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Author Topic: Mike and Bruce Tour 2016  (Read 134306 times)
Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #250 on: May 05, 2016, 03:22:57 PM »

...you seem to think Brian is incapable of doing anything himself.

And I'd say that's putting words in my mouth that are untrue. You have no idea what I think about Brian Wilson.
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« Reply #251 on: May 05, 2016, 03:25:00 PM »

Right... Don't backtrack or slither away from trashing BW as usual. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #252 on: May 05, 2016, 03:30:26 PM »

...you seem to think Brian is incapable of doing anything himself.

And I'd say that's putting words in my mouth that are untrue. You have no idea what I think about Brian Wilson.

To be fair, while none of us knows the entirety of what each other thinks about anything to do with the BBs, if you post long writings including numerous characterizations and opinions and observations (and so on) about Brian, which you most certainly have, then it doesn't stand to reason that therefore everyone reading these comments has "no idea" what you think about Brian.

Your posts (as do most of everyone's posts about Brian) provide a pretty good insight into what you think about Brian. Not the entirety, but a pretty good insight.
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« Reply #253 on: May 05, 2016, 03:34:03 PM »

Brian is doing what he wants....
So are M&B. What's the problem?
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« Reply #254 on: May 05, 2016, 03:37:12 PM »

Brian is doing what he wants....
So are M&B. What's the problem?

I think the difference is that nobody is contending that Mike is being made to do things (e.g. tour) that he doesn't want to.

Nobody has ever criticized Mike because he isn't doing exactly what he wants to do. Ironically, the criticisms often involve the exact opposite, that he most certainly is doing *precisely* what he wants.
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« Reply #255 on: May 05, 2016, 03:40:27 PM »

...you seem to think Brian is incapable of doing anything himself.

And I'd say that's putting words in my mouth that are untrue. You have no idea what I think about Brian Wilson.

All anybody can go by is what you've posted here, so if you meant anything different, we would ike to hear it.
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« Reply #256 on: May 05, 2016, 03:41:15 PM »

...you seem to think Brian is incapable of doing anything himself.

And I'd say that's putting words in my mouth that are untrue. You have no idea what I think about Brian Wilson.

To be fair, while none of us knows the entirety of what each other thinks about anything to do with the BBs, if you post long writings including numerous characterizations and opinions and observations (and so on) about Brian, which you most certainly have, then it doesn't stand to reason that therefore everyone reading these comments has "no idea" what you think about Brian.

Your posts (as do most of everyone's posts about Brian) provide a pretty good insight into what you think about Brian. Not the entirety, but a pretty good insight.

Exactly.
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #257 on: May 05, 2016, 03:44:12 PM »

...you seem to think Brian is incapable of doing anything himself.

And I'd say that's putting words in my mouth that are untrue. You have no idea what I think about Brian Wilson.

All anybody can go by is what you've posted here, so if you meant anything different, we would ike to hear it.

Where or when have I posted that Brian is incapable of doing anything himself?
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« Reply #258 on: May 05, 2016, 03:45:50 PM »

...you seem to think Brian is incapable of doing anything himself.

And I'd say that's putting words in my mouth that are untrue. You have no idea what I think about Brian Wilson.

Gee. So saying that Brian is coached for interviews (what Billy said at the time, basically calling Brian Wilson a puppet), that he didn't write the excerpt to his book (of which you have no idea what parts of the book Brian has written). That he can say or do anything he wants because he is mentally ill. Yeah, we have no idea what you think about Brian Wilson.

Funny that you get pissed off at someone for making an obvious assumption about your opinion on Brian right after you base a ridiculous opinion about Brian on an assumption.
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« Reply #259 on: May 05, 2016, 04:01:53 PM »

...you seem to think Brian is incapable of doing anything himself.

And I'd say that's putting words in my mouth that are untrue. You have no idea what I think about Brian Wilson.

Gee. So saying that Brian is coached for interviews (what Billy said at the time, basically calling Brian Wilson a puppet), that he didn't write the excerpt to his book (of which you have no idea what parts of the book Brian has written). That he can say or do anything he wants because he is mentally ill. Yeah, we have no idea what you think about Brian Wilson.

Funny that you get pissed off at someone for making an obvious assumption about your opinion on Brian right after you base a ridiculous opinion about Brian on an assumption.

