a big fan of "Bill and Sue"...nothing wrong with that song!  Smiley
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« Reply #32 on: December 31, 2015, 07:53:34 PM »

Would AGD trade his famous black hat? Evil

 LOL That and the matching cape! Remind you of someone?  Transcendental Meditation
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« Reply #33 on: December 31, 2015, 10:38:21 PM »

Iain's described the piece to me on Twitter as being "in defence of Mike Love", and he's also said before that he thinks Summer In Paradise a better album than Love You, so I think very much the former rather than the latter.

No. No. Just... no.
Like the Old Man from Pawn Stars says, "Not only no, but hell no".  Grin
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« Reply #34 on: January 01, 2016, 01:54:32 AM »

Got my copy today. Interesting viewpoint and, as to be expected, open to debate. Actually found the inclusion of Private Life of Bill & Sue in the attached list of 'baffling moments of inexplicably poor judgement' more controversial....

Hey, I'm a big fan of "Bill and Sue"...nothing wrong with that song!  Smiley

Agreed, so am I, and I can think of far far worse choices they could have included. Their list of questionable moments includes Bill & Sue, HELP is on the way, My solution, Johnny Carson, Solar System, Matchpoint Of Our Love, Too Much Sugar... and then goes on to mention Anna Lee, Diamond Head, A Day In The Life... and Rio Grande amongst others! Not 100% certain of the angle the author, one Jamie Atkins, is coming from on this !
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« Reply #35 on: January 01, 2016, 02:22:56 AM »

Got my copy today. Interesting viewpoint and, as to be expected, open to debate. Actually found the inclusion of Private Life of Bill & Sue in the attached list of 'baffling moments of inexplicably poor judgement' more controversial....

Hey, I'm a big fan of "Bill and Sue"...nothing wrong with that song!  Smiley

Agreed, so am I, and I can think of far far worse choices they could have included. Their list of questionable moments includes Bill & Sue, HELP is on the way, My solution, Johnny Carson, Solar System, Matchpoint Of Our Love, Too Much Sugar... and then goes on to mention Anna Lee, Diamond Head, A Day In The Life... and Rio Grande amongst others! Not 100% certain of the angle the author, one Jamie Atkins, is coming from on this !

Heh. Half of those would go on a list of reasons the Beach Boys are great, for me at least. Though Matchpoint and Too Much Sugar are a little weaker.

And Bill and Sue is the best thing on That's Why God Made The Radio, except maybe for Shelter.
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« Reply #36 on: January 01, 2016, 06:35:00 AM »

Got my copy today. Interesting viewpoint and, as to be expected, open to debate. Actually found the inclusion of Private Life of Bill & Sue in the attached list of 'baffling moments of inexplicably poor judgement' more controversial....

Hey, I'm a big fan of "Bill and Sue"...nothing wrong with that song!  Smiley

Really! When I first heard that song I thought it's the worst song they ever did, along with "Summer Of Love". TPLOBAS is so bad it should be included on future re-releases of SIP! Cheesy They should've worked on Al's "Waves Of Love" instead.
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« Reply #37 on: January 01, 2016, 06:42:49 AM »

Iain's described the piece to me on Twitter as being "in defence of Mike Love", and he's also said before that he thinks Summer In Paradise a better album than Love You, so I think very much the former rather than the latter.

No. No. Just... no.

Each to his own…

Right. Actually those two are the 2 BBs albums I dislike the most. I only can bear listening to the first four tracks of SIP after having listened to the whole of Love You first - in comparison, SIP actually sounds well produced to me. Grin If I listen to anything else before, I must turn SIP off or at least skip to track 5.
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« Reply #38 on: January 01, 2016, 07:29:04 AM »

Got my copy today. Interesting viewpoint and, as to be expected, open to debate. Actually found the inclusion of Private Life of Bill & Sue in the attached list of 'baffling moments of inexplicably poor judgement' more controversial....

Hey, I'm a big fan of "Bill and Sue"...nothing wrong with that song!  Smiley

Really! When I first heard that song I thought it's the worst song they ever did, along with "Summer Of Love". TPLOBAS is so bad it should be included on future re-releases of SIP! Cheesy They should've worked on Al's "Waves Of Love" instead.

