Mike and Bruce - Pre 2012

[KDS]

Hello All,

Let me preface this by saying that I'm relatively new to the SSMB, and I have a question about the climate on here prior to the 50th Anniversary Reunion.  I really don't feel like looking at years worth of old threads.

I also don't wish to start yet another Mike v Brian thread. 

But, I'm curious.  What was the overall feeling towards the Mike and Bruce (and sometimes David) version of the Beach Boys that existed from 1998-2011?

Was there outrage prior to the end of the 2012 reunion about Brian not being in the band?  Or was it more accepted then as Brian was busy with touring with Pet Sounds, Smile, That Lucky Old Sun, and Gershwin?  Did C50 create a collective want to see Brian Wilson back in The Beach Boys? 

[GoogaMooga]

When Mike and Bruce made their set list more interesting to compete with Brian's touring band, people here, including myself, were very positive. That in turn made Brian dig deeper into the catalog for his shows (once PS, SMiLE, and Gershwin tours were out of the way).

[KDS]

GM,

Around what time period are you referring to?  I know the M&B added some deeper cuts in the mid 2000s, but I was under the impression that they stuck to 35 song hit heavy sets for the most part until 2012.

Yes, there seems to be a sense of competition between the two camps.  Maybe this is why Brian's setlists have been very Beach Boys heavy since the end of 2012. 

[HeyJude]

Impossible to generalize, but my recollection is that in the 1998-early 2000s timeframe there was pretty strong animosity from some fans towards Mike, having as much to do with simply using the “Beach Boys” name as it did with Brian or Al not being there. Brian didn’t want to be there, Al was confusingly kind of squeezed out in 1998, so it was unclear what he *wanted* versus the reality of what was going on.

The last big swell of a large amount of negative feeling towards Mike came in the mid 2000’s when the “Smile”-related lawsuits came about. They were pretty much laughed out of the courts, and eventually that sort of faded away.

I think by the mid-2000’s, 2006-ish, even a lot of crusty, cynical fans had at least come to terms with Mike using the BB name. Brian still didn’t want a part of it. Al seemed to, sort of. That was about it.

I think the main thing that alleviated the scorn from fans concerning Mike using the BB name was that, apart from Al on and off, nobody else *wanted* to be in the “Beach Boys” touring band or use the BB name. As the decade went on, Mike was touring and there wasn’t any actual alternative. Having *a* Beach Boys, *any* Beach Boys out there versus none is an interesting debate, but at the end of the day Mike wasn’t touring *in place* of any other tangible, feasible lineup.

In 2012, the s**tstorm came about in part because this was no longer the case. Unlike the the late 90s and 2000s, both Brian and Al (and David Marks for that matter) wanted to keep *all five* guys together as “The Beach Boys.”

As Howie Edelson put it some time back, Mike essentially *quit* the band at the end of 2012 and went back to his thing. What fans who think C50 complainers are "anti-Mike" often overlook is that, at least for me, I never wanted to see Mike leave the reunion but have it continue as "The Beach Boys" either. Mike being a part of it is, well, a big part of it! Essentially, implicit in being critical of Mike ending the reunion is that I value what he adds to the band and the whole.

[GoogaMooga]

GM,

Around what time period are you referring to?  I know the M&B added some deeper cuts in the mid 2000s, but I was under the impression that they stuck to 35 song hit heavy sets for the most part until 2012.

Yes, there seems to be a sense of competition between the two camps.  Maybe this is why Brian's setlists have been very Beach Boys heavy since the end of 2012. 

KDS, Mike and Bruce have two kinds of shows, hit-heavy for county fairs and such, and a more varied one with deep cuts for indoor shows. I am not sure when they introduced the deep cuts, because the noughties are all a big blur to me. Seen BW and M&B too many times to really pinpoint anything.

[KDS]

Impossible to generalize, but my recollection is that in the 1998-early 2000s timeframe there was pretty strong animosity from some fans towards Mike, having as much to do with simply using the “Beach Boys” name as it did with Brian or Al not being there. Brian didn’t want to be there, Al was confusingly kind of squeezed out in 1998, so it was unclear what he *wanted* versus the reality of what was going on.

