Mike and Bruce - Pre 2012

[HeyJude]

All this "a vote never happened" stuff is laughable. Using any of this as justification to *not* blame Mike is kind of like telling your spouse that *you* want a divorce, and your spouse wants to stay married, and then when asked later on why you didn't want to stay married, just saying "well, we never actually got around to having a discussion to stay married", because you don't want to sound like the dick that called the marriage off.

In other words, cause and effect are being reversed. The reunion didn't fail to continue because "no votes or discussion" happened. No votes or discussion happened because the reunion was already dead, and it was dead because one member had already started booking separate shows and was making no overtures to continue.

Saying the reunion didn't continue because they never had a meeting to do just that is like me saying I don't have ten million dollars in my bank account because nobody has deposited ten million dollars into my account. Technically correct, but COMPLETELY missing the point.

Howie Edelson's posts on this topic have been the definitive word on the subject in my opinion (and his comments actually make logical sense too). As he mentioned in one post, Mike essentially *quit* the Beach Boys in 2012. Mike has owned the literal decision to quit the reunion. Maybe we can somehow get Mike to let Cam know.

[KDS]

Maybe Brian hid a message to Mike in Pacific Coast Highway when he sang

My Life
I'm better off alone
My Life
I'm better on my own

Mike took that to heart and split the band. 

[Emily]

Cam, are you thinking that, had offers been presented and gotten to a vote and had BW and AJ voted (and Carl's estate too I guess to form a majority) to continue touring in 2013, that ML would've agreed to it? Do you think that he would've agreed to it right out anyway, of course if the offer/set up was decent? Obviously I'm asking for speculation and if that's not comfortable, don't answer and no offense would be taken.
To anyone who might have an answer, what happens if someone does not want to tour but there's a vote deciding to tour? Obviously no one can be forced to tour against their will. Would that person be fined or penalized in some way for not touring? That seems weird, so I'm guessing that a vote would be on whether the BBs as an organization would do the tour, then each individual decides whether or not to participate. (?)

I'd guess that they would discuss and come to an agreement, probably to do it again.  It might have been in 2014 instead of 2013, some or all  of them might have gotten more or less of this and that or just gone along again, they all assumed they would discuss it after C50 (I presume Al did, Brian and Mike said they did at the time).  Apparently the "bad press" around the end of C50 kept promoters from even offering anything to discuss, anyway Mike has said no written offers came their way and the band never had a discussion of the offers.

None of us really knows how BRI works, so speculation.  If someone were out voted I presume they would be a good corporate citizen and go along with the majority according to the vote.  There is a long tradition of sitting out tours, so if they sat out instead I suppose the same rules as in the past would apply, in other words (according to court records) they share the profits whether they tour or not but those who tour get a higher percentage. Something like that.

Thanks Cam.
Perhaps this debate comes down to whether a poster is considering the C50 tour as one discrete event and discussion for another as another event vs. considering it all one big event.
It seems that (without arguing about the quality of his reasoning either way) it was Mike's impetus that ended C50. But perhaps they all lacked whatever it took to get together again. Maybe?

[HeyJude]

Cam, are you thinking that, had offers been presented and gotten to a vote and had BW and AJ voted (and Carl's estate too I guess to form a majority) to continue touring in 2013, that ML would've agreed to it? Do you think that he would've agreed to it right out anyway, of course if the offer/set up was decent? Obviously I'm asking for speculation and if that's not comfortable, don't answer and no offense would be taken.
To anyone who might have an answer, what happens if someone does not want to tour but there's a vote deciding to tour? Obviously no one can be forced to tour against their will. Would that person be fined or penalized in some way for not touring? That seems weird, so I'm guessing that a vote would be on whether the BBs as an organization would do the tour, then each individual decides whether or not to participate. (?)

I'd guess that they would discuss and come to an agreement, probably to do it again.  It might have been in 2014 instead of 2013, some or all  of them might have gotten more or less of this and that or just gone along again, they all assumed they would discuss it after C50 (I presume Al did, Brian and Mike said they did at the time).  Apparently the "bad press" around the end of C50 kept promoters from even offering anything to discuss, anyway Mike has said no written offers came their way and the band never had a discussion of the offers.

None of us really knows how BRI works, so speculation.  If someone were out voted I presume they would be a good corporate citizen and go along with the majority according to the vote.  There is a long tradition of sitting out tours, so if they sat out instead I suppose the same rules as in the past would apply, in other words (according to court records) they share the profits whether they tour or not but those who tour get a higher percentage. Something like that.