To me, "Waves Of Love" is actually pretty weak...and just doesn't fit on TWGMTR. "Bill and Sue" and "Shelter" are cut from the same silk, so to speak - they are both typical BW songs from what I would call the "TLOS and after" era, plus both have great vocal arrangements and BBs background vocals, decent BW lead vocals (not embarrassing at all), and both have interesting lyrics - to me, "Bill and Sue" lyric-wise is almost in the "Busy Doin' Nothin'" vein, except they're writing about a topical cultural subject matter instead of BW's daily routine.
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« Reply #39 on: January 01, 2016, 08:47:56 AM »

To me, "Waves Of Love" is actually pretty weak...and just doesn't fit on TWGMTR. "Bill and Sue" and "Shelter" are cut from the same silk, so to speak - they are both typical BW songs from what I would call the "TLOS and after" era, plus both have great vocal arrangements and BBs background vocals, decent BW lead vocals (not embarrassing at all), and both have interesting lyrics - to me, "Bill and Sue" lyric-wise is almost in the "Busy Doin' Nothin'" vein, except they're writing about a topical cultural subject matter instead of BW's daily routine.

Yep. Waves of Love is one of the weakest things on A Postcard From California -- and of course it had already been released when That's Why God Made The Radio came out. Shelter and Bil and Sue are both a little derivative, but Shelter is just *full* of hooks, while Bill & Sue is ridiculous fun.

But then, my top three Beach Boys albums would be Smiley Smile, Love You and Carl & The Passions...
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« Reply #40 on: January 01, 2016, 03:48:03 PM »

Go figure. I don't think "Waves of Love" is pure genius or anything, and the weird-sounding Carl vocal doesn't help, but I'd pick it every time over Bill and Sue. Bill and Sue may be quirkier and more closely tied to Brian than Waves is to Al. But Bill and Sue just isn't musically interesting.

I don't think Waves needed to be on TWGMTR though, if for no other reason than because Al had already released it. If he was going to fly in a previously released track, I'd just go with "Don't Fight the Sea." Good song, and Carl sounds great on that one.
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« Reply #41 on: January 01, 2016, 04:31:24 PM »

Could be they're both great songs; I'll take 'em both.

Anyway, can anyone who has actually read the article elaborate/tease a little more?  I'm not expecting this issue to hit the shores until mid next week.
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« Reply #42 on: January 02, 2016, 02:15:23 AM »

It's an interesting take, one that will polarize opinion. Personally I think it's possible author's swung the pendulum a little too far.
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Smilin Ed H
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« Reply #43 on: January 03, 2016, 01:44:31 AM »

It's an interesting take, one that will polarize opinion. Personally I think it's possible author's swung the pendulum a little too far.

Credit where credit due, but I think you're right on this one.
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« Reply #44 on: January 03, 2016, 04:53:22 PM »

Just read the article today.  I don't hate Mike so I can agree with a lot of the things Ian wrote.  I also really like Kokomo a lot!  However, there were some reasons given on here and other places as to why people do dislike Mike and they weren't really addressed (probably not the point of the article).

The interview with Mike then probably does more harm than good as it goes over the usual stuff and kind of backs up why people don't like Mike.  But shouldn't be reasons to hate the guy.  Mike manages to avoid giving an answer to the question about writing on the early 70s albums (could have mentioned Big Sur) but goes on to talk about KTSA and "Going to the Beach"! Why does he seem to think this is such a great song?  That's a reason why this part of the feature was counter-productive IMHO.

Ian, what do you think?
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« Reply #45 on: January 04, 2016, 06:56:09 AM »

Just read the article today.  I don't hate Mike so I can agree with a lot of the things Ian wrote.  I also really like Kokomo a lot!  However, there were some reasons given on here and other places as to why people do dislike Mike and they weren't really addressed (probably not the point of the article).

The interview with Mike then probably does more harm than good as it goes over the usual stuff and kind of backs up why people don't like Mike.  But shouldn't be reasons to hate the guy.  Mike manages to avoid giving an answer to the question about writing on the early 70s albums (could have mentioned Big Sur) but goes on to talk about KTSA and "Going to the Beach"! Why does he seem to think this is such a great song?  That's a reason why this part of the feature was counter-productive IMHO.

Ian, what do you think?

Haven't read the article yet but very much would like to. I'm not targeting any specific post or poster, but one my problems is the idea that people who at times (or often, or even usually) find Mike distasteful, or lamentable, or whatever adjective, therefore actually "hate" Mike.

If I don't think Mike is a tortured genius, or if I don't feel he is widely and egregiously misunderstood (he certainly is sometimes unfairly criticized and misunderstood, as ALL the guys are at one point or another), that doesn't mean I "hate" him.

Similarly, if there is an article written predominantly or solely in defense of Mike and someone thinks the premise of the article (or the execution) is disagreeable, it doesn't mean they only feel that way because they "hate" Mike.
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« Reply #46 on: January 04, 2016, 07:41:27 AM »

I don't think Waves needed to be on TWGMTR though, if for no other reason than because Al had already released it. If he was going to fly in a previously released track, I'd just go with "Don't Fight the Sea." Good song, and Carl sounds great on that one.

