Randell Kirsch

[lastofmykind]

I really really feel like Scotty T has done an awesome awesome job bring this band back into form after the 2007 personnel changes.  But in just preferences I agree with Historical Pistol Whip on the Kirsch/Love/Cowsill/Bonhomme/Totten configuration was my favorite.  Christian Love had some great vocal capabilities that never really got to shine through though, at points he had some tonality that sounded freakishly like Carl.  I can remember hearing him sing God Only Knows one night in a private setting and i was just floored with how remarkable it was. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6Qe0dZPJKo

Christian, when he was on form, could sound great. But there were times when he didn't seem like his heart was in it, which never seems the case with Jeff.

I think that is a fair assessment, but off stage he is genuinely just a great guy very mellow and super nice!

[mikeddonn]

@ Mikeddon I did some research on youtube and from what I can tell during the summer 2015 tours Foskett does not have a guitar on him during GOK!  My deduction is since Scott took over as musical director they do not use a rhythm guitar on GOK in the live performance.  To be honest I don't even know if GOK was originally recorded with any type or rhythm guitar!  Would love to find out if it was!

Thanks for finding that out.  That could be the reason then.  Outside of Carl singing GOK Christian was the next best.  I agree, they should have utilised him more when he was with the group.

I'm also enjoying reading your informative posts. 

[AndrewHickey]

I really really feel like Scotty T has done an awesome awesome job bring this band back into form after the 2007 personnel changes.  But in just preferences I agree with Historical Pistol Whip on the Kirsch/Love/Cowsill/Bonhomme/Totten configuration was my favorite.  Christian Love had some great vocal capabilities that never really got to shine through though, at points he had some tonality that sounded freakishly like Carl.  I can remember hearing him sing God Only Knows one night in a private setting and i was just floored with how remarkable it was. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6Qe0dZPJKo

Christian, when he was on form, could sound great. But there were times when he didn't seem like his heart was in it, which never seems the case with Jeff.

I think that is a fair assessment, but off stage he is genuinely just a great guy very mellow and super nice!

Yeah. I only met him once, very briefly, but I've never heard a bad word about him as a person. And I wasn't meaning to be too critical of him as a performer either -- he always sang well. I think Jeff is *better*, but I enjoyed every show I saw Christian play.

[AndrewHickey]

Phil Bardowell left for personel reasons and it wasn't anything to do with working on a project. That is a Cowsill fabrication.

I think "fabrication" is a little harsh. It's possible that years later he was simply misremembering.

And actually, I now think it's *more* than a little harsh, and that surf patrol owes Cowsill a massive apology.
What Cowsill said: "Phil Bardowell asked if I could sub for him in Europe while he worked on his solo project."
What Bardowell says at http://www.philipbardowell.com/bio : "Philip continued in his role as lead guitarist and vocalist for the Beach Boys until 2001 when he left the band to write and record his own music and pursue other endeavors. Philip's first solo album, "In A Perfect World…" was released later that year and was met with success and great reviews"

Unless Bardowell has started putting other people's "fabrications" about his life in his official website bio, Cowsill wasn't even misremembering.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Seems the fabrications were in Hennessey's posts.

[c-man]

@ Mikeddon I did some research on youtube and from what I can tell during the summer 2015 tours Foskett does not have a guitar on him during GOK!  My deduction is since Scott took over as musical director they do not use a rhythm guitar on GOK in the live performance.  To be honest I don't even know if GOK was originally recorded with any type or rhythm guitar!  Would love to find out if it was!

Thanks for finding that out.   That could be the reason then.  Outside of Carl singing GOK Christian was the next best.  I agree, they should have utilised him more when he was with the group.

I'm also enjoying reading your informative posts.  

