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Author Topic: Making a living  (Read 5937 times)
Emily
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« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2015, 09:07:18 PM »

Adam's comments about platforms and communities are well put, but they're only important if the point of being a creator is making a living at it.

We are transitioning to a time when -- because many more people are creating content of all kinds --- the absolute value of any one creator will likely be low enough that there's no economic reason to reward them financially. There will always be exceptions, given that there will continue to be some type of mass media, but its influence and financial power will be less.

And yes, that may mean that many people won't pursue arts careers. But others may find the lack of barriers enticing on their own and not mind the lack of financial reward.
I see what you're saying but I also think there are three benefits lost:
1. How will masters develop?  It's hard to imagine real virtuosos developing when they're spending 50 hours a week in a cubicle or driving a cab. Will there be no virtuosos, just a multitude of hobbyists? I think the value of some people making a living at an art is that those people can develop proficiency beyond ordinary talent and part-time skills. I'm not saying only experts are worth-while, but I do think they are important.
2. I think working in a full-time corporate job stifles creativity and is brain-washing. I think it's important to have artists that are independent of those structures and can think in ways that challenge existing norms because they are not living entirely within the system that perpetuates those norms.
3. How will people be able to efficiently find the work that interests them, and how will artists be able to efficiently expose their work to the audience that might be interested? A lot of people put their random musings and videos of themselves baking cookies on the internet. How do I get through all that junk to find stuff that does the higher work of art?

So, I don't think it's only important if the point is to make a living. It's important to me that we have artists that are able to focus on their art, as creators and as crafts-people, without having their minds killed in a corporate job. It's also important to me that I can find the work of those artists.

I'm not unhappy with things changing, but I'm concerned that the baby will be thrown out with the bathwater. Do you suppose within the new marketplace, systems will arise that will address the above concerns?


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Emily
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« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2015, 09:20:19 PM »


What are all the new Berklee graduates doing? What can they hope to do? What can they expect to do?


I can address this. As far as "new", meaning class of 2015 or '16? Probably the same as other college graduates - Pursuing a career in their chosen field. As far as "recent", go back maybe two decades and I can give some examples of people I know, people I went to school with, or just Berklee people in general who are doing some cool things.

Studios, hospitals, schools, arenas, TV, film, arenas, clubs, video game companies...it's up to the Berklee students what they choose to do, and if they happen to get one of the winning lottery tickets and score really big on the Imagine Dragons or "See You Again" level...what they learned in even one class may have went into making that success. They worked and hustled gigs and opportunities just like graduates and students at any school in any field, whatever happens in their life later can sometimes be completely opposite what the plans were, or it might be exactly what they were dreaming of doing since they were a kid. Or sometimes they find a niche, whether it's regular gigging, teaching, composing, or whatever else comes along to change their life at a given moment.

Lot of stuff out there, lot of good things waiting to happen.


Awesome. I know a few guys who worked at (I think opened(?)) the studio in Somerville that Mike Love mentioned when talking about the Christmas single. I know a few others who are producing in Brooklyn. I'm glad so many are thriving.
I'll have to track down that video. I worked at Tower at Mass. Ave. and Newbury St. for a few years.
So do you find that the market is essentially unchanged? Or is it changed, but for neither better nor worse, just different?

eta - It seems, from Guitarfool's post, that there's a thriving market for music technicians and performers - which if you think about it makes sense, every movie and TV show features music. And there are lots of other fields for musicians.
I guess, upon reflection, my questions are more driven by concerns about support for people who create original music. Is there as much, less, more support for them in today's market?
« Last Edit: December 28, 2015, 09:27:04 PM by Emily » Logged
adamghost
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« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2015, 09:24:53 PM »

Adam's comments about platforms and communities are well put, but they're only important if the point of being a creator is making a living at it.

We are transitioning to a time when -- because many more people are creating content of all kinds --- the absolute value of any one creator will likely be low enough that there's no economic reason to reward them financially. There will always be exceptions, given that there will continue to be some type of mass media, but its influence and financial power will be less.

And yes, that may mean that many people won't pursue arts careers. But others may find the lack of barriers enticing on their own and not mind the lack of financial reward.
I see what you're saying but I also think there are three benefits lost:
1. How will masters develop?  It's hard to imagine real virtuosos developing when they're spending 50 hours a week in a cubicle or driving a cab. Will there be no virtuosos, just a multitude of hobbyists? I think the value of some people making a living at an art is that those people can develop proficiency beyond ordinary talent and part-time skills. I'm not saying only experts are worth-while, but I do think they are important.
2. I think working in a full-time corporate job stifles creativity and is brain-washing. I think it's important to have artists that are independent of those structures and can think in ways that challenge existing norms because they are not living entirely within the system that perpetuates those norms.
3. How will people be able to efficiently find the work that interests them, and how will artists be able to efficiently expose their work to the audience that might be interested? A lot of people put their random musings and videos of themselves baking cookies on the internet. How do I get through all that junk to find stuff that does the higher work of art?

