Paris

[Emily]

Excellent post, Chocolate Shake. And El Captain, thanks for bringing in so much great listening and reading.
I guess it turns out that I was only "out" for that particular escalating exchange. 

[Bean Bag]

We got this? Lol. It certainly went well under the neocons. (So far both parties have proven themselves entirely inept.) Inspiring stuff.

The tough talk remains adorable.

Each time you post you only reveal yourself.  Because, I think I was describing action.

[Mike's Beard]

It is an uncontroversial point that the aggressive actions throughout that part of the world have served to help establish, intensify, and bolster terrorist groups like ISIS. Does that give ISIS a free pass to create chaos and mayhem throughout the world? Of course not! What they did and who they are is despicable. But, again, if we are at all serious at trying to prevent these atrocities then we have to locate the cause of them. Calling it "victim blaming" is simply another tactic in the ongoing attempts to ensure instability. I was faced with the same kind of responses when I opposed the Iraq War on the grounds that I didn't want to see events like last Friday happening. But it's interesting how things go: In 2003, I was not supposed to say that the war would like to an increase in violence and instability because, well, I was wrong. But now that those predicted consequences have turned out to be true, I'm not supposed to mention it because it's inconsiderate. It's amazing how everything works out to ensure that this crucial point gets silenced no matter what has happened and what continues to happen.

You are talking about a bunch of guys who think that by blowing themselves up and taking as many innocent people with them as they can that they are going to enter an afterlife paradise with dozens of virgins to screw. How do you reason with the likes of that?
You can't. Shut the borders to stop them creeping in. Round up any already living in the west that are known to support, have links, ties, sympathise or preach radical Islamic ideology and deport them if they are migrants or lock them up if they are second/third generation settlers under grounds of treason. And that includes those that would support any form of Sharia Law. They simply have no place in civilised Western society.
Complaining about a war that shouldn't have happened over a decade ago is going to achieve squat.

[Bean Bag]

Holy hand-hockey... talk about rhetorical tricks.  

Ya'll need to write this sh-t down, cuz I'm about to drop some b-mbs!  

Psychotic.  Raping.  Murdering.  Cowards.
If you feel the need to assign them purpose, do so in the privacy of your own home, cuz that's some perverted sht.  And these people see it.  They walk into schools, Einsteins.  They burst into rock concerts... and just start blasting away.  And you feel a need to explain and broadcast their reasons for them?  Bravo!

When some loser drags a woman into his loser car and rapes her -- do you look for reason?  Probably not, because that would only celebrate it.  Likewise... terrorists.  People of this mindset are also looking for reasons -- and you're gonna broadcast that?

Some twisted psychotic creep walked up to a reporter and executed her, and posted it on YouTube.  His reasons were?  How about who the fck cares?  Know this... his reasons seemed more and more legit to him with each leftwing broadcast analysis of why people can, should and do act out like this.  

And no, there's not a damn reason for it.  So just stop it.  Stop.  You're not gonna crack the case.  You're not.  You're just not.  Because, there's not a damn thing ANYBODY EVER DOES to cause this.

I find it interesting that some people think they know so intimately the motives and impulses driving people they've never interacted with even though, given tons of historical evidence, those are very unlikely to be the motives and impulses. It's an interesting projection and says a lot about human psychology.
If millions of people have behaved the same way in the past, why believe the motives and impulses of this particular set of people are different from those millions?
frankly, it's just dumb.

I agree Emily.  As you said: "why do people think they know so intimately the motives and impulses of people" etc.  Hopefully I made it clear in my post that I DO NOT GIVE A SH-T about their motives and impulses.  In fact, a preoccupation with that is only giving these turds further incentive.

[Mike's Beard]

Why does Emily think she "knows so intimately the motives and impulses of these people"?

[Emily]

Holy hand-hockey... talk about rhetorical tricks.  

Ya'll need to write this sh-t down, cuz I'm about to drop some b-mbs!  