The last big swell of a large amount of negative feeling towards Mike came in the mid 2000’s when the “Smile”-related lawsuits came about. They were pretty much laughed out of the courts, and eventually that sort of faded away.

I think by the mid-2000’s, 2006-ish, even a lot of crusty, cynical fans had at least come to terms with Mike using the BB name. Brian still didn’t want a part of it. Al seemed to, sort of. That was about it.

I think the main thing that alleviated the scorn from fans concerning Mike using the BB name was that, apart from Al on and off, nobody else *wanted* to be in the “Beach Boys” touring band or use the BB name. As the decade went on, Mike was touring and there wasn’t any actual alternative. Having *a* Beach Boys, *any* Beach Boys out there versus none is an interesting debate, but at the end of the day Mike wasn’t touring *in place* of any other tangible, feasible lineup.

In 2012, the s**tstorm came about in part because this was no longer the case. Unlike the the late 90s and 2000s, both Brian and Al (and David Marks for that matter) wanted to keep *all five* guys together as “The Beach Boys.”

As Howie Edelson put it some time back, Mike essentially *quit* the band at the end of 2012 and went back to his thing. What fans who think C50 complainers are "anti-Mike" often overlook is that, at least for me, I never wanted to see Mike leave the reunion but have it continue as "The Beach Boys" either. Mike being a part of it is, well, a big part of it! Essentially, implicit in being critical of Mike ending the reunion is that I value what he adds to the band and the whole.

OK, that's kinda what I thought, that the C50 essentially created the want for Brian Wilson to be a part of The Beach Boys.  

[KDS]

GM,

Around what time period are you referring to?  I know the M&B added some deeper cuts in the mid 2000s, but I was under the impression that they stuck to 35 song hit heavy sets for the most part until 2012.

Yes, there seems to be a sense of competition between the two camps.  Maybe this is why Brian's setlists have been very Beach Boys heavy since the end of 2012. 

KDS, Mike and Bruce have two kinds of shows, hit-heavy for county fairs and such, and a more varied one with deep cuts for indoor shows. I am not sure when they introduced the deep cuts, because the noughties are all a big blur to me. Seen BW and M&B too many times to really pinpoint anything.

Makes sense.  That's one of the reasons I jumped on tickets to see The Beach Boys at the Modell Lyric Opera House in Baltimore in three months. 

[GoogaMooga]

Pardon my ignorance, but what does the "C" stand for in C50?

[KDS]

Pardon my ignorance, but what does the "C" stand for in C50?

It's OK.

Celebration. 

[GoogaMooga]

Pardon my ignorance, but what does the "C" stand for in C50?

It's OK.

Celebration. 

Thanks, man! Indeed it was.

[Wirestone]

Impossible to generalize, but my recollection is that in the 1998-early 2000s timeframe there was pretty strong animosity from some fans towards Mike, having as much to do with simply using the “Beach Boys” name as it did with Brian or Al not being there. Brian didn’t want to be there, Al was confusingly kind of squeezed out in 1998, so it was unclear what he *wanted* versus the reality of what was going on.

The last big swell of a large amount of negative feeling towards Mike came in the mid 2000’s when the “Smile”-related lawsuits came about. They were pretty much laughed out of the courts, and eventually that sort of faded away.

I think by the mid-2000’s, 2006-ish, even a lot of crusty, cynical fans had at least come to terms with Mike using the BB name. Brian still didn’t want a part of it. Al seemed to, sort of. That was about it.

I think the main thing that alleviated the scorn from fans concerning Mike using the BB name was that, apart from Al on and off, nobody else *wanted* to be in the “Beach Boys” touring band or use the BB name. As the decade went on, Mike was touring and there wasn’t any actual alternative. Having *a* Beach Boys, *any* Beach Boys out there versus none is an interesting debate, but at the end of the day Mike wasn’t touring *in place* of any other tangible, feasible lineup.

