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Author Topic: Rocky Pamplin book about The Beach Boys?  (Read 489814 times)
SurfRiderHawaii
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« Reply #500 on: January 09, 2016, 01:59:06 PM »

Brian's issues have been more than well documented.

What's facinating are the other psychological aspects of this thread. I am no shrink but the sociopathic traits being displayed by this individual are rather disturbing.
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« Reply #501 on: January 09, 2016, 02:15:54 PM »

Brian's issues have been more than well documented.

What's facinating are the other psychological aspects of this thread. I am no shrink but the sociopathic traits being displayed by this individual are rather disturbing.

I don't think Mr Pamplin is a sociopath (though trying to Internet-diagnose people is a fool's errand). He's showing far too little self-awareness for that.
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« Reply #502 on: January 09, 2016, 02:23:45 PM »

Brian's issues have been more than well documented.

What's facinating are the other psychological aspects of this thread. I am no shrink but the sociopathic traits being displayed by this individual are rather disturbing.

I don't think Mr Pamplin is a sociopath (though trying to Internet-diagnose people is a fool's errand). He's showing far too little self-awareness for that.

Not only does he show no guilt over assaulting Carl, beating the crap out of Dennis, sleeping with Brian's wife and promoting a product that kills millions every year, he seems mighty proud of himself! Do some research Andrew on what a sociopath is. The traits are very clearly and universally defined. A lot more easily done that trying to diagnose Brian, which is done unendingly here on the Board.
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« Reply #503 on: January 09, 2016, 02:38:18 PM »

Brian's issues have been more than well documented.

What's facinating are the other psychological aspects of this thread. I am no shrink but the sociopathic traits being displayed by this individual are rather disturbing.

I don't think Mr Pamplin is a sociopath (though trying to Internet-diagnose people is a fool's errand). He's showing far too little self-awareness for that.

Not only does he show no guilt over assaulting Carl, beating the crap out of Dennis, sleeping with Brian's wife and promoting a product that kills millions every year, he seems mighty proud of himself! Do some research Andrew on what a sociopath is. The traits are very clearly and universally defined. A lot more easily done that trying to diagnose Brian, which is done unendingly here on the Board.


Being violent and remorseless, while reprehensible, are not in themselves the only criteria for psychopathy (the term "sociopath" is not usually used these days). Pamplin certainly hasn't checked off more than a few of the boxes on the Hare psychopathy scale in his responses here.

(And no, I don't approve of the attempts to Internet-diagnose Brian either, although discussion of what he's already revealed about himself seems reasonable.)
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« Reply #504 on: January 09, 2016, 02:41:25 PM »

Brian's issues have been more than well documented.

What's facinating are the other psychological aspects of this thread. I am no shrink but the sociopathic traits being displayed by this individual are rather disturbing.

I don't think Mr Pamplin is a sociopath (though trying to Internet-diagnose people is a fool's errand). He's showing far too little self-awareness for that.

Not only does he show no guilt over assaulting Carl, beating the crap out of Dennis, sleeping with Brian's wife and promoting a product that kills millions every year, he seems mighty proud of himself! Do some research Andrew on what a sociopath is. The traits are very clearly and universally defined. A lot more easily done that trying to diagnose Brian, which is done unendingly here on the Board.


Being violent and remorseless, while reprehensible, are not in themselves the only criteria for psychopathy (the term "sociopath" is not usually used these days). Pamplin certainly hasn't checked off more than a few of the boxes on the Hare psychopathy scale in his responses here.

(And no, I don't approve of the attempts to Internet-diagnose Brian either, although discussion of what he's already revealed about himself seems reasonable.)

Agree Andrew.
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« Reply #505 on: January 09, 2016, 03:23:09 PM »

Hey everyone,

I didn't mean to derail the thread with my questions.... I didn't mean to interrupt that conversation!
Don't worry, Chownow. It's not so much of a conversation.
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« Reply #506 on: January 09, 2016, 04:18:19 PM »

Brian's issues have been more than well documented.

What's facinating are the other psychological aspects of this thread. I am no shrink but the sociopathic traits being displayed by this individual are rather disturbing.

I don't think Mr Pamplin is a sociopath (though trying to Internet-diagnose people is a fool's errand). He's showing far too little self-awareness for that.