Thanks Cam.
Perhaps this debate comes down to whether a poster is considering the C50 tour as one discrete event and discussion for another as another event vs. considering it all one big event.
It seems that (without arguing about the quality of his reasoning either way) it was Mike's impetus that ended C50. But perhaps they all lacked whatever it took to get together again. Maybe?

Well, the infrastructure was all there and in place to continue, and Brian and Al (and Dave) wanted to do more.

I'd say it's poor management (which they can all be blamed for), and Mike's decision that led specifically to not getting more reunion shows/activities in 2013.

No doubt, C50 was a "fragile" item as Rolling Stone put it, but even with bad (non) management and everything else, it was working. Evidence indicates it may not have survived forever, but it likely wouldn't have imploded in late 2012 had Mike been agreeable to continue with the reunion lineup.

It appears Al, and even Brian surprisingly, came to realize why all of the guys working together was a unique thing worth trying to continue. That Mike seems to put all the peripheral stuff (both his stated reasons and what we might guess are other reasons) above *that*, is part of the reason people are annoyed by him.

The thing didn't fall apart because BRI didn't hold a meeting (keeping in mind BRI didn't even run the tour). It fell apart because Mike chose his deal (lots of touring with a diluted band) over taking advantage of Brian Wilson *wanting* to be a Beach Boy again.

I actually wish Brian had (or still would) just call Mike's bluff and say, "Okay, let's do this 'alone in a room' thing", and then see how agreeable Mike is to dropping his band and reuniting again full-time. On-site reports of Mike making no apparent attempts to write with Brian during the 2012 tour suggest the "writing alone with Brian" thing, while surely one of the items that rankles Mike, would not have saved the reunion.

[KDS]

Cam, are you thinking that, had offers been presented and gotten to a vote and had BW and AJ voted (and Carl's estate too I guess to form a majority) to continue touring in 2013, that ML would've agreed to it? Do you think that he would've agreed to it right out anyway, of course if the offer/set up was decent? Obviously I'm asking for speculation and if that's not comfortable, don't answer and no offense would be taken.
To anyone who might have an answer, what happens if someone does not want to tour but there's a vote deciding to tour? Obviously no one can be forced to tour against their will. Would that person be fined or penalized in some way for not touring? That seems weird, so I'm guessing that a vote would be on whether the BBs as an organization would do the tour, then each individual decides whether or not to participate. (?)

I'd guess that they would discuss and come to an agreement, probably to do it again.  It might have been in 2014 instead of 2013, some or all  of them might have gotten more or less of this and that or just gone along again, they all assumed they would discuss it after C50 (I presume Al did, Brian and Mike said they did at the time).  Apparently the "bad press" around the end of C50 kept promoters from even offering anything to discuss, anyway Mike has said no written offers came their way and the band never had a discussion of the offers.

None of us really knows how BRI works, so speculation.  If someone were out voted I presume they would be a good corporate citizen and go along with the majority according to the vote.  There is a long tradition of sitting out tours, so if they sat out instead I suppose the same rules as in the past would apply, in other words (according to court records) they share the profits whether they tour or not but those who tour get a higher percentage. Something like that.

Thanks Cam.
Perhaps this debate comes down to whether a poster is considering the C50 tour as one discrete event and discussion for another as another event vs. considering it all one big event.
It seems that (without arguing about the quality of his reasoning either way) it was Mike's impetus that ended C50. But perhaps they all lacked whatever it took to get together again. Maybe?

It was agreed initially that the C50 was a one shot, 50 show tour, then business would resume as usual (The M&B BB Show).  

Sure, Mike had admitted that he was in favor of going back to business as usual.  But, again poor management and communication by the camps.  

I believe that, had Brian Wilson gone to Mike shortly after the final UK show in Sept 2012, and said something to the effect of "Hey that tour was a blast, let's do it again next summer," then something would've happened.  On the flip side, Mike could've approached Brian and said "Hey, that album was fun, but can we sit and write some new tunes together like the old days?"  Instead, everything is dished out through third parties.  

Getting back to my original post, it's been a little over three years since the C50 Tour ended.  Mike, Al, and Brian are still asked in just about every interview whether it could happen again.  Some fans of still hoping for another go around.  