Psychotic.  Raping.  Murdering.  Cowards.
If you feel the need to assign them purpose, do so in the privacy of your own home, cuz that's some perverted sht.  And these people see it.  They walk into schools, Einsteins.  They burst into rock concerts... and just start blasting away.  And you feel a need to explain and broadcast their reasons for them?  Bravo!

When some loser drags a woman into his loser car and rapes her -- do you look for reason?  Probably not, because that would only celebrate it.  Likewise... terrorists.  People of this mindset are also looking for reasons -- and you're gonna broadcast that?

Some twisted psychotic creep walked up to a reporter and executed her, and posted it on YouTube.  His reasons were?  How about who the fck cares?  Know this... his reasons seemed more and more legit to him with each leftwing broadcast analysis of why people can, should and do act out like this.  

And no, there's not a damn reason for it.  So just stop it.  Stop.  You're not gonna crack the case.  You're not.  You're just not.  Because, there's not a damn thing ANYBODY EVER DOES to cause this.

I find it interesting that some people think they know so intimately the motives and impulses driving people they've never interacted with even though, given tons of historical evidence, those are very unlikely to be the motives and impulses. It's an interesting projection and says a lot about human psychology.
If millions of people have behaved the same way in the past, why believe the motives and impulses of this particular set of people are different from those millions?
frankly, it's just dumb.

I agree Emily.  As you said: "why do people think they know so intimately the motives and impulses of people" etc.  Hopefully I made it clear in my post that I DO NOT GIVE A SH-T about their motives and impulses.  In fact, a preoccupation with that is only giving these turds further incentive.

You, before you edited it out of your quote above: "They are not attacking us because we annihilated Saddam Hussein's house of torture.  Or because we have a military base somewhere.  Get the fck outta here with that sht!  They are attacking us precisely because they see opportunity in weakness.  Clinton.  Obama.  YOUR weakness.  And no, there's not a damn reason for it.  So just stop it.  Stop.  You're not gonna crack the case.  You're not.  You're just not.  Because, there's not a damn thing ANYBODY EVER DOES to cause this."
This was you abscribing motives and impulses.
Show me evidence that their motives and impulses are different from those that drove the IRA. I can show you evidence that they're the same.

[KDS]

It is an uncontroversial point that the aggressive actions throughout that part of the world have served to help establish, intensify, and bolster terrorist groups like ISIS. Does that give ISIS a free pass to create chaos and mayhem throughout the world? Of course not! What they did and who they are is despicable. But, again, if we are at all serious at trying to prevent these atrocities then we have to locate the cause of them. Calling it "victim blaming" is simply another tactic in the ongoing attempts to ensure instability. I was faced with the same kind of responses when I opposed the Iraq War on the grounds that I didn't want to see events like last Friday happening. But it's interesting how things go: In 2003, I was not supposed to say that the war would like to an increase in violence and instability because, well, I was wrong. But now that those predicted consequences have turned out to be true, I'm not supposed to mention it because it's inconsiderate. It's amazing how everything works out to ensure that this crucial point gets silenced no matter what has happened and what continues to happen.

You are talking about a bunch of guys who think that by blowing themselves up and taking as many innocent people with them as they can that they are going to enter an afterlife paradise with dozens of virgins to screw. How do you reason with the likes of that?
You can't. Shut the borders to stop them creeping in. Round up any already living in the west that are known to support, have links, ties, sympathise or preach radical Islamic ideology and deport them if they are migrants or lock them up if they are second/third generation settlers under grounds of treason. And that includes those that would support any form of Sharia Law. They simply have no place in civilised Western society.
Complaining about a war that shouldn't have happened over a decade ago is going to achieve squat.

You're 100% right.  The incident is France should be a valuable lesson. 

[Mike's Beard]

Thanks man, it's nice to see not everybody has their head stuck up their asses on this one.