Not only does he show no guilt over assaulting Carl, beating the crap out of Dennis, sleeping with Brian's wife and promoting a product that kills millions every year, he seems mighty proud of himself! Do some research Andrew on what a sociopath is. The traits are very clearly and universally defined. A lot more easily done that trying to diagnose Brian, which is done unendingly here on the Board.


Rocky, even though I disapprove of your actions, I am wrong to judge! My apologies. You have a story to tell and you had a unique place in BB history!

You hinted about some unheard info involving Stephen and the lyric trial. Can you elaborate on that. I think Stephen's posts on M vs. C were very interesting! I think his posting here would be welcomed!
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« Reply #507 on: January 09, 2016, 05:17:48 PM »



Rocky, even though I disapprove of your actions, I am wrong to judge! My apologies. You have a story to tell and you had a unique place in BB history!

You hinted about some unheard info involving Stephen and the lyric trial. Can you elaborate on that. I think Stephen's posts on M vs. C were very interesting! I think his posting here would be welcomed!
Philosophical question, not just for Oregon River Rider but for anyone who cares to respond: I've seen many people say some version of "I am wrong to judge" on this thread. Why is it wrong to judge? Is there no moral or ethical right and wrong other than it being wrong to judge?
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« Reply #508 on: January 09, 2016, 05:31:46 PM »

You know, I’ve been looking at this thread and remember being a 17 year old sorting through the fan mail and answering the phones at the Ivar offices in 69-70.  Suddenly, I started seeing this young, bright, red-haired man apprenticing to Nick Grillo.  They explained to me that this was Mike Love’s brother Steve who was magna cum laude at USC.  Having known that very young man, I’ve been wondering if he might tell us about his life from then, through being the BBs manager through today.
 
I’d like to join the others who are curious to see Steve post here.
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« Reply #509 on: January 09, 2016, 05:34:36 PM »

Emily. If I don't know 'all the facts' I personally would say I am wrong to judge. I don't know much about Rocky's time with the group so I won't use the Beach Boys or that tour or what happened during it to make my point.

Person A hits person B, for what reason, who threw the first punch, were there witnesses, alcohol, drugs, a previous incident, self defence or what ever. Unless I know for sure, I am wrong to judge.
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« Reply #510 on: January 09, 2016, 05:38:43 PM »



Rocky, even though I disapprove of your actions, I am wrong to judge! My apologies. You have a story to tell and you had a unique place in BB history!

You hinted about some unheard info involving Stephen and the lyric trial. Can you elaborate on that. I think Stephen's posts on M vs. C were very interesting! I think his posting here would be welcomed!
Philosophical question, not just for Oregon River Rider but for anyone who cares to respond: I've seen many people say some version of "I am wrong to judge" on this thread. Why is it wrong to judge? Is there no moral or ethical right and wrong other than it being wrong to judge?
What I meant was it's wrong of me to put a label on Rocky. I can't see his eyes, hear his voice. He is holding back on a lot of things.  Is he emphasizing the villan to stir interest in his book? I have been pretty outspoken in my disapproval of his actions.  But I am wrong to label him as this or that. Civil discourse, as Billy put it. He deserves to tell his whole story!
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« Reply #511 on: January 09, 2016, 05:43:40 PM »

Emily. If I don't know 'all the facts' I personally would say I am wrong to judge. I don't know much about Rocky's time with the group so I won't use the Beach Boys or that tour or what happened during it to make my point.

Person A hits person B, for what reason, who threw the first punch, were there witnesses, alcohol, drugs, a previous incident, self defence or what ever. Unless I know for sure, I am wrong to judge.
Shouldn't matter what the reason is, when you work for someone you don't punch him in the face, unless they struck you first. From anything that I have read about the incident, that did not occur. Even Rocky's explanation to me here never mentioned that he was struck first.
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The Brianista Prayer

Oh Brian
Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
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« Reply #512 on: January 09, 2016, 05:44:44 PM »

Emily. If I don't know 'all the facts' I personally would say I am wrong to judge. I don't know much about Rocky's time with the group so I won't use the Beach Boys or that tour or what happened during it to make my point.

Person A hits person B, for what reason, who threw the first punch, were there witnesses, alcohol, drugs, a previous incident, self defence or what ever. Unless I know for sure, I am wrong to judge.
I agree that there are cases where one doesn't have enough facts to judge, but in this case the guy who threw the first punch has told us his motives. Is it then wrong to judge? How much information do you need to make a judgment? He's admitted he did it and told us why.
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« Reply #513 on: January 09, 2016, 06:41:46 PM »

Emily. If I don't know 'all the facts' I personally would say I am wrong to judge. I don't know much about Rocky's time with the group so I won't use the Beach Boys or that tour or what happened during it to make my point.