(a) Scott took over as Musical Director in late 2007  - in the seven times I saw them in 2009, and the one time each I saw them in 2011 and 2013, both Scott and Christian played guitar on GOK EDIT: each of those times, Bruce sang the lead - it could be that Christian wasn't actually strumming his guitar in the above-mentioned video b/c he was concentrating on singing lead
(b) When I saw them in December 2014, Jeff did not play guitar on GOK (EDIT: he only sang, along with the rest of them, in support of Carl's recorded lead)
(c) There is indeed a rhythm guitar on the studio version of GOK - which I've become convinced is played by Carol Kaye - EDIT: it's a 12-string electric, heard clearly at one point between takes on the tracking session tape - the jazzy nature of this between-take doodling is what, in part, convinced me that it's Carol and not Carl - Carl's between-take doodling typically consisted of Memphis-style licks or Beatles riffs, not the jazzy runs heard here

[Marty Castillo]

Seems the fabrications were in Hennessey's posts.

Who is this guy and why has he edited all his old posts?

He went from honoring Meros to shitting on anyone associated with the touring band post-Meros. Classy! Great way to honor your "friend".

[AndrewHickey]

Seems the fabrications were in Hennessey's posts.

Who is this guy and why has he edited all his old posts?

He went from honoring Meros to shitting on anyone associated with the touring band post-Meros. Classy! Great way to honor your "friend".

He's a fan who's friendly with various former backing band members, and holds a grudge, either (charitably and to give him the benefit of doubt) because his friends lost their jobs (and despite me thinking some of those friends were not competent, there's an admirable loyalty there) or (uncharitably, but what some other people who know him have been saying about him) because he used to get backstage passes etc and no longer does since his friends left the backing band.
He uses various names to post abuse, usually directed at Jacqueline Love, who he blames for his friends losing their jobs, and to "defend" people against accusations, often imaginary. (His favourite technique, one he's been using at least since he commented on a blog post of mine in 2008, is to imply that any criticism of Mike Kowalski or Adrian Baker is really a criticism of Carl Wilson, and then to "defend" Carl against the entirely imaginary attack).

[Andrew G. Doe]

Australian.

He edited out the previous posts because his lies about the backing band being paid just $200 a show and Phil not leaving to pursue other projects were shown to be just that. End of story...  

[Marty Castillo]

^ and ^^ Thanks to both of you for the replies. Bad form editing/changing posts because your wrong. Best to own up to it.

[Emily]

This thread has been really educational for someone with little knowledge of the touring band. Thanks.

[Emily]

Seems the fabrications were in Hennessey's posts.

Who is this guy and why has he edited all his old posts?

He went from honoring Meros to shitting on anyone associated with the touring band post-Meros. Classy! Great way to honor your "friend".

He's a fan who's friendly with various former backing band members, and holds a grudge, either (charitably and to give him the benefit of doubt) because his friends lost their jobs (and despite me thinking some of those friends were not competent, there's an admirable loyalty there) or (uncharitably, but what some other people who know him have been saying about him) because he used to get backstage passes etc and no longer does since his friends left the backing band.
He uses various names to post abuse, usually directed at Jacqueline Love, who he blames for his friends losing their jobs, and to "defend" people against accusations, often imaginary. (His favourite technique, one he's been using at least since he commented on a blog post of mine in 2008, is to imply that any criticism of Mike Kowalski or Adrian Baker is really a criticism of Carl Wilson, and then to "defend" Carl against the entirely imaginary attack).

Does Jacqueline Love (no disrespect intended if that's not the last name she uses) have an official position within the Beach Boys organization or is her only official connection her marriage to Mike Love?

[donald]

Care to show how you got those figures ?

Just a rough guesstimate Andrew......after someone suggested 200 per show.    why would anyone do that job for less than 100,000 us per year?    I work for a school system  where many administrators make that and they get to go home each nite and have weekends off.   Look at what the touring band takes in doing the number of shows they do in a year.   So I picked up my calculator and did a guesstimate just out of curiosity:)

[Robbie Mac]

Care to show how you got those figures ?

Just a rough guesstimate Andrew......after someone suggested 200 per show.    why would anyone do that job for less than 100,000 us per year?    I work for a school system  where many administrators make that and they get to go home each nite and have weekends off.   Look at what the touring band takes in doing the number of shows they do in a year.   So I picked up my calculator and did a guesstimate just out of curiosity:)

The 200 figure has been debunked.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Care to show how you got those figures ?