[Emily]

Why does Emily think she "knows so intimately the motives and impulses of these people"?

Your manipulations and/or lack of reading comprehension are/is exhausting.
Stating that someone has motives and impulses that are NOT THE ONES TO BE LOGICALLY EXPECTED IF YOU RELY ON THE VAST PUBLICLY AVAILABLE EVIDENCE (what you and Bean Bag are doing) would require intimate direct knowledge outside of the publicly available evidence.
Abscribing the motives and impulses that are most likely based on lots of publicly available evidence (what I'm doing) would not require intimate direct knowledge.

Please stop with the games and just have a straight conversation. It's very irritating.

[KDS]

Thanks man, it's nice to see not everybody has their head stuck up their asses on this one.

Yes, it's time to stop being so PC and stop worrying about offending everybody, and start doing what's right to this country. 

One would've thought 9/11/01 would've provided the needed lesson. 

[Mike's Beard]

Why does Emily think she "knows so intimately the motives and impulses of these people"?

Your manipulations and/or lack of reading comprehension are/is exhausting.

As are yours.

[the captain]

It isn't about being PC, it's about actually thinking rather than reacting (or over-reacting) out of anger. Political correctness is irrelevant to this discussion, and I don't think anyone advocating an assessment of root causes as part of a solution is basing their arguments on it.

The reality is that without knowing what actually causes extremism, terrorism, jihadism, Islamist terrorism, whatever, you're not going to solve anything. Bombing the sh*t out of "them" feels great to sate bloodthirst, but it doesn't end the problem. It leaves orphaned boys who follow their "martyred" daddies' footsteps. It leaves the options of genocide or permanent occupation.

I don't know what the best solution is. If it were easy, it would've been done already. But I am pretty sure overly broad revenge campaigns will do more harm than good. Just as they always do.

[the captain]

Each time you post you only reveal yourself. 

As caller-out of nonsense, bullshit, and hyperbolic bloviating. I agree. Thanks for noticing."

[Emily]

Thanks man, it's nice to see not everybody has their head stuck up their asses on this one.

Yes, it's time to stop being so PC and stop worrying about offending everybody, and start doing what's right to this country. 

One would've thought 9/11/01 would've provided the needed lesson. 

Show me evidence that anyone in this dialog was driven by not wanting to offend, other than when I held back last night.

[Bean Bag]

Holy hand-hockey... talk about rhetorical tricks.  

Ya'll need to write this sh-t down, cuz I'm about to drop some b-mbs!  

Psychotic.  Raping.  Murdering.  Cowards.
If you feel the need to assign them purpose, do so in the privacy of your own home, cuz that's some perverted sht.  And these people see it.  They walk into schools, Einsteins.  They burst into rock concerts... and just start blasting away.  And you feel a need to explain and broadcast their reasons for them?  Bravo!

When some loser drags a woman into his loser car and rapes her -- do you look for reason?  Probably not, because that would only celebrate it.  Likewise... terrorists.  People of this mindset are also looking for reasons -- and you're gonna broadcast that?

Some twisted psychotic creep walked up to a reporter and executed her, and posted it on YouTube.  His reasons were?  How about who the fck cares?  Know this... his reasons seemed more and more legit to him with each leftwing broadcast analysis of why people can, should and do act out like this.  

And no, there's not a damn reason for it.  So just stop it.  Stop.  You're not gonna crack the case.  You're not.  You're just not.  Because, there's not a damn thing ANYBODY EVER DOES to cause this.

I find it interesting that some people think they know so intimately the motives and impulses driving people they've never interacted with even though, given tons of historical evidence, those are very unlikely to be the motives and impulses. It's an interesting projection and says a lot about human psychology.
If millions of people have behaved the same way in the past, why believe the motives and impulses of this particular set of people are different from those millions?
frankly, it's just dumb.

