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Bean Bag
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« Reply #50 on: November 15, 2015, 02:01:56 PM »

Victim blaming - awesome.

Nice, isn't it?  How much longer does the rest of polite, normal society have to pretend to tolerate this nonesnese. I think we've polite long enough.

Yeah! That's the kind of tough talk we need to make America great again. I say no more politeness. Rudeness from here on out. We'll fart at the dinner table, for starters.

I love you man! Hmm, i suppose that might work. If your goal was to sneak behind enemy lines, win their trust and gather intelligence. Should we let the Pentagon know?
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« Reply #51 on: November 15, 2015, 02:16:08 PM »

The second half of this (Dan Carlin's "Common Sense" podcast") is about the Paris attacks and various ideas for responding. (The first half is interesting, too, but irrelevant to this.)

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/show-298-innovation-acceleration/id155974141?i=357166511&mt=2
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« Reply #52 on: November 15, 2015, 04:40:38 PM »

Victim blaming - awesome.
If you and I stand around slapping each other long enough that we can't remember who started it, which is the victim?
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Emily
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« Reply #53 on: November 15, 2015, 09:14:28 PM »

From Michael Savage...

Ha, Beanghazi posted something from Michael Weiner. Funny.

Also Bean, why doesn't Michael Weiner go by his real name instead of calling himself "Savage"?
I always confuse Michael Savage with Dan Savage. I expect neither would be pleased.
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Mike's Beard
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« Reply #54 on: November 15, 2015, 09:30:36 PM »

Victim blaming - awesome.
If you and I stand around slapping each other long enough that we can't remember who started it, which is the victim?
The victims here are clearly the people in Paris who were alive Friday morning and dead Friday night. You are showing empathy for Jihadists, a bunch of barbarians who take the Koran at it's every word and think they are justified in killing all non believers. Why don't you pop over to the Middle East and attempt to broker a truce with them? Tell us how that works out.
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Emily
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« Reply #55 on: November 15, 2015, 10:05:08 PM »

Victim blaming - awesome.
If you and I stand around slapping each other long enough that we can't remember who started it, which is the victim?
The victims here are clearly the people in Paris who were alive Friday morning and dead Friday night. You are showing empathy for Jihadists, a bunch of barbarians who take the Koran at it's every word and think they are justified in killing all non believers. Why don't you pop over to the Middle East and attempt to broker a truce with them? Tell us how that works out.
My dad used to occasionally advise the Muslim Brotherhood leadership on economic policy. Quite liked them. Humans are all human, you know? Oh, I forgot, you don't know. You think some, whom you haven't met, are somehow other than human. Unfortunately, this is the kind of thinking that fosters the exact circumstance we are all mourning. I think if you look in the mirror you'll see someone who is human, just as they are, and who is bigoted, just as they are, and who can't recognize that our mutual human faults are mutual, just as they can't. In fact, you'll see that your thinking is flawed in the exact same way that theirs is. And that flaw is what led them to this action.
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Emily
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« Reply #56 on: November 15, 2015, 11:12:39 PM »

Victim blaming - awesome.
If you and I stand around slapping each other long enough that we can't remember who started it, which is the victim?
The victims here are clearly the people in Paris who were alive Friday morning and dead Friday night. You are showing empathy for Jihadists, a bunch of barbarians who take the Koran at it's every word and think they are justified in killing all non believers. Why don't you pop over to the Middle East and attempt to broker a truce with them? Tell us how that works out.
The immediate victims of this immediate incident certainly were the individuals who died in Paris. So, for your "victim blaming" comment, how exactly did Rentatris blame those individuals for anything? ... Exactly. He didn't. Thus, your "victim blaming" comment was not about those victims. It was you insinuating that the victims were, who? You can figure it out. That's right, the people Rentatris indicated had some responsibility for this situation. Specifically, the U.S. and UK. Are you following or are you unable to keep up from one comment to another? You seem to have forgotten the meaning of your own manipulative comment.
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Mike's Beard
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« Reply #57 on: November 15, 2015, 11:39:48 PM »