Gotta love the selective outrage.
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« Reply #260 on: May 05, 2016, 04:58:18 PM »

...you seem to think Brian is incapable of doing anything himself.

And I'd say that's putting words in my mouth that are untrue. You have no idea what I think about Brian Wilson.

All anybody can go by is what you've posted here, so if you meant anything different, we would ike to hear it.

Where or when have I posted that Brian is incapable of doing anything himself?

A better question would be , 'when haven't you'? I mean, my God, you think he doesn't even know his own solo songs.  You can never resist getting some kind of dig (passive aggressive or otherwise) against Brian. I mean, I get it...Mike's your favorite Beach Boy.  No problem there.  Doesn't mean you have to attempt to tear down Brian to prop your guy up. What really gets me though is for all the complaining some people do about OSD and Smile Brian when they go off on Mike (and when it gets to the band members, I do think that is crossing a line), you're doing the same thing with Brian, and this shtick is just as old.
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« Reply #261 on: May 05, 2016, 05:49:10 PM »

The last three pages have been brutally off topic. Are there any moderators on this board?
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« Reply #262 on: May 05, 2016, 05:50:07 PM »

Uh yes, I am one.
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« Reply #263 on: May 05, 2016, 06:05:35 PM »

Uh yes, I am one.

So, you feel the last three pages have discussed the M&B Tour 2016 and hasn't been an embarrassing pissing match?
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« Reply #264 on: May 05, 2016, 06:07:59 PM »

Uh yes, I am one.

So, you feel the last three pages have discussed the M&B Tour 2016 and hasn't been an embarrassing pissing match?

Holy crap. Someone who very much likes the Mike and Bruce 2016 tour asked a question about the nostalgic songs performed at Mike and Bruce concerts...the subsequent conversation was primarily about the Mike and Bruce tour. It only became brutally off topic when Sheriff John Stone had yet another temper tantrum about Brian Wilson.
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« Reply #265 on: May 05, 2016, 06:10:57 PM »

I think Brian's band highly respects the spiritual beauty of the music, which is probably why they don't let a cheerleader onto the stage to dance and play an instrument she doesn't know how to play. Yes, it's merely 'Barbara Ann' and they're having 'fun', but it's a cheesy nostalgia trip, plain and simple. The songs Brian and his band plays are nostalgic, but they seem to treat those songs like the art they are. 'Little Deuce Coupe' could be considered just another 60s car song...But Frank Zappa saw further into it and was enamored by the chord progression/structure in that song. Similarly, Brian-centric fans seem to be more engaged with the spiritual and artistic foundation of The Beach Boys' songs...which is why we are a bit more critical when we see cheerleaders flood the front of the crowd during a 'Beach Boys' concert.

A nostalgia trip? That would be milking an album - again - that is a half century old. A nostalgia trip? That would be asking ex-Beach Boy Al Jardine to join in the nostalgia trip, not to sing the handful of tracks he sang on a recent album, but to cover a few surf & turf classics! A nostalgia trip? How about asking another ex-Beach Boy, Brian's good friend What's His Name, to sing a couple songs from another 42 year-old Beach Boys' album.

And, speaking of recent albums...Brian's been a solo performer a lot longer than he's been a Beach Boy, almost thirty years now. Yet he almost completely ignores his solo material. Maybe he doesn't like his solo songs. Or, maybe he doesn't know his solo songs; most people don't.

A question for you, rab2591. What does Brian Wilson have in common with that cheerleader on stage with an instrument she doesn't know what to do with?

And, speaking of cheerleaders and plants and trees on stage. Hey, that's just old Mike Love trying to give the audience a little added touch. Now Brian, well, he has to watch his bottom line. I mean, it's not enough he gets paid for Beach Boys' shows, he has an 80 gig tour of his own! Talk about the goose who laid the golden egg... Now, rab2591, do you think 74 year-old Brian really - REALLY! - wants to be playing 80 gig tours with his mental health issues, his penchant for stage fright, his aching back, and a young family at home? But, I'm glad he's making people happy; I know that is important to him.

And then there's this talk about Mike copying Brian's shows and "upping his game". Don't forget that Mike & Bruce were playing "Wild Honey" live a few years ago before old Blondie Chaplin returned with his guest appearances. Roll over John Cowsill!!!!!


