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Author Topic: Rocky Pamplin book about The Beach Boys?  (Read 489749 times)
Pretty Funky
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« Reply #300 on: December 19, 2015, 04:24:30 PM »

Reminds me of claims made about the similarly suspicious announcement of the release of Mike's book.  Wasn't it timed not too long after the break up of C50 and the announcement of Love & Mercy?  In fact, isn't it's release coming soon?

EoL

End of C50 tour - September 28th, 2012.

Love & Mercy announced - June 23rd, 2013.

Mike's book announced - 20th November 2014.

Yup, not too long after at all...

Mike's book is due for a summer 2016 publication.

2011

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/movies/2011/06/brian-wilson-movie-pet-sounds-moverman-wells-pohlad-beach-boys-smile.html
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« Reply #301 on: December 19, 2015, 04:27:37 PM »

I feel like Carl avoided the draft to keep the BBs touring machine going more than anything else. It's not like the BBs could have taken a break from constant touring instead and "recharged" their recording energies.

I disagree there...my understanding was, like many Americans during that time period, his beliefs were genuine and deep-rooted.  I've never heard a word otherwise as far as Carl was concerned.
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« Reply #302 on: December 19, 2015, 04:28:27 PM »

I think the case can be made that the bbs were thinking commercially when they forced Brian into the studio to make 15 big ones with the help of Landy. But I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that while Landy was hired to get Brian well enough to record again, the band also thought that getting back to work would be good for Brian. I do think however that the bands decision to make Brian tour with them again in the 1976 to 1982 period was a cynical move.  Often they signed contracts specifying that he'd be with them as on the 1978 Australian tour and 1980 European tour, even though it was clear that the touring at that time wasn't doing him much good and by 1978 he usually looked miserable behind the keyboard. I don't think they were looking after his interests there.  
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« Reply #303 on: December 19, 2015, 04:31:05 PM »

That being said maybe the band felt that if he was with them on the road at least they could keep an eye on him.
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Pretty Funky
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« Reply #304 on: December 19, 2015, 04:40:52 PM »

I feel like Carl avoided the draft to keep the BBs touring machine going more than anything else. It's not like the BBs could have taken a break from constant touring instead and "recharged" their recording energies.

I disagree there...my understanding was, like many Americans during that time period, his beliefs were genuine and deep-rooted.  I've never heard a word otherwise as far as Carl was concerned.

Interesting timeline and detail here...

http://reasonabledoubt.org/criminallawblog/entry/january-3-1967-beach-boy-carl-wilson-becomes-draft-dodger-today-in-crime-history

Any detail on what Carl did to object between his notice and his filing  for “conscientious objector” status with his local selective service draft board about Jan 20, 17 days after he should have reported?
« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 04:46:51 PM by Pretty Funky » Logged
Emily
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« Reply #305 on: December 19, 2015, 04:42:05 PM »

Ian, both of your posts make sense - underscoring how an act can be interpreted many ways. Between you and Andrew Hickey, I'm beating a retreat and acknowledging that generosity is better than judging. Though I don't think any amount of being better than me will make me retreat on Pamplin.
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« Reply #306 on: December 19, 2015, 04:47:27 PM »

I feel like Carl avoided the draft to keep the BBs touring machine going more than anything else. It's not like the BBs could have taken a break from constant touring instead and "recharged" their recording energies.

I disagree there...my understanding was, like many Americans during that time period, his beliefs were genuine and deep-rooted.  I've never heard a word otherwise as far as Carl was concerned.

Interesting timeline and detail here...

http://reasonabledoubt.org/criminallawblog/entry/january-3-1967-beach-boy-carl-wilson-becomes-draft-dodger-today-in-crime-history

Any detail on what Carl did to object between his notice and his filing  for “conscientious objector” status with his local selective service draft board about Jan 20, 17 days after he should have reported?

Hmmm...
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« Reply #307 on: December 19, 2015, 05:20:33 PM »

 Apparently Carl refused to perform his community service as an orderly at a Los Angeles veterans hospital, due to the lack of quality Cold Cuts in the cafeteria.
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« Reply #308 on: December 19, 2015, 05:34:51 PM »

What would the perks be?

I'd kick in $25 to get a genuine sock in the jaw by the Rockster himself.