Victim blaming - awesome.
If you and I stand around slapping each other long enough that we can't remember who started it, which is the victim?
The victims here are clearly the people in Paris who were alive Friday morning and dead Friday night. You are showing empathy for Jihadists, a bunch of barbarians who take the Koran at it's every word and think they are justified in killing all non believers. Why don't you pop over to the Middle East and attempt to broker a truce with them? Tell us how that works out.
My dad used to occasionally advise the Muslim Brotherhood leadership on economic policy. Quite liked them. Humans are all human, you know? Oh, I forgot, you don't know. You think some, whom you haven't met, are somehow other than human. Unfortunately, this is the kind of thinking that fosters the exact circumstance we are all mourning. I think if you look in the mirror you'll see someone who is human, just as they are, and who is bigoted, just as they are, and who can't recognize that our mutual human faults are mutual, just as they can't. In fact, you'll see that your thinking is flawed in the exact same way that theirs is. And that flaw is what led them to this action.
Speak for yourself but please don't ever liken me to the human swine you seem intent on defending, ta very much.
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Mike's Beard
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« Reply #58 on: November 15, 2015, 11:47:15 PM »

Victim blaming - awesome.
If you and I stand around slapping each other long enough that we can't remember who started it, which is the victim?
The victims here are clearly the people in Paris who were alive Friday morning and dead Friday night. You are showing empathy for Jihadists, a bunch of barbarians who take the Koran at it's every word and think they are justified in killing all non believers. Why don't you pop over to the Middle East and attempt to broker a truce with them? Tell us how that works out.
The immediate victims of this immediate incident certainly were the individuals who died in Paris. So, for your "victim blaming" comment, how exactly did Rentatris blame those individuals for anything? ... Exactly. He didn't. Thus, your "victim blaming" comment was not about those victims. It was you insinuating that the victims were, who? You can figure it out. That's right, the people Rentatris indicated had some responsibility for this situation. Specifically, the U.S. and UK. Are you following or are you unable to keep up from one comment to another? You seem to have forgotten the meaning of your own manipulative comment.

Nice logic twisting. The people who bear responsibilty for this situation are the ones who strapped on bombs and opened fire on innocent people. Please kindly tell me exactly who were oppressing the dogs that were living in France who commited these actions?
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Emily
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« Reply #59 on: November 16, 2015, 12:09:37 AM »

Victim blaming - awesome.
If you and I stand around slapping each other long enough that we can't remember who started it, which is the victim?
The victims here are clearly the people in Paris who were alive Friday morning and dead Friday night. You are showing empathy for Jihadists, a bunch of barbarians who take the Koran at it's every word and think they are justified in killing all non believers. Why don't you pop over to the Middle East and attempt to broker a truce with them? Tell us how that works out.
My dad used to occasionally advise the Muslim Brotherhood leadership on economic policy. Quite liked them. Humans are all human, you know? Oh, I forgot, you don't know. You think some, whom you haven't met, are somehow other than human. Unfortunately, this is the kind of thinking that fosters the exact circumstance we are all mourning. I think if you look in the mirror you'll see someone who is human, just as they are, and who is bigoted, just as they are, and who can't recognize that our mutual human faults are mutual, just as they can't. In fact, you'll see that your thinking is flawed in the exact same way that theirs is. And that flaw is what led them to this action.
Speak for yourself but please don't ever liken me to the human swine you seem intent on defending, ta very much.
Again, you exhibit that your way of thinking is very similar to theirs.
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Emily
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« Reply #60 on: November 16, 2015, 12:13:42 AM »

Victim blaming - awesome.
If you and I stand around slapping each other long enough that we can't remember who started it, which is the victim?
The victims here are clearly the people in Paris who were alive Friday morning and dead Friday night. You are showing empathy for Jihadists, a bunch of barbarians who take the Koran at it's every word and think they are justified in killing all non believers. Why don't you pop over to the Middle East and attempt to broker a truce with them? Tell us how that works out.
The immediate victims of this immediate incident certainly were the individuals who died in Paris. So, for your "victim blaming" comment, how exactly did Rentatris blame those individuals for anything? ... Exactly. He didn't. Thus, your "victim blaming" comment was not about those victims. It was you insinuating that the victims were, who? You can figure it out. That's right, the people Rentatris indicated had some responsibility for this situation. Specifically, the U.S. and UK. Are you following or are you unable to keep up from one comment to another? You seem to have forgotten the meaning of your own manipulative comment.

