Randell Kirsch

[surf patrol]

 

[AndrewHickey]

If you don't know why he left, how do you "know" he was laid off, or by whom? Whatever the circumstances are, they've not been made public.
Apparently he's currently playing with a band called Among The Villains.

[Douchepool]

 Wonder what he is doing since getting layed off by Beach Boys management ie. Jackie Love

[donald]

does he still do gigs with Christian?

[Eric Aniversario]

He has played with the Surf City All Stars this year, and also other bands.

[AndrewHickey]

If you don't know why he left, how do you "know" he was laid off, or by whom? Whatever the circumstances are, they've not been made public.
Apparently he's currently playing with a band called Among The Villains.

Just in case my reply doesn't seem to make sense, be aware that Mx Patrol has edited their post, which was originally along the lines of "I wonder why Randell Kirsch was layed off [sic] by Jackie Love, and what he's been doing since"

[HeyJude]

Referring back to the posts going back and forth in the Mike Meros thread about backing band member changes, it seems like more times than not they don’t leave by their own choice.

We obviously don’t know for sure what happened with Randell Kirsche. I was also plenty willing to point out in that other thread that “employee separations” happening in the backing band, often not of their own accord, is not totally unlike many if not most other workplaces.

That being said, my strong hunch based on deduction and what I have heard from others (including those who tend to be quite “pro-Mike” or whatever one wants to call it) is that Randell Kirsche did not choose to leave the touring band. I also sense “Ike” was poached from Brian’s band, both for his musical abilities and as a passive-aggressive swipe. Just my guess/opinion/hunch. This is not to heap a bunch of extra useless scorn on Mike or his touring band. But I also don’t think ANYONE involved in running the touring band over all these years has much benefit of doubt left for fans to just assume that when they snag a guy from another touring band, and then a current touring band guy exits, that the guy exiting is just choosing to “move on to other projects.”

Perhaps more than at any other time in the touring band’s history, playing in Mike’s band is an *awesome* gig for a working musician who likes singing and playing and who (of course) wants and needs to make an income. Mike may run a “lean” touring operation, but I’m sure most if not all of the guys in Mike’s band make more money on that gig than they have in any other “backing band” gig. Even if Mike pays a little less on average per show, they play a TON of shows. It’s year-round work, and Mike has cultivated a band with guys like Totten who actually LOVE the Beach Boys’ music. It isn’t just a paycheck for them. So they’re not just getting a good (deserved) paycheck, they’re doing something they love.

The fact that many of these guys leave the touring band and then often immediately start appearing in the Papa Doo Run Run/Surf City All Stars/Endless Summer Band gigs with Al and/or Dean and/or David Marks would be a strong indicator they weren’t looking for retirement or to play *different* music or something.

How many people from the backing band do we *know* left by their own choice and didn’t soon after or immediately start doing BB covers gigs? Christian Love? Matt Jardine in 1998? One might argue he may have chosen to leave, but would have stayed had Al stayed in the band. Maybe Phil Bardowell back in 2000 or whenever that was? And even he ended up playing in one or more of the off-shoot covers bands eventually. Adrian Baker literally swapped out with Randell Kirsche in 2004 in Papa Doo Run Run. Hinsche and Carter were gigging with Al within three years of leaving the touring band. Mike Meros ended up doing some gigs with Al’s band after he “left” the touring band.

Anyway, we certainly shouldn’t assume anything about Randell Kirsche. But I certainly am highly skeptical of the idea that he just gave notice that he wanted to leave, and only *then* did they seek out a replacement. My guess is Mike wanted Ike (why that was is a separate sidebar possibly imbued with all sorts of weird politics), and Randell was out. We shouldn't exaggerate the nefarious nature of such an event. But we also shouldn't just assume it was a 100% mutual, happy event either.

[drbeachboy]

Referring back to the posts going back and forth in the Mike Meros thread about backing band member changes, it seems like more times than not they don’t leave by their own choice.

We obviously don’t know for sure what happened with Randell Kirsche. I was also plenty willing to point out in that other thread that “employee separations” happening in the backing band, often not of their own accord, is not totally unlike many if not most other workplaces.