Person A hits person B, for what reason, who threw the first punch, were there witnesses, alcohol, drugs, a previous incident, self defence or what ever. Unless I know for sure, I am wrong to judge.
Shouldn't matter what the reason is, when you work for someone you don't punch him in the face, unless they struck you first. From anything that I have read about the incident, that did not occur. Even Rocky's explanation to me here never mentioned that he was struck first.

Funny you mention an employer/ employee disagreement today....

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11571704

Just because someone pays your salary does not make them right all the time. As I mentioned above, I'm not too familiar with the incident mainly because it was such a bad period that I would prefer to avoid. Christchurch 1978 was my first concert and the start of my enjoyment of all things Beach Boys. Rose tinted glasses and all.  Guess I better start searching.

 Thud
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« Reply #514 on: January 09, 2016, 07:53:27 PM »

Emily. If I don't know 'all the facts' I personally would say I am wrong to judge. I don't know much about Rocky's time with the group so I won't use the Beach Boys or that tour or what happened during it to make my point.

Person A hits person B, for what reason, who threw the first punch, were there witnesses, alcohol, drugs, a previous incident, self defence or what ever. Unless I know for sure, I am wrong to judge.
Shouldn't matter what the reason is, when you work for someone you don't punch him in the face, unless they struck you first. From anything that I have read about the incident, that did not occur. Even Rocky's explanation to me here never mentioned that he was struck first.

Funny you mention an employer/ employee disagreement today....

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11571704

Just because someone pays your salary does not make them right all the time. As I mentioned above, I'm not too familiar with the incident mainly because it was such a bad period that I would prefer to avoid. Christchurch 1978 was my first concert and the start of my enjoyment of all things Beach Boys. Rose tinted glasses and all.  Guess I better start searching.

 Thud
I never said Carl was right, but punching him in the face while he is paying your salary is not a smart thing.
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The Brianista Prayer

Oh Brian
Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
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« Reply #515 on: January 09, 2016, 08:02:34 PM »

Emily. If I don't know 'all the facts' I personally would say I am wrong to judge. I don't know much about Rocky's time with the group so I won't use the Beach Boys or that tour or what happened during it to make my point.

Person A hits person B, for what reason, who threw the first punch, were there witnesses, alcohol, drugs, a previous incident, self defence or what ever. Unless I know for sure, I am wrong to judge.
Shouldn't matter what the reason is, when you work for someone you don't punch him in the face, unless they struck you first. From anything that I have read about the incident, that did not occur. Even Rocky's explanation to me here never mentioned that he was struck first.

Funny you mention an employer/ employee disagreement today....

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11571704

Just because someone pays your salary does not make them right all the time. As I mentioned above, I'm not too familiar with the incident mainly because it was such a bad period that I would prefer to avoid. Christchurch 1978 was my first concert and the start of my enjoyment of all things Beach Boys. Rose tinted glasses and all.  Guess I better start searching.

 Thud
I never said Carl was right, but punching him in the face while he is paying your salary is not a smart thing.
It's outside of my moral code to punch someone in the face whether they are right, wrong, my employer or not. The only reason to punch someone in the face is if it's the only means to stop something worse from happening. So, if they were about to kill someone, using physical force to stop them would be OK. If they said something insulting to you and were eating too many cold cuts and their brothers got some money and some heroin or something like that, using physical force to ?? I don't even know the purpose ?? is not.
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« Reply #516 on: January 09, 2016, 09:52:51 PM »

I guess the way I'd look at it is I tend to withhold judgment on peoples' actions without a full understanding of the environment (including reacting to the people around them) that they were in and the options they had at the time.  Judging people to the extent that we encounter them by their own words and actions in the present day is different, and seems fair game to me, though withholding final judgment until you understand context is good no matter who you're dealing with.

Forming provisional opinions is always appropriate, though.  Particularly when parts of them are more or less thrust in one's face.
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« Reply #517 on: January 09, 2016, 09:59:22 PM »

I guess the way I'd look at it is I tend to withhold judgment on peoples' actions without a full understanding of the environment (including reacting to the people around them) that they were in and the options they had at the time.  Judging people to the extent that we encounter them by their own words and actions in the present day is different, and seems fair game to me, though withholding final judgment until you understand context is good no matter who you're dealing with.