In 2012, the s**tstorm came about in part because this was no longer the case. Unlike the the late 90s and 2000s, both Brian and Al (and David Marks for that matter) wanted to keep *all five* guys together as “The Beach Boys.”

As Howie Edelson put it some time back, Mike essentially *quit* the band at the end of 2012 and went back to his thing. What fans who think C50 complainers are "anti-Mike" often overlook is that, at least for me, I never wanted to see Mike leave the reunion but have it continue as "The Beach Boys" either. Mike being a part of it is, well, a big part of it! Essentially, implicit in being critical of Mike ending the reunion is that I value what he adds to the band and the whole.

OK, that's kinda what I thought, that the C50 essentially created the want for Brian Wilson to be a part of The Beach Boys.  

I would say that Brian Wilson did that.

[HeyJude]

Pardon my ignorance, but what does the "C" stand for in C50?

It's OK.

Celebration. 

Thanks, man! Indeed it was.

It's understandable to be confused by the "C50" wording, as I don't think the actual band really used it much. It's just shorthand for fans having to type.

I use it often, but a better term would be simply the "reunion", because that avoids the possibility of the (lame) argument that the reunion *couldn't* continue because the 50th anniversary was over. I've seen that argument before. "What were they going to do? Keep calling it the 50th anniversary? Do a 51st Anniversary tour?"

The answer of course is, firstly, yes, they could do either of those things however silly it might be. Or, they could just tour as "The Beach Boys" and make sure to mention that all five members are there in promotions and promotional materials.

[KDS]

Pardon my ignorance, but what does the "C" stand for in C50?

It's OK.

Celebration. 

Thanks, man! Indeed it was.

Yes, it was a great year.  Great tour and an appropriate swan song to The Beach Boys recording career.  

[HeyJude]

Impossible to generalize, but my recollection is that in the 1998-early 2000s timeframe there was pretty strong animosity from some fans towards Mike, having as much to do with simply using the “Beach Boys” name as it did with Brian or Al not being there. Brian didn’t want to be there, Al was confusingly kind of squeezed out in 1998, so it was unclear what he *wanted* versus the reality of what was going on.

The last big swell of a large amount of negative feeling towards Mike came in the mid 2000’s when the “Smile”-related lawsuits came about. They were pretty much laughed out of the courts, and eventually that sort of faded away.

I think by the mid-2000’s, 2006-ish, even a lot of crusty, cynical fans had at least come to terms with Mike using the BB name. Brian still didn’t want a part of it. Al seemed to, sort of. That was about it.

I think the main thing that alleviated the scorn from fans concerning Mike using the BB name was that, apart from Al on and off, nobody else *wanted* to be in the “Beach Boys” touring band or use the BB name. As the decade went on, Mike was touring and there wasn’t any actual alternative. Having *a* Beach Boys, *any* Beach Boys out there versus none is an interesting debate, but at the end of the day Mike wasn’t touring *in place* of any other tangible, feasible lineup.

In 2012, the s**tstorm came about in part because this was no longer the case. Unlike the the late 90s and 2000s, both Brian and Al (and David Marks for that matter) wanted to keep *all five* guys together as “The Beach Boys.”

As Howie Edelson put it some time back, Mike essentially *quit* the band at the end of 2012 and went back to his thing. What fans who think C50 complainers are "anti-Mike" often overlook is that, at least for me, I never wanted to see Mike leave the reunion but have it continue as "The Beach Boys" either. Mike being a part of it is, well, a big part of it! Essentially, implicit in being critical of Mike ending the reunion is that I value what he adds to the band and the whole.

OK, that's kinda what I thought, that the C50 essentially created the want for Brian Wilson to be a part of The Beach Boys.  

I can only speak for myself, but it wasn't so much wanting Brian Wilson to "be in the Beach Boys." It was about having them all together. The "whole is greater than the sum" cliché was actually true on that tour.