Nice logic twisting. The people who bear responsibilty for this situation are the ones who strapped on bombs and opened fire on innocent people. Please kindly tell me exactly who were oppressing the dogs that were living in France who commited these actions?
No, logic twisting is taking a comment about some countries' historical destabilizing actions and calling it "victim blaming" then when someone responds to that, trying to make that person look like a baddie by pretending the victims to whom you referred were those in Paris. That is manipulative underhanded logic twisting or just a sign of not being very bright, thus unable to follow your own line.
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Mike's Beard
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« Reply #61 on: November 16, 2015, 12:17:24 AM »

Victim blaming - awesome.
If you and I stand around slapping each other long enough that we can't remember who started it, which is the victim?
The victims here are clearly the people in Paris who were alive Friday morning and dead Friday night. You are showing empathy for Jihadists, a bunch of barbarians who take the Koran at it's every word and think they are justified in killing all non believers. Why don't you pop over to the Middle East and attempt to broker a truce with them? Tell us how that works out.
My dad used to occasionally advise the Muslim Brotherhood leadership on economic policy. Quite liked them. Humans are all human, you know? Oh, I forgot, you don't know. You think some, whom you haven't met, are somehow other than human. Unfortunately, this is the kind of thinking that fosters the exact circumstance we are all mourning. I think if you look in the mirror you'll see someone who is human, just as they are, and who is bigoted, just as they are, and who can't recognize that our mutual human faults are mutual, just as they can't. In fact, you'll see that your thinking is flawed in the exact same way that theirs is. And that flaw is what led them to this action.
Speak for yourself but please don't ever liken me to the human swine you seem intent on defending, ta very much.
Again, you exhibit that your way of thinking is very similar to theirs.

Big difference, I'm not killing people who don't follow my own faith.
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« Reply #62 on: November 16, 2015, 12:21:39 AM »

Victim blaming - awesome.
If you and I stand around slapping each other long enough that we can't remember who started it, which is the victim?
The victims here are clearly the people in Paris who were alive Friday morning and dead Friday night. You are showing empathy for Jihadists, a bunch of barbarians who take the Koran at it's every word and think they are justified in killing all non believers. Why don't you pop over to the Middle East and attempt to broker a truce with them? Tell us how that works out.
The immediate victims of this immediate incident certainly were the individuals who died in Paris. So, for your "victim blaming" comment, how exactly did Rentatris blame those individuals for anything? ... Exactly. He didn't. Thus, your "victim blaming" comment was not about those victims. It was you insinuating that the victims were, who? You can figure it out. That's right, the people Rentatris indicated had some responsibility for this situation. Specifically, the U.S. and UK. Are you following or are you unable to keep up from one comment to another? You seem to have forgotten the meaning of your own manipulative comment.

Nice logic twisting. The people who bear responsibilty for this situation are the ones who strapped on bombs and opened fire on innocent people. Please kindly tell me exactly who were oppressing the dogs that were living in France who commited these actions?
No, logic twisting is taking a comment about some countries' historical destabilizing actions and calling it "victim blaming" then when someone responds to that, trying to make that person look like a baddie by pretending the victims to whom you referred were those in Paris. That is manipulative underhanded logic twisting or just a sign of not being very bright, thus unable to follow your own line.

Sorry but you seem to be the one incapable of following the bouncing ball here. If someone states that acts of terrorism commited in one country are because of how other countries are treated then that is victim blaming.
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Emily
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« Reply #63 on: November 16, 2015, 01:00:37 AM »

Victim blaming - awesome.
If you and I stand around slapping each other long enough that we can't remember who started it, which is the victim?
The victims here are clearly the people in Paris who were alive Friday morning and dead Friday night. You are showing empathy for Jihadists, a bunch of barbarians who take the Koran at it's every word and think they are justified in killing all non believers. Why don't you pop over to the Middle East and attempt to broker a truce with them? Tell us how that works out.
The immediate victims of this immediate incident certainly were the individuals who died in Paris. So, for your "victim blaming" comment, how exactly did Rentatris blame those individuals for anything? ... Exactly. He didn't. Thus, your "victim blaming" comment was not about those victims. It was you insinuating that the victims were, who? You can figure it out. That's right, the people Rentatris indicated had some responsibility for this situation. Specifically, the U.S. and UK. Are you following or are you unable to keep up from one comment to another? You seem to have forgotten the meaning of your own manipulative comment.

