Goodbye, SmileySmile

[filledeplage]

Post deleted! 

 

[branaa09]

It sucks that he's gone now.  He had the great project he was working on and now he's gone! I loved his Beach Boys Love idea mix. I was excited when he said he was going to work on it more and add to it. I tried to add more to it a month ago on my own to see if it works. I do apologize in advance as I didn't like the Hello Goodbye mix I removed it from my version but, everything else was spot on! I might post it sometime or if anyone else would love to carry on his legacy and contribute to it. I copied the stream to get his source files to listen to it on my computer and in my car.

[Emily]

 It's all the folks knee-jerking to the personal and political instead of having respectful interactions. Including some of the posters praised above.

Yeah. It's this.
Wow. Some of you are unbelievable. Do you know how aggressive and rude you come off?  
The problem is not preferences or dislikes for Mike or Brian. It's the incredibly rude way some people on this board behave.
Some people rudely throw completely noncontributional comments that they know are off-topic flames.
Some people from the moment they enter a thread or from their first response to something they don't like are personally insulting and aggressive, and there are a few examples of this above on this thread. Either those people have zero self-awareness or they like to fight.
Throwing out an insult just as a smackback to something you don't like is every bit as unconstructive and troll-like as throwing in an irrelevant jab.
 Frankly there are some people on this board who come across as complete jerks.

If there's a conversation going on and you have nothing pertinent to say, don't say anything.  
If you disagree with someone or don't like their post but can't figure out how to express your disagreement without name-calling, don't say anything.
If you think someone's post is irrelevant, ignore it. It's not like they're sitting next to you in the back seat.

[SloopJohnB]

To quote Dylan after THAT speech....

"At least he didn't mention me."

 

Wasn't it Elton John?

EDIT 8:42 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZSAQX2uuUY

[Andrew G. Doe]

The problem with flouncing off in such a dramatic manner is that when you stage your return, you can look, well, pretty silly. Personal experience speaking here. 

[MarcellaHasDirtyFeet]

The problem with flouncing off in such a dramatic manner is that when you stage your return, you can look, well, pretty silly. Personal experience speaking here. 

Regardless of the way in which a poster makes their exit, and despite promises never to return, we're still always happy when an apostate returns to the fold. Now drink your Kool-Aid. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

Yes Reverend Jim...

[filledeplage]

The problem with flouncing off in such a dramatic manner is that when you stage your return, you can look, well, pretty silly. Personal experience speaking here. 

Ahhh - we can have a "welcome back party!"

No harm - no foul.  I can understand why he threw in the towel. 

All good.

[Debbie KL]

Rab's farewell has to be the most dignified exit I could imagine for this Board.  He actually expressed himself respectfully and with care for others here when most of us (me included), just get disgusted with the absurdity of so much of what is posted and leave (for a time or forever).  Wading through the bile and nasty comments of a bunch of people on a fan Board who are hostile to their acknowledged musical genius, his work and gifted band members struck me as a ridiculous process, but there was some good information and there were good people, so I bothered.  But the numbers of those worth reading are dwindling.

Those posting that Rab will be back may be mistaken unless the tone of this place changes.  Ugliness and hostility become boring, too.  Those accusing some of us of "boo-hooing" are missing the point.  We're primarily disgusted and exhausted by sad creatures who get some sort of thrill out of being hatefully provocative - then blaming the mods for a cesspool of content that they create.  The mods are here to enforce the rules of the place and as members can provide a small part of the content.  They have a thankless job.  If you want better content, create it.  If you want this to be a hostile free-for-all, knock yourselves out.  There are better places to go.

In the mean time, I'm going to another Board or two to see if I can find Rab and people like him there.  I want to hear his completed BBs-Love mash-up - so far it was amazing.  I'm feeling pretty certain it won't be that hard to find him and others I've also enjoyed here.  

[Pretty Funky]

To quote Dylan after THAT speech....

"At least he didn't mention me."

 

Wasn't it Elton John?

EDIT 8:42 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZSAQX2uuUY

Oops...My bad.

Was not in a situation to check at the time of posting.

Thanks SJB.

