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Author Topic: Mike's band  (Read 105192 times)
The LEGENDARY OSD
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« Reply #375 on: December 06, 2015, 05:31:29 AM »

Yeah, Andrew wasn't targeting me. Only one who seemed to be was this beachball dude.

Thank you Billy.

And where were you to defend a friend who was being attacked and lied about? Silent.



 Respectfully, this isn't your conversation.

And that conversation was raging for a week before I or Billy even knew about it, or what was being said, and you said nothing to defend your friend against the false charges because the person making them was making your own points and playing your hand for you. That's real honor, there. No, hold the sarcasm, it's selfishness and disrespect.


I'm talking about the brief conversation between Billy & myself just now, as quoted above. Nothing to do with the thread on another board. You're arguing the wrong point, again.

I sense my presence here, on this thread, isn't going to help the cause at all, not to mention being tedious for the others, so if you want to discuss any further topics raised here, please PM me.

Nothing to hide, huh?  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #376 on: December 06, 2015, 05:33:39 AM »

I've gotten PM s from him.

And they were very informative and helpful, answering questions I'd had on this board.

Ditto. Only it was just the one PM. Indeed, most informative and helpful.
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« Reply #377 on: December 06, 2015, 05:35:28 AM »

Yeah, Andrew wasn't targeting me. Only one who seemed to be was this beachball dude.

Thank you Billy.

And where were you to defend a friend who was being attacked and lied about? Silent.



 Respectfully, this isn't your conversation.

And that conversation was raging for a week before I or Billy even knew about it, or what was being said, and you said nothing to defend your friend against the false charges because the person making them was making your own points and playing your hand for you. That's real honor, there. No, hold the sarcasm, it's selfishness and disrespect.


I'm talking about the brief conversation between Billy & myself just now, as quoted above. Nothing to do with the thread on another board. You're arguing the wrong point, again.

I sense my presence here, on this thread, isn't going to help the cause at all, not to mention being tedious for the others, so if you want to discuss any further topics raised here, please PM me.

Nothing to hide, huh?  Roll Eyes

Or....y'know...wanting to settle a private dispute privately and not clog up a thread with dirty laundry. The hypocrisy among some of you here is crazy. So it's totally damning and horrible to criticize someone yet grandstanding and encouraging a witchhunt on this forum is ok?
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Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
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« Reply #378 on: December 06, 2015, 05:39:32 AM »

I've gotten PM s from him.

And they were very informative and helpful, answering questions I'd had on this board.

Ditto. Only it was just the one PM. Indeed, most informative and helpful.


Same here - always informative, sometimes revealing (in a good way - no photos!) though we've recently moaned together about the state of the nation here; in fact in recent weeks I've had more PMs from several posters on that topic, which is a new thing for me.

Never anything manipulative or "cancerous" though. Just people sharing similar views.

That said, this thread has become far more personal than any Personal Message I've ever received from anyone.

As for ignoring it, I find that difficult, like I find it difficult to rubberneck road accidents as I drive past, or naked ladies who appear on my TV screen unexpectedly. It's human nature.
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« Reply #379 on: December 06, 2015, 06:30:12 AM »

I will only say that moderating a message board is a difficult task indeed. It demands a lot of self-control and balance. Guitarfool seems like a great guy, his posts are well-informed and I've learned a big deal reading them. Nevertheless, he has often showed an obsessive quality, an ever-present tendency to take things personally and not being able to let go. The latter traits are a hinder to any moderation attempt, as he often ends up in the center of the mayhem he's supposed to put a stop to.

Re-opening a thread in order to channel one's own grudges has nothing to with the activity of a moderator. It is against building a peaceful environment and mature discussion. It is all about using the tools a moderator has access to in order to make a personal statement.

Moderators have crossed the line and paid for it in the past. I think we're witnessing yet another line-crossing.
And it is doing this board no good.
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« Reply #380 on: December 06, 2015, 06:52:42 AM »

Andrew Doe is cancerous.

I have received some of his manipulative PMs, trying to push me in the direction he wants. I've talked to others who have received similar messages, as well as those who have recurved threatening messages.