Personally, I'm fine with things the way they are.  

All I want is a decent concert DVD from C50.  

[HeyJude]

It was agreed initially that the C50 was a one shot, 50 show tour, then business would resume as usual (The M&B BB Show).  

Sure, Mike had admitted that he was in favor of going back to business as usual.  But, again poor management and communication by the camps.  

I believe that, had Brian Wilson gone to Mike shortly after the final UK show in Sept 2012, and said something to the effect of "Hey that tour was a blast, let's do it again next summer," then something would've happened.  On the flip side, Mike could've approached Brian and said "Hey, that album was fun, but can we sit and write some new tunes together like the old days?"  Instead, everything is dished out through third parties.  

I think one of the problems is that it wasn't crystal clear to all involved that it would definitely go back to "the way it was" after the scheduled C50 date. Nothing was set in stone, but clearly, however wishful or delusional, some were hoping they could continue, and in a relatively immediate fashion. Mike was asked *in the middle* of the tour about what would happen in 2013, and while non-committal, he never uttered one word about it going back to "the way things were before."

While all of them could do well to communicate better I would guess, I'm not convinced those two scenarios (Brian asking Mike to tour the next summer, or Mike asking Brian to write together) would have happened. I don't think the reunion lived or died by those specific things happening or not happening. I think Mike preferred his own thing, no drama or stress. I'm not convinced he was as concerned with "writing alone" with Brian as it seems sometimes, and I'm also not convinced Brian particularly wants to write a lot of songs alone with Mike. Separately, I'm not sure if those songs would be any good. (I'd certainly enjoy seeing them try though).

Mike was booking non-reunion shows before the reunion tour was over.

I'm also not convinced "talking" to each other would have saved anything. Al said during the Grammy Museum thing in September 2012 that he specifically said to Mike (presumably that very day) that Mike should reconsider ending the reunion. Al isn't Brian obviously, but clearly Mike wasn't convinced by Al even though Al specifically made an appeal to Mike.

[KDS]

It was agreed initially that the C50 was a one shot, 50 show tour, then business would resume as usual (The M&B BB Show).  

Sure, Mike had admitted that he was in favor of going back to business as usual.  But, again poor management and communication by the camps.  

I believe that, had Brian Wilson gone to Mike shortly after the final UK show in Sept 2012, and said something to the effect of "Hey that tour was a blast, let's do it again next summer," then something would've happened.  On the flip side, Mike could've approached Brian and said "Hey, that album was fun, but can we sit and write some new tunes together like the old days?"  Instead, everything is dished out through third parties.  

I think one of the problems is that it wasn't crystal clear to all involved that it would definitely go back to "the way it was" after the scheduled C50 date. Nothing was set in stone, but clearly, however wishful or delusional, some were hoping they could continue, and in a relatively immediate fashion. Mike was asked *in the middle* of the tour about what would happen in 2013, and while non-committal, he never uttered one word about it going back to "the way things were before."

While all of them could do well to communicate better I would guess, I'm not convinced those two scenarios (Brian asking Mike to tour the next summer, or Mike asking Brian to write together) would have happened. I don't think the reunion lived or died by those specific things happening or not happening. I think Mike preferred his own thing, no drama or stress. I'm not convinced he was as concerned with "writing alone" with Brian as it seems sometimes, and I'm also not convinced Brian particularly wants to write a lot of songs alone with Mike. Separately, I'm not sure if those songs would be any good. (I'd certainly enjoy seeing them try though).

Mike was booking non-reunion shows before the reunion tour was over.

I'm also not convinced "talking" to each other would have saved anything. Al said during the Grammy Museum thing in September 2012 that he specifically said to Mike (presumably that very day) that Mike should reconsider ending the reunion. Al isn't Brian obviously, but clearly Mike wasn't convinced by Al even though Al specifically made an appeal to Mike.

You're probably right, the imaginary scenarios I presented may not have prolonged the reunion, but it could've at least started a dialog. 

And for all those reasons you mention, I think things are best for everybody the way they are.  Mike wants to control everything.  Brian probably doesn't want to write alone with Mike. 

And I highly doubt Brian would be on board with the extensive touring schedule the current Beach Boys are on. 

On a selfish note, if no Beach Boys reunion means that I'm able to easily get a second row ticket to see Brian and Al (in just nine hours!!!!!!), I'm alright with it. 