[RangeRoverA1]

2Emily: you quoted the wrong poster. If you go read his posts (& other posters you may like to read) - DonnyL was anything but aggressive & rude. There are people who know stuff about music & using just ears can ID a keyboard type or seeing just a little shot can tell what's guitar model. DonnyL is one of them. To say "Either those people have zero self-awareness or they like to fight" is arrogant. I esp. don't like the line "zero self-awareness". You are doing here exact same thing for what you question the posters. You could've disagreed without calling people "complete j-e-r-ks". If it's not an insult I don't know what is. Whereas, nobody here called names. Understand that people who whine about the board being so & so are annoying & killing the joy just as much as the real trolls. I don't know if you saw it but originally rab2591 started this thread in the main board. Now what's "irrelevant jab"? It's just a one poster's decision to leave - how is it related to the BBs? I'm glad the mods moved it in the Sandbox. Thanks to them.

[Emily]

2Emily: you quoted the wrong poster. If you go read his posts (& other posters you may like to read) - DonnyL was anything but aggressive & rude. There are people who know stuff about music & using just ears can ID a keyboard type or seeing just a little shot can tell what's guitar model. DonnyL is one of them. To say "Either those people have zero self-awareness or they like to fight" is arrogant. I esp. don't like the line "zero self-awareness". You are doing here exact same thing for what you question the posters. You could've disagreed without calling people "complete j-e-r-ks". If it's not an insult I don't know what is. Whereas, nobody here called names. Understand that people who whine about the board being so & so are annoying & killing the joy just as much as the real trolls. I don't know if you saw it but originally rab2591 started this thread in the main board. Now what's "irrelevant jab"? It's just a one poster's decision to leave - how is it related to the BBs? I'm glad the mods moved it in the Sandbox. Thanks to them.

-The first line of my post indicates that I'm agreeing with DonnyL. Sorry you missed that.
-I didn't call anyone a jerk, but I did say they come across as jerks, which is not the same. I actually think that some of the people who come across as jerks in these squabbles seem very nice, or funny, or helpful, or thoughtful, or informative, or insightful, etc. at other times, so I should not have said "complete jerks."
-That my post was a bit too aggressive, I accept. I will try better to keep cool. I know it's important. And I felt a little sorry for this post earlier. I lost my temper.
-But, as this thread is about the tone of the board, I don't feel it was out of line for me to talk about the tone of the board, which I find often to be rude, overly blunt and overly aggressive.
 

[Please delete my account]

To quote Dylan after THAT speech....

"At least he didn't mention me."

 

Wasn't it Elton John?

EDIT 8:42 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZSAQX2uuUY

Oops...My bad.

Was not in a situation to check at the time of posting.

Thanks SJB.

They both said variations on it I think.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Y'know, after this thread, I did some digging into rab's history to see if some big event Id missed had come up to make him leave. I came across the thread Mike's Band, apparently renamed from Mikes Whore Band or Mikes Band of Whores. I did something Im not proud of and wasted time reading thru the entire thing. I think, as ugly as that thread was, that it was totally necessary. I think it got a lot of repressed anger and frustration of most of those involved out into the open for better or worse. I was sad to see it ended so abruptly with so much undone about the very understandable demands of many of the participants. Im not familiar enough with OSD and SB to add my voice to those calling for their banning, but when you have a dozen or so members calling for the banning of one, two specific people then that to me seems significant. That's enough to warrant at least a reaction from the mods, if not banning then acknowledging the frustration and doing SOMETHING about it. I realize the thread is like 10 days old now, maybe something has been done that Im unaware of, w/e. But it was frustrating for me the misdirection and throwing the burden on us users to do something about trolling when IMO (and apparently that of many others) that job should land squarely on the mods. Im not trying to stir sh*t up again, or throw blame around on any particular mod, but the fact is we lost a valuable poster here now, largely due to those issues that were never resolved (as far as I can see) from back then. So...what's it gonna take? When is enough enough? I thought I was the only one who refrained from posting here on a regular basis because of the annoying cliques and bullshit. But going on that thread, it appears that my story is actually a fairly common one. I wont play backseat driver and say OSD should be banned, or this or that action should have been taken about him or anyone else personally, but I WILL say that that thread never should've been locked, nor this one moved to the sandbox. Yes, that original thread was TOXIC all around, but it was necessary to address all the bullshit thats been going on. I think the posters were pretty united in what they wanted--removal of certain troublemaking people and more active moderation--and they were silenced. It came to light that there are people afraid of speaking their minds for fear of being banned, which should never be the case. I think rab's thread, while perhaps melodramatic, was another opportunity for some of the issues with this board to be recognized and addressed and now that its been dumped on this less viewed side forum that wont happen.