All of this is him being manipulative and horrible, raking GFs name across the coals because he seems to be one of the only people here who understands the extent of AGDs bullying. Anyone who's been paying attention should be able to see this.
Those are pretty strong words, Woodstock.  When people (especially young people who did not grow up contemporaneous to the music) sign on, with a limited context (I am not being ageist.) and just deal with the music, it is a great thing, but historic context with regard to art and music and philosophy, go hand in hand.  The great salons in the early 19th century France had musicians, artists, novelists and philosophers, all of whom influenced each other.  George Sand and Chopin, just as an example.  

Lurking on this high voltage board for a while before signing in and posting might be a good idea to learn who the "players" are and how to deal with them. Being polite is first.  Some do not "suffer fools gladly."  Nor should they.  There are some amazingly talented people here and it is a privilege to listen to them.  

But, Andrew and I have gone "ten rounds" and in communicating with him, my experience is that Andrew responds well to well-sourced information, and points that are backed up with evidence.  This forum is not for the weak-kneed.  I have no idea what the exchange was, and it isn't my business, but realizing that he is an "author" - and I don't have his writings, but find his website pretty reliable and I do respect his scholarship.  

As always, for me, I strive not to get caught up in the factions on this board... The overall big picture of the music legacy is just too important to me.  Brian, Dennis, & Carl
« Last Edit: December 06, 2015, 06:53:35 AM by filledeplage » Logged
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« Reply #381 on: December 06, 2015, 07:20:55 AM »

I will only say that moderating a message board is a difficult task indeed. It demands a lot of self-control and balance. Guitarfool seems like a great guy, his posts are well-informed and I've learned a big deal reading them. Nevertheless, he has often showed an obsessive quality, an ever-present tendency to take things personally and not being able to let go. The latter traits are a hinder to any moderation attempt, as he often ends up in the center of the mayhem he's supposed to put a stop to.

Re-opening a thread in order to channel one's own grudges has nothing to with the activity of a moderator. It is against building a peaceful environment and mature discussion. It is all about using the tools a moderator has access to in order to make a personal statement.

Moderators have crossed the line and paid for it in the past. I think we're witnessing yet another line-crossing.
And it is doing this board no good.

I hate to throw him under the bus, because I do agree GF is a pretty ok guy from what Ive seen. Like AGD, Ive gotten a very nice, thorough and informative PM from him with some of the best discussion of SMiLE Ive seen. I dont mean this as a personal barb, but Ive been shaking my head reading these past 2 pages of posts. I was very happy to see my criticisms on the sandbox answered and this thread reopened, only to be crushed that it was only to complain about borderline-irrelevant posts from another forum and this unwarranted public shaming of someone who seems to me a very valuable member here. Lay off AGD. So what if he aired some grievances with others? That is his right and should not be dragged onto the forum for everyone to be expected to piss on him for. Nothing he said was slanderous or personal as far as I can see. He has legitimate criticisms with how this board is moderated--and as far as I can tell, so do most of us--and he's said the same here as well as there. He's offered to sort the issue out in private and a mod of all people is insisting it be aired in public. This is not professional behavior, it makes the entire board look life a hateful, trashy, uninviting place and its not necessary. It should be the job of the mods to keep things like that off the site and handle them as gracefully as possible, not dive right in and be a driving force of drama. The rest of us should not be made to pick sides; if his opinion which hes entitled to hurt your feelings, talk to him in private, but you have no right to bring it to the forefront here and expect us to flame him for your sake. I hate to say it, GF, but the irony is your actions these past 2 pages have only proven that a lot of what was said in those posts do in fact have a kernel of truth to them if not more.

Im sure Im gonna get banned now, or accused of slander, or some other ridiculousness, but it needs to be said.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2015, 07:22:30 AM by Mujan, B@st@rd of a Blue Wizard » Logged

Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
[
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« Reply #382 on: December 06, 2015, 07:49:45 AM »

Andrew, fight your battles in the open so people can see them and stop hiding behind private messages. Or are you afraid of exposing what has been going on and is still going on?

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« Reply #383 on: December 06, 2015, 08:10:03 AM »

Andrew Doe is cancerous.

I have received some of his manipulative PMs, trying to push me in the direction he wants. I've talked to others who have received similar messages, as well as those who have recurved threatening messages.