Yeah, that's just old myKe luHv trying to give the audience a little added touch, huh? You mean like the turbans, the gold sequined jacket, the skinned tight, revealing leotards, the jewelry, and the the huge feather in the hat? Sorry, but The Royal King of All Tackiness isn't at all entertaining or necessary except to bring unwarranted attention to himself.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #266 on: May 05, 2016, 06:17:36 PM »

Uh yes, I am one.

So, you feel the last three pages have discussed the M&B Tour 2016 and hasn't been an embarrassing pissing match?

Holy crap. Someone who very much likes the Mike and Bruce 2016 tour asked a question about the nostalgic songs performed at Mike and Bruce concerts...the subsequent conversation was primarily about the Mike and Bruce tour. It only became brutally off topic when Sheriff John Stone had yet another temper tantrum about Brian Wilson.

That is correct, and to answer the question, yes it is being looked at. That started  when I responded to it.
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« Reply #267 on: May 05, 2016, 06:19:57 PM »

Uh yes, I am one.

So, you feel the last three pages have discussed the M&B Tour 2016 and hasn't been an embarrassing pissing match?

Holy crap. Someone who very much likes the Mike and Bruce 2016 tour asked a question about the nostalgic songs performed at Mike and Bruce concerts...the subsequent conversation was primarily about the Mike and Bruce tour. It only became brutally off topic when Sheriff John Stone had yet another temper tantrum about Brian Wilson.

That is correct, and to answer the question, yes it is being looked at. That started  when I responded to it.

Thanks.
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« Reply #268 on: May 05, 2016, 06:23:36 PM »

It's amazing how a man nicknamed Mr. Positivity can inspire so much negativity just by mentioning his name.
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« Reply #269 on: May 05, 2016, 06:44:58 PM »

...you seem to think Brian is incapable of doing anything himself.

And I'd say that's putting words in my mouth that are untrue. You have no idea what I think about Brian Wilson.

All anybody can go by is what you've posted here, so if you meant anything different, we would ike to hear it.

Where or when have I posted that Brian is incapable of doing anything himself?

A better question would be , 'when haven't you'? I mean, my God, you think he doesn't even know his own solo songs.  You can never resist getting some kind of dig (passive aggressive or otherwise) against Brian. I mean, I get it...Mike's your favorite Beach Boy.  No problem there.  Doesn't mean you have to attempt to tear down Brian to prop your guy up. What really gets me though is for all the complaining some people do about OSD and Smile Brian when they go off on Mike (and when it gets to the band members, I do think that is crossing a line), you're doing the same thing with Brian, and this shtick is just as old.

Again, almost everything you posted ^ is incorrect. You did say something correct which I will address.

First, if you can't believe what I am about to post, then I suggest you move on to another thread now, because you're not going to "get it". Honestly, I was hoping you and the other moderators would "get it" by now and make changes. I'm fast giving up hope.

Mike Love is not my "favorite" Beach Boy. I don't even like Mike Love. I don't have a "favorite" Beach Boy. My fanboy days are long gone. I've spent too long, decades actually, living and dying by the actions of the Beach Boys. Due to things said and done by the individual Beach Boys themselves, in addition to experiencing things, important things, in my own life, I don't spend much time thinking about or advocating for...Beach Boys. I certainly wish them good health and happiness, they certainly provided and continue to provide happiness to me. But, again, I don't worry too much anymore about 70 year-old multi-millionaire rock stars. I have my own life to worry about.

But, for some strange reason, this board is, and fast approaching WAS, important to me. It also has provided me with much happiness. But, things changed over the last few years. A lot of good posters left, for a variety of reasons, and it's not necessary in this post to discuss why. However, more concerning are the posters who have come along. There are several relatively new posters who came on this board who think it is OK, necessary, fun, fulfilling, vengeful, whatever, to vilify, hate, make fun of Mike Love. And, forget Mike Love. I don't care about Mike Love. It's a Beach Boy and his band who are the targets. And, it's not just Mike's voice or music that gets attacked, it's EVERYTHING about him - his physical appearance, his relationship with his family members, his spiritual pursuits, his band, well, just about EVERYTHING is fair game when it comes to Mike Love.