I very well may be out of the loop. Maybe everyone's issues have been placated in the interrim, maybe theres another thread Im missing where such grievances are being aired again and discussed with the mods, but in any case I hope SOMETHING to that effect is happening. Its pretty undeniable this forum has suffered lately--Ive seen it myself firsthand as a newbie and can only imagine how those longtime posters feel. When I raised some of my grievances before about feeling bullied I was told "this is a big boys place, if you cant handle it leave" (obviously Im paraphrasing) but it seems like there's something to be said for more active moderation, or again, an Ignore button. I see the issue has its own thread here, and others shared my desire for one in that Mikes Band thread. I think its a great idea, and whoever we have to talk about that (the site's owner apparently?) we should. It really would solve a lot of problems, and wouldnt require the mods to take a more active hand which they seem unwilling to do.

[Micha]

we're still always happy when an apostate returns to the fold.

Umm... depends on who it is, actually. I would welcome rab back, anyway.

And I agree with Debbie and Emily.

I WILL say that that thread never should've been locked, nor this one moved to the sandbox. Yes, that original thread was TOXIC all around, but it was necessary to address all the bullshit thats been going on.

Agree with you that the thread should not have been locked with its issues not resolved (still love you Billy!) and that thread wasn't anywhere near as toxic as what went on when NPP was released and I took my leave.

Seems that the thread was a threat, and with a German accent you can't even tell those two words apart.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

we're still always happy when an apostate returns to the fold.

Umm... depends on who it is, actually. I would welcome rab back, anyway.

And I agree with Debbie and Emily.

I WILL say that that thread never should've been locked, nor this one moved to the sandbox. Yes, that original thread was TOXIC all around, but it was necessary to address all the bullshit thats been going on.

Agree with you that the thread should not have been locked with its issues not resolved (still love you Billy!) and that thread wasn't anywhere near as toxic as what went on when NPP was released and I took my leave.

Seems that the thread was a threat, and with a German accent you can't even tell those two words apart.

Honestly, I hate to agree with you--because I truly do respect Billy, GF and SMiLE Holland too--but thats really what it felt like to me. Like politicians calling in the police to break up the protest rather than actually addressing their grievances. Very shitty situation all around, Im sorry to say.

[Mike's Beard]

Y'know, after this thread, I did some digging into rab's history to see if some big event Id missed had come up to make him leave. I came across the thread Mike's Band, apparently renamed from Mikes Whore Band or Mikes Band of Whores. I did something Im not proud of and wasted time reading thru the entire thing. I think, as ugly as that thread was, that it was totally necessary. I think it got a lot of repressed anger and frustration of most of those involved out into the open for better or worse. I was sad to see it ended so abruptly with so much undone about the very understandable demands of many of the participants. Im not familiar enough with OSD and SB to add my voice to those calling for their banning, but when you have a dozen or so members calling for the banning of one, two specific people then that to me seems significant. That's enough to warrant at least a reaction from the mods, if not banning then acknowledging the frustration and doing SOMETHING about it. I realize the thread is like 10 days old now, maybe something has been done that Im unaware of, w/e. But it was frustrating for me the misdirection and throwing the burden on us users to do something about trolling when IMO (and apparently that of many others) that job should land squarely on the mods. Im not trying to stir sh*t up again, or throw blame around on any particular mod, but the fact is we lost a valuable poster here now, largely due to those issues that were never resolved (as far as I can see) from back then. So...what's it gonna take? When is enough enough? I thought I was the only one who refrained from posting here on a regular basis because of the annoying cliques and bullshit. But going on that thread, it appears that my story is actually a fairly common one. I wont play backseat driver and say OSD should be banned, or this or that action should have been taken about him or anyone else personally, but I WILL say that that thread never should've been locked, nor this one moved to the sandbox. Yes, that original thread was TOXIC all around, but it was necessary to address all the bullshit thats been going on. I think the posters were pretty united in what they wanted--removal of certain troublemaking people and more active moderation--and they were silenced. It came to light that there are people afraid of speaking their minds for fear of being banned, which should never be the case. I think rab's thread, while perhaps melodramatic, was another opportunity for some of the issues with this board to be recognized and addressed and now that its been dumped on this less viewed side forum that wont happen.