What a great photo op at the book signings. You know how like if you get a picture with a famous boxer Cheesy
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« Reply #309 on: December 19, 2015, 07:07:19 PM »

Apparently Carl refused to perform his community service as an orderly at a Los Angeles veterans hospital, due to the lack of quality Cold Cuts in the cafeteria.



That does pose a good question. Why didn't he report to fulfill his assigned job as orderly at the VA hospital?  I knew a guy with a law degree who was ordered to do the same and he complied .

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« Reply #310 on: December 19, 2015, 07:45:44 PM »

edit..

Not sure now if this post is related to Carl so I have deleted it.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 07:51:31 PM by Pretty Funky » Logged
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« Reply #311 on: December 19, 2015, 08:38:02 PM »


Well, at least now we know which faction turns every thread into a Brian v Mike thread, and it isn't the faction that contains Smile Brian and OSD.  Just when those two began to behave SJS comes out of the shadows and, as per usual, is shortly thereafter supported by Mike's Beard and Cam Mott.


Excuse me, what are you talking about?
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« Reply #312 on: December 19, 2015, 09:25:53 PM »


Nobody in the band or the public gave a crap about Carl's CO status. It was the question of BW making money for the family and the release of Smile to the public that mattered.


You obviously weren't around back then.
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« Reply #313 on: December 19, 2015, 10:29:42 PM »

To Emily and the other sensible posters in this thread ...

I think the initial decision to go with Landy was made because he was totally unorthodox and had a good track record. Marilyn, Carl, and the family probably figured (correctly in my opinion) that Brian's situation was unusual, and being that he's a sensitive guy, this program made sense because Landy approached Brian in a way that couldn't be done in a conventional treatment scenario. I think it's generally accepted (maybe I'm wrong?) that the first Landy treatment was relatively successful. And probably the second one too, for the first couple years.

The idea that the initial treatment program was commercially motivated seems too black and white to me. I think that to most people around him, the idea of a "healthy" Brian Wilson included making music again. And I think BW was on board. There's an interview around the time where he talks about wanting to "experience people. And make money of course." The commercial aspect was obviously opportunistic, but I don't think it was malicious.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 10:32:27 PM by DonnyL » Logged

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« Reply #314 on: December 19, 2015, 11:36:48 PM »

Pure speculation here, but maybe they were reluctant to hospitalize Brian after his 1968 hospitalization? Hence, Landy. Just a thought.
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« Reply #315 on: December 20, 2015, 12:58:09 AM »


Any detail on what Carl did to object between his notice and his filing  for “conscientious objector” status with his local selective service draft board about Jan 20, 17 days after he should have reported?

Can't claim to know what he did at home, but he was in the studio some:

  3 - Smile session: Heroes And Villains ['Do A Lot', 'Mission Pak', 'Bridge to
       Indians' and 'pickup to 3rd verse' vocals, 'Bag of Tricks' and 'Part 1 tag' - Columbia]
  5 - Smile  session: Heroes And Villains - part 2/'Bicycle Rider' vocals [Western]
  9 - Smile session: Wonderful ['version 2 (rock with me, Henry') incl. vocals - Western]
20 - Smile session: Heroes And Villains [vocals - Columbia] (x)
27 - Smile session: Heroes And Villains ['Children Were Raised' and 'Whistling Bridge'
        vocals, 'Cantina' section/'All Day' [Columbia]
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« Reply #316 on: December 20, 2015, 01:02:49 AM »

I feel like Carl avoided the draft to keep the BBs touring machine going more than anything else. It's not like the BBs could have taken a break from constant touring instead and "recharged" their recording energies.

It wasn't easy to get CO status when Carl was going through it in 1966-67. It was probably harmful to his career at that time. Unlike many of his contemporaries, he couldn't get a college deferment. Given his long-term spiritual beliefs, it seems likely it truly was a question of conscience. I was a little kid then, but from what my elders have told me and having known many Viet Nam vets, at that early time, going through the CO thing was a difficult process. It would have been probably easier (and especially among some people more socially acceptable) for him to go along and be drafted. It must have been scary for him knowing that he could have gone to prison. The band was surely a consideration, but it can't have been the only thing. Did Carl's **ahem** biography (that I didn't read) discuss this at all?