There have been numerous posts and threads from posters who object to this hate and ridicule of a Beach Boy. Yes, Mike Love can act like an asshole, but he's our asshole. Why can't "it" just be accepted and move on. But, no, thread after thread is either started or turns into a Mike Love bash fest. And, frankly, it's sickening and causing posters, good knowledgeable posters to just shake their head in disgust. I have to think many of them get so turned off that they just leave. And, I hate to see that happening.

I have read many posters try to change this hate, personal attacks, name-calling, etc. on Mike Love through multiple posts and threads. Posters have implored the moderators to, well, moderate. I'm not talking about banning, but instead deleted posts, deleted comments, and deleted or locked threads. This subject came up months ago in a rather long and heated thread/debate, and the moderators response was - oh, well, just ignore it.

I don't think that is a satisfactory response or solution to the problem. It has to come from the posters spreading the hate and attacking of a Beach Boy and his band. I tried calling out various posters and moderators with little success. Actually, instead of moderators considering my suggestions, I was attacked and told that if I don't like it, blah, blah, blah. Very disappointing but not unexpected.

So, I then tried, and am still trying to make the posters and moderators see the hypocrisy that is going on. If somebody attacks Mike Love, post after post, thread after thread, oh, it's OK. He deserves it. Let's see how many ways -subtle or obvious - we can insert the knife, and then let the others come on to twist it. Fun isn't it? Not really. And if somebody objects to, well, hey, take the moderators' advice...just ignore it. But...but...but...if God forbid, somebody says something derogatory about Brian Wilson or his physical appearance or his mental illness or his family, well, we can't have that. And, you know what? We shouldn't have that. But it goes both ways. If it's NOT OK to be critical of Brian Wilson for a variety of reasons, and there's certainly a lot of material there, then why is it OK to take continuous shots at Mike Love. Because one DESERVES hate and the other one doesn't? That seems to be the prevailing attitude on this board.

So, sports fans, I can only repeat yet again that I don't like Mike Love and dislike Brian Wilson. I don't dislike anybody. Occasionally they will say or do something that pisses me off, but not enough to HATE them. Seriously, when it comes to this crap, I'm becoming comfortably numb. It isn't easy for me to make the comments I've been making about Brian. I've spent more time thinking and caring about Brian Wilson than many of my friends and family members. I sincerely hoped that people would see the hypocrisy, that it's not OK to say certain things about somebody, in this case a Beach Boy, but then in turn show outrage (in this case at me) for saying the same things about another Beach Boys.

By now people either checked out minutes ago or think I still support Mike Love, or could care less either way. I did it, or am doing it to promote change, change for the board. Selfishly, I'd like to stop having to try to make people see the double standard that is prevalent. I don't like these posts I feel that I have to make. I hope that people can see what's happening to this board and change THEIR ways, their attitude about attacking a Beach Boy. To quote old Murry, this attitude has caused the board to go downhill! Downhill! Obviously the "ignoring" suggestion isn't working, nor is what I am trying to do. But, I tried. I tried.
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« Reply #270 on: May 05, 2016, 06:48:19 PM »

It's amazing how a man nicknamed Mr. Positivity can inspire so much negativity just by mentioning his name.

It's not negativity at all. He coined that name and he turned out to be one bitter, unappreciative codger who will never wrap his hands around how stinking lucky he really was in life.
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« Reply #271 on: May 05, 2016, 07:18:02 PM »

Sheriff, if I'm reading your post correctly, you're saying that all of your posts dripping with passive aggressive vitriol about Brian are done to show people a double standard? So you come to the most popular Beach Boys forum and make troll posts about Brian just to prove a point about Mike?

For months you mocked No Pier Pressure.
I've read your negative outlooks on BWPS that you've shared ad nauseam on this board for years.
You claim Brian is coached for interviews.
You claim that Brian didn't write the recent excerpt for his book (he may not have, but you don't at all know that).
You talk about his mental illness like it's nothing.
So much in your post history is negativity toward Melinda and Brian.

Yet you supposedly love Brian and care about him? You hope others can change their ways about attacking a Beach Boy!?