All of this is him being manipulative and horrible, raking GFs name across the coals because he seems to be one of the only people here who understands the extent of AGDs bullying. Anyone who's been paying attention should be able to see this.
Those are pretty strong words, Woodstock.  When people (especially young people who did not grow up contemporaneous to the music) sign on, with a limited context (I am not being ageist.) and just deal with the music, it is a great thing, but historic context with regard to art and music and philosophy, go hand in hand.  The great salons in the early 19th century France had musicians, artists, novelists and philosophers, all of whom influenced each other.  George Sand and Chopin, just as an example.  

Lurking on this high voltage board for a while before signing in and posting might be a good idea to learn who the "players" are and how to deal with them. Being polite is first.  Some do not "suffer fools gladly."  Nor should they.  There are some amazingly talented people here and it is a privilege to listen to them.  

But, Andrew and I have gone "ten rounds" and in communicating with him, my experience is that Andrew responds well to well-sourced information, and points that are backed up with evidence.  This forum is not for the weak-kneed.  I have no idea what the exchange was, and it isn't my business, but realizing that he is an "author" - and I don't have his writings, but find his website pretty reliable and I do respect his scholarship.  

As always, for me, I strive not to get caught up in the factions on this board... The overall big picture of the music legacy is just too important to me.  Brian, Dennis, & Carl

Nothing you say has ever made sense, sorry
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« Reply #384 on: December 06, 2015, 08:11:24 AM »

Andrew, fight your battles in the open so people can see them and stop hiding behind private messages. Or are you afraid of exposing what has been going on and is still going on?



Hes pathetic like that. And like I've said, cancerous, and mean to people.
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« Reply #385 on: December 06, 2015, 08:13:52 AM »

Wow, what a pile-on. I can't believe you guys are painting GF as some unbalanced thin-skinned vicious control freak. If that were the case half of you would be banned from this little brouhaha. Are you? No. He's just defending himself, explaining his side, highlights what he thinks - fairly reasonably - is hypocrisy from the other side. Nobody looks very honorable here. Can you guys maybe ease off now? You've all gotten your say and taken your shots. Recycled months worth of grudges... I don't think he deserves it, he's contributed reams of text to this site and gloriously geeky and intricate recording information and production minutiae. I love reading that stuff! It's wonderful having someone with a knack for technical details and communicating decently about them to non-musos. He bends over backwards to explain his reasoning and engages with disagreements in a way I'd never fucking bother with. I'd throw my hands up and walk away. He's a good guy and you're pushing him, prodding him, trying to get him to quit. I mean, that much is obvious.

You'd feel pretty defensive too if a small group of people were badmouthing you all over the net and trying to have you replaced. Ultimately, over what? That posts making fun of Mike Love are allowed to be up? That's the great cause? To purge SB/OSD and pave the way for The Great Mike Love Q&A of 2016? C'mon, we know how that'll go. India, solo album, I haven't watched Love & Mercy yet, Beach Boys voted over Beatles in Melody Maker, etc.

Enough. Stop piling on. All the mods here have done their best dealing with all of us infantile, wisecracking, pompous jerks and rules lawyers. It's easy to make mistakes sometimes, to rub people the wrong way. We've got a lot of nice people here, but a lot of utter bastards. I know, I'm a bastard too. But Craig? He doesn't deserve this at ALL from you guys. Just load up Hickey's thing and filter out the "trolls." Done.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2015, 08:27:03 AM by ontor pertawst » Logged
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« Reply #386 on: December 06, 2015, 08:25:07 AM »

Andrew can come clean anytime if he chooses. Despite what some are saying to defend him, despite the latest attempt to find a scapegoat and scrub that person or persons off the board, Andrew knows what he did and others know too. It's his call if he wants to continue on this mission of his, or just man up and come clean. You can't hide the truth forever.

So again, was all that calling for respectful interactions among board members a joke, was it complete crap, or what? No one with a sense of morality or even a sense of right or wrong yells from the highest rooftop in town how much we need to respect one another, then proceeds to act like a coward and start ripping people apart on other forums.