That being said, my strong hunch based on deduction and what I have heard from others (including those who tend to be quite “pro-Mike” or whatever one wants to call it) is that Randell Kirsche did not choose to leave the touring band. I also sense “Ike” was poached from Brian’s band, both for his musical abilities and as a passive-aggressive swipe. Just my guess/opinion/hunch. This is not to heap a bunch of extra useless scorn on Mike or his touring band. But I also don’t think ANYONE involved in running the touring band over all these years has much benefit of doubt left for fans to just assume that when they snag a guy from another touring band, and then a current touring band guy exits, that the guy exiting is just choosing to “move on to other projects.”

Perhaps more than at any other time in the touring band’s history, playing in Mike’s band is an *awesome* gig for a working musician who likes singing and playing and who (of course) wants and needs to make an income. Mike may run a “lean” touring operation, but I’m sure most if not all of the guys in Mike’s band make more money on that gig than they have in any other “backing band” gig. Even if Mike pays a little less on average per show, they play a TON of shows. It’s year-round work, and Mike has cultivated a band with guys like Totten who actually LOVE the Beach Boys’ music. It isn’t just a paycheck for them. So they’re not just getting a good (deserved) paycheck, they’re doing something they love.

The fact that many of these guys leave the touring band and then often immediately start appearing in the Papa Doo Run Run/Surf City All Stars/Endless Summer Band gigs with Al and/or Dean and/or David Marks would be a strong indicator they weren’t looking for retirement or to play *different* music or something.

How many people from the backing band do we *know* left by their own choice and didn’t soon after or immediately start doing BB covers gigs? Christian Love? Matt Jardine in 1998? One might argue he may have chosen to leave, but would have stayed had Al stayed in the band. Maybe Phil Bardowell back in 2000 or whenever that was? And even he ended up playing in one or more of the off-shoot covers bands eventually. Adrian Baker literally swapped out with Randell Kirsche in 2004 in Papa Doo Run Run. Hinsche and Carter were gigging with Al within three years of leaving the touring band. Mike Meros ended up doing some gigs with Al’s band after he “left” the touring band.

Anyway, we certainly shouldn’t assume anything about Randell Kirsche. But I certainly am highly skeptical of the idea that he just gave notice that he wanted to leave, and only *then* did they seek out a replacement. My guess is Mike wanted Ike (why that was is a separate sidebar possibly imbued with all sorts of weird politics), and Randell was out. We shouldn't exaggerate the nefarious nature of such an event. But we also shouldn't just assume it was a 100% mutual, happy event either.

May I ask, why is this our business? This is Mike's business arrangement, not ours. He can hire & fire whoever he wants. As for Ike & Jeff, they didn't have to leave Brian. It's not like Mike kidnapped them and held them hostage. I assume they were looking for something different and jumped at the chance to play in the Beach Boys band. For these guys it is as much business as it is about the music.

[Douchepool]

If one gig pays better than another why wouldn't you take it?

[Sheriff John Stone]

Referring back to the posts going back and forth in the Mike Meros thread about backing band member changes, it seems like more times than not they don’t leave by their own choice.

We obviously don’t know for sure what happened with Randell Kirsche. I was also plenty willing to point out in that other thread that “employee separations” happening in the backing band, often not of their own accord, is not totally unlike many if not most other workplaces.

That being said, my strong hunch based on deduction and what I have heard from others (including those who tend to be quite “pro-Mike” or whatever one wants to call it) is that Randell Kirsche did not choose to leave the touring band. I also sense “Ike” was poached from Brian’s band, both for his musical abilities and as a passive-aggressive swipe. Just my guess/opinion/hunch. This is not to heap a bunch of extra useless scorn on Mike or his touring band. But I also don’t think ANYONE involved in running the touring band over all these years has much benefit of doubt left for fans to just assume that when they snag a guy from another touring band, and then a current touring band guy exits, that the guy exiting is just choosing to “move on to other projects.”

Perhaps more than at any other time in the touring band’s history, playing in Mike’s band is an *awesome* gig for a working musician who likes singing and playing and who (of course) wants and needs to make an income. Mike may run a “lean” touring operation, but I’m sure most if not all of the guys in Mike’s band make more money on that gig than they have in any other “backing band” gig. Even if Mike pays a little less on average per show, they play a TON of shows. It’s year-round work, and Mike has cultivated a band with guys like Totten who actually LOVE the Beach Boys’ music. It isn’t just a paycheck for them. So they’re not just getting a good (deserved) paycheck, they’re doing something they love.

The fact that many of these guys leave the touring band and then often immediately start appearing in the Papa Doo Run Run/Surf City All Stars/Endless Summer Band gigs with Al and/or Dean and/or David Marks would be a strong indicator they weren’t looking for retirement or to play *different* music or something.

