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Author Topic: Did The Association fill the void left by The Beach Boys from 1967-68?  (Read 5788 times)
Zesterz
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« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2015, 09:20:41 AM »

Dont confuse their image with the reality ; the band were worked round the clock, most of the year. They would come off tour, had contracts to fulfil for record releases and had to learn songs from scratch to fulfilment ( in only 3 weeks in the case of  the whole BIRTHDAY LP...during which same 3 weeks they were also offered a suite by Jim Webb.....one part of which was MacArthur Park ).
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« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2015, 08:44:00 PM »

Ya...I think The Association is getting the sh*t end of the stick here.  Their harmonies, vocal arrangements and individual voices were pretty amazing.  And they had several guys who could handle leads with ease right from the get-go.  Except for the business suits 'look' for a couple of lps...they didn't wear dorky clothes.  They didn't get tarnished with a limiting image like surfin' songs and car tunes ultimately did in terms of affecting the 'Boys'.  And they didn't have some guy yackin' into the mic at their concerts with a mocking lisp...or just standing around doing 'the jerk' while everyone else contributed to the musical presentation.  So...I don't know that they come across as 'squares' compared to the sand-pail sailors at all.  

Their first lp actually had such well rounded variety included in terms of their  over-all group versatility that the lp contained songs with an edge and some bite to them.  That likely had something to do with producer Curt Boettcher's input.  2 things...1.  Why didn't they stay with him?  He made it work.  and 2.  How do you pronounce his name?  I've always wondered since I first saw it on the album cover back in '66.  The album?  Along Comes the Association.  I didn't much 'dig' their 2nd lp.  Too soft.  Too one dimensional.  But from Birthday on...I thought that they were really, REALLY good.  Maybe they needed a little more Curt?
« Last Edit: November 15, 2015, 08:58:20 PM by Add Some » Logged

"Add Some...Music...To Your Day.  I do.  It's the only way to fly.  Well...what was I gonna put here?  An apple a day keeps the doctor away?  Hum me a few bars."   Lee Marshall [2014]

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« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2015, 10:40:10 PM »

Oh, no question about the harmonies ! Stellar isn't the word.
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« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2015, 10:54:56 PM »

I've always loved this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQJi6_-PjHo
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EgoHanger1966
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« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2015, 12:12:55 PM »


Their first lp actually had such well rounded variety included in terms of their  over-all group versatility that the lp contained songs with an edge and some bite to them.  That likely had something to do with producer Curt Boettcher's input.  2 things...1.  Why didn't they stay with him?  He made it work.  and 2.  How do you pronounce his name?  I've always wondered since I first saw it on the album cover back in '66.

Bet-Sure
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Lonely Summer
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« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2015, 12:14:27 PM »

How many hits did the Association have? Never My Love, Windy, Along Comes Mary, Cherish...am I missing any?
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JK
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« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2015, 12:51:54 PM »

How many hits did the Association have? Never My Love, Windy, Along Comes Mary, Cherish...am I missing any?

They had a #10 Billboard and #11 Cashbox hit in 1968 with "Everything That Touches You"...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4I3p7aKzbc 

...and two years earlier the wonderfully spooky "Pandora's Golden Heebie Jeebies" reached #35 and #26 on the Billboard and Cashbox charts respectively:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WCcpKpUREs

There were some minor hits too...

[Source]

 
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« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2015, 01:47:39 PM »

1.  Why didn't they stay with him?  He made it work.  and 2.  How do you pronounce his name?  I've always wondered since I first saw it on the album cover back in '66.

1. He was using the band's sound as his personal creative plaything

2. BETCH-er
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« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2015, 04:35:35 PM »

RIP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUD7EJfTNz0
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« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2015, 04:42:13 PM »

This is kind of a good point and I think there might be some validity to it.
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« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2015, 06:24:55 PM »

Time For Livin' and 6 Man Band were also Association singles which I bought back in the day.  Pandora's Golden Heebie Geebie remains an all time favouite.  I also VERY much enjoyed Requiem For the Masses.  They had loads of GREAT album cuts/tracks along the way.