Brian has spent most of the last 30 years not wanting to tour with the guys, and/or not being allowed to (the Landy years clouded this issue, as it did many others), so it was certainly extra frustrating when, in 2012, Brian was ecstatic about doing more stuff collectively as the BBs for the first time in ages, and Mike walked away from it. Brian finally wanted to be a Beach Boy, and Mike walked.

[KDS]

Impossible to generalize, but my recollection is that in the 1998-early 2000s timeframe there was pretty strong animosity from some fans towards Mike, having as much to do with simply using the “Beach Boys” name as it did with Brian or Al not being there. Brian didn’t want to be there, Al was confusingly kind of squeezed out in 1998, so it was unclear what he *wanted* versus the reality of what was going on.

The last big swell of a large amount of negative feeling towards Mike came in the mid 2000’s when the “Smile”-related lawsuits came about. They were pretty much laughed out of the courts, and eventually that sort of faded away.

I think by the mid-2000’s, 2006-ish, even a lot of crusty, cynical fans had at least come to terms with Mike using the BB name. Brian still didn’t want a part of it. Al seemed to, sort of. That was about it.

I think the main thing that alleviated the scorn from fans concerning Mike using the BB name was that, apart from Al on and off, nobody else *wanted* to be in the “Beach Boys” touring band or use the BB name. As the decade went on, Mike was touring and there wasn’t any actual alternative. Having *a* Beach Boys, *any* Beach Boys out there versus none is an interesting debate, but at the end of the day Mike wasn’t touring *in place* of any other tangible, feasible lineup.

In 2012, the s**tstorm came about in part because this was no longer the case. Unlike the the late 90s and 2000s, both Brian and Al (and David Marks for that matter) wanted to keep *all five* guys together as “The Beach Boys.”

As Howie Edelson put it some time back, Mike essentially *quit* the band at the end of 2012 and went back to his thing. What fans who think C50 complainers are "anti-Mike" often overlook is that, at least for me, I never wanted to see Mike leave the reunion but have it continue as "The Beach Boys" either. Mike being a part of it is, well, a big part of it! Essentially, implicit in being critical of Mike ending the reunion is that I value what he adds to the band and the whole.

OK, that's kinda what I thought, that the C50 essentially created the want for Brian Wilson to be a part of The Beach Boys.  

I can only speak for myself, but it wasn't so much wanting Brian Wilson to "be in the Beach Boys." It was about having them all together. The "whole is greater than the sum" cliché was actually true on that tour.

Brian has spent most of the last 30 years not wanting to tour with the guys, and/or not being allowed to (the Landy years clouded this issue, as it did many others), so it was certainly extra frustrating when, in 2012, Brian was ecstatic about doing more stuff collectively as the BBs for the first time in ages, and Mike walked away from it. Brian finally wanted to be a Beach Boy, and Mike walked.

Yet another instance in Beach Boys history where better management could've made a difference. 

On the bright side, I don't think NPP would exist (at least not in its current form) had The Beach Boys stayed together. 

[WonderfulLittlePad]

Impossible to generalize, but my recollection is that in the 1998-early 2000s timeframe there was pretty strong animosity from some fans towards Mike, having as much to do with simply using the “Beach Boys” name as it did with Brian or Al not being there. Brian didn’t want to be there, Al was confusingly kind of squeezed out in 1998, so it was unclear what he *wanted* versus the reality of what was going on.

The last big swell of a large amount of negative feeling towards Mike came in the mid 2000’s when the “Smile”-related lawsuits came about. They were pretty much laughed out of the courts, and eventually that sort of faded away.

I think by the mid-2000’s, 2006-ish, even a lot of crusty, cynical fans had at least come to terms with Mike using the BB name. Brian still didn’t want a part of it. Al seemed to, sort of. That was about it.

I think the main thing that alleviated the scorn from fans concerning Mike using the BB name was that, apart from Al on and off, nobody else *wanted* to be in the “Beach Boys” touring band or use the BB name. As the decade went on, Mike was touring and there wasn’t any actual alternative. Having *a* Beach Boys, *any* Beach Boys out there versus none is an interesting debate, but at the end of the day Mike wasn’t touring *in place* of any other tangible, feasible lineup.