When I made me own custom-built TWGMTR album I first tried to replace TPLOBAS with "Don't Fight the Sea", but I found that it didn't fit sonically with the rest of the album. "Waves Of Love" (saxophone version) fits very well IMHO. Even if it has been released before, the could have just replaced the sax with some Dave guitar and added some BBs vocals, creating a new version and there you are.

Did it "need" to be on the album? I always welcome a bit more Al... Smiley
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« Reply #47 on: January 04, 2016, 11:07:54 AM »

Haven't read the article yet but very much would like to. I'm not targeting any specific post or poster, but one my problems is the idea that people who at times (or often, or even usually) find Mike distasteful, or lamentable, or whatever adjective, therefore actually "hate" Mike.

If I don't think Mike is a tortured genius, or if I don't feel he is widely and egregiously misunderstood (he certainly is sometimes unfairly criticized and misunderstood, as ALL the guys are at one point or another), that doesn't mean I "hate" him.

Similarly, if there is an article written predominantly or solely in defense of Mike and someone thinks the premise of the article (or the execution) is disagreeable, it doesn't mean they only feel that way because they "hate" Mike.

This is all true, but there *do* also seem to be a few people who actually *do* hate Mike, with an intensity completely out of all proportion when compared to his actual actions (at least that we know of).
There's also the weird thing where those of us who *ever* defend Mike are accused by some (not you) of having some weird agenda other than fairness or the truth. By any objective reckoning I'd be in the "anti-Mike" camp (yes, despite my icon -- the only photo I have of myself with any of the BBs. If there were photos of the times I've met Brian they'd be there instead) -- there is pretty much a direct negative correlation between the amount of involvement Mike had in a given album and the amount I like it, while my favourite BB-related albums are things like Smiley, Love You, and That Lucky Old Sun.
But because I think that Mike's band are very good -- not as good as Brian's, but very good -- and that their UK theatre shows in 2008 and 2015 were astonishingly good, and I don't see the end of the 2012 tour as being a terrible catastrophe caused solely by Mike's malice, I've had all sorts of weird accusations thrown at me.
This has a weird sort of polarising effect. I end up thinking "well, if I only *quite* like Mike, and that's enough to make me seem such a big supporter that they'll say those things, how much must those people hate him?" -- I suspect others have the same view. Of course no sensible Brianista hates Mike -- you don't, Wirestone doesn't, and so on. Hatred is reserved in sensible people for those who do truly evil things. But a few people are having a very good go at making it appear that we're a lot more polarised than most of us really are, and that "you're either with us or against us". For me, whenever anyone says that, whatever they're for, I'm against it...

It's very odd, because really our opinions of the band members on a personal level shouldn't matter at all, and most of us clearly have so little experience of them that we can't possibly make any kind of judgment, but every discussion about the band is warped by this non-issue. I've not yet had a chance to read Iain's article (I was travelling until Friday, and haven't had a chance to get to a newsagent since), but if it goes too far in the other direction that still may make it worth while as a corrective (and I'm sure it's worth reading -- I've known Iain a few years and he's generally a very witty and knowledgeable person when talking about 60s pop stuff).
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« Reply #48 on: January 04, 2016, 12:08:10 PM »

I think one of the issues with Mike, and why the criticism seems incessant, is that some of the things people don’t like about him are continual, on-going issues. It isn’t just one time where a bad decision was made, or one interview where someone thinks something said was out of line.

He has continually been pretty unapologetic about, well, most everything. Above all else, the lack of apparent ability to admit a mistake or flaw that concerns him and only him is at the root of a lot of it, I think.

I think harping on one specific thing does get tired. In a few cases, Mike has changed course rendering a specific criticism invalid. The setlists would be the main example. While the underlying context of his live presentation is a separate issue and debatable, one can no longer call him the “traveling jukebox” where he “only plays the hits.”

But if someone thinks he is overly-defensive, unwilling to admit personal flaws or mistakes, and so on, those are ongoing things that haven’t as yet gone away.

I have seen few “band” fan communities where a specific band member is shown so much disdain. I think that fact means fans should engage in some self-reflection and think about whether we’re being too hard, or whether we’re letting negativity overrun the enjoyment of the band and its music. But having such a large contingent of fans be so negative about him isn’t all some horrible misunderstanding. Mike causes A LOT of that.
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« Reply #49 on: January 04, 2016, 12:23:12 PM »

I'm not arguing that Mike's attitude doesn't rub a lot of people up the wrong way. Just that there are a group of people for whom hating Mike seemingly overrides everything else, and it seems to distort the whole culture of Beach Boys fandom in unpleasant ways. Saying "I think Mike is overly defensive and unwilling to admit mistakes" is a reasonable position which one can agree with, disagree with, or ignore (for my own part, I think that's probably true, but I also don't really care -- as I said, I don't have much invested in the band members' personalities). The screaming rages some people seem to go into are a different matter though.
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