Just a rough guesstimate Andrew......after someone suggested 200 per show.    why would anyone do that job for less than 100,000 us per year?    I work for a school system  where many administrators make that and they get to go home each nite and have weekends off.   Look at what the touring band takes in doing the number of shows they do in a year.   So I picked up my calculator and did a guesstimate just out of curiosity:)

Your math skills could use some polishing. $200 x 180 shows = $36,000, and that's gross. Where the hell you got between a quarter and half a million bucks from those figures is a complete mystery. Even using the more accurate figure of $700 only yields a gross of $126,000.

[SMiLE Brian]

quite a thread....

[AndrewHickey]

Seems the fabrications were in Hennessey's posts.

Who is this guy and why has he edited all his old posts?

He went from honoring Meros to shitting on anyone associated with the touring band post-Meros. Classy! Great way to honor your "friend".

He's a fan who's friendly with various former backing band members, and holds a grudge, either (charitably and to give him the benefit of doubt) because his friends lost their jobs (and despite me thinking some of those friends were not competent, there's an admirable loyalty there) or (uncharitably, but what some other people who know him have been saying about him) because he used to get backstage passes etc and no longer does since his friends left the backing band.
He uses various names to post abuse, usually directed at Jacqueline Love, who he blames for his friends losing their jobs, and to "defend" people against accusations, often imaginary. (His favourite technique, one he's been using at least since he commented on a blog post of mine in 2008, is to imply that any criticism of Mike Kowalski or Adrian Baker is really a criticism of Carl Wilson, and then to "defend" Carl against the entirely imaginary attack).

Does Jacqueline Love (no disrespect intended if that's not the last name she uses) have an official position within the Beach Boys organization or is her only official connection her marriage to Mike Love?

It is the surname she uses. I don't think she has an official role within BRI (the Beach Boys' own company), although she did apparently have a role as stylist or something during the reunion tour. I think she does, however, have an official role in MELECO (Mike Love's company which runs the touring operation).

It is, however, customary for people on this board to blame Mike and Brian's wives for any perceived problems with their careers, rather than assuming that Mike and Brian are grown adults who can run their own lives. Personally, since Mike's band have gone from being an embarrassment when I first became a fan, to being one of the best live acts out there, while since Brian married Melinda he's released several truly great albums, put together the best group of musicians in the world today, and done some of the best live shows I've ever seen, I think that if Jacqueline and Melinda *have* been pulling their husbands' strings, they both deserve enormous credit rather than opprobrium.

[Emily]

He's a fan who's friendly with various former backing band members, and holds a grudge, either (charitably and to give him the benefit of doubt) because his friends lost their jobs (and despite me thinking some of those friends were not competent, there's an admirable loyalty there) or (uncharitably, but what some other people who know him have been saying about him) because he used to get backstage passes etc and no longer does since his friends left the backing band.
He uses various names to post abuse, usually directed at Jacqueline Love, who he blames for his friends losing their jobs, and to "defend" people against accusations, often imaginary. (His favourite technique, one he's been using at least since he commented on a blog post of mine in 2008, is to imply that any criticism of Mike Kowalski or Adrian Baker is really a criticism of Carl Wilson, and then to "defend" Carl against the entirely imaginary attack).

Does Jacqueline Love (no disrespect intended if that's not the last name she uses) have an official position within the Beach Boys organization or is her only official connection her marriage to Mike Love?

It is the surname she uses. I don't think she has an official role within BRI (the Beach Boys' own company), although she did apparently have a role as stylist or something during the reunion tour. I think she does, however, have an official role in MELECO (Mike Love's company which runs the touring operation).

It is, however, customary for people on this board to blame Mike and Brian's wives for any perceived problems with their careers, rather than assuming that Mike and Brian are grown adults who can run their own lives. Personally, since Mike's band have gone from being an embarrassment when I first became a fan, to being one of the best live acts out there, while since Brian married Melinda he's released several truly great albums, put together the best group of musicians in the world today, and done some of the best live shows I've ever seen, I think that if Jacqueline and Melinda *have* been pulling their husbands' strings, they both deserve enormous credit rather than opprobrium.