In 2012, the s**tstorm came about in part because this was no longer the case. Unlike the the late 90s and 2000s, both Brian and Al (and David Marks for that matter) wanted to keep *all five* guys together as “The Beach Boys.”

As Howie Edelson put it some time back, Mike essentially *quit* the band at the end of 2012 and went back to his thing. What fans who think C50 complainers are "anti-Mike" often overlook is that, at least for me, I never wanted to see Mike leave the reunion but have it continue as "The Beach Boys" either. Mike being a part of it is, well, a big part of it! Essentially, implicit in being critical of Mike ending the reunion is that I value what he adds to the band and the whole.

OK, that's kinda what I thought, that the C50 essentially created the want for Brian Wilson to be a part of The Beach Boys.  

I can only speak for myself, but it wasn't so much wanting Brian Wilson to "be in the Beach Boys." It was about having them all together. The "whole is greater than the sum" cliché was actually true on that tour.

Brian has spent most of the last 30 years not wanting to tour with the guys, and/or not being allowed to (the Landy years clouded this issue, as it did many others), so it was certainly extra frustrating when, in 2012, Brian was ecstatic about doing more stuff collectively as the BBs for the first time in ages, and Mike walked away from it. Brian finally wanted to be a Beach Boy, and Mike walked.

Yet another instance in Beach Boys history where better management could've made a difference. 

On the bright side, I don't think NPP would exist (at least not in its current form) had The Beach Boys stayed together. 

I like NPP, but man that record would have been even better as a Beach Boys album.

[KDS]

Impossible to generalize, but my recollection is that in the 1998-early 2000s timeframe there was pretty strong animosity from some fans towards Mike, having as much to do with simply using the “Beach Boys” name as it did with Brian or Al not being there. Brian didn’t want to be there, Al was confusingly kind of squeezed out in 1998, so it was unclear what he *wanted* versus the reality of what was going on.

The last big swell of a large amount of negative feeling towards Mike came in the mid 2000’s when the “Smile”-related lawsuits came about. They were pretty much laughed out of the courts, and eventually that sort of faded away.

I think by the mid-2000’s, 2006-ish, even a lot of crusty, cynical fans had at least come to terms with Mike using the BB name. Brian still didn’t want a part of it. Al seemed to, sort of. That was about it.

I think the main thing that alleviated the scorn from fans concerning Mike using the BB name was that, apart from Al on and off, nobody else *wanted* to be in the “Beach Boys” touring band or use the BB name. As the decade went on, Mike was touring and there wasn’t any actual alternative. Having *a* Beach Boys, *any* Beach Boys out there versus none is an interesting debate, but at the end of the day Mike wasn’t touring *in place* of any other tangible, feasible lineup.

In 2012, the s**tstorm came about in part because this was no longer the case. Unlike the the late 90s and 2000s, both Brian and Al (and David Marks for that matter) wanted to keep *all five* guys together as “The Beach Boys.”

As Howie Edelson put it some time back, Mike essentially *quit* the band at the end of 2012 and went back to his thing. What fans who think C50 complainers are "anti-Mike" often overlook is that, at least for me, I never wanted to see Mike leave the reunion but have it continue as "The Beach Boys" either. Mike being a part of it is, well, a big part of it! Essentially, implicit in being critical of Mike ending the reunion is that I value what he adds to the band and the whole.

OK, that's kinda what I thought, that the C50 essentially created the want for Brian Wilson to be a part of The Beach Boys.  

I can only speak for myself, but it wasn't so much wanting Brian Wilson to "be in the Beach Boys." It was about having them all together. The "whole is greater than the sum" cliché was actually true on that tour.