I agree Emily.  As you said: "why do people think they know so intimately the motives and impulses of people" etc.  Hopefully I made it clear in my post that I DO NOT GIVE A SH-T about their motives and impulses.  In fact, a preoccupation with that is only giving these turds further incentive.

You, before you edited it out of your quote above: "They are not attacking us because we annihilated Saddam Hussein's house of torture.  Or because we have a military base somewhere.  Get the fck outta here with that sht!  They are attacking us precisely because they see opportunity in weakness.  Clinton.  Obama.  YOUR weakness.  And no, there's not a damn reason for it.  So just stop it.  Stop.  You're not gonna crack the case.  You're not.  You're just not.  Because, there's not a damn thing ANYBODY EVER DOES to cause this."
This was you abscribing motives and impulses.
Show me evidence that their motives and impulses are different from those that drove the IRA. I can show you evidence that they're the same.

Ok, I see.  No, I edited my post to make sure my message of STOP GIVING A SH-T ABOUT THEIR MOTIVES was clear.  That's my whole point.  Who gives a sh-t what their motives are.  That's clear isn't it?

But the part about toppling Saddam and the Iraq war being among the terrorist's motives, that's what the LEFT keeps babbling about.  It was an example of how the Left sees everything as America's fault, for some cowardly, dopey reason.

I'm saying trying to justify any of this... no matter what you're intentions -- that's a moment of weakness.  And to say they're pouncing on the opportunity of this perceived weakness ... that's not a motive.  I'm not a criminal detective, but I gather there's a difference between motive and "moment of opportunity."

[Mike's Beard]

Killing Jews and anyone else who doesn't fit their views on religion back home is the West's fault? Glad we've cleared that one up.

[Emily]

Holy hand-hockey... talk about rhetorical tricks.  

Ya'll need to write this sh-t down, cuz I'm about to drop some b-mbs!  

Psychotic.  Raping.  Murdering.  Cowards.
If you feel the need to assign them purpose, do so in the privacy of your own home, cuz that's some perverted sht.  And these people see it.  They walk into schools, Einsteins.  They burst into rock concerts... and just start blasting away.  And you feel a need to explain and broadcast their reasons for them?  Bravo!

When some loser drags a woman into his loser car and rapes her -- do you look for reason?  Probably not, because that would only celebrate it.  Likewise... terrorists.  People of this mindset are also looking for reasons -- and you're gonna broadcast that?

Some twisted psychotic creep walked up to a reporter and executed her, and posted it on YouTube.  His reasons were?  How about who the fck cares?  Know this... his reasons seemed more and more legit to him with each leftwing broadcast analysis of why people can, should and do act out like this.  

And no, there's not a damn reason for it.  So just stop it.  Stop.  You're not gonna crack the case.  You're not.  You're just not.  Because, there's not a damn thing ANYBODY EVER DOES to cause this.

I find it interesting that some people think they know so intimately the motives and impulses driving people they've never interacted with even though, given tons of historical evidence, those are very unlikely to be the motives and impulses. It's an interesting projection and says a lot about human psychology.
If millions of people have behaved the same way in the past, why believe the motives and impulses of this particular set of people are different from those millions?
frankly, it's just dumb.

I agree Emily.  As you said: "why do people think they know so intimately the motives and impulses of people" etc.  Hopefully I made it clear in my post that I DO NOT GIVE A SH-T about their motives and impulses.  In fact, a preoccupation with that is only giving these turds further incentive.

You, before you edited it out of your quote above: "They are not attacking us because we annihilated Saddam Hussein's house of torture.  Or because we have a military base somewhere.  Get the fck outta here with that sht!  They are attacking us precisely because they see opportunity in weakness.  Clinton.  Obama.  YOUR weakness.  And no, there's not a damn reason for it.  So just stop it.  Stop.  You're not gonna crack the case.  You're not.  You're just not.  Because, there's not a damn thing ANYBODY EVER DOES to cause this."
This was you abscribing motives and impulses.
Show me evidence that their motives and impulses are different from those that drove the IRA. I can show you evidence that they're the same.