[Marty Castillo]

It was agreed initially that the C50 was a one shot, 50 show tour, then business would resume as usual (The M&B BB Show).  

Sure, Mike had admitted that he was in favor of going back to business as usual.  But, again poor management and communication by the camps.  

I believe that, had Brian Wilson gone to Mike shortly after the final UK show in Sept 2012, and said something to the effect of "Hey that tour was a blast, let's do it again next summer," then something would've happened.  On the flip side, Mike could've approached Brian and said "Hey, that album was fun, but can we sit and write some new tunes together like the old days?"  Instead, everything is dished out through third parties.  

I think one of the problems is that it wasn't crystal clear to all involved that it would definitely go back to "the way it was" after the scheduled C50 date. Nothing was set in stone, but clearly, however wishful or delusional, some were hoping they could continue, and in a relatively immediate fashion. Mike was asked *in the middle* of the tour about what would happen in 2013, and while non-committal, he never uttered one word about it going back to "the way things were before."

While all of them could do well to communicate better I would guess, I'm not convinced those two scenarios (Brian asking Mike to tour the next summer, or Mike asking Brian to write together) would have happened. I don't think the reunion lived or died by those specific things happening or not happening. I think Mike preferred his own thing, no drama or stress. I'm not convinced he was as concerned with "writing alone" with Brian as it seems sometimes, and I'm also not convinced Brian particularly wants to write a lot of songs alone with Mike. Separately, I'm not sure if those songs would be any good. (I'd certainly enjoy seeing them try though).

Mike was booking non-reunion shows before the reunion tour was over.

I'm also not convinced "talking" to each other would have saved anything. Al said during the Grammy Museum thing in September 2012 that he specifically said to Mike (presumably that very day) that Mike should reconsider ending the reunion. Al isn't Brian obviously, but clearly Mike wasn't convinced by Al even though Al specifically made an appeal to Mike.

You're probably right, the imaginary scenarios I presented may not have prolonged the reunion, but it could've at least started a dialog. 

And for all those reasons you mention, I think things are best for everybody the way they are.  Mike wants to control everything.  Brian probably doesn't want to write alone with Mike. 

And I highly doubt Brian would be on board with the extensive touring schedule the current Beach Boys are on. 

On a selfish note, if no Beach Boys reunion means that I'm able to easily get a second row ticket to see Brian and Al (in just nine hours!!!!!!), I'm alright with it. 

Yes, I agree with you guys. Mike wants the control. He can tour with a much smaller band and entourage, meaning less stress and drama. I think that compromise should be considered, as it is best for the fans and for their legacy. Also, I have no doubt that Mike clears more money in the current configuration than he ever did in C50.

[Emily]

On a selfish note, if no Beach Boys reunion means that I'm able to easily get a second row ticket to see Brian and Al (in just nine hours!!!!!!), I'm alright with it.  

Awesome. Have a great time! The closest they are coming to me is 414 miles. Can't do it.  
Man, B&A concert, book stores, record stores...you've got it all going on!

[KDS]

On a selfish note, if no Beach Boys reunion means that I'm able to easily get a second row ticket to see Brian and Al (in just nine hours!!!!!!), I'm alright with it. 

Awesome. Have a great time! The closest they are coming to me is 414 miles. Can't do it. 

Thanks.

I almost didn't buy tickets because I just saw him five months ago.  But I thought, when will I ever get to see a true legend in the flesh in a small venue (Montgomery College only holds a little over 500 people), and to be that close? 

Plus, my father's going this time.  (Last time was a 100 mile drive on a Monday night).  He's only seen Brian in person one time, around 1981 at a Beach Boys concert.  But, according to my father, Brian was only really there physically.   So, I think he's in for a treat. 

[Sheriff John Stone]

I believe that, had Brian Wilson gone to Mike shortly after the final UK show in Sept 2012, and said something to the effect of "Hey that tour was a blast, let's do it again next summer," then something would've happened.  

But, you're dealing with Brian Wilson here. Certainly the fans on this board are familiar with his history, and Mike Love especially is, too. Actually, Mike Love was directly affected by Brian's decisions - or non-decisions - for 54 years. On Monday Brian wants to continue to tour, but what about when he wakes up on Tuesday? Sometimes you/me/mw/they have to take what Brian Wilson says at a particular time and place, process it, and then try to make sense out of it. Apparently Mike put a lot of merit in the email Brian sent to him saying "No more touring".

