Brian Wilson 2016 Tour Thread (Pet Sounds 50th Anniversary Tour)

[drbeachboy]

Also, no offense to any other boards, but I don't think a few cryptic negative comments on the BB Britain board are a big deal. That board gets *very little* traffic, and even less *substantive* traffic. (It's circa 1997 website design/format probably doesn't help things either; and I say that genuinely as a constructive criticism).

I don't know if I should feel flattered by the attention, but the most active recent discussion on that board was back in November/December when Andrew (two Andrews, apparently) and several other former members of this forum who were banned decided to unload and turn it into a place to bash and criticize me for what they thought I did or didn't do here. That in itself was enough, but I also noticed the moderator apparently felt that was on topic enough to remain active, despite being everything but "It's all about the music", and even got in a few digs of their own. If that's the kind of board which encourages that kind of thing, then has members posting about comments made here about *there*, it becomes playground level kids' stuff. "I'm taking my ball and going home!" level dialogue. Nothing about the music. Just taking personal shots.

Then it became known that threads such as that on BBB were part of a deliberate effort to trash me and what I was supposed to have done or not done as a moderator of this board. Inspire others to join their calls for me to either step down or be 'fired', perhaps? In some cases it almost worked. Again this effort was involving members here who set out to discredit and bash me among others here, not only in light of the facts but again having nothing to do with coming to this forum or any other music community to talk about music, which is a regular charge for members to do more of. Yet that bashing fest stands as one of the most if not the most active thread on that community in months, if not all year. Do I get an end-of-the-year award for that distinction?  

It is unfortunate for the fans who actually do go there and here and anywhere else to post about the music, about shows, about anything related to the purpose of these forums. Because there are legitimately good, even great fans who like to hang out and talk.

It is a shame the real and honest-to-goodness fans have to unknowingly get pushed aside by the multiple layers that exist on these forums beyond fans coming here to read and talk to each other. It's not their fault there are others who are using these forums to purposely do things like the "Bash Guitarfool" type discussions at the end of last year and travel deep down into layers beyond what most people might think exist underneath all of this on the surface.

You really shouldn't be surprised by this at all. You had this board in such a state that some folks felt threatened to say what was on their mind in here. Folks will go where they have a voice. You had a hand in banning from some pretty popular posters in here, it was bound to over flow onto other boards when the ban-hammer here was hovering so close to them. You have become the Love You of Smiley Smile. They either love you or hate you, no in between.

[Emily]

On fainting - it could well have been a fainting spell. I came across  the aftermath of a motorcycle accident a few weeks ago and someone pointed out the body under a blanket about 50 feet from me. I was standing there, then felt dizzy, then I woke up sitting on the ground where I was standing with a few people asking me if I was OK. Apparently, to them, it looked like I'd just suddenly sat down on the sidewalk. But I wasn't conscious of doing it.

On reviews/comments - I've no problem with a fair negative review or comment - people's taste is their own. But the comments about age and retiring (not only about BW but other touring older people) bother me a bit. Rock hasn't been just for the young since the first generation of rock fans stopped being young. And I think older artists (or people in any field) should keep working as long as they want and as long as others are interested. For musicians, that would be as long as people buy tickets.

Some personal comments about Brian Wilson's well-being also bother me. Saying, "he seemed to have a bad night" is one thing. But saying, "he shouldn't be touring. He doesn't seem like he wants to be there" is implying something really bad about everyone who works with him and, without evidence, I don't think that's fair.

[Smilin Ed H]

I think if you don't know what Brian's like by now, you probably shouldn't be reviewing his shows.

[Jim V.]

I don't know if I should feel flattered by the attention, but the most active recent discussion on that board was back in November/December when Andrew (two Andrews, apparently) and several other former members of this forum who were banned decided to unload and turn it into a place to bash and criticize me for what they thought I did or didn't do here. That in itself was enough, but I also noticed the moderator apparently felt that was on topic enough to remain active, despite being everything but "It's all about the music", and even got in a few digs of their own. If that's the kind of board which encourages that kind of thing, then has members posting about comments made here about *there*, it becomes playground level kids' stuff. "I'm taking my ball and going home!" level dialogue. Nothing about the music. Just taking personal shots.

Then it became known that threads such as that on BBB were part of a deliberate effort to trash me and what I was supposed to have done or not done as a moderator of this board. Inspire others to join their calls for me to either step down or be 'fired', perhaps? In some cases it almost worked. Again this effort was involving members here who set out to discredit and bash me among others here, not only in light of the facts but again having nothing to do with coming to this forum or any other music community to talk about music, which is a regular charge for members to do more of. Yet that bashing fest stands as one of the most if not the most active thread on that community in months, if not all year. Do I get an end-of-the-year award for that distinction?  

It is unfortunate for the fans who actually do go there and here and anywhere else to post about the music, about shows, about anything related to the purpose of these forums. Because there are legitimately good, even great fans who like to hang out and talk.

It is a shame the real and honest-to-goodness fans have to unknowingly get pushed aside by the multiple layers that exist on these forums beyond fans coming here to read and talk to each other. It's not their fault there are others who are using these forums to purposely do things like the "Bash Guitarfool" type discussions at the end of last year and travel deep down into layers beyond what most people might think exist underneath all of this on the surface.

Please guitarfool, get off the freakin' cross already. I would probably say as far as The Beach Boys goes, I probably agree with you at least 75 percent of the time, but your propensity to take everything as an insult and the way you take every comment that may offer constructive criticism as something resembling a Judas or Brutus is just becoming a bit much.

[drbeachboy]

On fainting - it could well have been a fainting spell. I came across  the aftermath of a motorcycle accident a few weeks ago and someone pointed out the body under a blanket about 50 feet from me. I was standing there, then felt dizzy, then I woke up sitting on the ground where I was standing with a few people asking me if I was OK. Apparently, to them, it looked like I'd just suddenly sat down on the sidewalk. But I wasn't conscious of doing it.

On reviews/comments - I've no problem with a fair negative review or comment - people's taste is their own. But the comments about age and retiring (not only about BW but other touring older people) bother me a bit. Rock hasn't been just for the young since the first generation of rock fans stopped being young. And I think older artists (or people in any field) should keep working as long as they want and as long as others are interested. For musicians, that would be as long as people buy tickets.

Some personal comments about Brian Wilson's well-being also bother me. Saying, "he seemed to have a bad night" is one thing. But saying, "he shouldn't be touring. He doesn't seem like he wants to be there" is implying something really bad about everyone who works with him and, without evidence, I don't think that's fair.

I don't know how many Brian shows that you have attended, but those comments happen at every show. At intermissions I usually talk to folks who are out smoking or whatever, and newer fans will always asked those questions.

[Emily]

On fainting - it could well have been a fainting spell. I came across  the aftermath of a motorcycle accident a few weeks ago and someone pointed out the body under a blanket about 50 feet from me. I was standing there, then felt dizzy, then I woke up sitting on the ground where I was standing with a few people asking me if I was OK. Apparently, to them, it looked like I'd just suddenly sat down on the sidewalk. But I wasn't conscious of doing it.