So, I don't think it's only important if the point is to make a living. It's important to me that we have artists that are able to focus on their art, as creators and as crafts-people, without having their minds killed in a corporate job. It's also important to me that I can find the work of those artists.

I'm not unhappy with things changing, but I'm concerned that the baby will be thrown out with the bathwater. Do you suppose within the new marketplace, systems will arise that will address the above concerns?




Emily, you've asked exactly the right questions which limits my need to really say anything more.
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guitarfool2002
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« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2015, 09:34:08 PM »


What are all the new Berklee graduates doing? What can they hope to do? What can they expect to do?


I can address this. As far as "new", meaning class of 2015 or '16? Probably the same as other college graduates - Pursuing a career in their chosen field. As far as "recent", go back maybe two decades and I can give some examples of people I know, people I went to school with, or just Berklee people in general who are doing some cool things.

Studios, hospitals, schools, arenas, TV, film, arenas, clubs, video game companies...it's up to the Berklee students what they choose to do, and if they happen to get one of the winning lottery tickets and score really big on the Imagine Dragons or "See You Again" level...what they learned in even one class may have went into making that success. They worked and hustled gigs and opportunities just like graduates and students at any school in any field, whatever happens in their life later can sometimes be completely opposite what the plans were, or it might be exactly what they were dreaming of doing since they were a kid. Or sometimes they find a niche, whether it's regular gigging, teaching, composing, or whatever else comes along to change their life at a given moment.

Lot of stuff out there, lot of good things waiting to happen.


Awesome. I know a few guys who worked at (I think opened(?)) the studio in Somerville that Mike Love mentioned when talking about the Christmas single. I know a few others who are producing in Brooklyn. I'm glad so many are thriving.
I'll have to track down that video. I worked at Tower at Mass. Ave. and Newbury St. for a few years.
So do you find that the market is essentially unchanged? Or is it changed, but for neither better nor worse, just different?

eta - It seems, from Guitarfool's post, that there's a thriving market for music technicians and performers - which if you think about it makes sense, every movie and TV show features music. And there are lots of other fields for musicians.
I guess, upon reflection, my questions are more driven by concerns about support for people who create original music. Is there as much, less, more support for them in today's market?


You worked at Tower! How cool. When I lived at the 150 building, I was more than a regular there, I was always there. Great store - miss it quite a bit. Three floors of goodness. Were you there in the 90's? If so I was definitely a customer and knew some of your co-workers. Spent a lot of time and money at Mass ave and Newbury, and if Tower didn't have the best price, Newbury Comics was about 50 yards away. And even though it was what it was...Little Stevie's pizza was cheap, and tasted very good at 2AM. Scary place.

Before I started school, I heard about a legendary prank that was pulled at Berklee by Berklee students involving Steve Vai and Tower. Wish i could have seen that... Smiley
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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
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« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2015, 10:03:26 PM »

Times change. Whether we like it or not, we will all eventually find the answers to Emily's questions.

My instinct is that people will find the time and resources to do the things they love. Or art may become something only done by the wealthy. In many cases, that's already happening.
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Emily
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« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2015, 10:04:13 PM »


What are all the new Berklee graduates doing? What can they hope to do? What can they expect to do?


I can address this. As far as "new", meaning class of 2015 or '16? Probably the same as other college graduates - Pursuing a career in their chosen field. As far as "recent", go back maybe two decades and I can give some examples of people I know, people I went to school with, or just Berklee people in general who are doing some cool things.

Studios, hospitals, schools, arenas, TV, film, arenas, clubs, video game companies...it's up to the Berklee students what they choose to do, and if they happen to get one of the winning lottery tickets and score really big on the Imagine Dragons or "See You Again" level...what they learned in even one class may have went into making that success. They worked and hustled gigs and opportunities just like graduates and students at any school in any field, whatever happens in their life later can sometimes be completely opposite what the plans were, or it might be exactly what they were dreaming of doing since they were a kid. Or sometimes they find a niche, whether it's regular gigging, teaching, composing, or whatever else comes along to change their life at a given moment.

Lot of stuff out there, lot of good things waiting to happen.


