Opinions on LGBT rights

[Emily]

I suggest that if anyone wants to discuss their own opinion on this matter, they start a new thread in the sandbox.
Please keep this thread just for discussing any record of the Beach Boys' opinions.

[37!ws]

I suggest that if anyone wants to discuss their own opinion on this matter, they start a new thread in the sandbox.
Please keep this thread just for discussing any record of the Beach Boys' opinions.

There's a lot of that going on, Emily, all over the place:

- Concert reviews posted here instead of the concert reviews subforum
- Album/book reviews instead of the dedicated reviews forum
- etc.

(Not going to pretend it doesn't bother me, but hey...I'm not a moderator on this site...which, quite frankly makes me feel much better about myself as a person.)

[Emily]

I suggest that if anyone wants to discuss their own opinion on this matter, they start a new thread in the sandbox.
Please keep this thread just for discussing any record of the Beach Boys' opinions.

There's a lot of that going on, Emily, all over the place:

- Concert reviews posted here instead of the concert reviews subforum
- Album/book reviews instead of the dedicated reviews forum
- etc.

(Not going to pretend it doesn't bother me, but hey...I'm not a moderator on this site...which, quite frankly makes me feel much better about myself as a person.)

Frankly it doesn't really bother me typically if threads are in the wrong place. For some reason though, if there's going to be a feud that isn't about the BBs, I'd rather it be in the sandbox. Don't know why.

[Pretty Funky]

I suggest that if anyone wants to discuss their own opinion on this matter, they start a new thread in the sandbox.
Please keep this thread just for discussing any record of the Beach Boys' opinions.

There's a lot of that going on, Emily, all over the place:

- Concert reviews posted here instead of the concert reviews subforum
- Album/book reviews instead of the dedicated reviews forum
- etc.

(Not going to pretend it doesn't bother me, but hey...I'm not a moderator on this site...which, quite frankly makes me feel much better about myself as a person.)

I don't have a problem with reviews being on the main page as they are grouped ie The BW PS Tour 2016 or BB Tour 2015. They don't take up much space and I find them an interesting read. Albums and books are hardly an every year occurrence so they also deserve a main page especially next year with both Mike and Brian writing bio's.

[Bill30022]

From what I understand Mike Love is actually a post-op trans whose birth name was Michelle. A little known fact is that Michelle Love inspired Paul McCartney to compose "Michelle".

[Bill30022]

Little known fact - "Help Me Rhonda" was originally "Help Me Ronald".

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

 

[coco1997]

Little known fact - "Help Me Rhonda" was originally "Help Me Ronald".

 

[Bill30022]

Little known fact - "Busy Doin' Nothin'" was originally "Busy Doin' Nathan"

[wantsomecorn]

Little known fact - "Busy Doin' Nothin'" was originally "Busy Doin' Nathan"

Is "Nothin'" a popular girl's name in the strange world you inhabit?

[Douchepool]

Well, I thought I was the only one who found the silly tranny Beach Boys song titles to be rather not funny.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I suggest that if anyone wants to discuss their own opinion on this matter, they start a new thread in the sandbox.
Please keep this thread just for discussing any record of the Beach Boys' opinions.

I strongly suggest that as well.

Extremely strongly.

[donald]

Perhaps the beach boys have addressed this sort of thing in song on the C50 lp in The private life of Bill and Sue.   

[Ron]

They probably haven't really spoken about it because just in my opinion, most people don't really care one way or the other.  Live and let live, as you will.

I'd imagine to that community, it's a big deal to them and something to be curious about, but I think to most heterosexual people they just don't think about it much.   

I also think you'd be hard pressed to find anybody in the music industry who wasn't generally supportive of LGBT rights (the phrase the OP used), because for whatever reason there seems to be a higher percentage of LGBT in the music industry than the general populace.  So in other words, all of these guys have probably known LGBT people their entire lives (they've been famous musicans since their teens). 

I think studies have shown that people who actually know LGBT people are more likely to be supportive of gay marriage, etc.    Kind of hard to be hardball against it if your neighbor's gay.  Or if you're in a band and two of the guitarists are dating each other, lol

[Ron]

Little known fact - "Help Me Rhonda" was originally "Help Me Ronald".

I've told this story before, but when I was a kid, I absolutely thought they were singing "Help me Ronnie" (my name).  It never occurred to me that the song was about a girl. 

[AndrewHickey]

Well, I thought I was the only one who found the silly tranny Beach Boys song titles to be rather not funny.

They're not even slightly funny. Incidentally, the word "tr*nny" is regarded by many trans people as roughly as offensive as many black people consider the n word. Given that at least one trans person has posted in this thread, it's probably an idea to avoid the term if you don't want to cause offence.

[filledeplage]

I know this is extremely random but-
Have any of the beach boys ever shared their opinions on gay marriage and overall LGBT rights?