On reviews/comments - I've no problem with a fair negative review or comment - people's taste is their own. But the comments about age and retiring (not only about BW but other touring older people) bother me a bit. Rock hasn't been just for the young since the first generation of rock fans stopped being young. And I think older artists (or people in any field) should keep working as long as they want and as long as others are interested. For musicians, that would be as long as people buy tickets.

Some personal comments about Brian Wilson's well-being also bother me. Saying, "he seemed to have a bad night" is one thing. But saying, "he shouldn't be touring. He doesn't seem like he wants to be there" is implying something really bad about everyone who works with him and, without evidence, I don't think that's fair.

I don't know how many Brian shows that you have attended, but those comments happen at every show. At intermissions I usually talk to folks who are out smoking or whatever, and newer fans will always asked those questions.

Unfortunately for me, I've attended one. 

[guitarfool2002]

I don't know if I should feel flattered by the attention, but the most active recent discussion on that board was back in November/December when Andrew (two Andrews, apparently) and several other former members of this forum who were banned decided to unload and turn it into a place to bash and criticize me for what they thought I did or didn't do here. That in itself was enough, but I also noticed the moderator apparently felt that was on topic enough to remain active, despite being everything but "It's all about the music", and even got in a few digs of their own. If that's the kind of board which encourages that kind of thing, then has members posting about comments made here about *there*, it becomes playground level kids' stuff. "I'm taking my ball and going home!" level dialogue. Nothing about the music. Just taking personal shots.

Then it became known that threads such as that on BBB were part of a deliberate effort to trash me and what I was supposed to have done or not done as a moderator of this board. Inspire others to join their calls for me to either step down or be 'fired', perhaps? In some cases it almost worked. Again this effort was involving members here who set out to discredit and bash me among others here, not only in light of the facts but again having nothing to do with coming to this forum or any other music community to talk about music, which is a regular charge for members to do more of. Yet that bashing fest stands as one of the most if not the most active thread on that community in months, if not all year. Do I get an end-of-the-year award for that distinction?  

It is unfortunate for the fans who actually do go there and here and anywhere else to post about the music, about shows, about anything related to the purpose of these forums. Because there are legitimately good, even great fans who like to hang out and talk.

It is a shame the real and honest-to-goodness fans have to unknowingly get pushed aside by the multiple layers that exist on these forums beyond fans coming here to read and talk to each other. It's not their fault there are others who are using these forums to purposely do things like the "Bash Guitarfool" type discussions at the end of last year and travel deep down into layers beyond what most people might think exist underneath all of this on the surface.

Please guitarfool, get off the freakin' cross already. I would probably say as far as The Beach Boys goes, I probably agree with you at least 75 percent of the time, but your propensity to take everything as an insult and the way you take every comment that may offer constructive criticism as something resembling a Judas or Brutus is just becoming a bit much.

Constructive criticism is fine. For months I read and answered messages sent to me that were constructive and critical, but when those messages from some people started to turn into rants full of profanity and the sense that any reply i offered, including the suggestion to simply ignore certain things before a script to allow that digitally was set up, was being ignored. If i didn't give the answer these people must have been seeking, nothing else was accepted and I became the asshole for not doing what others wanted.

No cross, man. How would you feel upon finding out there were board members who not only organized such a thing against you, but didn't have the guts to say it personally so they took it onto another forum and social media to trash YOUR name? Then to find out it was going on at a forum you don't even visit regularly, visit that forum, and find your name and actions you didn't even do being bashed by any number of people, led by exactly the people who you'd find out later had a hand in setting this up deliberately?

Then...to have it filter on to this board, where misunderstandings of how things are done, how moderators do not work alone or act alone, to have all moderators and the board administrator back that up, and still have people going around with their various plans and plots to discredit YOU to the point where you're either forced to step down or would quit because the heat got too hot to take?

The best thing about the truth, Jim, is it's easy to spot the lies when you know it. If you were moderating this board, and not only saw board members trashing you and making stuff up when the reality is all mods are equally involved in bans and other decisions, but also found out it was being deliberately planned and organized by several board members who launched it as almost a campaign against you...I guess that would be OK to have people lying, bashing you on multiple forums, enlisting others to do the same thing, and then having people say "get off the cross"?

Right. If being a moderator involves that, i don't know how many good posters here would want any parts of it. Unless having people launch personal attack campaigns against you is part of the agreement when signing up.

[drbeachboy]

I don't know if I should feel flattered by the attention, but the most active recent discussion on that board was back in November/December when Andrew (two Andrews, apparently) and several other former members of this forum who were banned decided to unload and turn it into a place to bash and criticize me for what they thought I did or didn't do here. That in itself was enough, but I also noticed the moderator apparently felt that was on topic enough to remain active, despite being everything but "It's all about the music", and even got in a few digs of their own. If that's the kind of board which encourages that kind of thing, then has members posting about comments made here about *there*, it becomes playground level kids' stuff. "I'm taking my ball and going home!" level dialogue. Nothing about the music. Just taking personal shots.

Then it became known that threads such as that on BBB were part of a deliberate effort to trash me and what I was supposed to have done or not done as a moderator of this board. Inspire others to join their calls for me to either step down or be 'fired', perhaps? In some cases it almost worked. Again this effort was involving members here who set out to discredit and bash me among others here, not only in light of the facts but again having nothing to do with coming to this forum or any other music community to talk about music, which is a regular charge for members to do more of. Yet that bashing fest stands as one of the most if not the most active thread on that community in months, if not all year. Do I get an end-of-the-year award for that distinction? 

It is unfortunate for the fans who actually do go there and here and anywhere else to post about the music, about shows, about anything related to the purpose of these forums. Because there are legitimately good, even great fans who like to hang out and talk.

It is a shame the real and honest-to-goodness fans have to unknowingly get pushed aside by the multiple layers that exist on these forums beyond fans coming here to read and talk to each other. It's not their fault there are others who are using these forums to purposely do things like the "Bash Guitarfool" type discussions at the end of last year and travel deep down into layers beyond what most people might think exist underneath all of this on the surface.

Please guitarfool, get off the freakin' cross already. I would probably say as far as The Beach Boys goes, I probably agree with you at least 75 percent of the time, but your propensity to take everything as an insult and the way you take every comment that may offer constructive criticism as something resembling a Judas or Brutus is just becoming a bit much.

Constructive criticism is fine. For months I read and answered messages sent to me that were constructive and critical, but when those messages from some people started to turn into rants full of profanity and the sense that any reply i offered, including the suggestion to simply ignore certain things before a script to allow that digitally was set up, was being ignored. If i didn't give the answer these people must have been seeking, nothing else was accepted and I became the asshole for not doing what others wanted.