If that's the kind of board you want, you know now who holds the spare set of keys. .
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« Reply #387 on: December 06, 2015, 08:26:44 AM »

Wow, what a pile-on. I can't believe you guys are painting GF as some unbalanced thin-skinned vicious control freak. If that were the case half of you would be banned from this little brouhaha. Are you? No. He's just defending himself, explaining his side, highlights what he thinks - fairly reasonably - is hypocrisy from the other side. Nobody looks very honorable here. Can you guys maybe ease off now? You've all gotten your say and taken your shots. I don't think he deserves it, he's contributed reams of text to this site and gloriously geeky and intricate recording information and production minutiae.

You'd feel pretty defensive too if a small group of people were badmouthing you all over the net and trying to have you replaced. Ultimately, over what? That posts making fun of Mike Love are allowed to be up? That's the great cause? To purge SB/OSD and pave the way for The Great Mike Love Q&A of 2016? C'mon, we know how that'll go. India, solo album, I haven't watched Love & Mercy yet, Beach Boys voted over Beatles in Melody Maker, etc.
ontor - there is a executive board that controls this forum.  GF is not alone.  I hope you are not so audacious as to include me in what you've said.  I support GF, always have, and we are lucky to have his expertise, and I have learned much from him. I enjoy his posts.  We don't always agree but through "adult" discussion reach common ground.  And are not polarized.

As a board, there needs to be enforcement of the rules of the road.  We all agreed to the rules-of-the-road when we joined.  Why bother to have rules if they are not enforced?

Those of us who make every effort to abide by the rules, whether it be posters or band members, and "disagree without attacking" - and are punished indirectly by having to tolerate this bad behavior.  It is driving good posters like "rab" off the forum at a time when such good things are happening in the BB/BW sphere, such as the L & M movie, the activism that is emanating from it and the final recognition of how great this music always was when it was trashed continuously in the late 60's and early 70's.  
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« Reply #388 on: December 06, 2015, 08:35:59 AM »

Wow, what a pile-on. I can't believe you guys are painting GF as some unbalanced thin-skinned vicious control freak. If that were the case half of you would be banned from this little brouhaha. Are you? No. He's just defending himself, explaining his side, highlights what he thinks - fairly reasonably - is hypocrisy from the other side. Nobody looks very honorable here. Can you guys maybe ease off now? You've all gotten your say and taken your shots. I don't think he deserves it, he's contributed reams of text to this site and gloriously geeky and intricate recording information and production minutiae.

You'd feel pretty defensive too if a small group of people were badmouthing you all over the net and trying to have you replaced. Ultimately, over what? That posts making fun of Mike Love are allowed to be up? That's the great cause? To purge SB/OSD and pave the way for The Great Mike Love Q&A of 2016? C'mon, we know how that'll go. India, solo album, I haven't watched Love & Mercy yet, Beach Boys voted over Beatles in Melody Maker, etc.
ontor - there is a executive board that controls this forum.  GF is not alone.  I hope you are not so audacious as to include me in what you've said.  I support GF, always have, and we are lucky to have his expertise, and I have learned much from him. I enjoy his posts.  We don't always agree but through "adult" discussion reach common ground.  And are not polarized.

As a board, there needs to be enforcement of the rules of the road.  We all agreed to the rules-of-the-road when we joined.  Why bother to have rules if they are not enforced?

Those of us who make every effort to abide by the rules, whether it be posters or band members, and "disagree without attacking" - and are punished indirectly by having to tolerate this bad behavior.  It is driving good posters like "rab" off the forum at a time when such good things are happening in the BB/BW sphere, such as the L & M movie, the activism that is emanating from it and the final recognition of how great this music always was when it was trashed continuously in the late 60's and early 70's.  

Here is the 100% truth. Andrew has received and has continued to post under what amounts to a free pass, a look-the-other-way free pass. It's been hanging over the board for several years. If another poster had violated board rules as he did just this past year, they'd be banned for life because his account had already been banned twice before, because of the board's three-strikes rule for bans.

So when someone who has somehow been skating by on that free pass starts accusing moderators of playing favorites, issuing free passes to excuse bad behavior, and turning a blind eye toward the rule-breaking, it's more than a tad hypocritical bordering on complete B.S., wouldn;t you say?

Again, Andrew can step up and admit what's been going on, or he can continue sending PM's and hiding behind those, and trrashing me to other boards and forums instead.