Any personal opinions are of far lesser impact than the following of the music in the LGBT community.  I did not notice any mention of the all important booklet in the Pet Sounds Box Set, and the two page Garry Trudeau Doonesbury reprinted cartoon on pages 20-21, following the release of the Box Set.  They appeared in over 500 newspapers around the US in May of 1990. (The CD release impact.)

"Later that year Brian (Wilson) and Garry autographed the original strips and those panels were sold by a San Francisco art gallery, raising thousands of dollars for 'The Names Project AIDS Memorial Quilt' through sales of the artwork, a limited edition poster and benefit concert at which Brian performed a short set that included God Only Knows."

The Pet Sounds Box Sessions Set was released on November 4, 1997.  

[HeyJude]

I suggest that if anyone wants to discuss their own opinion on this matter, they start a new thread in the sandbox.
Please keep this thread just for discussing any record of the Beach Boys' opinions.

There's a lot of that going on, Emily, all over the place:

- Concert reviews posted here instead of the concert reviews subforum
- Album/book reviews instead of the dedicated reviews forum
- etc.

(Not going to pretend it doesn't bother me, but hey...I'm not a moderator on this site...which, quite frankly makes me feel much better about myself as a person.)

Not to get too off topic within a thread that has arguably veered off topic, but just one note about concert reviews on the main forum. I don’t see it as a problem, and actually prefer it. It’s not as if the board is so prolifically active that it clogs things up. I’ve been amazed at how little the November/December Brian dates were discussed.

Concert reviews (and general tour threads) are more on-topic than a lot of stuff in the main forum, and really one of the only things where elements of the band are still regularly active. They’re not exactly knocking out an album each year or anything.

I think the sub-forum for “Concert Reviews” is a good repository for old reviews, especially stuff like C50 when we had a lot more reviews and threads for nearly every concert on the tour. Outside of C50, we get sporadically active Brian tour threads, and really only occasional reviews and commentaries about Mike’s shows (meanwhile in past years Al’s shows are so obscure and sporadic that years could have gone by with little mention of his shows).

[filledeplage]

Not to get too off topic within a thread that has arguably veered off topic, but just one note about concert reviews on the main forum. I don’t see it as a problem, and actually prefer it. It’s not as if the board is so prolifically active that it clogs things up. I’ve been amazed at how little the November/December Brian dates were discussed.

Concert reviews (and general tour threads) are more on-topic than a lot of stuff in the main forum, and really one of the only things where elements of the band are still regularly active. They’re not exactly knocking out an album each year or anything.

I think the sub-forum for “Concert Reviews” is a good repository for old reviews, especially stuff like C50 when we had a lot more reviews and threads for nearly every concert on the tour. Outside of C50, we get sporadically active Brian tour threads, and really only occasional reviews and commentaries about Mike’s shows (meanwhile in past years Al’s shows are so obscure and sporadic that years could have gone by with little mention of his shows).

Hey Jude - The thread title maybe should have been a very good Sandbox topic. 

I'm not clear at all on what you are trying to convey.

   

[bonnevillemariner]

I find it amusing that the same group of people that will rip each other up and down for having a differing opinion on how C50 ended are the same group that is almost comically walking on eggshells with this topic.  I'm not belittling the topic (LGBT rights-- not the title topic, which I find completely irrelevant).  I just have a few pet peeves that happen to converge in this thread: self-righteousness activism (regardless of the issue) and Americans' tendency to bend over backward not to offend selective groups who they see as in need hero defenders.  

[Emily]

I find it amusing that the same group of people that will rip each other up and down for having a differing opinion on how C50 ended are the same group that is almost comically walking on eggshells with this topic.  I'm not belittling the topic (LGBT rights-- not the title topic, which I find completely irrelevant).  I just have a few pet peeves that happen to converge in this thread: self-righteousness activism (regardless of the issue) and Americans' tendency to bend over backward not to offend selective groups who them see as in need hero defenders.  

This is exactly the sort of post I was referring to when I suggested a topic be opened in the Sandbox if someone wants to discuss their own opinions rather than the Beach Boys'. I'm "walking on eggshells" because I'm trying hard to avoid getting drawn into an off-topic argument, not because I'm not willing to argue on this topic, in its place.

[HeyJude]

Not to get too off topic within a thread that has arguably veered off topic, but just one note about concert reviews on the main forum. I don’t see it as a problem, and actually prefer it. It’s not as if the board is so prolifically active that it clogs things up. I’ve been amazed at how little the November/December Brian dates were discussed.

Concert reviews (and general tour threads) are more on-topic than a lot of stuff in the main forum, and really one of the only things where elements of the band are still regularly active. They’re not exactly knocking out an album each year or anything.

I think the sub-forum for “Concert Reviews” is a good repository for old reviews, especially stuff like C50 when we had a lot more reviews and threads for nearly every concert on the tour. Outside of C50, we get sporadically active Brian tour threads, and really only occasional reviews and commentaries about Mike’s shows (meanwhile in past years Al’s shows are so obscure and sporadic that years could have gone by with little mention of his shows).

