Good Vibrations Success and Smile's Demise
Emily:
Quote from: filledeplage on January 08, 2016, 11:00:59 AM
Quote from: Emily on January 08, 2016, 10:55:49 AM
Quote from: filledeplage on January 08, 2016, 08:09:05 AM
Quote from: Emily on January 08, 2016, 08:04:02 AM
Quote from: filledeplage on January 08, 2016, 07:58:06 AM
Quote from: Emily on January 08, 2016, 07:45:45 AM
FdP, regarding Jules Siegel, I would guess he was commissioned by the Saturday Evening Post to write the article. Most magazines just have a small staff of writers to do their regular columns; the features are usually either accepted by submission or, more often, commissioned. If this was the case with Siegel, he would've been working on assignment by the SEP.
Emily - look on the eBay link for the cover of the Aug. 12, 1967 edition. Maybe it is blocked in the UK as Andrew did not seem to be able to open it. You will see the position of The Saturday Evening Post on the front page. Maybe if he was "commissioned" as you suggest he may have been given a stipend for his "efforts" notwithstanding the story not being published. I don't know.
That publication was not likely running an article that was contrary to it's editorial position or it's "version" of the (it's) truth.
S/he who has the gold, rules. And that goes hand-in-hand, with what gets submitted as a final copy for publication.
I'm not questioning why it wasn't published. :-\
Emily - now, there seems to be a divergence of accounts as to what went down. That is a good thing.
What I can now look at as lacking, is whether there was any independent fact finding which took place to verify the account of the storyteller, notwithstanding the editorial position of the TSEP. ;)
I'm sorry. I don't know what you're referring to in the red bold above. There's a divergence of accounts as to what went down regarding what? Regarding Smile, for sure. There seems to have been a divergence on that since 1967. Or do you mean regarding something else?
GF's account adding cred and a contrast to that which Jules wrote. ;)
huh. Maybe GuitarFool2002 can clarify, because I don't see a divergence between what he said and what Jules Siegel wrote.
filledeplage:
Quote from: guitarfool2002 on January 08, 2016, 07:31:55 AM
There is some blatantly false information being posted in this discussion, and wherever it's coming from it should be researched a bit more prior to posting as fact.
One that stood out, to start: David Anderle was introduced to the band through a relative and mutual friend of some of the Beach Boys in early 1965, then in the next year became closer to Brian and began to be a more frequent guest at Brian's house and the like. Van Dyke Parks said the first time he was in Brian's company was when David Crosby invited him to join him as Brian was previewing the Sloop John B single. Then Van Dyke and Brian more formally met at a party with Terry Melcher when Brian got the idea Van Dyke could write lyrics with him.
In no way did Van Dyke Parks "bring David Anderle into the organization", wherever that came from it doesn't line up at all with the facts.
That's just one example out of a laundry list of inconsistencies and outright incorrect facts being posted in this thread.
Emily - what GF wrote in this post. ;)
guitarfool2002:
What I will clarify is that Jules' article could have had a much more pointed personal bias, or even a grudge against Brian Wilson, but to his credit as a journalist and writer he didn't make that a part of his account. For the most part, especially the firsthand details about the studio sessions, events like the dinner party and listening sessions, and other events, Jules' account is accurate and lines up with what other participants saw and described. And it's also backed up by the audio proof we got through the years with the sessions.
I say he could have added more of a negative tone than he did because Jules was for a time in the inner circle with Brian. He's in the airport photo, he's prominently featured in the GV promo film, and he's heard on some of the tapes. It's just like he described in the article, he was involved with a lot of the activities as he was doing his piece, and to him, he became more than a reporter getting the story.