Awesome. I know a few guys who worked at (I think opened(?)) the studio in Somerville that Mike Love mentioned when talking about the Christmas single. I know a few others who are producing in Brooklyn. I'm glad so many are thriving.
I'll have to track down that video. I worked at Tower at Mass. Ave. and Newbury St. for a few years.
So do you find that the market is essentially unchanged? Or is it changed, but for neither better nor worse, just different?

eta - It seems, from Guitarfool's post, that there's a thriving market for music technicians and performers - which if you think about it makes sense, every movie and TV show features music. And there are lots of other fields for musicians.
I guess, upon reflection, my questions are more driven by concerns about support for people who create original music. Is there as much, less, more support for them in today's market?


You worked at Tower! How cool. When I lived at the 150 building, I was more than a regular there, I was always there. Great store - miss it quite a bit. Three floors of goodness. Were you there in the 90's? If so I was definitely a customer and knew some of your co-workers. Spent a lot of time and money at Mass ave and Newbury, and if Tower didn't have the best price, Newbury Comics was about 50 yards away. And even though it was what it was...Little Stevie's pizza was cheap, and tasted very good at 2AM. Scary place.

Before I started school, I heard about a legendary prank that was pulled at Berklee by Berklee students involving Steve Vai and Tower. Wish i could have seen that... Smiley
Yeah. I miss Tower too. We have a facebook group for former employees. I was there in the early nineties. Tower was a great place to work, if you're fine with minimum wage, which I was at that time.  We still had the vinyl 45s when I started. I used to work til midnight on Sunday and the place would be dead for the last hour. They'd let me ransack the 45s and DJ with whatever I wanted. We'd dance around in the aisles. It was so much fun. My best friend worked at Newbury Comics and we'd hit up John Fleuvog's and Betsy Johnson every lunch break. Usually just to drool, but sometimes we had some money.
When I return to Boston I drift around Newbury St. and I feel old and sad for a minute, but it still has such an active pedestrian community that my interest gets perked pretty quickly.
What was the prank? Steve Vai.  A lot of great musicians showed up at Tower over the years.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2015, 10:30:39 PM by Emily » Logged
Emily
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« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2015, 10:12:28 PM »

incidentally, didn't our friend David Marks go to Berklee?
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guitarfool2002
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« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2015, 10:41:46 PM »

Yes, he did. And yes, it was the early 90's for me too. I'll get to the Vai story...

On Sunday nights at Tower, at least this was in 93 if I remember, maybe 94 too...they used to do an Oldies 103 trivia giveaway. Read the question over the mic on the 2nd floor, then the shoppers had so much time to write the answer, and the winner would get a free CD of their choice. I've been a trivia geek for a long time, so I would try if I could to make it to Tower Sunday nights. I won a Beach Boys two-fer there one Sunday night, I still have the receipt inside the CD case. But what I also did was...if I didn't know the answer, I'd take the escalator down to the 1st floor book section, and find any number of music reference books which had it. Take escalator back to the 2nd floor...win the CD.

I kind of felt bad about winning that many, so what I did was to start inviting friends there too. I'd feed them the answer, they'd drop it in the box, if they got picked (and there usually weren't too many people entering from what I could tell, or people just didn't figure out the answers were usually available in the book section), they started scoring free CD's too.

That was a fun scam. Hope the statute of limitations on exploiting radio promotions has expired...

Steve Vai: I heard this from a friend who claims he knew who was behind it, but I take no responsibility if it turns out to be urban legend instead of something that happened.

Berklee also became known for a time for attracting guitarists who were into shred, pyrotechnics, Steve Vai and Yngwie Malmsteen devotees...all of that. The late 80's, early 90's era of metal guitars and shredding. That was like a niche of students, I got to know a few too. So Steve Vai was an alum, and among those guitarists at Berklee he basically walked on water. He scored himself the Frank Zappa band's guitar chair right out of Berklee and went on tour with Zappa.

All that in mind, apparently Vai was coming to town for a gig or something. These Berklee guys made up these signs advertising a last-minute, In-Store appearance at Tower, scheduled for the next morning...last minute, no advance notice. So I think they went to Copy Cop or somewhere, and got dozens of flyers copied, and that night hung them around the Berklee 150 building and 1140 Boylston, all of them advertising this appearance by Vai at Tower the next morning.

Sure enough...there was a line already formed at Tower before they were opening that morning, all of these dudes carrying guitars, with the metal hair, the boots and leather jackets, the whole bit, and there was a line of them waiting for this exclusive Vai in-store promotion.

Only there was no Steve Vai.

Again, take that as how it was told to me - I didn't see it, but only heard the story. pretty funny to have that image of all these dudes lined up stretching past the Green Line and Au Bon Pain over the Pike, with guitars waiting to meet Vai.