If you see Mike being treated unfairly, then make rational arguments to shut people up! My mind has been changed in the past about Mike because people did the adult thing and took the time to explain their side. Hell, Mike did an interview last year that helped me understand him a bit better - because he took the time to open up and explain himself. I don't understand how continuously berating Brian and his career is any way teaching people a lesson about how to treat Mike. If anything your posts have helped fuel the fire that has consumed this place in the last few years.
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« Reply #272 on: May 05, 2016, 07:26:44 PM »

If you look back to about 2000 and look at the setlist Mike was playing....it looked like a classic Mike setlist.  What he was stereotypically associated with. That started to change over time especially when Scott took over. What exactly made Mike change I have always wondered? I can't imagine Mike circa 1999 ever fathoming performing Til I Die. Any thoughts?
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« Reply #273 on: May 05, 2016, 07:41:27 PM »

Sheriff, if I'm reading your post correctly, you're saying that all of your posts dripping with passive aggressive vitriol about Brian are done to show people a double standard? So you come to the most popular Beach Boys forum and make troll posts about Brian just to prove a point about Mike?

For months you mocked No Pier Pressure.
I've read your negative outlooks on BWPS that you've shared ad nauseam on this board for years.
You claim Brian is coached for interviews.
You claim that Brian didn't write the recent excerpt for his book (he may not have, but you don't at all know that).
You talk about his mental illness like it's nothing.
So much in your post history is negativity toward Melinda and Brian.

Yet you supposedly love Brian and care about him? You hope others can change their ways about attacking a Beach Boy!?

If you see Mike being treated unfairly, then make rational arguments to shut people up! My mind has been changed in the past about Mike because people did the adult thing and took the time to explain their side. Hell, Mike did an interview last year that helped me understand him a bit better - because he took the time to open up and explain himself. I don't understand how continuously berating Brian and his career is any way teaching people a lesson about how to treat Mike. If anything your posts have helped fuel the fire that has consumed this place in the last few years.

I was going to post a long response, but you touched on pretty much every post I was going to make.

I will add the following...

The things about BWPS and NPP are just opinions, and I cannot knock somebody for them (even though I disagree).  The rest, I agree with completely.  And for the record, I happen to be respect Mike artistically, and  yes the constant personal bashing of Mike does get old, and yes, I have spoken to that previously, when it's gone from justified criticism to attacking just for the sake of doing so. So why attack Brian in order to prove that point?
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« Reply #274 on: May 05, 2016, 07:45:12 PM »

If you look back to about 2000 and look at the setlist Mike was playing....it looked like a classic Mike setlist.  What he was stereotypically associated with. That started to change over time especially when Scott took over. What exactly made Mike change I have always wondered? I can't imagine Mike circa 1999 ever fathoming performing Til I Die. Any thoughts?

I think the evolution of Brian's band, and the subsequent accolades that Brian received probably gave Mike a kick in the pants to try and up his own game. As I see it, it seems to be largely out of a competitive streak with (or shall I unfortunately say, against) Brian. Like, if Brian had not decided to become a touring artist in 1999, and it was just M&B out there playing BB songs, perhaps they'd have upped their game over the years, but I'm not sure M&B would have come as far as they have now.

In general, I'm all for competition if it means that better art results (ie. Rubber Soul leading to Pet Sounds, etc)... except that these guys are supposed to be on the same "team". I cannot help but think that Mike truly doesn't like to see Brian get accolades upon accolades, awards after awards - that it actually deeply bugs him, because he personally hasn't seen that kind of public affection directed solely at himself in anywhere near the same manner. I can understand that, it's a human thing to feel that way, but Mike's shows adding deeper cuts and improving from their earlier ones does feel just a little too convenient.

For me, personally, it's easier to appreciate someone's art if it doesn't feel like it's coming from a vengeful or jealous place. Hence, for example, some films by M. Night Shyamalan (the critic character in Lady in the Water), and some later songs by Smashing Pumpkins (lyrics like "you know I'm not dead" and "If I were dead, would my records sell") seem to come from an "I'll show you" type of place in the artist's heart. Or at least that's how it feels to me... and it diminishes the end product in my eyes. This is not something I feel is exclusive to Mike. I'm trying to point out that streak that I see in a number of artists across different media.  If another BB member repeatedly did that kind of thing too, I'd point it out as well because it would bug me just as much.

I'm sure lots of art is motivated by jealousy or revenge to some degree... but it's best when that aspect of things is hidden from the public; the seams tend to show way more with Mike, largely because he seemingly compulsively can't stop passive-aggressively berating Brian in interviews, right around the time he starts upping his game in his live set.
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