I very well may be out of the loop. Maybe everyone's issues have been placated in the interrim, maybe theres another thread Im missing where such grievances are being aired again and discussed with the mods, but in any case I hope SOMETHING to that effect is happening. Its pretty undeniable this forum has suffered lately--Ive seen it myself firsthand as a newbie and can only imagine how those longtime posters feel. When I raised some of my grievances before about feeling bullied I was told "this is a big boys place, if you cant handle it leave" (obviously Im paraphrasing) but it seems like there's something to be said for more active moderation, or again, an Ignore button. I see the issue has its own thread here, and others shared my desire for one in that Mikes Band thread. I think its a great idea, and whoever we have to talk about that (the site's owner apparently?) we should. It really would solve a lot of problems, and wouldnt require the mods to take a more active hand which they seem unwilling to do.

Mujan, Rab was/is clearly on the side of OSD in that thread.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Doesnt discount any of what I said. He left because of annoying cliques and the neverending controversy about Mike, and Brian. The annoying, unnecessary sides that have cropped up and pervade every thread these days. Cant say anything negative about Mike or the Club Kokomo crowd come in to accuse you of being a hater. Mention him at all and the Brianistas come in to bash him. In an effort to compensate for the lack of Mike appreciation or some other madness I dont get, there's annoying talking points about Brian's handlers and auto-tuning which shouldnt matter even if true. I wasnt trying to imply OSD ran him off the board--and Im not knowledgeable enough about OSD to take a side for or against him. All Im saying is we all seem to be on the same page about the annoying in-fighting on this board ruining every potentially cool conversation and it was SO REFRESHING to see it openly expressed by damn near everyone on one thread. And it was equally disappointing to see the same thread abruptly shut down with seemingly nothing done about the collective dissatisfaction.

[Cyncie]

Really, though. This is not a new problem. I read this board for a long time before I ever created an account, and my impression of it, even before the current trolling, was that it was awfully confrontational for a fan board about this particular band. I was foolish enough to think that established fans would be eager to share with newer fans or would enjoy conversing with them about their interest in this band's history, but any time someone new posted an opinion or asked a question, they were inundated with snarky comments from people who "knew more,: or they were caustically instructed to use the search feature.  I decided to take the plunge with C50 because, I figured, that put us all on more or less equal footing, discussion wise; but I've been careful about what kinds of things I post. I only share my opinions of the classic music in a general sense, since anything else gets shot down; and I stick to news, interviews and recent releases.

It's a shame, really. Brian wants his music to project love into the world. But, on his biggest fan board, that's certainly not happening. And, it hasn't been since I first discovered the place.

[Mike's Beard]

Between this board, youtube, the bloo and various blogs, I've noticed that some fans feel the need to fight various members ongoing disputes for them. Really, it has f*** ALL to do with any of us. Posters should give opinions on stuff by all means but they should leave this imagined 'personal connection' they have to band member X at the door and quit getting offended if someone see things in a different light to them. If they did, that would be 90% of the arguing gone.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

Really, though. This is not a new problem. I read this board for a long time before I ever created an account, and my impression of it, even before the current trolling, was that it was awfully confrontational for a fan board about this particular band. I was foolish enough to think that established fans would be eager to share with newer fans or would enjoy conversing with them about their interest in this band's history, but any time someone new posted an opinion or asked a question, they were inundated with snarky comments from people who "knew more,: or they were caustically instructed to use the search feature.  I decided to take the plunge with C50 because, I figured, that put us all on more or less equal footing, discussion wise; but I've been careful about what kinds of things I post. I only share my opinions of the classic music in a general sense, since anything else gets shot down; and I stick to news, interviews and recent releases.

It's a shame, really. Brian wants his music to project love into the world. But, on his biggest fan board, that's certainly not happening. And, it hasn't been since I first discovered the place.

And it never will, Cyncie,  as long as that attitude is allowed to spread and saturate this board like a fungus. Scores of posters have sought out greener, friendlier pastures because of someone who "knew more" Shame.

[Douchepool]

Well, when some believe that there is a plot to replace board leadership with "pro-Mike" people (seriously; I've never read a more retarded strawman in my life) maybe the best way to deal with it is to let people call out bullshit for what it is, point out the elephant in the room, and let it all fizzle out. I still don't think rab should have left for good as I value many of his posts; so do many others here. But hey, that's his life and his decision. The thread should have either been locked or moved to the Sandbox to continue to its natural end, which certainly would have come.

I do think both sides of the pro-Brian/Mike camps make valid points but also become annoying when the same points are made ad nauseam to the derailment of just about every thread. I don't think it's an issue that can really be solved by moderators without enacting policies that will actively police the content of messages, even if the content does not include stuff that wouldn't pass the Miller test. There should be free exchange of ideas as long as the board isn't constantly disrupted by it. However, a thicker skin is also going to be required on the part of ALL members on here. Don't like someone's opinion? That's life. We're not going to agree on everything; calling for people to be banned based on differences of opinion reeks of the special snowflake desire for a "safe space;" this is the real world and those people need to grow up and fast. If they're going to get that ruffled over what someone on the internet says, well, let's just hope for the best for them otherwise because they'll have a lot of trouble in life.