I haven't scrolled back, but I know I brought up Rocky's relationship with Marilyn in an earlier post.  I sure as hell hope people didn't think I was judging Marilyn about it as. Believe me, I have no room to judge anyone in that area. My point was that Rocky's comments in Gaines' book were douchey.  Like locker-room douchey. I hope that he's grown up a bit since then.

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Pretty Funky
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« Reply #317 on: December 20, 2015, 02:09:53 AM »


Any detail on what Carl did to object between his notice and his filing  for “conscientious objector” status with his local selective service draft board about Jan 20, 17 days after he should have reported?

Can't claim to know what he did at home, but he was in the studio some:

  3 - Smile session: Heroes And Villains ['Do A Lot', 'Mission Pak', 'Bridge to
       Indians' and 'pickup to 3rd verse' vocals, 'Bag of Tricks' and 'Part 1 tag' - Columbia]
  5 - Smile  session: Heroes And Villains - part 2/'Bicycle Rider' vocals [Western]
  9 - Smile session: Wonderful ['version 2 (rock with me, Henry') incl. vocals - Western]
20 - Smile session: Heroes And Villains [vocals - Columbia] (x)
27 - Smile session: Heroes And Villains ['Children Were Raised' and 'Whistling Bridge'
        vocals, 'Cantina' section/'All Day' [Columbia]

No what he did to object. Going from when he got his notice to Jan 20. Letters to his congressman, senators, lawyers etc or did he let it slide completely?
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« Reply #318 on: December 20, 2015, 08:26:32 AM »

Contained within the footnote 1, from the case United States of America, Appellee, v. Carl Dean Wilson, Appellant, US Court of Appeals, Ninth Circuit.  Jan. 8, 1971, Rehearing Denied, Feb. 8, 1971.

"...The Beach Boys are most concerned in touring the State Mental Hospitals and having the various  people in these institutions hear and have available Rock and Roll Groups donating their time.  As well as teaching these people the art of music writing, playing, formation of groups and  music producing."

This was in addition to, "There is a need for Rock and Roll Groups to tour various Army Installations, State Mental Hospitals and Vietnam.  The Beach Boys are willing to render their services in touring these installations and institutions.  The Armed Forces News has approached The Beach Boys on numerous occasions for their services and interest in touring various Army bases.  The Armed Forces News has indicated the need for Rock and roll groups to donate their services for the servicemen in Vietnam...The Beach Boys are willing to tour any and all Vietnam installations especially since our troops have requested and are desirous in seeing and hearing Rock and Roll groups.  We are aware of the expenses involved in these type tours and are willing to render our services without any cost to our State Department and the Department of the Army as expeditiously as possible."

"Since the Beach Boys have toured the World over the past five (5) years they have been approached by many servicemen asking and pleading for them to appear at their various Army Bases."

This is found at http://openjurist.org/436/f2d/972/united-states-v-wilson 

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« Reply #319 on: December 20, 2015, 08:32:31 AM »

So... Is Rocky out? Like Gaines and Daro?
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« Reply #320 on: December 20, 2015, 10:55:42 AM »


Any detail on what Carl did to object between his notice and his filing  for “conscientious objector” status with his local selective service draft board about Jan 20, 17 days after he should have reported?

Can't claim to know what he did at home, but he was in the studio some:

  3 - Smile session: Heroes And Villains ['Do A Lot', 'Mission Pak', 'Bridge to
       Indians' and 'pickup to 3rd verse' vocals, 'Bag of Tricks' and 'Part 1 tag' - Columbia]
  5 - Smile  session: Heroes And Villains - part 2/'Bicycle Rider' vocals [Western]
  9 - Smile session: Wonderful ['version 2 (rock with me, Henry') incl. vocals - Western]
20 - Smile session: Heroes And Villains [vocals - Columbia] (x)
27 - Smile session: Heroes And Villains ['Children Were Raised' and 'Whistling Bridge'
        vocals, 'Cantina' section/'All Day' [Columbia]

No what he did to object. Going from when he got his notice to Jan 20. Letters to his congressman, senators, lawyers etc or did he let it slide completely?
One didn't have to actively object. One had to establish that one has (and previously had) a philosophical or theological moral stance that one should not participate in any military activity.
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« Reply #321 on: December 20, 2015, 12:15:33 PM »