No cross, man. How would you feel upon finding out there were board members who not only organized such a thing against you, but didn't have the guts to say it personally so they took it onto another forum and social media to trash YOUR name? Then to find out it was going on at a forum you don't even visit regularly, visit that forum, and find your name and actions you didn't even do being bashed by any number of people, led by exactly the people who you'd find out later had a hand in setting this up deliberately?

Then...to have it filter on to this board, where misunderstandings of how things are done, how moderators do not work alone or act alone, to have all moderators and the board administrator back that up, and still have people going around with their various plans and plots to discredit YOU to the point where you're either forced to step down or would quit because the heat got too hot to take?

The best thing about the truth, Jim, is it's easy to spot the lies when you know it. If you were moderating this board, and not only saw board members trashing you and making stuff up when the reality is all mods are equally involved in bans and other decisions, but also found out it was being deliberately planned and organized by several board members who launched it as almost a campaign against you...I guess that would be OK to have people lying, bashing you on multiple forums, enlisting others to do the same thing, and then having people say "get off the cross"?

Right. If being a moderator involves that, i don't know how many good posters here would want any parts of it. Unless having people launch personal attack campaigns against you is part of the agreement when signing up.

If people are out to get you, why do you think that is? Did it just pop out of the mid-air or are you responsible for how you come off in here? Amazing too, that the banned members are also folks that had difference of opinions with you. Quite a few of the bannings come off looking like personal vendettas and some of those banned members believe that it is. That is the toughest part of moderating anything; being fair, but also getting involved and taking sides in the same discussions that you are moderating. That in itself is a tough balancing act, no doubt. Maybe we all need a do-over?

[HeyJude]

Regarding fainting, I certainly don't profess to be an expert and I'm guessing based on the point of view from the audience it would be hard to tell what exactly was going on even if one were a doctor. I'm guessing, and I emphasize it's a guess, is that it may have been near-fainting, perhaps what doctors call presyncope.

In any event, my main point was that it was exaggerated immediately after the show by people that weren't there. It quickly turned into a game of telephone and I remember on various boards seeing the incident characterized as Brian actually collapsing on stage, like he just pitched over and hit the floor already unconscious.

[guitarfool2002]

I don't know if I should feel flattered by the attention, but the most active recent discussion on that board was back in November/December when Andrew (two Andrews, apparently) and several other former members of this forum who were banned decided to unload and turn it into a place to bash and criticize me for what they thought I did or didn't do here. That in itself was enough, but I also noticed the moderator apparently felt that was on topic enough to remain active, despite being everything but "It's all about the music", and even got in a few digs of their own. If that's the kind of board which encourages that kind of thing, then has members posting about comments made here about *there*, it becomes playground level kids' stuff. "I'm taking my ball and going home!" level dialogue. Nothing about the music. Just taking personal shots.

Then it became known that threads such as that on BBB were part of a deliberate effort to trash me and what I was supposed to have done or not done as a moderator of this board. Inspire others to join their calls for me to either step down or be 'fired', perhaps? In some cases it almost worked. Again this effort was involving members here who set out to discredit and bash me among others here, not only in light of the facts but again having nothing to do with coming to this forum or any other music community to talk about music, which is a regular charge for members to do more of. Yet that bashing fest stands as one of the most if not the most active thread on that community in months, if not all year. Do I get an end-of-the-year award for that distinction? 

It is unfortunate for the fans who actually do go there and here and anywhere else to post about the music, about shows, about anything related to the purpose of these forums. Because there are legitimately good, even great fans who like to hang out and talk.

It is a shame the real and honest-to-goodness fans have to unknowingly get pushed aside by the multiple layers that exist on these forums beyond fans coming here to read and talk to each other. It's not their fault there are others who are using these forums to purposely do things like the "Bash Guitarfool" type discussions at the end of last year and travel deep down into layers beyond what most people might think exist underneath all of this on the surface.

Please guitarfool, get off the freakin' cross already. I would probably say as far as The Beach Boys goes, I probably agree with you at least 75 percent of the time, but your propensity to take everything as an insult and the way you take every comment that may offer constructive criticism as something resembling a Judas or Brutus is just becoming a bit much.

Constructive criticism is fine. For months I read and answered messages sent to me that were constructive and critical, but when those messages from some people started to turn into rants full of profanity and the sense that any reply i offered, including the suggestion to simply ignore certain things before a script to allow that digitally was set up, was being ignored. If i didn't give the answer these people must have been seeking, nothing else was accepted and I became the asshole for not doing what others wanted.

No cross, man. How would you feel upon finding out there were board members who not only organized such a thing against you, but didn't have the guts to say it personally so they took it onto another forum and social media to trash YOUR name? Then to find out it was going on at a forum you don't even visit regularly, visit that forum, and find your name and actions you didn't even do being bashed by any number of people, led by exactly the people who you'd find out later had a hand in setting this up deliberately?

Then...to have it filter on to this board, where misunderstandings of how things are done, how moderators do not work alone or act alone, to have all moderators and the board administrator back that up, and still have people going around with their various plans and plots to discredit YOU to the point where you're either forced to step down or would quit because the heat got too hot to take?

The best thing about the truth, Jim, is it's easy to spot the lies when you know it. If you were moderating this board, and not only saw board members trashing you and making stuff up when the reality is all mods are equally involved in bans and other decisions, but also found out it was being deliberately planned and organized by several board members who launched it as almost a campaign against you...I guess that would be OK to have people lying, bashing you on multiple forums, enlisting others to do the same thing, and then having people say "get off the cross"?

Right. If being a moderator involves that, i don't know how many good posters here would want any parts of it. Unless having people launch personal attack campaigns against you is part of the agreement when signing up.

If people are out to get you, why do you think that is? Did it just pop out of the mid-air or are you responsible for how you come off in here? Amazing too, that the banned members are also folks that had difference of opinions with you. Quite a few of the bannings come off looking like personal vendettas and some of those banned members believe that it is. That is the toughest part of moderating anything; being fair, but also getting involved and taking sides in the same discussions that you are moderating. That in itself is a tough balancing act, no doubt. Maybe we all need a do-over?

I know exactly why it is done and why it was done, Doctor. I also know the desired results. Unfortunately I don't think some of the people who not only bought into the campaigns and believed the lies, but also participated in them know what it's all about beneath the surface. That's the troubling part. There were a lot of people duped, I'm afraid. When all moderators and the board admin have - multiple times publicly - said exactly how things are and were done, yet the claims of something other than that truth are still being made and believed in order to discredit someone, that's not good. Propaganda tends to work that way, it's about promoting the lies as the truth, making people believe them, enlisting others to believe and join in the campaign, and get the results that are desired. The perspective is vastly different when you're the one targeted by propaganda.

[wantsomecorn]

Wow, this is getting pretty off-topic.

Perhaps a mod could come in and redirect the conversation back to this year's great tour?

[Shady]

Excited to hear about the London shows, they are always special

[guitarfool2002]

Wow, this is getting pretty off-topic.

Perhaps a mod could come in and redirect the conversation back to this year's great tour?