How many people from the backing band do we *know* left by their own choice and didn’t soon after or immediately start doing BB covers gigs? Christian Love? Matt Jardine in 1998? One might argue he may have chosen to leave, but would have stayed had Al stayed in the band. Maybe Phil Bardowell back in 2000 or whenever that was? And even he ended up playing in one or more of the off-shoot covers bands eventually. Adrian Baker literally swapped out with Randell Kirsche in 2004 in Papa Doo Run Run. Hinsche and Carter were gigging with Al within three years of leaving the touring band. Mike Meros ended up doing some gigs with Al’s band after he “left” the touring band.

Anyway, we certainly shouldn’t assume anything about Randell Kirsche. But I certainly am highly skeptical of the idea that he just gave notice that he wanted to leave, and only *then* did they seek out a replacement. My guess is Mike wanted Ike (why that was is a separate sidebar possibly imbued with all sorts of weird politics), and Randell was out. We shouldn't exaggerate the nefarious nature of such an event. But we also shouldn't just assume it was a 100% mutual, happy event either.

It's not like Mike kidnapped them and held them hostage.

He poached 'em!

[Douchepool]

The idea of competition in a market is Greek to many people; unsurprisingly it is similarly Greek in these here parts. Supply and demand ain't that hard, guys.

[Bill30022]

I seem to recall that the issue with Mike Meros is that he didn't sing. Replacing him with a keyboardist who sings allowed the band to drop a slot. Didn't his departure coincide with Kowalski's (another no singer) departure? It was at that point that the backing band went from six pieces to five pieces.

Could Kirsch's departure be as simple as a way to save money - A new younger guy will usually be cheaper.

[Douchepool]

I also think Mike Kowalski's departure had to do with the fact that he was a stalwart from the late 1960s and as a result, his once-great drumming was dulled with age. Moving John Cowsill to drums was one genius maneuver in Michael's band - it tightened up the band immensely.

[donald]

People are fond of saying "It's all about the music".  But we all know that isn't exactly it.  From what I gather Mike's choice to tour so heavily is based on his desire to make more money, so it would follow that band decisions are made to further that goal for the most part.    People are expected to play, sing, and perform well and be willing to be on the road constantly.   

[AndrewHickey]

I seem to recall that the issue with Mike Meros is that he didn't sing. Replacing him with a keyboardist who sings allowed the band to drop a slot. Didn't his departure coincide with Kowalski's (another no singer) departure? It was at that point that the backing band went from six pieces to five pieces.

Could Kirsch's departure be as simple as a way to save money - A new younger guy will usually be cheaper.

No, Meros left at the same time (or close enough) as Phil Bardowell, with the two of them being replaced by John Cowsill and Scott Totten.
You're thinking of the changes in 2007ish, when Chris Farmer and Kowalski left at around the same time, Kirsch moved to bass, Cowsill moved to drums, and Christian Love joined on rhythm guitar.

I also agree with HeyJude that what I've heard is that Randell wasn't the one who chose to leave the band -- and if that's the case then I think it was a mistake on the part of Mike or whoever made the decision (I think Eichenberger is very good, but not noticeably better than Randell). My point was only that Surf Patrol was asking why he was sacked, which is rather begging the question.

[Douchepool]

What's funny is that he also used the "wifeandmanagers" strawman to make his implied point for us; funny and not a tiny bit hypocritical how it has received little criticism in this regard.

[Marty Castillo]

As far as I can tell, there has been nothing said public about the departure other than Mike's facebook post which thanked Randell for his time in the band and announced Eichenberger replacing him. There has been a lot of speculation in this thread with very little known facts to be added.

Many have suggested everything comes down to money. While that might be the main objective for some, it's not for everybody. It would make sense to leave Brian's band for Mike's band if we are too assume more tour dates equals higher pay. But, if someone wasn't keen to do 160+ dates per year, I could see why Brian's band would be preferable. One of my favorite comedians, Pete Holmes, often says (paraphrasing) he would do the shows for free, but they pay him to travel. Also, it's not like Ike was this huge unknown entity--I'm sure there were a few Four Freshmen fans who were sad to seem him leave for BW and then the BBs.