Hey Jude - The thread title maybe should have been a very good Sandbox topic.  

I'm not clear at all on what you are trying to convey.

  

I'm referring to the post only a few clicks above yours and mine, referencing other potential topics that belong in other forums, including "Concert Reviews."

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23116.msg551134.html#msg551134

My apologies, as my post required having read other posts on the same page as well.

I'd say the point I was making, whether one cares or agrees or disagrees, was not oblique or confusing in the slightest.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

As for myself I now know why ol Billy C says he avoids the Sandbox like the plague. Better to just know that "hey these are people who I can discuss the bbs with" and not what everyone's stand is on political/social things. I got a quick peak at the abortion topic and that was enough.

I do appreciate it, Andrew, sticking up for me. Personally I think Ron raises a good point--if you're not lgbt then you don't think about this stuff or really care, while for someone who is it's obviously more of a big deal. I think there *is* something to be said on the whole "evil succeeds when good men do nothing" point of view--you may not care but it means a lot to others who could use support, etc. But I sympathize with those who don't think a beach boys forum is the proper place to soapbox for this. I resent the accusation that anyone has been doing just that, however. I don't think anyone has been self-righteously crusading for morality so much as just discussing the topic (which for what it's worth I agree shouldn't be on the main board anymore.) The only thing I can think of is myself saying that to go around calling people f@ggot is wrong and Andrew just gently bringing up that the word tranny is hurtful to some people. Again if that's grandstanding or being a SJW to some of you I suggest checking out Tumblr or certain sections of Facebook. I don't see what's so deplorable about raising awareness that certain terms or behavior are upsetting when it comes up as long as its done in an informative rather than holier-than-thou way.

That said, I think maybe this thread ought to be locked or moved before it goes in an ugly/off-topic direction. Like I've been saying, the question has been answered as substantially as possible. When a topic devolves into replacing names in song titles its lost all reason to exist, not because that's offensive but because it's fucking stupid.

[filledeplage]

As for myself I now know why ol Billy C says he avoids the Sandbox like the plague. Better to just know that "hey these are people who I can discuss the bbs with" and not what everyone's stand is on political/social things. I got a quick peak at the abortion topic and that was enough.

I do appreciate it, Andrew, sticking up for me. Personally I think Ron raises a good point--if you're not lgbt then you don't think about this stuff or really care, while for someone who is it's obviously more of a big deal. I think there *is* something to be said on the whole "evil succeeds when good men do nothing" point of view--you may not care but it means a lot to others who could use support, etc. But I sympathize with those who don't think a beach boys forum is the proper place to soapbox for this. I resent the accusation that anyone has been doing just that, however. I don't think anyone has been self-righteously crusading for morality so much as just discussing the topic (which for what it's worth I agree shouldn't be on the main board anymore.) The only thing I can think of is myself saying that to go around calling people f@ggot is wrong and Andrew just gently bringing up that the word tranny is hurtful to some people. Again if that's grandstanding or being a SJW to some of you I suggest checking out Tumblr or certain sections of Facebook. I don't see what's so deplorable about raising awareness that certain terms or behavior are upsetting when it comes up as long as its done in an informative rather than holier-than-thou way.

That said, I think maybe this thread ought to be locked or moved before it goes in an ugly/off-topic direction. Like I've been saying, the question has been answered as substantially as possible. When a topic devolves into replacing names in song titles its lost all reason to exist, not because that's offensive but because it's fucking stupid.

Mujan - give some of us a little credit.  Many of us have or unfortunately "had" (HIV-AIDS) LGBT community family members or friends.  As a result of better meds, fewer LGBT members who are HIV positive, succumb to this.  Now, a health care issue such as HIV has found itself in another population;  those who are addicted.

So, in the 80's and 90's before the advanced meds that have emerged, I would liken the scourge of HIV in the LGBT community, to the epidemic of OD's going on right now, in the general population, where the lack of understanding of the problem produces prejudice, disparagement and treatment that needs to be advocated and fought for.   And maybe some of the activism that the LGBT did, has helped an unintended population.

So there is a frame of reference with a "marginalized population" who might very well have an affinity for BB music as was recognized in the Doonesbury cartoon from 1990 in the Pet Sounds Session Box set.  It is not so different, just a different population, who have an emerging set of needs and civil rights (whether it is health care advocacy or discriminatory treatment with  jobs, etc.) 

But, I do love your passion for advocacy.  Bravo! 

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Well, I thought I was the only one who found the silly tranny Beach Boys song titles to be rather not funny.

They're not even slightly funny. Incidentally, the word "tr*nny" is regarded by many trans people as roughly as offensive as many black people consider the n word. Given that at least one trans person has posted in this thread, it's probably an idea to avoid the term if you don't want to cause offence.

Exactly.