I'm looking forward to reading more comments from those who are seeing the shows this week, for sure! That doesn't mean other lingering issues can't be addressed if they come up, then people discuss, then it gets back on topic. Just like any conversation normally would do.    No one needs to police that.

[drbeachboy]

I don't know if I should feel flattered by the attention, but the most active recent discussion on that board was back in November/December when Andrew (two Andrews, apparently) and several other former members of this forum who were banned decided to unload and turn it into a place to bash and criticize me for what they thought I did or didn't do here. That in itself was enough, but I also noticed the moderator apparently felt that was on topic enough to remain active, despite being everything but "It's all about the music", and even got in a few digs of their own. If that's the kind of board which encourages that kind of thing, then has members posting about comments made here about *there*, it becomes playground level kids' stuff. "I'm taking my ball and going home!" level dialogue. Nothing about the music. Just taking personal shots.

Then it became known that threads such as that on BBB were part of a deliberate effort to trash me and what I was supposed to have done or not done as a moderator of this board. Inspire others to join their calls for me to either step down or be 'fired', perhaps? In some cases it almost worked. Again this effort was involving members here who set out to discredit and bash me among others here, not only in light of the facts but again having nothing to do with coming to this forum or any other music community to talk about music, which is a regular charge for members to do more of. Yet that bashing fest stands as one of the most if not the most active thread on that community in months, if not all year. Do I get an end-of-the-year award for that distinction?  

It is unfortunate for the fans who actually do go there and here and anywhere else to post about the music, about shows, about anything related to the purpose of these forums. Because there are legitimately good, even great fans who like to hang out and talk.

It is a shame the real and honest-to-goodness fans have to unknowingly get pushed aside by the multiple layers that exist on these forums beyond fans coming here to read and talk to each other. It's not their fault there are others who are using these forums to purposely do things like the "Bash Guitarfool" type discussions at the end of last year and travel deep down into layers beyond what most people might think exist underneath all of this on the surface.

Please guitarfool, get off the freakin' cross already. I would probably say as far as The Beach Boys goes, I probably agree with you at least 75 percent of the time, but your propensity to take everything as an insult and the way you take every comment that may offer constructive criticism as something resembling a Judas or Brutus is just becoming a bit much.

Constructive criticism is fine. For months I read and answered messages sent to me that were constructive and critical, but when those messages from some people started to turn into rants full of profanity and the sense that any reply i offered, including the suggestion to simply ignore certain things before a script to allow that digitally was set up, was being ignored. If i didn't give the answer these people must have been seeking, nothing else was accepted and I became the asshole for not doing what others wanted.

No cross, man. How would you feel upon finding out there were board members who not only organized such a thing against you, but didn't have the guts to say it personally so they took it onto another forum and social media to trash YOUR name? Then to find out it was going on at a forum you don't even visit regularly, visit that forum, and find your name and actions you didn't even do being bashed by any number of people, led by exactly the people who you'd find out later had a hand in setting this up deliberately?

Then...to have it filter on to this board, where misunderstandings of how things are done, how moderators do not work alone or act alone, to have all moderators and the board administrator back that up, and still have people going around with their various plans and plots to discredit YOU to the point where you're either forced to step down or would quit because the heat got too hot to take?

The best thing about the truth, Jim, is it's easy to spot the lies when you know it. If you were moderating this board, and not only saw board members trashing you and making stuff up when the reality is all mods are equally involved in bans and other decisions, but also found out it was being deliberately planned and organized by several board members who launched it as almost a campaign against you...I guess that would be OK to have people lying, bashing you on multiple forums, enlisting others to do the same thing, and then having people say "get off the cross"?

Right. If being a moderator involves that, i don't know how many good posters here would want any parts of it. Unless having people launch personal attack campaigns against you is part of the agreement when signing up.

If people are out to get you, why do you think that is? Did it just pop out of the mid-air or are you responsible for how you come off in here? Amazing too, that the banned members are also folks that had difference of opinions with you. Quite a few of the bannings come off looking like personal vendettas and some of those banned members believe that it is. That is the toughest part of moderating anything; being fair, but also getting involved and taking sides in the same discussions that you are moderating. That in itself is a tough balancing act, no doubt. Maybe we all need a do-over?

I know exactly why it is done and why it was done, Doctor. I also know the desired results. Unfortunately I don't think some of the people who not only bought into the campaigns and believed the lies, but also participated in them know what it's all about beneath the surface. That's the troubling part. There were a lot of people duped, I'm afraid. When all moderators and the board admin have - multiple times publicly - said exactly how things are and were done, yet the claims of something other than that truth are still being made and believed in order to discredit someone, that's not good. Propaganda tends to work that way, it's about promoting the lies as the truth, making people believe them, enlisting others to believe and join in the campaign, and get the results that are desired. The perspective is vastly different when you're the one targeted by propaganda.

Propaganda works both ways. I've seen lies promoted as truth, but I have seen truth promoted as a lie. Kind of depends on which side of the line you fall on. Most likely it all comes down to whether one feels like they have been treated fairly or not. For this board, I can only judge by what I read and by what actions that are taken. Either that or you are the unluckiest person when it comes to timing. You have to admit, a lot has gone down in a fairly short amount of time.

[drbeachboy]

Wow, this is getting pretty off-topic.

Perhaps a mod could come in and redirect the conversation back to this year's great tour?

A Mod redirected it in the first place.

[guitarfool2002]

I don't know if I should feel flattered by the attention, but the most active recent discussion on that board was back in November/December when Andrew (two Andrews, apparently) and several other former members of this forum who were banned decided to unload and turn it into a place to bash and criticize me for what they thought I did or didn't do here. That in itself was enough, but I also noticed the moderator apparently felt that was on topic enough to remain active, despite being everything but "It's all about the music", and even got in a few digs of their own. If that's the kind of board which encourages that kind of thing, then has members posting about comments made here about *there*, it becomes playground level kids' stuff. "I'm taking my ball and going home!" level dialogue. Nothing about the music. Just taking personal shots.

Then it became known that threads such as that on BBB were part of a deliberate effort to trash me and what I was supposed to have done or not done as a moderator of this board. Inspire others to join their calls for me to either step down or be 'fired', perhaps? In some cases it almost worked. Again this effort was involving members here who set out to discredit and bash me among others here, not only in light of the facts but again having nothing to do with coming to this forum or any other music community to talk about music, which is a regular charge for members to do more of. Yet that bashing fest stands as one of the most if not the most active thread on that community in months, if not all year. Do I get an end-of-the-year award for that distinction?  

It is unfortunate for the fans who actually do go there and here and anywhere else to post about the music, about shows, about anything related to the purpose of these forums. Because there are legitimately good, even great fans who like to hang out and talk.

It is a shame the real and honest-to-goodness fans have to unknowingly get pushed aside by the multiple layers that exist on these forums beyond fans coming here to read and talk to each other. It's not their fault there are others who are using these forums to purposely do things like the "Bash Guitarfool" type discussions at the end of last year and travel deep down into layers beyond what most people might think exist underneath all of this on the surface.