I don't know Randell and I don't claim to have any inside knowledge. It is entirely possible that Mike realized Ike was available and needed to open up a spot for him (I thought he was outstanding when I saw the band this past summer). It's also possible that Randell, a man in his 60s, decided that 160+ tour dates was more than he wanted to do and it was time to semi-retire. There have been a lot of folks saying "they heard" Randell didn't leave by choice, but I haven't seen anyone pointing to a credible source.

[TommyPlural]

I have no interest in perpetuating any negativity regarding relations between any of the touring Beach Boys camps, however the Beach Boys backing band and the various musical collaborators is an area that I've always been particularly fascinated by. I'm interested in the world of touring musicians in general but the Beach Boy world is full of so many twists and turns as we all know and the way in which some touring members have at times essentially been full band members in all but name (Hinsche, Foskett, Carter, Daryl Dragon, etc) is something that, while not unique to the Beach Boys, is an interesting aspect to the Beach Boys world. Once the 90s came around and the Beach Boys essentially ceased to be a recording act and split into the different factions, the 'capital T' Touring Band changed obviously, but the threads connecting all of the various touring lineups is very interesting. I've haphazardly attempted to make "family trees" of Beach Boys band lineups and I feel like there's a story to be told and with the right nudge I'd almost like to write a book about it - interview the various members and get their stories, completely avoid the topic of "dirty laundry" regarding the principals, just profile the backgrounds of the various people that have been in and out of the live show world of the Beach Boys and tell their stories while they're still around (and preserve the legacy of those that aren't). The book "When We Get To Surf City" by Bob Greene kind of cements this idea, and I was astounded when I randomly came upon the book in a library in 2009 that someone had written a book that told the stories of Randell Kirsch, Chris Farmer, and Gary Griffin among others. "Really? Someone outside of the 500-odd Beach Boy fanatics even knows who these guys are?"

Greene's book made me like Kirsch's personality (or at least the way he's portrayed), and I remember the first time I saw him perform live in the summer of 2004 and how much more I enjoyed the touring band show with him and Baker swapped out. I remember seeing Randell walking around the fair that the Beach Boys were performing at after the show was over and I talked myself out of approaching him as I don't like to bother people just trying to do their job but by all accounts he's a kind and humble man. I hope he's doing well with whatever project he's involved with.

[Douchepool]

On the Graduation Day Message Board, there was a flame war that erupted between factions in the Four Freshmen fan base over Brian Wilson and later Mike Love "poaching" Ike Eichenberger for their own groups. Scorched earth; dozens of members banned.

[HeyJude]

May I ask, why is this our business? This is Mike's business arrangement, not ours. He can hire & fire whoever he wants. As for Ike & Jeff, they didn't have to leave Brian. It's not like Mike kidnapped them and held them hostage. I assume they were looking for something different and jumped at the chance to play in the Beach Boys band. For these guys it is as much business as it is about the music.

Why is it our business? It's just discussion; the whole point of this board. The Beach Boys' entire career is one big business arrangement. Should we not discuss which labels they've been signed to either? Al being in Brian's band, that's a business arrangement too. Releasing CDs? Business arrangement.

As with everything else, Mike can do whatever he wants. It also means fans and spectators can react the way they want too. If you're the "it's all business" guy, then that's fine. But if someone thinks being the "it's all business" guy makes one look like a d**k sometimes, then we all have to live with that too.

As I've been saying, I don't think there's anything particularly nefarious about most of the backing band personnel changes. I'm sure sometimes it was deserved, sometimes needed, and sometimes people got screwed. Like any other workplace as I've been saying. I'm not prepared to chastise Mike for turnover in his own band, even if he's responsible for it. If we were going to do that, we'd indeed have to chastise Carl and Al in addition to Mike for Hinsche and Carter exiting, etc. But I'm also not going to assume it's "Tea Time at Buttercup Junction" in Mike's touring operation either.

I do think it's a bit ironic that there were a few folks that tried to contend in the aftermath of C50 that what Mike was *really* doing was looking out for the two guys were left unemployed in 2012: Christian Love and Randell Kirsche, arguing that Mike went back to his own band out of caring for those two guys. Now both guys are gone, and they may not have both exited of their own accord.

[HeyJude]

I seem to recall that the issue with Mike Meros is that he didn't sing. Replacing him with a keyboardist who sings allowed the band to drop a slot. Didn't his departure coincide with Kowalski's (another no singer) departure? It was at that point that the backing band went from six pieces to five pieces.

Could Kirsch's departure be as simple as a way to save money - A new younger guy will usually be cheaper.