Nice logic twisting. The people who bear responsibilty for this situation are the ones who strapped on bombs and opened fire on innocent people. Please kindly tell me exactly who were oppressing the dogs that were living in France who commited these actions?
No, logic twisting is taking a comment about some countries' historical destabilizing actions and calling it "victim blaming" then when someone responds to that, trying to make that person look like a baddie by pretending the victims to whom you referred were those in Paris. That is manipulative underhanded logic twisting or just a sign of not being very bright, thus unable to follow your own line.

Sorry but you seem to be the one incapable of following the bouncing ball here. If someone states that acts of terrorism commited in one country are because of how other countries are treated then that is victim blaming.

yes. See? In this post you are referring to victim-blaming countries which is not the same as victim-blaming the individuals in Paris. That's where you twisted it.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 01:27:51 AM by Emily » Logged
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« Reply #64 on: November 16, 2015, 01:07:46 AM »

This is getting too ugly. I'm out.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 01:27:21 AM by Emily » Logged
Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #65 on: November 16, 2015, 04:59:28 AM »

Victim blaming - awesome.
If you and I stand around slapping each other long enough that we can't remember who started it, which is the victim?
The victims here are clearly the people in Paris who were alive Friday morning and dead Friday night. You are showing empathy for Jihadists, a bunch of barbarians who take the Koran at it's every word and think they are justified in killing all non believers. Why don't you pop over to the Middle East and attempt to broker a truce with them? Tell us how that works out.
The immediate victims of this immediate incident certainly were the individuals who died in Paris. So, for your "victim blaming" comment, how exactly did Rentatris blame those individuals for anything? ... Exactly. He didn't. Thus, your "victim blaming" comment was not about those victims. It was you insinuating that the victims were, who? You can figure it out. That's right, the people Rentatris indicated had some responsibility for this situation. Specifically, the U.S. and UK. Are you following or are you unable to keep up from one comment to another? You seem to have forgotten the meaning of your own manipulative comment.

Nice logic twisting. The people who bear responsibilty for this situation are the ones who strapped on bombs and opened fire on innocent people. Please kindly tell me exactly who were oppressing the dogs that were living in France who commited these actions?

For one, as Emily has correctly pointed out, the victims in this case are not the same people who Rentaris was describing. Therefore your point about victim blaming amounts to nothing more than a rhetorical trick.

Second, it would be victim blaming if anyone was suggesting that the victims of the terrible tragedy on Friday somehow deserved what happened to them. I doubt anyone here would suggest such a ludicrous thing. Obviously, no one deserves that. Quite simply, if you actually care about stopping crimes, you want to find out why they happen. If you don't care then make all the angry substance-free speeches you want but let's not pretend that that's going to solve anything.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, when the US was gearing up to attack Iraq in 2003, intelligence agencies like the CIA as well as activist communities said that the attack was going to increase the threat of terror, not reduce it. This was always a crucial point because those who were in favour of the war at the time were making the case that removing Saddam Hussein from power would make the world safer even as the intelligence made clear that this was a groundless assumption. The US attacked and within two years the country had turned into the world's number one training ground for terrorism. It led to a sharp increase in Islamic fundamentalism unseen since its heyday in the 80s with the war in Afghanistan and Ronald Reagan's support of the Islamization of Pakistan. And as this was being made abundantly clear, those on the extreme right were making the case that, hey, there's no car bombs going off anymore, I guess we were right to support Bush all along and then plugged their ears and sang a jolly tune whenever someone tried pointing out the above. Intelligence has similarly noted that the drone campaigns throughout the region have had the effect of bolstering and increasing the threat of terror throughout the region.