Did it happen? Who knows.  Grin

PS...Did one of your Tower coworkers (a manager I think) at that time resemble Jesus, with beard and long straight hair...and first name started with "N"? If so, one of my best friends at the time shared a house with him. They had a blowout party at that house one time and a lot of his Tower co-workers were hanging out. i was there.

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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
Emily
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« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2015, 11:05:40 PM »

Yes, he did. And yes, it was the early 90's for me too. I'll get to the Vai story...

On Sunday nights at Tower, at least this was in 93 if I remember, maybe 94 too...they used to do an Oldies 103 trivia giveaway. Read the question over the mic on the 2nd floor, then the shoppers had so much time to write the answer, and the winner would get a free CD of their choice. I've been a trivia geek for a long time, so I would try if I could to make it to Tower Sunday nights. I won a Beach Boys two-fer there one Sunday night, I still have the receipt inside the CD case. But what I also did was...if I didn't know the answer, I'd take the escalator down to the 1st floor book section, and find any number of music reference books which had it. Take escalator back to the 2nd floor...win the CD.

I kind of felt bad about winning that many, so what I did was to start inviting friends there too. I'd feed them the answer, they'd drop it in the box, if they got picked (and there usually weren't too many people entering from what I could tell, or people just didn't figure out the answers were usually available in the book section), they started scoring free CD's too.

That was a fun scam. Hope the statute of limitations on exploiting radio promotions has expired...
That contest thing started a few months before I left. I don't know about the statute of limitations, but I'm gonna report you anyway.  Razz

Steve Vai: I heard this from a friend who claims he knew who was behind it, but I take no responsibility if it turns out to be urban legend instead of something that happened.

It sounds familiar. I'm going to check with a friend from Tower that I actually stayed with for a few days this last summer. We did some reminiscing. She could remember names, places, times... not me. I remember impressions more. Like Berklee students had a ton of hair.
She can also help me remember exactly what years I was there. I think end of '90-mid '93.

PS...Did one of your Tower coworkers (a manager I think) at that time resemble Jesus, with beard and long straight hair...and first name started with "N"? If so, one of my best friends at the time shared a house with him. They had a blowout party at that house one time and a lot of his Tower co-workers were hanging out. i was there.
I'm going to check with her on this too. I remember a couple of Jesus guys. One named Nick with a kind of fullish-goatee and sort of dirty blond hair. Kind of a Jerry Cantrell look. Did he work on the rock floor? I didn't know anyone in Jazz or Classical and only a few people in video.
On the Facebook group there are some pictures of me at parties that I have absolutely NO recollection of. Good times!
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guitarfool2002
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« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2015, 11:36:37 PM »

I guess the Jesus look was popular at the time! If "N" had worn a robe and sandals, he'd look exactly like Jesus. I saw him most on the 2nd floor, behind the counter, and the party had to be '92 or winter '93. He was a Berklee guy too. Lot of hair in that area at that time. I had a bad version of Help-era Lennon hair hanging over my ears, and always wore open flannels with a vintage or some ironic brand T-shirt underneath. AKA: The grunge looking normal guy who was always there scamming free CD's from Oldies 103... Grin

I also knew very well someone who worked in the video section, and used that access to get one of those magnetic anti-shoplifting strips they'd put in the video cases to play a prank on another good friend. I stashed that little strip deep in his wallet, so whenever he walked through the video section the alarms would go off even though he didn't have any items. A few of us were there one time, one in the books and one in the videos, and we'd call him back and forth through the gates so the alarms went off each time he'd go through. They finally stopped him to see what was happening, we were almost crying laughing and had to bail out but we saw his arms go up, like he was saying "but i dont have anything!!!" to the Tower workers that stopped him. One of us went back and got him out of the jam and fessed up so he could get him out of there without getting searched. I'm proud of that prank...

Those were good times, what a great city and area to be in. Some of the in-store appearances were really cool, I think it was Rusted Root played there one time when their CD was coming out among others, another time for some reason Tower hired a Sinatra impersonator to perform karaoke just outside the front door, wearing a full three piece suit with flower in lapel and the works. That was kind of surreal. he did a good Sinatra, though.

Any info you can find out, especially about the Vai incident, please update! I'm hoping all these years later that it did actually happen. Smiley
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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
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« Reply #35 on: December 29, 2015, 01:41:12 PM »

If any of these links are helpful --   Smiley
http://www.projectmusic.co/
http://www.entrepreneur.com/slideshow/253389
http://www.billboard.com/articles/business/6708211/dart-music-distribution-service-classical-musicians-metadata

Also:  http://www.npr.org/2015/12/30/460030376/in-the-podcast-world-some-music-students-seek-a-career-gateway
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 11:55:15 AM by Sandy Baby » Logged

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