Please guitarfool, get off the freakin' cross already. I would probably say as far as The Beach Boys goes, I probably agree with you at least 75 percent of the time, but your propensity to take everything as an insult and the way you take every comment that may offer constructive criticism as something resembling a Judas or Brutus is just becoming a bit much.

Constructive criticism is fine. For months I read and answered messages sent to me that were constructive and critical, but when those messages from some people started to turn into rants full of profanity and the sense that any reply i offered, including the suggestion to simply ignore certain things before a script to allow that digitally was set up, was being ignored. If i didn't give the answer these people must have been seeking, nothing else was accepted and I became the asshole for not doing what others wanted.

No cross, man. How would you feel upon finding out there were board members who not only organized such a thing against you, but didn't have the guts to say it personally so they took it onto another forum and social media to trash YOUR name? Then to find out it was going on at a forum you don't even visit regularly, visit that forum, and find your name and actions you didn't even do being bashed by any number of people, led by exactly the people who you'd find out later had a hand in setting this up deliberately?

Then...to have it filter on to this board, where misunderstandings of how things are done, how moderators do not work alone or act alone, to have all moderators and the board administrator back that up, and still have people going around with their various plans and plots to discredit YOU to the point where you're either forced to step down or would quit because the heat got too hot to take?

The best thing about the truth, Jim, is it's easy to spot the lies when you know it. If you were moderating this board, and not only saw board members trashing you and making stuff up when the reality is all mods are equally involved in bans and other decisions, but also found out it was being deliberately planned and organized by several board members who launched it as almost a campaign against you...I guess that would be OK to have people lying, bashing you on multiple forums, enlisting others to do the same thing, and then having people say "get off the cross"?

Right. If being a moderator involves that, i don't know how many good posters here would want any parts of it. Unless having people launch personal attack campaigns against you is part of the agreement when signing up.

If people are out to get you, why do you think that is? Did it just pop out of the mid-air or are you responsible for how you come off in here? Amazing too, that the banned members are also folks that had difference of opinions with you. Quite a few of the bannings come off looking like personal vendettas and some of those banned members believe that it is. That is the toughest part of moderating anything; being fair, but also getting involved and taking sides in the same discussions that you are moderating. That in itself is a tough balancing act, no doubt. Maybe we all need a do-over?

I know exactly why it is done and why it was done, Doctor. I also know the desired results. Unfortunately I don't think some of the people who not only bought into the campaigns and believed the lies, but also participated in them know what it's all about beneath the surface. That's the troubling part. There were a lot of people duped, I'm afraid. When all moderators and the board admin have - multiple times publicly - said exactly how things are and were done, yet the claims of something other than that truth are still being made and believed in order to discredit someone, that's not good. Propaganda tends to work that way, it's about promoting the lies as the truth, making people believe them, enlisting others to believe and join in the campaign, and get the results that are desired. The perspective is vastly different when you're the one targeted by propaganda.

Propaganda works both ways. I've seen lies promoted as truth, but I have seen truth promoted as a lie. Kind of depends on which side of the line you fall on. Most likely it all comes down to whether one feels like they have been treated fairly or not. For this board, I can only judge by what I read and by what actions that are taken. Either that or you are the unluckiest person when it comes to timing. You have to admit, a lot has gone down in a fairly short amount of time.

Consider that the reasons behind "a lot going down" that you might believe are not the actual, deeper reasons why things were and are being done. A lot of people have axes to grind against any number of individuals, but they don't start and engage in propaganda or smear campaigns across several message boards and social media outlets to badmouth and influence the removal of one moderator on a message board. Did you consider there might be more to the whole thing, Doctor, than disagreeing with or not liking someone on a message board which would explain how much effort has gone into these things so far?

[guitarfool2002]

Wow, this is getting pretty off-topic.

Perhaps a mod could come in and redirect the conversation back to this year's great tour?

A Mod redirected it in the first place.

Wrong. A mod responded to other posts that came before.

[drbeachboy]

Wow, this is getting pretty off-topic.

Perhaps a mod could come in and redirect the conversation back to this year's great tour?

A Mod redirected it in the first place.

Wrong. A mod responded to other posts that came before.

How is what is written about Brian, then turned to you being persecuted on another board? I can understand how it could happen.

[drbeachboy]

I don't know if I should feel flattered by the attention, but the most active recent discussion on that board was back in November/December when Andrew (two Andrews, apparently) and several other former members of this forum who were banned decided to unload and turn it into a place to bash and criticize me for what they thought I did or didn't do here. That in itself was enough, but I also noticed the moderator apparently felt that was on topic enough to remain active, despite being everything but "It's all about the music", and even got in a few digs of their own. If that's the kind of board which encourages that kind of thing, then has members posting about comments made here about *there*, it becomes playground level kids' stuff. "I'm taking my ball and going home!" level dialogue. Nothing about the music. Just taking personal shots.

Then it became known that threads such as that on BBB were part of a deliberate effort to trash me and what I was supposed to have done or not done as a moderator of this board. Inspire others to join their calls for me to either step down or be 'fired', perhaps? In some cases it almost worked. Again this effort was involving members here who set out to discredit and bash me among others here, not only in light of the facts but again having nothing to do with coming to this forum or any other music community to talk about music, which is a regular charge for members to do more of. Yet that bashing fest stands as one of the most if not the most active thread on that community in months, if not all year. Do I get an end-of-the-year award for that distinction? 

It is unfortunate for the fans who actually do go there and here and anywhere else to post about the music, about shows, about anything related to the purpose of these forums. Because there are legitimately good, even great fans who like to hang out and talk.

It is a shame the real and honest-to-goodness fans have to unknowingly get pushed aside by the multiple layers that exist on these forums beyond fans coming here to read and talk to each other. It's not their fault there are others who are using these forums to purposely do things like the "Bash Guitarfool" type discussions at the end of last year and travel deep down into layers beyond what most people might think exist underneath all of this on the surface.

Please guitarfool, get off the freakin' cross already. I would probably say as far as The Beach Boys goes, I probably agree with you at least 75 percent of the time, but your propensity to take everything as an insult and the way you take every comment that may offer constructive criticism as something resembling a Judas or Brutus is just becoming a bit much.

Constructive criticism is fine. For months I read and answered messages sent to me that were constructive and critical, but when those messages from some people started to turn into rants full of profanity and the sense that any reply i offered, including the suggestion to simply ignore certain things before a script to allow that digitally was set up, was being ignored. If i didn't give the answer these people must have been seeking, nothing else was accepted and I became the asshole for not doing what others wanted.

No cross, man. How would you feel upon finding out there were board members who not only organized such a thing against you, but didn't have the guts to say it personally so they took it onto another forum and social media to trash YOUR name? Then to find out it was going on at a forum you don't even visit regularly, visit that forum, and find your name and actions you didn't even do being bashed by any number of people, led by exactly the people who you'd find out later had a hand in setting this up deliberately?