It is an uncontroversial point that the aggressive actions throughout that part of the world have served to help establish, intensify, and bolster terrorist groups like ISIS. Does that give ISIS a free pass to create chaos and mayhem throughout the world? Of course not! What they did and who they are is despicable. But, again, if we are at all serious at trying to prevent these atrocities then we have to locate the cause of them. Calling it "victim blaming" is simply another tactic in the ongoing attempts to ensure instability. I was faced with the same kind of responses when I opposed the Iraq War on the grounds that I didn't want to see events like last Friday happening. But it's interesting how things go: In 2003, I was not supposed to say that the war would like to an increase in violence and instability because, well, I was wrong. But now that those predicted consequences have turned out to be true, I'm not supposed to mention it because it's inconsiderate. It's amazing how everything works out to ensure that this crucial point gets silenced no matter what has happened and what continues to happen.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 05:05:03 AM by Chocolate Shake Man » Logged
the captain
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« Reply #66 on: November 16, 2015, 06:04:01 AM »

I believe the youngins might say #FallingForIt

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/hating-muslim-refugees-is-exactly-what-the-islamic-state-wants-europe-to-do/2015/11/15/dfe0ca84-87d1-11e5-be39-0034bb576eee_story.html?hpid=hp_opinions-for-wide-side_opinion-card-a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory
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« Reply #67 on: November 16, 2015, 06:23:12 AM »

Agreed, great article showing the true goal of the attacks!
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« Reply #68 on: November 16, 2015, 06:35:24 AM »

Holy hand-hockey... talk about rhetorical tricks.  LOL

Ya'll need to write this sh-t down, cuz I'm about to drop some b-mbs!  Afro

Psychotic.  Raping.  Murdering.  Cowards.
If you feel the need to assign them purpose, do so in the privacy of your own home, cuz that's some perverted sht.  And these people see it.  They walk into schools, Einsteins.  They burst into rock concerts... and just start blasting away.  And you feel a need to explain and broadcast their reasons for them?  Bravo!

When some loser drags a woman into his loser car and rapes her -- do you look for reason?  Probably not, because that would only celebrate it.  Likewise... terrorists.  People of this mindset are also looking for reasons -- and you're gonna broadcast that?

Some twisted psychotic creep walked up to a reporter and executed her, and posted it on YouTube.  His reasons were?  How about who the fck cares?  Know this... his reasons seemed more and more legit to him with each leftwing broadcast analysis of why people can, should and do act out like this.  It's the gun's fault.  It's society.  It's whitey.  It's oppression.  It's America.

Oy.  How about shut-the-fck-up and let us handle this?!  You lefties need to take a timeout.

They are not attacking us because we annihilated Saddam Hussein's house of torture.  Or because we have a military base somewhere.  Get the fck outta here with that sht!  They are attacking us precisely because they see opportunity in weakness.  Clinton.  Obama.  YOUR weakness.  And no, there's not a damn reason for it.  So just stop it.  Stop.  You're not gonna crack the case.  You're not.  You're just not.  Because, there's not a damn thing ANYBODY EVER DOES to cause this.

You can only tolerate and allow more of it.  Stop playing into their hands.




It's time for some serious soul searching, ya'll.  Please put the precious Left-wing ideology aside -- for 5 fcking minutes.  It'll be there when you come back -- trust me, nobody else wants it.  If not, you're only displaying and broadcasting to a world full of psychos, that you're weak, you have the inability to do anything about it, and in their minds -- it's their time to go all in.  They're not smart, we hold the cards.

Otherwise, you are only continuing to unleash great pain on the world.  It's time to unleash it on them.  We got this.  Sit this one out.  But that's NEVER gonna happen because liberals can never shut the fck up.
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« Reply #69 on: November 16, 2015, 06:39:38 AM »

This is getting too ugly. I'm out.
Emily - it can get contentious here, but is a place to exchange information.  These are severe days where we need to be helping each other and to help keep informing each other. 

Don't let anyone "run you off the road."   Wink

http://www.clarionproject.org/news/islamic-state-isis-isil-propaganda-magazine-dabiq

Hope it copies.    Wink
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« Reply #70 on: November 16, 2015, 06:42:58 AM »

We got this? Lol. It certainly went well under the neocons. (So far both parties have proven themselves entirely inept.) Inspiring stuff.