All i have is the truth, and that free ban pass is only the tip of the iceberg.

If it didn't reach a point where I was personally attacked on another forum and repeatedly targeted here in an attempt to get rid of me and clear the path according to Andrew's wishes, NONE of this would have happened. Andrew chose to do this.

if the board rules were followed to the letter, he'd be gone as of earlier this year. But he's still here.
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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
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« Reply #389 on: December 06, 2015, 08:39:00 AM »

Andrew, fight your battles in the open so people can see them and stop hiding behind private messages. Or are you afraid of exposing what has been going on and is still going on?



Hes pathetic like that. And like I've said, cancerous, and mean to people.

  Hello
« Last Edit: December 06, 2015, 09:01:19 AM by The LEGENDARY OSD » Logged

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« Reply #390 on: December 06, 2015, 08:52:48 AM »

Weird how much PM stuff is going on  Shocked ...I actually think OSD would be tolerable on his own (at least he is original), it's the pointless cheer-leading after every post that does my head in.

P.S AGD is kind of a jerk  Grin  but provides great knowledge for the board. GF is a good mod (though I really don't see much to take offense from re: those BB Britain posts). Honestly from the outside (and never having received any pm's re this stuff) the board is in good shape apart from the constant boring derailing of threads regarding Mike.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2015, 09:43:03 AM by My Brother Woody » Logged

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« Reply #391 on: December 06, 2015, 09:24:43 AM »

Real sad thing about this is that we have two seriously knowledgeable members whose posts I usually admire (except at the moment), but the argument has brought out all the usual parasites who contribute f*** all to this board in terms of actual BB knowledge but who get their jollies from stirring. Bring back Mikie.
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« Reply #392 on: December 06, 2015, 09:29:13 AM »

Wow, what a pile-on. I can't believe you guys are painting GF as some unbalanced thin-skinned vicious control freak. If that were the case half of you would be banned from this little brouhaha. Are you? No. He's just defending himself, explaining his side, highlights what he thinks - fairly reasonably - is hypocrisy from the other side. Nobody looks very honorable here. Can you guys maybe ease off now? You've all gotten your say and taken your shots. I don't think he deserves it, he's contributed reams of text to this site and gloriously geeky and intricate recording information and production minutiae.

You'd feel pretty defensive too if a small group of people were badmouthing you all over the net and trying to have you replaced. Ultimately, over what? That posts making fun of Mike Love are allowed to be up? That's the great cause? To purge SB/OSD and pave the way for The Great Mike Love Q&A of 2016? C'mon, we know how that'll go. India, solo album, I haven't watched Love & Mercy yet, Beach Boys voted over Beatles in Melody Maker, etc.
ontor - there is a executive board that controls this forum.  GF is not alone.  I hope you are not so audacious as to include me in what you've said.  I support GF, always have, and we are lucky to have his expertise, and I have learned much from him. I enjoy his posts.  We don't always agree but through "adult" discussion reach common ground.  And are not polarized.

As a board, there needs to be enforcement of the rules of the road.  We all agreed to the rules-of-the-road when we joined.  Why bother to have rules if they are not enforced?

Those of us who make every effort to abide by the rules, whether it be posters or band members, and "disagree without attacking" - and are punished indirectly by having to tolerate this bad behavior.  It is driving good posters like "rab" off the forum at a time when such good things are happening in the BB/BW sphere, such as the L & M movie, the activism that is emanating from it and the final recognition of how great this music always was when it was trashed continuously in the late 60's and early 70's.  

Here is the 100% truth. Andrew has received and has continued to post under what amounts to a free pass, a look-the-other-way free pass. It's been hanging over the board for several years. If another poster had violated board rules as he did just this past year, they'd be banned for life because his account had already been banned twice before, because of the board's three-strikes rule for bans.

So when someone who has somehow been skating by on that free pass starts accusing moderators of playing favorites, issuing free passes to excuse bad behavior, and turning a blind eye toward the rule-breaking, it's more than a tad hypocritical bordering on complete B.S., wouldn;t you say?

Again, Andrew can step up and admit what's been going on, or he can continue sending PM's and hiding behind those, and trrashing me to other boards and forums instead.

All i have is the truth, and that free ban pass is only the tip of the iceberg.