What he hints at was something Michael Vosse described later, and clarified. Jules was the one who was barred from attending the recording sessions at some point, and it was Vosse who blocked him, with the excuse given that it was Jules' girlfriend giving off negative vibes. That, according to Vosse and reading between the lines, was more of a red herring and an excuse. Jules' personality began to grate on the circle of friends, not the least of which was Brian himself, and they just got tired of his attitude and wanted him out. I know it's only one snapshot in time, but some of that can be heard on the old bootleg track called "Smile Era Party" where Jules decides to start a game called Lifeboat and it has a weird, negative tone to the whole thing that brings the whole "skit" down.
Again, his observations and reporting of the majority of events he witnessed is actually accurate and detailed, confirmed by others there (and there were not many others there). And credit to Jules, considering he basically got dumped from the inner circle which Vosse confirmed was more to do with him rubbing people the wrong way and not as much to do with his girlfriend's vibes, he still produced an article which ultimately helped boost the legend around Brian and Smile during that time. He could have made it a slam piece on Brian and the others considering they shut him out at some point in time and he was cut off to the point of being barred from the studio. But he didn't.
Emily:
Quote from: guitarfool2002 on January 08, 2016, 11:22:40 AM
What I will clarify is that Jules' article could have had a much more pointed personal bias, or even a grudge against Brian Wilson, but to his credit as a journalist and writer he didn't make that a part of his account. For the most part, especially the firsthand details about the studio sessions, events like the dinner party and listening sessions, and other events, Jules' account is accurate and lines up with what other participants saw and described. And it's also backed up by the audio proof we got through the years with the sessions.
I say he could have added more of a negative tone than he did because Jules was for a time in the inner circle with Brian. He's in the airport photo, he's prominently featured in the GV promo film, and he's heard on some of the tapes. It's just like he described in the article, he was involved with a lot of the activities as he was doing his piece, and to him, he became more than a reporter getting the story.
What he hints at was something Michael Vosse described later, and clarified. Jules was the one who was barred from attending the recording sessions at some point, and it was Vosse who blocked him, with the excuse given that it was Jules' girlfriend giving off negative vibes. That, according to Vosse and reading between the lines, was more of a red herring and an excuse. Jules' personality began to grate on the circle of friends, not the least of which was Brian himself, and they just got tired of his attitude and wanted him out. I know it's only one snapshot in time, but some of that can be heard on the old bootleg track called "Smile Era Party" where Jules decides to start a game called Lifeboat and it has a weird, negative tone to the whole thing that brings the whole "skit" down.
Again, his observations and reporting of the majority of events he witnessed is actually accurate and detailed, confirmed by others there (and there were not many others there). And credit to Jules, considering he basically got dumped from the inner circle which Vosse confirmed was more to do with him rubbing people the wrong way and not as much to do with his girlfriend's vibes, he still produced an article which ultimately helped boost the legend around Brian and Smile during that time. He could have made it a slam piece on Brian and the others considering they shut him out at some point in time and he was cut off to the point of being barred from the studio. But he didn't.
Thanks. Good job cross-referencing to piece together a bit of what was happening socially.
Bicyclerider:
Quote from: filledeplage on January 07, 2016, 09:53:12 AM
Quote from: Micha on January 07, 2016, 08:31:00 AM
Quote from: Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard on January 06, 2016, 06:26:11 PM
The worst lyrics on the album are Wind Chimes,
The best and credible sources, for me, are those who are "primary" sources; The Beach Boys themselves, not anyone else. I want to hear what Brian, Dennis, Carl, Al, Mike and Bruce have to say about their sessions. (And, Dennis and Carl from whatever interviews are still available.) I like those best from the late 1960's and 70's where the band was "closer in time" to how things went down.
Everyone else is a "secondary" source.
Don't agree with this as Vosse, Anderle and Siegel were there throughout the project and its' unravelling and were privy to many interactions with Brian that the other Beach Boys were not present for, spent more time with Brian than any of the other Beach Boys - besides being sounding boards for Brian - he likely would share thoughts with them that he might not with the others. They are primary sources as much or more than say Al and Bruce who just showed up for vocal sessions when called.
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