[KDS]

I believe that, had Brian Wilson gone to Mike shortly after the final UK show in Sept 2012, and said something to the effect of "Hey that tour was a blast, let's do it again next summer," then something would've happened.  

But, you're dealing with Brian Wilson here. Certainly the fans on this board are familiar with his history, and Mike Love especially is, too. Actually, Mike Love was directly affected by Brian's decisions - or non-decisions - for 54 years. On Monday Brian wants to continue to tour, but what about when he wakes up on Tuesday? Sometimes you/me/mw/they have to take what Brian Wilson says at a particular time and place, process it, and then try to make sense out of it. Apparently Mike put a lot of merit in the email Brian sent to him saying "No more touring".

I agree you Sheriff.  And had he gone to Mike and said these things instead going to third parties saying "I feel like I was fired," we might not still be talking about the end of C50 today. 

And that's another reason why I think the two camps are better off separately. 

[Emily]

I believe that, had Brian Wilson gone to Mike shortly after the final UK show in Sept 2012, and said something to the effect of "Hey that tour was a blast, let's do it again next summer," then something would've happened.  

But, you're dealing with Brian Wilson here. Certainly the fans on this board are familiar with his history, and Mike Love especially is, too. Actually, Mike Love was directly affected by Brian's decisions - or non-decisions - for 54 years. On Monday Brian wants to continue to tour, but what about when he wakes up on Tuesday? Sometimes you/me/mw/they have to take what Brian Wilson says at a particular time and place, process it, and then try to make sense out of it. Apparently Mike put a lot of merit in the email Brian sent to him saying "No more touring".

Can you point me to more information about that email? I've never heard of it.

[HeyJude]

I believe that, had Brian Wilson gone to Mike shortly after the final UK show in Sept 2012, and said something to the effect of "Hey that tour was a blast, let's do it again next summer," then something would've happened.  

But, you're dealing with Brian Wilson here. Certainly the fans on this board are familiar with his history, and Mike Love especially is, too. Actually, Mike Love was directly affected by Brian's decisions - or non-decisions - for 54 years. On Monday Brian wants to continue to tour, but what about when he wakes up on Tuesday? Sometimes you/me/mw/they have to take what Brian Wilson says at a particular time and place, process it, and then try to make sense out of it. Apparently Mike put a lot of merit in the email Brian sent to him saying "No more touring".

Mike acknowledged in the most recent interview I've seen from several days ago that Brian and Al wanted to continue the reunion, and nothing even remotely along the lines of Brian being flaky was among his stated reasons for Mike not being interested in continuing the reunion. Mike was booking shows before the reunion was over. It wasn't Brian being flaky that had anything to do with it ending. I'm not saying Brian passing Mike in a hallway and saying "we should tour next year!" should lead to Mike immediately clearing his calendar. But Mike could have easily explored doing more shows, and could have called for a meeting to discuss booking further dates, etc. He was done with it before it was over, and Brian and Al's big mistake was apparently thinking even at that late hour that it. He has never once said he *pursued* anything regarding continuing the reunion. He walked, and had since mentioned a bunch of potential reasons, some more understandable or dubious than others, some more believable than others as to how much they *actually* impacted his decision, in my opinion.

[SMiLE Brian]

The "email" was only mentioned by Mike's daughter in a rant on Facebook. It's dubious if it exists at all.

[HeyJude]

Can you point me to more information about that email? I've never heard of it.

That’s opening up a can of worms! 

When the tour folded, Mike wrote a long letter to the LA Times (and consequently Brian wrote a response), in which he attempted to explain the end of the reunion. He didn’t mention anything about an email from Brian in this detailed piece of writing.

At some point later on, he offhandedly mentioned in an interview that Brian had said “no more shows please” or something close to that. I think he has since reiterated this, only once or twice, among the MANY times he has been asked about the topic. At some point, this was characterized as an e-mail that Brian and/or his camp had sent, offering simply that he didn’t plan to do any more shows beyond what was scheduled.

I believe, also, that during a kerfuffle on Facebook (or somewhere on the internet) last year in the aftermath of Al’s non-appearance at a Mike/Bruce gig at Jones Beach, when Mike’s daughter was defending Mike, she also mentioned the e-mail (in response to criticism pointed at Mike about the reunion ending, which strangely isn’t specifically what that Jones Beach debacle was about).