Forming provisional opinions is always appropriate, though.  Particularly when parts of them are more or less thrust in one's face.

Beautifully said, Sir.
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« Reply #518 on: January 09, 2016, 10:21:18 PM »

I guess the way I'd look at it is I tend to withhold judgment on peoples' actions without a full understanding of the environment (including reacting to the people around them) that they were in and the options they had at the time.  Judging people to the extent that we encounter them by their own words and actions in the present day is different, and seems fair game to me, though withholding final judgment until you understand context is good no matter who you're dealing with.

Forming provisional opinions is always appropriate, though.  Particularly when parts of them are more or less thrust in one's face.
Do you believe there are no absolute wrongs? Everything is OK depending on context? Every event is in a unique context, so if morality is dependent on the immediate context, one can't say until it happens that any action is wrong. And one can never have a full understanding of an environment, so really one can never make a moral judgment at all.
To me, context can make doing something morally wrong understandable and might be able to excite my empathy, but that doesn't mean wrong is no longer wrong.
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« Reply #519 on: January 10, 2016, 12:04:32 AM »

Emily - I think anyone with an ounce of common sense is listening to you and would agree that these things that happened some 40 years ago were f***ed-up.

If you want Rocky to publicly say "I was morally wrong to do what I did, I wish I hadn't, what can I do to make it up to Brian, Carl, and Add Some?" I don't think that's gonna (going to) happen based on Rocky's current replies.

This thread, the Man vs Clown debacle and a tome or 2 seem to indicate that Rocky & Steve feel justified re how they handled things.

It was a toxic environment back then, was anyone behaving well?

Steve Love punched out Blondie Chaplin a few years earlier for dissing him. Dennis on the tour in New Zealand beat up his wife Karen Lamm, breaking her sternum in three places according to reports; Carl slipped Dennis $100 to get pinned.  Brian was on this tour because the promoter and the band/famiy wanted the bread ala goose that laid the golden egg - the Brian needs to be out there being creating thing is a crock (imo for that bit).  Murry sold the catalogue.

These actions may not be within the bounds of your moral code (nor mine, btw), but let’s not miss the chance to get this stuff documented as is - and learn from the mistakes.
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« Reply #520 on: January 10, 2016, 12:09:57 AM »

Emily - I think anyone with an ounce of common sense is listening to you and would agree that these things that happened some 40 years ago were f***ed-up.

If you want Rocky to publicly say "I was morally wrong to do what I did, I wish I hadn't, what can I do to make it up to Brian, Carl, and Add Some?" I don't think that's gonna (going to) happen based on Rocky's current replies.

This thread, the Man vs Clown debacle and a tome or 2 seem to indicate that Rocky & Steve feel justified re how they handled things.

It was a toxic environment back then, was anyone behaving well?

Steve Love punched out Blondie Chaplin a few years earlier for dissing him. Dennis on the tour in New Zealand beat up his wife Karen Lamm, breaking her sternum in three places according to reports; Carl slipped Dennis $100 to get pinned.  Brian was on this tour because the promoter and the band/famiy wanted the bread ala goose that laid the golden egg - the Brian needs to be out there being creating thing is a crock (imo for that bit).  Murry sold the catalogue.

These actions may not be within the bounds of your moral code (nor mine, btw), but let’s not miss the chance to get this stuff documented as is - and learn from the mistakes.
Hi Alan,
Thanks for that response. I agree Rocky Pamplin will not say what he did was wrong (though he should at least offer to take AddSome out to dinner); and I have no problem with people seeking information from him. I'm just thrown off by the repeated assertions that it's wrong to judge.
But I'll leave it there.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 12:15:22 AM by Emily » Logged
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« Reply #521 on: January 10, 2016, 12:11:09 AM »

I've never heard the Dennis and Karen Lamm story. Do i even want to know the story behind it?
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« Reply #522 on: January 10, 2016, 01:01:00 AM »

Emily - I think anyone with an ounce of common sense is listening to you and would agree that these things that happened some 40 years ago were f***ed-up.

If you want Rocky to publicly say "I was morally wrong to do what I did, I wish I hadn't, what can I do to make it up to Brian, Carl, and Add Some?" I don't think that's gonna (going to) happen based on Rocky's current replies.