I saw them live WELL after the fact.  Comedian David Brenner was the opening act and a LARGE crowd...maybe 12,000 strong were also there and on hand to catch the Association circa 1984?  It was at the Kingswood Music Theatre at Canada's Wonderland.   They DELIVERED the 'goods' live. Cool Guy
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ps...Thanks for the 'pronouncers'.  So it was  Sert Betcher then?  Wink
I honestly NEVER heard his name spoken.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 06:27:47 PM by Add Some » Logged

"Add Some...Music...To Your Day.  I do.  It's the only way to fly.  Well...what was I gonna put here?  An apple a day keeps the doctor away?  Hum me a few bars."   Lee Marshall [2014]

Donald  TRUMP!  ...  Is TOAST.  "What a disaster."  "Overrated?"... ... ..."BIG LEAGUE."  "Lots of people are saying it"  "I will tell you that."   Collusion, Money Laundering, Treason.   B'Bye Dirty Donnie!!!  Adios!!!  Bon Voyage!!!  Toodles!!!  Move yourself...SPANKY!!!  Jail awaits.  It's NO "Witch Hunt". There IS Collusion...and worse.  The Russian Mafia!!  Conspiracies!!  Fraud!!  This racist is goin' down...and soon.  Good Riddance.  And take the kids.
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« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2015, 03:44:54 PM »

I think they were a pretty incredible group.  I had a college roommate who insisted that the Assn. was a modern version of the BBs.  I disagreed with him, as he was talking about how irrelevant the BBs were in 1970 because they had done surf and hot rod music.  Huh?

Everything That Touches You was really pretty amazing, the harmonies, and also Along Came Mary I think sometimes is overlooked because of over familiarity, but that too is an incredible vocal harmonic performance.

Don't know exactly what void they would have filled vis a vis the BBs in that time period.  Boys were still recording and no one could be the BBs better than the BBs.

You could just as easily ask, did the Turtles fill the void of the BBs, etc.  Er, no.  But they too were pretty good on their own terms.

Lots of different harmony groups back then and none of them really replaced each other.

Except America did replace CS&N!  Just keeding!!
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Lonely Summer
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« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2015, 10:51:20 PM »

When was the Association's run of hits? 66-67? were they on the charts as late as 69/70? It's not like the Beach Boys were absent from radio in those years. Heroes and Villains, Darlin', Do it Again, I Can Hear Music were top 40 hits. The album sales were down considerably AFTER Pet Sounds (so sick of seeing that called a commercial failure), but they were around. The early 70's were a much tougher time for them as far as singles.
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JK
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« Reply #38 on: November 18, 2015, 01:25:04 PM »

When was the Association's run of hits? 66-67? were they on the charts as late as 69/70? It's not like the Beach Boys were absent from radio in those years. Heroes and Villains, Darlin', Do it Again, I Can Hear Music were top 40 hits. The album sales were down considerably AFTER Pet Sounds (so sick of seeing that called a commercial failure), but they were around. The early 70's were a much tougher time for them as far as singles.

Their last top 20 (and top 50) hit was in 1968: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Association#Other_releases
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hideyotsuburaya
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« Reply #39 on: November 18, 2015, 01:45:26 PM »

The Association's 1st producer Curt Boettcher was "using the band's sound as his own creative plaything".  Hmmm, sounds like a power struggle to me.  He gave the group--then unknown on a rinky-dink label--2 chart topping hits (ACM & C)and what does that get him in the end?----Fired.  I've also read Associations members when queried about this in more recent years say they really don't remember why Curt was let go, except that they wanted to take a stab at producing their own sound just the way they wanted.  The resulting album was RENAISSAINCE with a beautiful lead single NO FAIR AT ALL which although a favorite of mine didn't give the same chart results as its predecessors (the band had nice flute solo's when other acts stuck with the tried and true guitar solo, which worked once but not repeatedly).  My own take on all this was the label VALIANT was about to be sold to Warner Bros. at that time and the late Mr. Boettcher didn't want to go along with the act on that point for reasons unknown
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Lonely Summer
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« Reply #40 on: November 18, 2015, 11:05:38 PM »

When was the Association's run of hits? 66-67? were they on the charts as late as 69/70? It's not like the Beach Boys were absent from radio in those years. Heroes and Villains, Darlin', Do it Again, I Can Hear Music were top 40 hits. The album sales were down considerably AFTER Pet Sounds (so sick of seeing that called a commercial failure), but they were around. The early 70's were a much tougher time for them as far as singles.