If it didn't reach a point where I was personally attacked on another forum and repeatedly targeted here in an attempt to get rid of me and clear the path according to Andrew's wishes, NONE of this would have happened. Andrew chose to do this.

if the board rules were followed to the letter, he'd be gone as of earlier this year. But he's still here.
GF - most posters have absolutely no knowledge about what goes on behind the scenes, especially if some of the honored guests, etc., hold a certain status as an author, reviewer, promoter or run a BB/BW music-related forum.  

Most who come here just want to be able to discuss the music and delight that it has lasted as long as we have in life.  LOL  

It is becoming like a soap opera, airing the "dirty laundry."  If stuff happens behind-the-scenes then it should be handled behind-the-scenes, as adults or find someone to maybe mediate the dispute so we can have some modicum of peace and not lose this great knowledge bank.  

Most posters don't care about this level of behind-the-scenes stuff and have no control over it but those who conform their behavior to the rules, and are turned off by those who brazenly flout the obvious rules (I am not talking about PM's that every poster is not privy to) and frankly make a mockery of having any kind of standards.   Just sayin'  Wink
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« Reply #393 on: December 06, 2015, 09:30:33 AM »

Wow, what a pile-on. I can't believe you guys are painting GF as some unbalanced thin-skinned vicious control freak. If that were the case half of you would be banned from this little brouhaha. Are you? No. He's just defending himself, explaining his side, highlights what he thinks - fairly reasonably - is hypocrisy from the other side. Nobody looks very honorable here. Can you guys maybe ease off now? You've all gotten your say and taken your shots. I don't think he deserves it, he's contributed reams of text to this site and gloriously geeky and intricate recording information and production minutiae.

You'd feel pretty defensive too if a small group of people were badmouthing you all over the net and trying to have you replaced. Ultimately, over what? That posts making fun of Mike Love are allowed to be up? That's the great cause? To purge SB/OSD and pave the way for The Great Mike Love Q&A of 2016? C'mon, we know how that'll go. India, solo album, I haven't watched Love & Mercy yet, Beach Boys voted over Beatles in Melody Maker, etc.
ontor - there is a executive board that controls this forum.  GF is not alone.  I hope you are not so audacious as to include me in what you've said.  I support GF, always have, and we are lucky to have his expertise, and I have learned much from him. I enjoy his posts.  We don't always agree but through "adult" discussion reach common ground.  And are not polarized.

As a board, there needs to be enforcement of the rules of the road.  We all agreed to the rules-of-the-road when we joined.  Why bother to have rules if they are not enforced?

Those of us who make every effort to abide by the rules, whether it be posters or band members, and "disagree without attacking" - and are punished indirectly by having to tolerate this bad behavior.  It is driving good posters like "rab" off the forum at a time when such good things are happening in the BB/BW sphere, such as the L & M movie, the activism that is emanating from it and the final recognition of how great this music always was when it was trashed continuously in the late 60's and early 70's.  

Exactly this, and Im not too pleased with this talk of "bitching" every time someone dares to criticize the way things are here or say we ought to do better. No one should be made to feel unwanted or like theyre a nuisance for raising issues theyve had--and I think it ought to be the job of the mods to answer those criticisms (assuming theyre fair/reasonable) and not brush it off as "bitching" and throw it back at us to 'man up' and "is that the kinda board you want, where we police people?" It just feels like victim blaming, shifting responsibility and creating an even more unwelcoming atmosphere.

This witch hunt against AGD feels like still more diversion from the original beefs talked about here. First its this off-topic lecture about PMs when people are unanimously calling for the banning of OSD (and again, personally I dont know enough about him to say thats warranted, but it seems to be what people want) and now its taking off-topic posts from another forum and bringing them here for us all to point fingers and shame. Im just gonna say it--I think *some* not all, but *some* of those outside forum posts raised a legit point of contention, that being the mods should decidedly NOT be thin-skinned or involve themselves in personal tiffs. They should be as neutral as possible, and deal with personal drama by being mediators or else telling the involved parties to take it outside. How ironic that a poster did EXACTLY THAT only for their outside communications to be brought here and try to turn us against him. Nothing AGD said was inflammatory and much of it has been proven true by this overreaction and insistence on a public brawl over it. Its an absolute sh*t show, no other way to say it, and it should not be something a mod of all people takes part in. I want to know where this passionate response from a mod was when I was being openly harassed on here. I wanna know why fighting with AGD is higher priority than answering the will of the posters. Im not interested in watching a public takedown of someone for having the audacity to think things are slipping here. Personally, I agree, and Ive said as much here as well as among other people outside the forum. Are my outside correspondences going to be posted here one day too to be gawked at and used to condemn me? Again, the irony is you consider this slander GF, but your reaction actually proves that *some* of those criticisms do in fact have merit to them.