A hand full of Mike defenders ran with the information, even though Mike himself has indicated he (Mike) chose to end the reunion, and acknowledges that at the end of it, Brian and Al *did* want to continue. I question whether Mike himself puts much stock in the e-mail, because he *never* even mentions it in his lengthy 2012 letter to the LA Times, which would have been the ideal place to mention something that was, in the eyes of his defenders, such a huge smoking gun.

The e-mail may indicate Brian at some previous point didn’t foresee being able to do more shows. It may also indicate a lack of detailed communication between the camps. But again, NOBODY has refuted the fact that, by the end of the tour, Brian, Al, and David wanted to continue and Mike didn’t. Thus, the e-mail is largely irrelevant (other than possibly detailing the nature of the level of communication between the guys).

[Sheriff John Stone]

I believe that, had Brian Wilson gone to Mike shortly after the final UK show in Sept 2012, and said something to the effect of "Hey that tour was a blast, let's do it again next summer," then something would've happened.  

But, you're dealing with Brian Wilson here. Certainly the fans on this board are familiar with his history, and Mike Love especially is, too. Actually, Mike Love was directly affected by Brian's decisions - or non-decisions - for 54 years. On Monday Brian wants to continue to tour, but what about when he wakes up on Tuesday? Sometimes you/me/mw/they have to take what Brian Wilson says at a particular time and place, process it, and then try to make sense out of it. Apparently Mike put a lot of merit in the email Brian sent to him saying "No more touring".

I agree you Sheriff.  And had he gone to Mike and said these things instead going to third parties saying "I feel like I was fired," we might not still be talking about the end of C50 today.

And, I agree with you. Once Brian's handlers started to get involved, things took a turn for the worse. Doe anybody actually think Brian himself sat down and typed the email to Mike? Does anybody actually think that Brian himself made the decision to make that statement to the press? Does anybody actually think Brian himself wrote a single word of that statement to the press?

You are right, KDS. Brian talking to Mike directly about "issues" would've been the best way to handle things. And, hey, maybe they did. However, maybe it wasn't even necessary. Mike and others had the opportunity to observe Brian's behavior a few times a week. After 75 shows, Brian had trouble walking to and from the stage. Brian needed assistance getting in and out of his piano chair. There were reports of friction with the setlists. There were reports of friction with the wives. Sometimes common sense has to be applied. Would've it been better for Brian to extend the tour yet again, what, to 100 shows, or have Brian return home to his children, deli, and dogs? Do you ever wonder what Brian REALLY wanted after 75 shows?

You know what's funny about the "ending" of the 2012 tour? Supposedly, so many things were wrong, so many people were unhappy, so many opportunities were missed. Yet, and correct me if I'm wrong, not a single person did a single thing to change it.

[SMiLE Brian]

Sheriff, name the handlers.....

[KDS]

I believe that, had Brian Wilson gone to Mike shortly after the final UK show in Sept 2012, and said something to the effect of "Hey that tour was a blast, let's do it again next summer," then something would've happened.  

But, you're dealing with Brian Wilson here. Certainly the fans on this board are familiar with his history, and Mike Love especially is, too. Actually, Mike Love was directly affected by Brian's decisions - or non-decisions - for 54 years. On Monday Brian wants to continue to tour, but what about when he wakes up on Tuesday? Sometimes you/me/mw/they have to take what Brian Wilson says at a particular time and place, process it, and then try to make sense out of it. Apparently Mike put a lot of merit in the email Brian sent to him saying "No more touring".

I agree you Sheriff.  And had he gone to Mike and said these things instead going to third parties saying "I feel like I was fired," we might not still be talking about the end of C50 today.

And, I agree with you. Once Brian's handlers started to get involved, things took a turn for the worse. Doe anybody actually think Brian himself sat down and typed the email to Mike? Does anybody actually think that Brian himself made the decision to make that statement to the press? Does anybody actually think Brian himself wrote a single word of that statement to the press?

You are right, KDS. Brian talking to Mike directly about "issues" would've been the best way to handle things. And, hey, maybe they did. However, maybe it wasn't even necessary. Mike and others had the opportunity to observe Brian's behavior a few times a week. After 75 shows, Brian had trouble walking to and from the stage. Brian needed assistance getting in and out of his piano chair. There were reports of friction with the setlists. There were reports of friction with the wives. Sometimes common sense has to be applied. Would've it been better for Brian to extend the tour yet again, what, to 100 shows, or have Brian return home to his children, deli, and dogs? Do you ever wonder what Brian REALLY wanted after 75 shows?