Brian has spent most of the last 30 years not wanting to tour with the guys, and/or not being allowed to (the Landy years clouded this issue, as it did many others), so it was certainly extra frustrating when, in 2012, Brian was ecstatic about doing more stuff collectively as the BBs for the first time in ages, and Mike walked away from it. Brian finally wanted to be a Beach Boy, and Mike walked.

Yet another instance in Beach Boys history where better management could've made a difference. 

On the bright side, I don't think NPP would exist (at least not in its current form) had The Beach Boys stayed together. 

I like NPP, but man that record would have been even better as a Beach Boys album.

That's assuming it had the same songs.  Judging by Mike's reaction to Summer's Gone, I'm not so sure he would've wanted to be on songs like This Beautiful Day, Whatever Happened, The Last Song, or Tell Me Why. 

But......we'll never know. 

That brings to mind another pre 2012 question. 

Was there a lot of discussion on here saying that Imagination, GIOHM, or TLOS would've been great Beach Boys albums? 

Or, do you just say that about NPP because TWGMTR was so good, and NPP was seen as a natural follow-up?

[HeyJude]

That brings to mind another pre 2012 question. 

Was there a lot of discussion on here saying that Imagination, GIOHM, or TLOS would've been great Beach Boys albums? 

Or, do you just say that about NPP because TWGMTR was so good, and NPP was seen as a natural follow-up?

Other than the occasional "it would be interesting to hear Al (or whomever) sing that Brian song", I don't recall a huge swell of "why couldn't this be a Beach Boys album?" on those older Brian albums.

With NPP, while I don't think everybody was screaming about it not being a BB album (despite what the Beard/Love interview may seem to indicate), the increased references to what "could have been" a BB album came about for very clear reasons: In 2012, Brian said he wanted to do more work with the BBs. I think there's even a quote suggesting Brian wanted it to be BB projects for the foreseeable future. Also, as with TWGMTR, most of NPP was co-written by Joe Thomas.

We'll never know what a BB album would have looked like, but I don't think it's a stretch that at least a few of the NPP songs could have potentially made it in some form onto whatever the next BB album might have been.

[SMiLE Brian]

The mood right before the C50 was sadly resigned to M&B touring. Then the c50 and its blowup showed that Mike had really taken everybody for a ride by taking the name.

[CarlTheVoice]

I kind of understand all the upset around Mike pulling out of doing more shows as the whole Beach Boys but at the same time I never thought they would carry on longer than the planned shows. I was happy for it and it was great but they went out on a high and that's how they should be remembered. 

How many times have the Boys made the wrong decision in their careers and ended up tarnishing their legacy? By stopping when they did perhaps it was for the best.

One thing that came into my mind just now. If Mike and Bruce HAD carried on for another year or longer, what would have happened if it had been Brian or Al who had pulled out due to health reasons/politics/musical direction? There's no guarantee that extending C50 would have resulted in a happy ending and judging by their past it almost certainly wouldn't have! Bands don't stay together if they don't like being around each other. If that's the case why force it on them and ruin what once was a good thing?

[CenturyDeprived]

One thing seems certain: Mike has received a TON more hostile animosity directed squarely at him since C50 imploded. Which makes me believe, with hardly any question about it, that if he could do it over again, he'd have nixed C50 from even happening in the first place. Just think: we could have simply had no Summer's Gone, no To There and Back Again, if Mike could only roll back time :/

It's just sad.

[HeyJude]

I kind of understand all the upset around Mike pulling out of doing more shows as the whole Beach Boys but at the same time I never thought they would carry on longer than the planned shows. I was happy for it and it was great but they went out on a high and that's how they should be remembered.  

How many times have the Boys made the wrong decision in their careers and ended up tarnishing their legacy? By stopping when they did perhaps it was for the best.

One thing that came into my mind just now. If Mike and Bruce HAD carried on for another year or longer, what would have happened if it had been Brian or Al who had pulled out due to health reasons/politics/musical direction? There's no guarantee that extending C50 would have resulted in a happy ending and judging by their past it almost certainly wouldn't have! Bands don't stay together if they don't like being around each other. If that's the case why force it on them and ruin what once was a good thing?