Now, Im not trying to shame anyone myself. And I too realize what a thankless task being a mod is. But neither you nor anyone else here should be above criticism, and I think for a mod to take a personal fight public and encourage posters to take part is about as worthy of criticism as anything I can think of. Youre always asking "what kinda forum we want this to be" and I think Ive outlined decently well what I would expect. AGD's points sound pretty reasonable to me too. Honestly tho, Im kinda starting to have my fill of this place myself either way. We just lost a valued poster and now some of you seem determined to drive another one away over petty personal squabbles. We have a significant number of posters expressing discontent who are not being heard, and one or two troublemakers running around with impunity. We have people admitting en mass theyve felt unwelcome here and dont post as often as they would because of the toxic atmosphere. We had to have a member finally institute an ignore button that shouldnt have been necessary and/or shouldve been done officially ages ago. And what's being done to improve the undeniably unfriendly nature of this board? Very little that I can see. In fact, I have to say, you seem to be making things worse whether you mean to or not.

Im sorry to have to say unkind things about you, and I hope you dont take it too personally. Im not trying to turn the witchhunt around on you so much as stop it altogether.
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Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
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guitarfool2002
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« Reply #394 on: December 06, 2015, 09:42:50 AM »

Should the rules of the board be strictly enforced across the board, or are some here comfortable with sets of rules being bent and shaped specific to apply to certain posters over others?

I ask because if the people calling for the rules to be enforced more definitively really want that, by rights and according to rules Andrew should have been banned some time ago, and as a third ban it would have been a lifetime ban. But he's still here.
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« Reply #395 on: December 06, 2015, 09:47:02 AM »

This isn't the issue as most here perceive it. Please address the issues.
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« Reply #396 on: December 06, 2015, 09:47:22 AM »

Things guitarfool has complained about in this thread:
AGD saying things in private, where other people can't see them.
AGD saying things in public, where other people can see them.

Neither of these things seem, to me, to have anything to do with anyone else on the board. If AGD's been saying things in PMs that go against the board rules, that's between him, the people he's PMd, and the moderators. If he's been saying things that guitarfool objects to on another board, that's between him, guitarfool, and the people on the other board.
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« Reply #397 on: December 06, 2015, 09:47:57 AM »

Should the rules of the board be strictly enforced across the board, or are some here comfortable with sets of rules being bent and shaped specific to apply to certain posters over others?

I ask because if the people calling for the rules to be enforced more definitively really want that, by rights and according to rules Andrew should have been banned some time ago, and as a third ban it would have been a lifetime ban. But he's still here.


Same rules for everyone IMO. Presumably you can be 100% certain that PMs being forwarded have not been changed in any way? as I think someone said earlier that mods do not have access to pm's.
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« Reply #398 on: December 06, 2015, 09:48:52 AM »

Instead of all the bellyaching, why don't all the mods get together, create a new set of rules or rehash/refresh the old ones with a clear system of warnings - a new baseline, if you like - and go from there. Start off by closing this, because it's going around in circles and the whining isn't befitting anyone with intelligence and, as I said, it's feeding the parasites.
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« Reply #399 on: December 06, 2015, 09:50:47 AM »

Should the rules of the board be strictly enforced across the board, or are some here comfortable with sets of rules being bent and shaped specific to apply to certain posters over others?

I ask because if the people calling for the rules to be enforced more definitively really want that, by rights and according to rules Andrew should have been banned some time ago, and as a third ban it would have been a lifetime ban. But he's still here.


Then that's on you as a mod, it wasn't deemed ban worthy then so why are you making a drama of it now? You are still ducking the issue as to why two posters are given free reign to threadcrap on every topic.
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