This thread, the Man vs Clown debacle and a tome or 2 seem to indicate that Rocky & Steve feel justified re how they handled things.

It was a toxic environment back then, was anyone behaving well?

Steve Love punched out Blondie Chaplin a few years earlier for dissing him. Dennis on the tour in New Zealand beat up his wife Karen Lamm, breaking her sternum in three places according to reports; Carl slipped Dennis $100 to get pinned.  Brian was on this tour because the promoter and the band/famiy wanted the bread ala goose that laid the golden egg - the Brian needs to be out there being creating thing is a crock (imo for that bit).  Murry sold the catalogue.

These actions may not be within the bounds of your moral code (nor mine, btw), but let’s not miss the chance to get this stuff documented as is - and learn from the mistakes.

I was thinking along the same lines. 40 years ago things were a lot different. Not right, just different. Ali was King, John Wayne took no sh!t to name a few. Imagine the Beach Boys on the road in NZ and Australia. They and their staff all in their 30s. We're there any wives or females in the travelling party? The testosterone must have been super changed. Throw in at least a couple of ex pro athletes, alcohol, drugs and a lot of down time, marriage breakdowns and inter band bad blood. The list probably could keep going.
Imagine this super charged atmosphere. A group of alpha males and one of them says F*** Y**.

Then, and probably now, it would be very hard to turn the other cheek.

Edit
Ok on a re read.Karen may have been on the tour, or part of it. I would also add that we know Carl was on the worse behaviour of his career. As hard as it is to say it, he was probably an asshole, as that drunken performance in Australia suggests.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 01:34:18 AM by Pretty Funky » Logged
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« Reply #523 on: January 10, 2016, 05:00:09 AM »

Emily. If I don't know 'all the facts' I personally would say I am wrong to judge. I don't know much about Rocky's time with the group so I won't use the Beach Boys or that tour or what happened during it to make my point.

Person A hits person B, for what reason, who threw the first punch, were there witnesses, alcohol, drugs, a previous incident, self defence or what ever. Unless I know for sure, I am wrong to judge.
I agree that there are cases where one doesn't have enough facts to judge, but in this case the guy who threw the first punch has told us his motives. Is it then wrong to judge? How much information do you need to make a judgment? He's admitted he did it and told us why.

I'm no relativist by any means. It's just that trying to show Rocky his wrongdoings, or trying to make one's own statement, while futile, can also lead to an informed, "been-there" poster to leave. It's happened in the past a number of times. I'd rather keep him.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 06:15:03 AM by Autotune » Logged

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« Reply #524 on: January 10, 2016, 05:29:15 AM »

Emily. If I don't know 'all the facts' I personally would say I am wrong to judge. I don't know much about Rocky's time with the group so I won't use the Beach Boys or that tour or what happened during it to make my point.

Person A hits person B, for what reason, who threw the first punch, were there witnesses, alcohol, drugs, a previous incident, self defence or what ever. Unless I know for sure, I am wrong to judge.
I agree that there are cases where one doesn't have enough facts to judge, but in this case the guy who threw the first punch has told us his motives. Is it then wrong to judge? How much information do you need to make a judgment? He's admitted he did it and told us why.

I'm no relativist by any means. It's just that trying to show Rocky his wrongdoings, or trying yo make one's own statement, while futile, can easily lead to an informed, "been-there" poster to leave. It's happened in the past a number of times. I'd rather keep him.

I hear you with that one.  I also agree with Adam and Alan and what they posted.  I wouldn't worry too much about Rocky.  He's thick skinned enough I think and is probably here to promote his book and will leave when he chooses or stick around on his terms.  I hope he does stay as I enjoy reading his posts and it's been an eye opener.  It has forced us to look at this period with a new perspective.

We all love Carl but the idea of him being a spoilt brat (and all of them possible being the same) is not hard to understand.  It might or might not be the case but these guys have been waited on hand and foot since their teens (early in Carl's case).  I'm sure with drugs and alcohol thrown in they weren't always on top form.  He incident with Carl had a positive outcome a he cleaned up pretty quickly.

Rocky and Stan dealt with things in a way they felt was right and in the context of the times would be more understood by those in the Beach Boys camp.  Personally, I believe none of us should judge anyone and just pray we are never put in the position of others who's action we may find questionable.
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