Then...to have it filter on to this board, where misunderstandings of how things are done, how moderators do not work alone or act alone, to have all moderators and the board administrator back that up, and still have people going around with their various plans and plots to discredit YOU to the point where you're either forced to step down or would quit because the heat got too hot to take?

The best thing about the truth, Jim, is it's easy to spot the lies when you know it. If you were moderating this board, and not only saw board members trashing you and making stuff up when the reality is all mods are equally involved in bans and other decisions, but also found out it was being deliberately planned and organized by several board members who launched it as almost a campaign against you...I guess that would be OK to have people lying, bashing you on multiple forums, enlisting others to do the same thing, and then having people say "get off the cross"?

Right. If being a moderator involves that, i don't know how many good posters here would want any parts of it. Unless having people launch personal attack campaigns against you is part of the agreement when signing up.

If people are out to get you, why do you think that is? Did it just pop out of the mid-air or are you responsible for how you come off in here? Amazing too, that the banned members are also folks that had difference of opinions with you. Quite a few of the bannings come off looking like personal vendettas and some of those banned members believe that it is. That is the toughest part of moderating anything; being fair, but also getting involved and taking sides in the same discussions that you are moderating. That in itself is a tough balancing act, no doubt. Maybe we all need a do-over?

I know exactly why it is done and why it was done, Doctor. I also know the desired results. Unfortunately I don't think some of the people who not only bought into the campaigns and believed the lies, but also participated in them know what it's all about beneath the surface. That's the troubling part. There were a lot of people duped, I'm afraid. When all moderators and the board admin have - multiple times publicly - said exactly how things are and were done, yet the claims of something other than that truth are still being made and believed in order to discredit someone, that's not good. Propaganda tends to work that way, it's about promoting the lies as the truth, making people believe them, enlisting others to believe and join in the campaign, and get the results that are desired. The perspective is vastly different when you're the one targeted by propaganda.

Propaganda works both ways. I've seen lies promoted as truth, but I have seen truth promoted as a lie. Kind of depends on which side of the line you fall on. Most likely it all comes down to whether one feels like they have been treated fairly or not. For this board, I can only judge by what I read and by what actions that are taken. Either that or you are the unluckiest person when it comes to timing. You have to admit, a lot has gone down in a fairly short amount of time.

Consider that the reasons behind "a lot going down" that you might believe are not the actual, deeper reasons why things were and are being done. A lot of people have axes to grind against any number of individuals, but they don't start and engage in propaganda or smear campaigns across several message boards and social media outlets to badmouth and influence the removal of one moderator on a message board. Did you consider there might be more to the whole thing, Doctor, than disagreeing with or not liking someone on a message board which would explain how much effort has gone into these things so far?

Seriously, you need to look in the mirror to answer that question. Only you and the people posting know exactly why this is happening.

[guitarfool2002]

I don't know if I should feel flattered by the attention, but the most active recent discussion on that board was back in November/December when Andrew (two Andrews, apparently) and several other former members of this forum who were banned decided to unload and turn it into a place to bash and criticize me for what they thought I did or didn't do here. That in itself was enough, but I also noticed the moderator apparently felt that was on topic enough to remain active, despite being everything but "It's all about the music", and even got in a few digs of their own. If that's the kind of board which encourages that kind of thing, then has members posting about comments made here about *there*, it becomes playground level kids' stuff. "I'm taking my ball and going home!" level dialogue. Nothing about the music. Just taking personal shots.

Then it became known that threads such as that on BBB were part of a deliberate effort to trash me and what I was supposed to have done or not done as a moderator of this board. Inspire others to join their calls for me to either step down or be 'fired', perhaps? In some cases it almost worked. Again this effort was involving members here who set out to discredit and bash me among others here, not only in light of the facts but again having nothing to do with coming to this forum or any other music community to talk about music, which is a regular charge for members to do more of. Yet that bashing fest stands as one of the most if not the most active thread on that community in months, if not all year. Do I get an end-of-the-year award for that distinction? 

It is unfortunate for the fans who actually do go there and here and anywhere else to post about the music, about shows, about anything related to the purpose of these forums. Because there are legitimately good, even great fans who like to hang out and talk.

It is a shame the real and honest-to-goodness fans have to unknowingly get pushed aside by the multiple layers that exist on these forums beyond fans coming here to read and talk to each other. It's not their fault there are others who are using these forums to purposely do things like the "Bash Guitarfool" type discussions at the end of last year and travel deep down into layers beyond what most people might think exist underneath all of this on the surface.

Please guitarfool, get off the freakin' cross already. I would probably say as far as The Beach Boys goes, I probably agree with you at least 75 percent of the time, but your propensity to take everything as an insult and the way you take every comment that may offer constructive criticism as something resembling a Judas or Brutus is just becoming a bit much.

Constructive criticism is fine. For months I read and answered messages sent to me that were constructive and critical, but when those messages from some people started to turn into rants full of profanity and the sense that any reply i offered, including the suggestion to simply ignore certain things before a script to allow that digitally was set up, was being ignored. If i didn't give the answer these people must have been seeking, nothing else was accepted and I became the asshole for not doing what others wanted.

No cross, man. How would you feel upon finding out there were board members who not only organized such a thing against you, but didn't have the guts to say it personally so they took it onto another forum and social media to trash YOUR name? Then to find out it was going on at a forum you don't even visit regularly, visit that forum, and find your name and actions you didn't even do being bashed by any number of people, led by exactly the people who you'd find out later had a hand in setting this up deliberately?

Then...to have it filter on to this board, where misunderstandings of how things are done, how moderators do not work alone or act alone, to have all moderators and the board administrator back that up, and still have people going around with their various plans and plots to discredit YOU to the point where you're either forced to step down or would quit because the heat got too hot to take?

The best thing about the truth, Jim, is it's easy to spot the lies when you know it. If you were moderating this board, and not only saw board members trashing you and making stuff up when the reality is all mods are equally involved in bans and other decisions, but also found out it was being deliberately planned and organized by several board members who launched it as almost a campaign against you...I guess that would be OK to have people lying, bashing you on multiple forums, enlisting others to do the same thing, and then having people say "get off the cross"?

Right. If being a moderator involves that, i don't know how many good posters here would want any parts of it. Unless having people launch personal attack campaigns against you is part of the agreement when signing up.

If people are out to get you, why do you think that is? Did it just pop out of the mid-air or are you responsible for how you come off in here? Amazing too, that the banned members are also folks that had difference of opinions with you. Quite a few of the bannings come off looking like personal vendettas and some of those banned members believe that it is. That is the toughest part of moderating anything; being fair, but also getting involved and taking sides in the same discussions that you are moderating. That in itself is a tough balancing act, no doubt. Maybe we all need a do-over?