You know what's funny about the "ending" of the 2012 tour? Supposedly, so many things were wrong, so many people were unhappy, so many opportunities were missed. Yet, and correct me if I'm wrong, not a single person did a single thing to change it.

Brian still has trouble getting to and from his piano.  I've read he's had to be lead to the piano a few times during the NPP Tour.  Quite frankly, I'm very surprised he's added as many Fall dates as he did.  

I didn't really intend this post to be another rehashing of the end of the 2012 Tour, but to gauge some of the pre 2012 feelings regarding Mike and Bruce and reunions.  

So, I'll say one last thing about 2012.  Since it's not likely to happen again, I think it should be remembered for what it was, not for how it ended.  We got a (IMO) very good Beach Boys album out of it.  We got to see Brian Wilson, Mike Love, Al Jardine, Bruce Johnston, and David Marks on stage together doing long and varied sets.  It was very special.  Apparently, not special enough to warrant the release of a full concert on DVD, but.......

[barsone]

I believe that, had Brian Wilson gone to Mike shortly after the final UK show in Sept 2012, and said something to the effect of "Hey that tour was a blast, let's do it again next summer," then something would've happened.  

But, you're dealing with Brian Wilson here. Certainly the fans on this board are familiar with his history, and Mike Love especially is, too. Actually, Mike Love was directly affected by Brian's decisions - or non-decisions - for 54 years. On Monday Brian wants to continue to tour, but what about when he wakes up on Tuesday? Sometimes you/me/mw/they have to take what Brian Wilson says at a particular time and place, process it, and then try to make sense out of it. Apparently Mike put a lot of merit in the email Brian sent to him saying "No more touring".

I agree you Sheriff.  And had he gone to Mike and said these things instead going to third parties saying "I feel like I was fired," we might not still be talking about the end of C50 today.

And, I agree with you. Once Brian's handlers started to get involved, things took a turn for the worse. Doe anybody actually think Brian himself sat down and typed the email to Mike? Does anybody actually think that Brian himself made the decision to make that statement to the press? Does anybody actually think Brian himself wrote a single word of that statement to the press?

You are right, KDS. Brian talking to Mike directly about "issues" would've been the best way to handle things. And, hey, maybe they did. However, maybe it wasn't even necessary. Mike and others had the opportunity to observe Brian's behavior a few times a week. After 75 shows, Brian had trouble walking to and from the stage. Brian needed assistance getting in and out of his piano chair. There were reports of friction with the setlists. There were reports of friction with the wives. Sometimes common sense has to be applied. Would've it been better for Brian to extend the tour yet again, what, to 100 shows, or have Brian return home to his children, deli, and dogs? Do you ever wonder what Brian REALLY wanted after 75 shows?

You know what's funny about the "ending" of the 2012 tour? Supposedly, so many things were wrong, so many people were unhappy, so many opportunities were missed. Yet, and correct me if I'm wrong, not a single person did a single thing to change it.

Sheriff, reference the set-list friction.  I SAW it firsthand prior to the C50 Cleveland Ohio show in middle of June 2012.  My wife bought us M&G/Sound check tickets for the show. Fantastic experience. After 7 or 8 songs Brian yelled over to Mike, lets do Marcella.  Mike responded "we" don't know Marcella.  Brian says, "Mike, my guys know Marcella". So...then everyone stops for a moment and the principals make their way, along with Totten, over to Brian's piano.  A lively discussion went on for a minute or so, not yelling, but it seemed opinionated to me with Mike saying a lot during that short time.  It wasn't a yelling match by any means and even being in the first row, I couldn't make out what was being said. But observed alot of tension. 

Also during the sound-check, Mike was on the phone ALOT when he wasn't part of a song being practiced. I thought this was strange at the time and have thought about it alot since, as I've read all the threads since the breakdown of C50.  No way of ever knowing but one just wonders if by June 2012, the breakup at the end was already in the cards.

One final event from the sound-check. Totten kept Al over at the end to practice the end to Help me Rhonda.  Somehow the previous night at the Cincinnati show, Al screwed up his ending and Scott wanted him to practice. A disagreement between the two occurred on how it should be played at the end. Finally Scott says to Al.  "Al, this is how we play it NOW" and he walked away.  Al stayed, practiced it a few times....took off his guitar....looked down at everyone and just shook his head and walked off.  Again in retrospect, it was just very sad to see in person knowing what we all know now.