I discussed this in the in concert book. On page 94 I noted that a judge agreed to let him serve in an alternative manner.  Carl and the bbs thought that they could fulfill the requirement by playing free shows at prisons and hospitals which they did occasionally in 1968 and 1969. On page 126 I note that after a long hiatus the Los Angeles district attorney announced in August 1969 that Carl hadn't satisfied the requirements and would be indicted. Carl had reported to LA county hospital but objected to the jobs he was offered as alternative service such as cleaning bed pans at va hospitals and suggested he could do more good doing concerts, etc.  the draft board ignored his request and he was indicted and trial began on November 4 1969. On page 132 I note that on January 29 1970 he was given three years probation and fined 4,000. He was ordered to spend two years as an institutional helper at the county department of hospitals. Carl refused and spent another year convincing a judge to let him do other things such as a voting drive at concerts
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« Reply #322 on: December 20, 2015, 12:18:49 PM »

The case was settled in September 1971. After that Carl accompanied by a few musician friends did some shows at prisons and on the spring 1972 tour the bbs had voter registration booths set up at every venue
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Emily
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« Reply #323 on: December 20, 2015, 12:21:18 PM »

To Emily and the other sensible posters in this thread ...

I think the initial decision to go with Landy was made because he was totally unorthodox and had a good track record. Marilyn, Carl, and the family probably figured (correctly in my opinion) that Brian's situation was unusual, and being that he's a sensitive guy, this program made sense because Landy approached Brian in a way that couldn't be done in a conventional treatment scenario. I think it's generally accepted (maybe I'm wrong?) that the first Landy treatment was relatively successful. And probably the second one too, for the first couple years.

The idea that the initial treatment program was commercially motivated seems too black and white to me. I think that to most people around him, the idea of a "healthy" Brian Wilson included making music again. And I think BW was on board. There's an interview around the time where he talks about wanting to "experience people. And make money of course." The commercial aspect was obviously opportunistic, but I don't think it was malicious.
Whether it was successful is subjective. I think that to call it successful one must focus on criteria that have to do with Brian's practical ability to function over his emotional well-being. If you read the contemporary RS or New West articles (the latter of which I haven't read for a long time, does anyone have it? I'll go look on the scans thread) it's pretty evident that he was not well and was being treated in completely humiliating ways that must have been bad for his psyche, and that the focus was entirely on his actions and not at all on his root problems. Contemporary articles from the second period indicate that as well.

The fact that he was marched out and forced to participate in the interviews, most obviously against his will, is evidence enough that his health wasn't a priority. One can easily argue that making music would be beneficial and healing and give him joy and a will to engage, but interviews and touring were never things that he indicated were fulfilling.

It's also evident from those articles that Landy was a charlatan whose main concern was his own image.
 
So, 1. for a job of this magnitude and importance one should still check someone's professional reputation. Psychology attracts a pretty loose bunch and one could find an unconventional and flexible psychologist that had earned some respect and credentials beyond working with Alice Cooper. I'd also think that his evident prioritizing of schmoozing with stars over serious work would tip people off.
2. Once he swindled his way in and things got rolling, alarm bells should've gone off and the plug should've been pulled.

But, I wouldn't characterize it as malicious. Or even conscious. My guess is that the first Landy hiring came down to a lack of sophistication and self-deception.
Regarding the former, I'm repeatedly surprised at how unsophisticated the people around the Beach Boys still were. I think, reading about Murry and reading his letter and interviews, that he was jealous of professionals and passed that on to his sons as suspicion. They seem to have avoided hiring professionals, other than music-makers (instrumentalists, engineers, etc.), for anything.
Regarding the latter, I think humans are greatly skilled at convincing themselves that what is good for them is good.

eta: haven't found the New West article but a Oui article from the same period is here:  http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,10376.50.html
and it shows pretty well what Brian Wilson wanted vs. what he got.

e again ta: I've seen in multiple contemporary interviews that Landy threatened to "put [Brian] on the funny farm" (from Oui interview linked above, but I've seen it in other interviews as well). The wrongness of that, both in terms of "treating" BW through crazy coercive threats, and in terms of scaring him away from possibly beneficial treatments is, well, just is.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2015, 02:41:52 PM by Emily » Logged
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« Reply #324 on: December 20, 2015, 02:23:06 PM »

Landy also worked with Gig Young an actor from the 40s and 50s. He later killed his wife and committed suicide. Not too successful with that client .
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