I know exactly why it is done and why it was done, Doctor. I also know the desired results. Unfortunately I don't think some of the people who not only bought into the campaigns and believed the lies, but also participated in them know what it's all about beneath the surface. That's the troubling part. There were a lot of people duped, I'm afraid. When all moderators and the board admin have - multiple times publicly - said exactly how things are and were done, yet the claims of something other than that truth are still being made and believed in order to discredit someone, that's not good. Propaganda tends to work that way, it's about promoting the lies as the truth, making people believe them, enlisting others to believe and join in the campaign, and get the results that are desired. The perspective is vastly different when you're the one targeted by propaganda.

Propaganda works both ways. I've seen lies promoted as truth, but I have seen truth promoted as a lie. Kind of depends on which side of the line you fall on. Most likely it all comes down to whether one feels like they have been treated fairly or not. For this board, I can only judge by what I read and by what actions that are taken. Either that or you are the unluckiest person when it comes to timing. You have to admit, a lot has gone down in a fairly short amount of time.

Consider that the reasons behind "a lot going down" that you might believe are not the actual, deeper reasons why things were and are being done. A lot of people have axes to grind against any number of individuals, but they don't start and engage in propaganda or smear campaigns across several message boards and social media outlets to badmouth and influence the removal of one moderator on a message board. Did you consider there might be more to the whole thing, Doctor, than disagreeing with or not liking someone on a message board which would explain how much effort has gone into these things so far?

Seriously, you need to look in the mirror to answer that question. Only you and the people posting know exactly why this is happening.

I know exactly why. It's a shame if anyone who believed those behind the campaign might not have been told the real story or the real reasons before signing on.

[drbeachboy]

I don't know if I should feel flattered by the attention, but the most active recent discussion on that board was back in November/December when Andrew (two Andrews, apparently) and several other former members of this forum who were banned decided to unload and turn it into a place to bash and criticize me for what they thought I did or didn't do here. That in itself was enough, but I also noticed the moderator apparently felt that was on topic enough to remain active, despite being everything but "It's all about the music", and even got in a few digs of their own. If that's the kind of board which encourages that kind of thing, then has members posting about comments made here about *there*, it becomes playground level kids' stuff. "I'm taking my ball and going home!" level dialogue. Nothing about the music. Just taking personal shots.

Then it became known that threads such as that on BBB were part of a deliberate effort to trash me and what I was supposed to have done or not done as a moderator of this board. Inspire others to join their calls for me to either step down or be 'fired', perhaps? In some cases it almost worked. Again this effort was involving members here who set out to discredit and bash me among others here, not only in light of the facts but again having nothing to do with coming to this forum or any other music community to talk about music, which is a regular charge for members to do more of. Yet that bashing fest stands as one of the most if not the most active thread on that community in months, if not all year. Do I get an end-of-the-year award for that distinction?  

It is unfortunate for the fans who actually do go there and here and anywhere else to post about the music, about shows, about anything related to the purpose of these forums. Because there are legitimately good, even great fans who like to hang out and talk.

It is a shame the real and honest-to-goodness fans have to unknowingly get pushed aside by the multiple layers that exist on these forums beyond fans coming here to read and talk to each other. It's not their fault there are others who are using these forums to purposely do things like the "Bash Guitarfool" type discussions at the end of last year and travel deep down into layers beyond what most people might think exist underneath all of this on the surface.

Please guitarfool, get off the freakin' cross already. I would probably say as far as The Beach Boys goes, I probably agree with you at least 75 percent of the time, but your propensity to take everything as an insult and the way you take every comment that may offer constructive criticism as something resembling a Judas or Brutus is just becoming a bit much.

Constructive criticism is fine. For months I read and answered messages sent to me that were constructive and critical, but when those messages from some people started to turn into rants full of profanity and the sense that any reply i offered, including the suggestion to simply ignore certain things before a script to allow that digitally was set up, was being ignored. If i didn't give the answer these people must have been seeking, nothing else was accepted and I became the asshole for not doing what others wanted.

No cross, man. How would you feel upon finding out there were board members who not only organized such a thing against you, but didn't have the guts to say it personally so they took it onto another forum and social media to trash YOUR name? Then to find out it was going on at a forum you don't even visit regularly, visit that forum, and find your name and actions you didn't even do being bashed by any number of people, led by exactly the people who you'd find out later had a hand in setting this up deliberately?

Then...to have it filter on to this board, where misunderstandings of how things are done, how moderators do not work alone or act alone, to have all moderators and the board administrator back that up, and still have people going around with their various plans and plots to discredit YOU to the point where you're either forced to step down or would quit because the heat got too hot to take?

The best thing about the truth, Jim, is it's easy to spot the lies when you know it. If you were moderating this board, and not only saw board members trashing you and making stuff up when the reality is all mods are equally involved in bans and other decisions, but also found out it was being deliberately planned and organized by several board members who launched it as almost a campaign against you...I guess that would be OK to have people lying, bashing you on multiple forums, enlisting others to do the same thing, and then having people say "get off the cross"?

Right. If being a moderator involves that, i don't know how many good posters here would want any parts of it. Unless having people launch personal attack campaigns against you is part of the agreement when signing up.

If people are out to get you, why do you think that is? Did it just pop out of the mid-air or are you responsible for how you come off in here? Amazing too, that the banned members are also folks that had difference of opinions with you. Quite a few of the bannings come off looking like personal vendettas and some of those banned members believe that it is. That is the toughest part of moderating anything; being fair, but also getting involved and taking sides in the same discussions that you are moderating. That in itself is a tough balancing act, no doubt. Maybe we all need a do-over?

I know exactly why it is done and why it was done, Doctor. I also know the desired results. Unfortunately I don't think some of the people who not only bought into the campaigns and believed the lies, but also participated in them know what it's all about beneath the surface. That's the troubling part. There were a lot of people duped, I'm afraid. When all moderators and the board admin have - multiple times publicly - said exactly how things are and were done, yet the claims of something other than that truth are still being made and believed in order to discredit someone, that's not good. Propaganda tends to work that way, it's about promoting the lies as the truth, making people believe them, enlisting others to believe and join in the campaign, and get the results that are desired. The perspective is vastly different when you're the one targeted by propaganda.

Propaganda works both ways. I've seen lies promoted as truth, but I have seen truth promoted as a lie. Kind of depends on which side of the line you fall on. Most likely it all comes down to whether one feels like they have been treated fairly or not. For this board, I can only judge by what I read and by what actions that are taken. Either that or you are the unluckiest person when it comes to timing. You have to admit, a lot has gone down in a fairly short amount of time.

Consider that the reasons behind "a lot going down" that you might believe are not the actual, deeper reasons why things were and are being done. A lot of people have axes to grind against any number of individuals, but they don't start and engage in propaganda or smear campaigns across several message boards and social media outlets to badmouth and influence the removal of one moderator on a message board. Did you consider there might be more to the whole thing, Doctor, than disagreeing with or not liking someone on a message board which would explain how much effort has gone into these things so far?

Seriously, you need to look in the mirror to answer that question. Only you and the people posting know exactly why this is happening.

I know exactly why. It's a shame if anyone who believed those behind the campaign might not have been told the real story or the real reasons before signing on.