I don't think much of anyone could have assumed the reunion would stay together indefinitely. But I don't think a lot of people were assuming or predicting Brian and Al would want to continue (and vocally so) and that it would be Mike that walked.

As far as it "eventually" ending on a bad note, I'd say two things. It already *did* end on a bad note. That doesn't ruin it for me at all, but it did crash and burn a bit needlessly, certain in a PR sense. Secondly, with decent management, it easily could end smoothly whenever that time would come.

Even *after* the PR disaster in September 2012 they could have salvaged it. Book a farewell series of shows at the end of the year, end united (at least PR wise), and end on a high note.

As far as what would happen in the future, first I would say that any "health issues" wouldn't ever be blamed on a member. If Mike had had to bow out of any more reunion shows due to health reasons (as opposed to getting right back on the road with own band literally one day later), I would never have criticized Mike for that.

As for any other pitfalls of continued reunion activity, the idea that something *might* happen in the future isn't a reason to end a great tour and great lineup.

I don't think the idea, for me anyway, is necessarily that I wanted the reunion to be permanent. I simply think they could have done it longer. Similar to my other point, the idea that it can't last forever (which isn't, theoretically, set in stone anyway) isn't a reason to abort it way too early. And it was aborted way too early.

[Cam Mott]

I'll bet a donut that when it is all told, Mike will have done no more to keep more reunion activity from happening than Brian and Al did and Mike did no less to make it happen than Brian and Al did.  Because BRI. I predict it is exactly as told, they all never got together as BRI to discuss what they would do about any 2013 or later offers.  If there were any offers that would have made it to contract for 2013 and weren't just pie in sky at the time.

[CenturyDeprived]

I'll bet a donut that when it is all told, Mike will have done no more to keep more reunion activity from happening than Brian and Al did and Mike did no less to make it happen than Brian and Al did.  Because BRI. I predict it is exactly as told, they all never got together as BRI to discuss what they would do about any 2013 or later offers.  If there were any offers that would have made it to contract for 2013 and weren't just pie in sky at the time.

You realize by saying that, you're essentially implying that Al in 2012 had as significant "needs" and demands that weren't being met when compared to Mike. You don't hear interviews with Al grumbling over and over again about Waves of Love being rejected, but Mike's publicly repeatedly complains about all sorts of Mike's own C50 songwriting needs going unfulfilled.

Mike threw a hissy fit in no small part because when he realized he was not going to be as necessary to the songwriting process as he wanted, it would not fly. His need for gaining more widespread industry respect (a desire I can understand) was bigger than any kind of need for healing, mending of fences, or the legacy of the band (that ego-based barometer of priorities I cannot understand). Regarding the songwriting matter alone, how can you consider the two men's demands on par with each other, when it comes to assigning blame? Of the two men, Mike continues to far more of a whiner about this subject alone; it's not some "equal" blame type thing at all.

[Cam Mott]

I'll bet a donut that when it is all told, Mike will have done no more to keep more reunion activity from happening than Brian and Al did and Mike did no less to make it happen than Brian and Al did.  Because BRI. I predict it is exactly as told, they all never got together as BRI to discuss what they would do about any 2013 or later offers.  If there were any offers that would have made it to contract for 2013 and weren't just pie in sky at the time.

You realize by saying that, you're essentially implying that Al in 2012 had as significant "needs" and demands that weren't being met when compared to Mike. You don't hear interviews with Al grumbling over and over again about Waves of Love being rejected, but Mike's publicly repeatedly complains about all sorts of Mike's own C50 songwriting needs going unfulfilled. Mike threw a hissy fit in no small part because when he realized he was not going to be as necessary to the songwriting process as he wanted, it would not fly. On this matter alone, how can you consider the two men's demands on par with each other? Of the two men, Mike continues to far more of a whiner about this subject alone; it's not some "equal" blame type thing at all.

Easy, all of that is a red herring and/or straw man because Al has as much authority in BRI as Brian or Mike.