Ok, I see.  No, I edited my post to make sure my message of STOP GIVING A SH-T ABOUT THEIR MOTIVES was clear.  That's my whole point.  Who gives a sh-t what their motives are.  That's clear isn't it?

But the part about toppling Saddam and the Iraq war being among the terrorist's motives, that's what the LEFT keeps babbling about.  It was an example of how the Left sees everything as America's fault, for some cowardly, dopey reason.

I'm saying trying to justify any of this... no matter what you're intentions -- that's a moment of weakness.  And to say they're pouncing on the opportunity of this perceived weakness ... that's not a motive.  I'm not a criminal detective, but I gather there's a difference between motive and "moment of opportunity."

You can't imagine that invasion by a foreign country might lead someone to want to fight back? Strange, because it seems to me that you are saying we should fight back because of a foreign attack.

[Bean Bag]

Each time you post you only reveal yourself. 

As caller-out of nonsense, bullshit, and hyperbolic bloviating. I agree. Thanks for noticing."

  Anytime!

[Bean Bag]

You can't imagine that invasion by a foreign country might lead someone to want to fight back? Strange, because it seems to me that you are saying we should fight back because of a foreign attack.

Absolutely, yes.  I would certainly imagine they'd want to fight back.  Unfortunately our leftist President thinks we can walk away -- and announce it.  I mean, yikes.

[Emily]

You can't imagine that invasion by a foreign country might lead someone to want to fight back? Strange, because it seems to me that you are saying we should fight back because of a foreign attack.

Absolutely, yes.  I would certainly imagine they'd want to fight back.  Unfortunately our leftist President thinks we can walk away -- and announce it.  I mean, yikes.

Hey! We have a tiny area of common ground!

[KDS]

Thanks man, it's nice to see not everybody has their head stuck up their asses on this one.

Yes, it's time to stop being so PC and stop worrying about offending everybody, and start doing what's right to this country. 

One would've thought 9/11/01 would've provided the needed lesson. 

Show me evidence that anyone in this dialog was driven by not wanting to offend, other than when I held back last night.

That's nowhere in this thread, but I was just commenting on one of the biggest problems with America, in general.  Extreme political correctness. 

[Emily]

Thanks man, it's nice to see not everybody has their head stuck up their asses on this one.

Yes, it's time to stop being so PC and stop worrying about offending everybody, and start doing what's right to this country. 

One would've thought 9/11/01 would've provided the needed lesson. 

Show me evidence that anyone in this dialog was driven by not wanting to offend, other than when I held back last night.

That's nowhere in this thread, but I was just commenting on one of the biggest problems with America, in general.  Extreme political correctness. 

OK. Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying.

[KDS]

Thanks man, it's nice to see not everybody has their head stuck up their asses on this one.

Yes, it's time to stop being so PC and stop worrying about offending everybody, and start doing what's right to this country. 

One would've thought 9/11/01 would've provided the needed lesson. 

Show me evidence that anyone in this dialog was driven by not wanting to offend, other than when I held back last night.

That's nowhere in this thread, but I was just commenting on one of the biggest problems with America, in general.  Extreme political correctness. 

OK. Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying.

You're welcome. 

[Bean Bag]

It isn't about being PC, it's about actually thinking rather than reacting (or over-reacting) out of anger.

I don't know what the best solution is. If it were easy, it would've been done already. But I am pretty sure overly broad revenge campaigns will do more harm than good. Just as they always do.

 

Oh good gravy.  Captain.  You just articulated the next phase of the plan for them.  They said, almost verbatim, "You better not over-react... cuz that's what we want."    Really?

Guys, c'mon.  We're not dealing with a bunch of chess champions here.  Get in the game.

[alf wiedersehen]

All right, Bean Bag, so what's the plan?