Oh, the high Intrigues that go one here at Smiley Smile.

Please do fill us in. Man, this is better than the National Enquirer.

[D409]

Any danger of this going back on topic, please, mods ?

Actually, I know the answer to this question - there will be some reports from London soon, so hopefully that'll steer things in the right direction...

[The Shift]

I'd just like to state that I formed my own opinion about the moderating here; didn't sign up to any conspiracy.

I'm looking forward to Friday's Glasgow show but probably won't bother posting my thoughts.

[Emily]

I'd just like to state that I formed my own opinion about the moderating here; didn't sign up to any conspiracy.

I'm looking forward to Friday's Glasgow show but probably won't bother posting my thoughts.

I totally romanticize Scotland.

[Jim V.]

I don't know if I should feel flattered by the attention, but the most active recent discussion on that board was back in November/December when Andrew (two Andrews, apparently) and several other former members of this forum who were banned decided to unload and turn it into a place to bash and criticize me for what they thought I did or didn't do here. That in itself was enough, but I also noticed the moderator apparently felt that was on topic enough to remain active, despite being everything but "It's all about the music", and even got in a few digs of their own. If that's the kind of board which encourages that kind of thing, then has members posting about comments made here about *there*, it becomes playground level kids' stuff. "I'm taking my ball and going home!" level dialogue. Nothing about the music. Just taking personal shots.

Then it became known that threads such as that on BBB were part of a deliberate effort to trash me and what I was supposed to have done or not done as a moderator of this board. Inspire others to join their calls for me to either step down or be 'fired', perhaps? In some cases it almost worked. Again this effort was involving members here who set out to discredit and bash me among others here, not only in light of the facts but again having nothing to do with coming to this forum or any other music community to talk about music, which is a regular charge for members to do more of. Yet that bashing fest stands as one of the most if not the most active thread on that community in months, if not all year. Do I get an end-of-the-year award for that distinction?  

It is unfortunate for the fans who actually do go there and here and anywhere else to post about the music, about shows, about anything related to the purpose of these forums. Because there are legitimately good, even great fans who like to hang out and talk.

It is a shame the real and honest-to-goodness fans have to unknowingly get pushed aside by the multiple layers that exist on these forums beyond fans coming here to read and talk to each other. It's not their fault there are others who are using these forums to purposely do things like the "Bash Guitarfool" type discussions at the end of last year and travel deep down into layers beyond what most people might think exist underneath all of this on the surface.

Please guitarfool, get off the freakin' cross already. I would probably say as far as The Beach Boys goes, I probably agree with you at least 75 percent of the time, but your propensity to take everything as an insult and the way you take every comment that may offer constructive criticism as something resembling a Judas or Brutus is just becoming a bit much.

Constructive criticism is fine. For months I read and answered messages sent to me that were constructive and critical, but when those messages from some people started to turn into rants full of profanity and the sense that any reply i offered, including the suggestion to simply ignore certain things before a script to allow that digitally was set up, was being ignored. If i didn't give the answer these people must have been seeking, nothing else was accepted and I became the asshole for not doing what others wanted.

No cross, man. How would you feel upon finding out there were board members who not only organized such a thing against you, but didn't have the guts to say it personally so they took it onto another forum and social media to trash YOUR name? Then to find out it was going on at a forum you don't even visit regularly, visit that forum, and find your name and actions you didn't even do being bashed by any number of people, led by exactly the people who you'd find out later had a hand in setting this up deliberately?

Then...to have it filter on to this board, where misunderstandings of how things are done, how moderators do not work alone or act alone, to have all moderators and the board administrator back that up, and still have people going around with their various plans and plots to discredit YOU to the point where you're either forced to step down or would quit because the heat got too hot to take?

The best thing about the truth, Jim, is it's easy to spot the lies when you know it. If you were moderating this board, and not only saw board members trashing you and making stuff up when the reality is all mods are equally involved in bans and other decisions, but also found out it was being deliberately planned and organized by several board members who launched it as almost a campaign against you...I guess that would be OK to have people lying, bashing you on multiple forums, enlisting others to do the same thing, and then having people say "get off the cross"?

Right. If being a moderator involves that, i don't know how many good posters here would want any parts of it. Unless having people launch personal attack campaigns against you is part of the agreement when signing up.

If people are out to get you, why do you think that is? Did it just pop out of the mid-air or are you responsible for how you come off in here? Amazing too, that the banned members are also folks that had difference of opinions with you. Quite a few of the bannings come off looking like personal vendettas and some of those banned members believe that it is. That is the toughest part of moderating anything; being fair, but also getting involved and taking sides in the same discussions that you are moderating. That in itself is a tough balancing act, no doubt. Maybe we all need a do-over?

I know exactly why it is done and why it was done, Doctor. I also know the desired results. Unfortunately I don't think some of the people who not only bought into the campaigns and believed the lies, but also participated in them know what it's all about beneath the surface. That's the troubling part. There were a lot of people duped, I'm afraid. When all moderators and the board admin have - multiple times publicly - said exactly how things are and were done, yet the claims of something other than that truth are still being made and believed in order to discredit someone, that's not good. Propaganda tends to work that way, it's about promoting the lies as the truth, making people believe them, enlisting others to believe and join in the campaign, and get the results that are desired. The perspective is vastly different when you're the one targeted by propaganda.

Propaganda works both ways. I've seen lies promoted as truth, but I have seen truth promoted as a lie. Kind of depends on which side of the line you fall on. Most likely it all comes down to whether one feels like they have been treated fairly or not. For this board, I can only judge by what I read and by what actions that are taken. Either that or you are the unluckiest person when it comes to timing. You have to admit, a lot has gone down in a fairly short amount of time.

Consider that the reasons behind "a lot going down" that you might believe are not the actual, deeper reasons why things were and are being done. A lot of people have axes to grind against any number of individuals, but they don't start and engage in propaganda or smear campaigns across several message boards and social media outlets to badmouth and influence the removal of one moderator on a message board. Did you consider there might be more to the whole thing, Doctor, than disagreeing with or not liking someone on a message board which would explain how much effort has gone into these things so far?

Seriously, you need to look in the mirror to answer that question. Only you and the people posting know exactly why this is happening.

I know exactly why. It's a shame if anyone who believed those behind the campaign might not have been told the real story or the real reasons before signing on.

Oh, the high Intrigues that go one here at Smiley Smile.

Please do fill us in. Man, this is better than the National Enquirer.

I'm gonna be totally honest about this...

THIS IS A FUCKIN' MESSAGE BOARD! This isn't the Pentagon or the Mob or some super serious thing! I think some people are taking themselves way, way, way too frickin' seriously about this stuff, with people apparently "out to get" people that they don't even really know in day-to-day life? Really? I'll admit I've had some run-ins with some people on these boards such as the deplorable Ian Wagner and the heinous Mam Cott. But even then, I never would take it far enough to get into "conspiracy" or whatever. It's outta hand.