I think the “not a singer” thing was a justification bandied about at the time concerning the exit of Mike Meros. But there were also some other grumblings online back around that time. I don’t recall all the details and don’t know if all the posts are still online. But there were folks posting info suggesting Meros got fudged in the whole ordeal.

They also could have sacked Bonhomme and kept Meros, as I don’t think Bonhomme does a ton of singing either.

My guess, and again just a guess, is that Meros’s exist was a cost-cutting measure, justified by the “he doesn’t sing” excuse. Interestingly, Meros’s last show with the touring band was televised as I recall; it was a 4th of July gig and I think they made a quick mention of it being his last show. I always got the sense his exit was not known WAY in advance, but he certainly knew by that time.

[donald]

I've spoken to three members of the touring group over the past several months at different shows and to a close friend of a many decade member about the band and the touring.   They are all tired, some feeling their age, and all feel pressured to put out their best effort on more dates than they really care to play but don't have a voice on how many shows are performed so keep going to keep their jobs.  And they all appear very road weary.  I suspect that when an individual member begins to slip a bit in attitude or performance it becomes an issue of are you with the program or not.  I don't think Mike randomly replaces or fires people, he is just in charge and will see that the band functions as he sees fit for as many shows as he is willing to do in a given year.   

[drbeachboy]

May I ask, why is this our business? This is Mike's business arrangement, not ours. He can hire & fire whoever he wants. As for Ike & Jeff, they didn't have to leave Brian. It's not like Mike kidnapped them and held them hostage. I assume they were looking for something different and jumped at the chance to play in the Beach Boys band. For these guys it is as much business as it is about the music.

Why is it our business? It's just discussion; the whole point of this board. The Beach Boys' entire career is one big business arrangement. Should we not discuss which labels they've been signed to either? Al being in Brian's band, that's a business arrangement too. Releasing CDs? Business arrangement.

As with everything else, Mike can do whatever he wants. It also means fans and spectators can react the way they want too. If you're the "it's all business" guy, then that's fine. But if someone thinks being the "it's all business" guy makes one look like a d**k sometimes, then we all have to live with that too.

As I've been saying, I don't think there's anything particularly nefarious about most of the backing band personnel changes. I'm sure sometimes it was deserved, sometimes needed, and sometimes people got screwed. Like any other workplace as I've been saying. I'm not prepared to chastise Mike for turnover in his own band, even if he's responsible for it. If we were going to do that, we'd indeed have to chastise Carl and Al in addition to Mike for Hinsche and Carter exiting, etc. But I'm also not going to assume it's "Tea Time at Buttercup Junction" in Mike's touring operation either.

I do think it's a bit ironic that there were a few folks that tried to contend in the aftermath of C50 that what Mike was *really* doing was looking out for the two guys were left unemployed in 2012: Christian Love and Randell Kirsche, arguing that Mike went back to his own band out of caring for those two guys. Now both guys are gone, and they may not have both exited of their own accord.

My point, if you don't know, then don't speculate. I have no problem discussing anything as long as it is factual.

[HeyJude]

My point, if you don't know, then don't speculate. I have no problem discussing anything as long as it is factual.

Sorry, I completely disagree. Most of what is discussed here is speculation and opinion. If we avoided speculation, then it would all be "favorite songs" polls and whatnot. Nearly every "Smile" discussion ever undertaken would be null and void. Nearly every discussion on inter-band relationships would be negated.

It's all clearly labeled as speculation and guesses. Nobody is saying they know for certain what happened. Indeed, I've made sure in EVERY post related to this topic that I've clearly stated we don't know what happened. But there's enough information and interest to speculate.

[drbeachboy]

My point, if you don't know, then don't speculate. I have no problem discussing anything as long as it is factual.

Sorry, I completely disagree. Most of what is discussed here is speculation and opinion. If we avoided speculation, then it would all be "favorite songs" polls and whatnot. Nearly every "Smile" discussion ever undertaken would be null and void. Nearly every discussion on inter-band relationships would be negated.

It's all clearly labeled as speculation and guesses. Nobody is saying they know for certain what happened. Indeed, I've made sure in EVERY post related to this topic that I've clearly stated we don't know what happened. But there's enough information and interest to speculate.

So, if you get a speculative answer, then where does that leave us? Not knowing anymore or less than where we started. Seems futile to me and only leads to band member bashing. Especially, if they think the speculation is the actual truth.