It's the Yoko thing and it's inane. All the people around them have influence on their decisions; hopefully they respect their wives and their wives have influence on their decisions; but in the end, their decisions are their own. Even if their decisions are to do exactly as their wives say, it's still their decision.
Jacqueline Love would only be responsible if she was in a management position that would allow her to hire and fire band members.
And I agree that both seem to be doing well so both seem to be making pretty good decisions.

[AndrewHickey]

It's the Yoko thing and it's inane. All the people around them have influence on their decisions; hopefully they respect their wives and their wives have influence on their decisions; but in the end, their decisions are their own. Even if their decisions are to do exactly as their wives say, it's still their decision.
Jacqueline Love would only be responsible if she was in a management position that would allow her to hire and fire band members.
And I agree that both seem to be doing well so both seem to be making pretty good decisions.

Quite. Sadly, it happens with almost every male musician -- their wives get the blame for anything the fans don't like. I've seen it happen in the Monkees and Zappa fandoms too.

[donald]

Care to show how you got those figures ?

Just a rough guesstimate Andrew......after someone suggested 200 per show.    why would anyone do that job for less than 100,000 us per year?    I work for a school system  where many administrators make that and they get to go home each nite and have weekends off.   Look at what the touring band takes in doing the number of shows they do in a year.   So I picked up my calculator and did a guesstimate just out of curiosity:)

Your math skills could use some polishing. $200 x 180 shows = $36,000, and that's gross. Where the hell you got between a quarter and half a million bucks from those figures is a complete mystery. Even using the more accurate figure of $700 only yields a gross of $126,000.

.                 

never mind, my point was that I thought it must be more like 2000 rather than 200, which I knew was ridiculous.   Just playing with a calculator ,  Andrew, what would you estimate the net for Mike and the touring band after paying all costs and taxes and the cut payed to the BB organization?   FYI, I simply guessed average venue of 3000, average ticket 50 dollars and 180 shows.    Accurate or not is a place to start a guesstimate.    Just for fun, what would you guess?

[AndrewHickey]

never mind, my point was that I thought it must be more like 2000 rather than 200, which I knew was ridiculous.   Just playing with a calculator ,  Andrew, what would you estimate the net for Mike and the touring band after paying all costs and taxes and the cut payed to the BB organization?   FYI, I simply guessed average venue of 3000, average ticket 50 dollars and 180 shows.    Accurate or not is a place to start a guesstimate.    Just for fun, what would you guess?

The problem is that you're assuming there's a "net for Mike and the touring band" that's split between the band members. The backing band members are (as I understand it) paid a set rate per show, not a percentage of the takings.

[Theydon Bois]

It's the Yoko thing and it's inane. All the people around them have influence on their decisions; hopefully they respect their wives and their wives have influence on their decisions; but in the end, their decisions are their own. Even if their decisions are to do exactly as their wives say, it's still their decision.
Jacqueline Love would only be responsible if she was in a management position that would allow her to hire and fire band members.
And I agree that both seem to be doing well so both seem to be making pretty good decisions.

Quite. Sadly, it happens with almost every male musician -- their wives get the blame for anything the fans don't like. I've seen it happen in the Monkees and Zappa fandoms too.

Oh God, it's completely toxic in Zappa world, you're quite right.  And for whatever my anecdotal evidence is worth, I met Gail (may she rest in peace) and she was absolutely charming.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

Nice to see Mike's online PR managers to the rescue.

They're so true to form. And one of 'em complains loudly about sardonic behavior here . Fairly shallow, huh?

[Cam Mott]

It is, however, customary for people on this board to blame Mike and Brian's wives for any perceived problems with their careers, rather than assuming that Mike and Brian are grown adults who can run their own lives. Personally, since Mike's band have gone from being an embarrassment when I first became a fan, to being one of the best live acts out there, while since Brian married Melinda he's released several truly great albums, put together the best group of musicians in the world today, and done some of the best live shows I've ever seen, I think that if Jacqueline and Melinda *have* been pulling their husbands' strings, they both deserve enormous credit rather than opprobrium.

+1

[Shady]

It's unfair to blame the bands wives for anything, I doubt they had a final say in matters.

At the same time, going from what we've read over the years, it's possible they have been negative influences, which is fair game to point out IMO