[Mike's Beard]

[Emily]

Well, when some believe that there is a plot to replace board leadership with "pro-Mike" people (seriously; I've never read a more retarded strawman in my life) maybe the best way to deal with it is to let people call out bullshit for what it is, point out the elephant in the room, and let it all fizzle out. I still don't think rab should have left for good as I value many of his posts; so do many others here. But hey, that's his life and his decision. The thread should have either been locked or moved to the Sandbox to continue to its natural end, which certainly would have come.

I do think both sides of the pro-Brian/Mike camps make valid points but also become annoying when the same points are made ad nauseam to the derailment of just about every thread. I don't think it's an issue that can really be solved by moderators without enacting policies that will actively police the content of messages, even if the content does not include stuff that wouldn't pass the Miller test. There should be free exchange of ideas as long as the board isn't constantly disrupted by it. However, a thicker skin is also going to be required on the part of ALL members on here. Don't like someone's opinion? That's life. We're not going to agree on everything; calling for people to be banned based on differences of opinion reeks of the special snowflake desire for a "safe space;" this is the real world and those people need to grow up and fast. If they're going to get that ruffled over what someone on the internet says, well, let's just hope for the best for them otherwise because they'll have a lot of trouble in life.

I agree with the second paragraph entirely.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

Y'know, after this thread, I did some digging into rab's history to see if some big event Id missed had come up to make him leave. I came across the thread Mike's Band, apparently renamed from Mikes Whore Band or Mikes Band of Whores. I did something Im not proud of and wasted time reading thru the entire thing. I think, as ugly as that thread was, that it was totally necessary. I think it got a lot of repressed anger and frustration of most of those involved out into the open for better or worse. I was sad to see it ended so abruptly with so much undone about the very understandable demands of many of the participants. Im not familiar enough with OSD and SB to add my voice to those calling for their banning, but when you have a dozen or so members calling for the banning of one, two specific people then that to me seems significant. That's enough to warrant at least a reaction from the mods, if not banning then acknowledging the frustration and doing SOMETHING about it. I realize the thread is like 10 days old now, maybe something has been done that Im unaware of, w/e. But it was frustrating for me the misdirection and throwing the burden on us users to do something about trolling when IMO (and apparently that of many others) that job should land squarely on the mods. Im not trying to stir sh*t up again, or throw blame around on any particular mod, but the fact is we lost a valuable poster here now, largely due to those issues that were never resolved (as far as I can see) from back then. So...what's it gonna take? When is enough enough? I thought I was the only one who refrained from posting here on a regular basis because of the annoying cliques and bullshit. But going on that thread, it appears that my story is actually a fairly common one. I wont play backseat driver and say OSD should be banned, or this or that action should have been taken about him or anyone else personally, but I WILL say that that thread never should've been locked, nor this one moved to the sandbox. Yes, that original thread was TOXIC all around, but it was necessary to address all the bullshit thats been going on. I think the posters were pretty united in what they wanted--removal of certain troublemaking people and more active moderation--and they were silenced. It came to light that there are people afraid of speaking their minds for fear of being banned, which should never be the case. I think rab's thread, while perhaps melodramatic, was another opportunity for some of the issues with this board to be recognized and addressed and now that its been dumped on this less viewed side forum that wont happen.

I very well may be out of the loop. Maybe everyone's issues have been placated in the interrim, maybe theres another thread Im missing where such grievances are being aired again and discussed with the mods, but in any case I hope SOMETHING to that effect is happening. Its pretty undeniable this forum has suffered lately--Ive seen it myself firsthand as a newbie and can only imagine how those longtime posters feel. When I raised some of my grievances before about feeling bullied I was told "this is a big boys place, if you cant handle it leave" (obviously Im paraphrasing) but it seems like there's something to be said for more active moderation, or again, an Ignore button. I see the issue has its own thread here, and others shared my desire for one in that Mikes Band thread. I think its a great idea, and whoever we have to talk about that (the site's owner apparently?) we should. It really would solve a lot of problems, and wouldnt require the mods to take a more active hand which they seem unwilling to do.

If you divide 10 members into the entire membership, it's an incredible minority. Just sayin'.