The tough talk remains adorable.
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« Reply #71 on: November 16, 2015, 06:56:08 AM »

The center must hold for a solution to these trying times.
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« Reply #72 on: November 16, 2015, 07:14:28 AM »

This is getting too ugly. I'm out.
Emily - it can get contentious here, but is a place to exchange information.  These are severe days where we need to be helping each other and to help keep informing each other.  

Don't let anyone "run you off the road."   Wink

http://www.clarionproject.org/news/islamic-state-isis-isil-propaganda-magazine-dabiq

Hope it copies.    Wink
I had just written two very nasty and sarcastic posts. I reread them and realized that I was being drawn into the same kind of irrational retaliatory thinking that I am objecting to. So I edited those two post to one less nasty and one that withdrew because I try not to be a jerk even though sometimes it spills out.
But thanks  Smiley
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« Reply #73 on: November 16, 2015, 07:20:25 AM »

This is getting too ugly. I'm out.
Emily - it can get contentious here, but is a place to exchange information.  These are severe days where we need to be helping each other and to help keep informing each other. 

Don't let anyone "run you off the road."   Wink

http://www.clarionproject.org/news/islamic-state-isis-isil-propaganda-magazine-dabiq

Hope it copies.    Wink
That's interesting reading. As Rentatris pointed out, everyone thinks they're the good guy. Unfortunately, we're all mistaken. We're all just adjusting our world view to fit our social-economic interest in the end. Some of us are self-aware enough to know that's where our impulses come from and try to temper them a bit to support policies that are closer to the philosophy we'd like to think we hold.
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« Reply #74 on: November 16, 2015, 07:27:04 AM »

Holy hand-hockey... talk about rhetorical tricks.  LOL

Ya'll need to write this sh-t down, cuz I'm about to drop some b-mbs!  Afro

Psychotic.  Raping.  Murdering.  Cowards.
If you feel the need to assign them purpose, do so in the privacy of your own home, cuz that's some perverted sht.  And these people see it.  They walk into schools, Einsteins.  They burst into rock concerts... and just start blasting away.  And you feel a need to explain and broadcast their reasons for them?  Bravo!

When some loser drags a woman into his loser car and rapes her -- do you look for reason?  Probably not, because that would only celebrate it.  Likewise... terrorists.  People of this mindset are also looking for reasons -- and you're gonna broadcast that?

Some twisted psychotic creep walked up to a reporter and executed her, and posted it on YouTube.  His reasons were?  How about who the fck cares?  Know this... his reasons seemed more and more legit to him with each leftwing broadcast analysis of why people can, should and do act out like this.  It's the gun's fault.  It's society.  It's whitey.  It's oppression.  It's America.

Oy.  How about shut-the-fck-up and let us handle this?!  You lefties need to take a timeout.

They are not attacking us because we annihilated Saddam Hussein's house of torture.  Or because we have a military base somewhere.  Get the fck outta here with that sht!  They are attacking us precisely because they see opportunity in weakness.  Clinton.  Obama.  YOUR weakness.  And no, there's not a damn reason for it.  So just stop it.  Stop.  You're not gonna crack the case.  You're not.  You're just not.  Because, there's not a damn thing ANYBODY EVER DOES to cause this.

You can only tolerate and allow more of it.  Stop playing into their hands.




It's time for some serious soul searching, ya'll.  Please put the precious Left-wing ideology aside -- for 5 fcking minutes.  It'll be there when you come back -- trust me, nobody else wants it.  If not, you're only displaying and broadcasting to a world full of psychos, that you're weak, you have the inability to do anything about it, and in their minds -- it's their time to go all in.  They're not smart, we hold the cards.

Otherwise, you are only continuing to unleash great pain on the world.  It's time to unleash it on them.  We got this.  Sit this one out.  But that's NEVER gonna happen because liberals can never shut the fck up.
I find it interesting that some people think they know so intimately the motives and impulses driving people they've never interacted with even though, given tons of historical evidence, those are very unlikely to be the motives and impulses. It's an interesting projection and says a lot about human psychology.
If millions of people have behaved the same way in the past, why believe the motives and impulses of this particular set of people are different from those millions?
frankly, it's just dumb.
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