I did get to shake Al's hand at the M&G.  Mike was very personable to my wife as we had the picture taken.  He also wanted to know at what show I had bought my Beach Boys hat.  Kind of strange in retrospect, but I think he knew could tell it was from an M&B tour. 

It was a great evening but looking back, did I see stuff that, now having 3+ years of reading these threads, that was the beginning of the end.

[KDS]

Barsome,

I know it's been shared on here before, and I can't recall what publication/website its from, but I remember an interview with Brian and Mike from 2012 where Brian casually said they should do Marcella.  And Mike kinda brushed it off, saying something to the effect of "we don't know that one."  

So, it's interesting that you bring up Marcella as one of the main points on tension when it comes to the setlist.  It's also interesting that Marcella was one of the songs that made the cut for the live DVD that was released.

I wonder if any arms had to be twisted to add IJWMFTT or Pet Sounds to the setlist.  

That's a great story though, thanks for sharing.  Stories like this are why I really think a great book could be written about The Beach Boys of 2012.

[Lee Marshall]

    Ya...Sheriff...I too call upon you to name the handlers and give clear examples of this "handling"...OR...shut the 'eff' up.

You insinuate that *we're* all stupid every time you post this kind of DRIVEL.

[SMiLE Brian]

Exactly, he won't answer back as usual after posting that drivel.

[Emily]

Is anything incorrect here?

-other than the evidence of a rumored email, the statements about the end of the tour indicate that BW was willing to continue but ML was not.
-there was tension, probably in both directions, during the tour.
-when the tour ended there were press releases that basically aired their dirty laundry in public.
-since then, there's no indication that any of them have made an effort to work together again.

Without regard to anyone's motives or judgments about how right or wrong or good or bad some choices and actions and words were, would you say that the above is true?

[HeyJude]

Is anything incorrect here?

-other than the evidence of a rumored email, the statements about the end of the tour indicate that BW was willing to continue but ML was not.
-there was tension, probably in both directions, during the tour.
-when the tour ended there were press releases that basically aired their dirty laundry in public.
-since then, there's no indication that any of them have made an effort to work together again.

Without regard to anyone's motives or judgments about how right or wrong or good or bad some choices and actions and words were, would you say that the above is true?

To your four points:

1. True

2. Difficult to say. Depends on who you ask and which stories you hear. They certainly put a pretty good face on it and everybody (both the 5 BBs and the backing band) put on a stunning show. Undoubtedly some awkwardness, and most likely tension. But it may have been the sort of "one side stewing and not saying anything directly to anybody else." Bad management was a major culprit here.

3. The only actual "press release" issued regarding the end of the tour came from Mike's camp, clearly but rather poorly-timed and coldly letting people know that post-September 28th, any "Beach Boys" shows would not include Brian, Al, and David. As many have said, this statement was needed if Mike was going to continue on his own (which is probably why Brian's camp asked Mike to make such a statement). But it was not a "BRI" nor a "50 Big Ones Productions" statement, nor anything actually signed off by all members. It wasn't a unified, graceful "The End" from the band. It was a "don't ask for your money back if you go to a Beach Boys show and Brian isn't there" statement. The two statements from Mike and then Brian came in the form of "letters" sent to the LA Times. Mike seems to have been motivated by technically/legally-incorrect reports that he had "fired" anyone from the band. Both letters were de facto press releases of course, but technically "Letters to the Editor" or something along those lines. They weren't issued as press releases and distributed to all media outlets. Media outlets obviously picked it up from LA Times anyway.

4. In terms of all five members working together, true. I don't think anyone has proposed another full reunion album, tour, or even show. Mike apparently put invites out to all four of the others for his Ella Award in early 2014, and apparently a concert promoter for Mike's tour asked Al and David to play a Jones Beach show with Mike's band in the summer of 2014. But they understandably aren't pursuing another reunion given the current climate. I'm not sure what the impetus would be for such a project at this stage. A new, GOOD manager might propose something. But frankly, since Mike (unlike Brian and Al) doesn't seem to place the inherent quality of all of them being together above some sort of other incentive to be reunited, I'm not sure why he would agree to another reunion, unless BRI votes to revoke his license or something drastic like that.