Their last top 20 (and top 50) hit was in 1968: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Association#Other_releases
So they really were not a "hot" act after the BB's dropped off the charts. The BB's may have cooled off somewhat commercially, 1967-69, but they were still present.
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Jim McShane
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« Reply #41 on: November 19, 2015, 10:22:29 AM »

Their self-titled 1969 Album "The Association" reached #32 on the charts, it was IMHO their best album. Songs like "The Nest", "Under Branches", "Love Affair" (featuring the amazing tenor voice of Jim Yester) are stunning. Listen to the harmony in "The Nest" or Jules Alexander's "Dubuque Blues" - I find them to be as good as any I've ever heard. I was lucky enough to hear the band live in 1971 and heard Ted Bluechel, Larry Ramos, and Jim Yester perform "What Were The Words" live on acoustic guitar. It was breathtaking.

Their later singles "Names,Tags, Numbers, and Labels" reached #27 on the adult contemporary chart; "Dreamer" hit #17 on the same chart.

So did they fill a void? I don't think so, but The Association made some incredible music, the best of which I think was up there with the best of the BBs in the 1968-1970 or 71 period.
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« Reply #42 on: November 19, 2015, 02:39:21 PM »

I will say "Cherish" is definitely a favorite of mine.  One I've leaned onto one too many times.   Undecided
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« Reply #43 on: November 19, 2015, 04:49:10 PM »

Sort of/kinda.  I am a big Association fan.  After Cherish and Along Comes Mary...they slowly began to gather momentum...but their slick sound became passe.  Too bad.  Next to the Boys...these guys had great albums.  I also very much enjoyed the Turtles progressions...'til they saw the writing on the wall.  I'll never forget them BLOWING Iron Butterfly off the stage in Toronto...Massey Hall,  IB with Inagadadavida.  The Turtles with the whole Battle of the Band lp at their disposal.  It was no contest.  Howard, Mark, Jim, Al and Johnny Barbata on drums ate IB for breakfast, lunch and dinner.  The Mamas and Papas were limited.  Too much in the way of extra-curricular daliances.  There was no way they were ever gonna last...no matter how much Ed Sullivan saw them as wholesome.  And they only had 1 creative source who was pretty much a one-trick pony.

The Beach Boys made there own void.  It was "deep and wide" and great lps after Smiley Smile were never going to make up for Smiley Smile.  THAT album could not be retracted and the Beach Boys were done as far as the record buying public was concerned.  In a sense...they pretty quickly took all of the groups they had influenced down the toilet with them.  THAT was over until Jack Reiley reinvented them and sent them out to perform.  The world pretty much missed Wild Honey, Friends, 20/20 and Sunflower.  4 great albums tossed onto the 'who gives a sh*t' pile by Smiley Smile and the reaction it got from the world.  A solid NO THANKS!!!  Bye Bye.  Next!!!

There was a relaunch of sorts when Surf's Up came along.  But when Jack was done...so too were the Beach Boys as a solid and successful recording act.  They just never had enough great material gathered and ready to release at any given time which would make the release of another album noteworthy or valid for the public at large.  It's part of the reason why SO FEW of the songs recorded after Holland ever get performed.

There's Rock 'n' Roll Music and a few other covers.  Good Timin' and...and...and...Brian's solo material in limited doses.  Smiley Smile stuff?  Sure Good Vibrations and Heroes and Villains...but they were pretty much there by 'accident'.  Love You stuff?  Nada.  A great live band(s) which stopped amazing the masses with new music a LONG time ago.
------------------------------------------

Sorry I forgot about Kokomo...almost SADLY really...it's now become THE favourite song performed at a Beach Boys [not Brian Wilson] show.   From 1973 on...'cept for Brian D's works/shows...there ain't much there that really makes the grade.  You could almost successfully argue that we here are just fooling ourselves.  But heh!!!  It's worth it I guess.


Good read, nicely sums up the whole era.
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« Reply #44 on: November 19, 2015, 04:53:19 PM »

The Mamas and Papas came back together to record one last lp...with John, Michelle, Denny and Cass...  'People Like Us' was done in 1971 I believe.  Pretty decent album actually.  I had it back then.  I got it again on CD from Amazon about a year ago.
My favorite Ms&Ps records. Great LP.

 
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