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Author Topic: Rocky Pamplin book about The Beach Boys?  (Read 489966 times)
AdultContemporaryChild
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« Reply #200 on: December 18, 2015, 04:14:04 AM »

Does Pamplin now wear Pampers?  What does he think of No Pier Pressure, the album of the century?
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Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll
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« Reply #201 on: December 18, 2015, 04:21:40 AM »

So Carl liked cold cuts?
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Cam Mott
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« Reply #202 on: December 18, 2015, 04:22:30 AM »

Pamplin is not *more* deserving of courtesy than anyone else. He certainly deserves not to have his typing or spelling skills mocked. But his justifications for assaulting Dennis (and *especially* his justifications for assaulting Carl) don't deserve any respect at all. He is describing, and glorying in, thuggish, abusive, behaviour.

And he is no less deserving of courtesy. Their story is their story and they should be allowed to settle in and tell it. You know, if it is Rocky in this case. We will still have our own minds about respect after we hear their side.

Can't we develop a polite conversation over a side we haven't heard? What was their thinking at the time, what was the back story for them, do they have regrets, are they sure their memory is accurate, etc..  Cooperative instead of confrontational, both ways. We were getting there with Daro but we had gone too far and we couldn't get it back apparently and probably missed out on a lot of less controversial, but interesting, perspective from him.

PS. I'm not taking issue with anything you've said in this regard, old friend.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 05:26:15 AM by Cam Mott » Logged

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« Reply #203 on: December 18, 2015, 04:38:44 AM »

Pamplin is not *more* deserving of courtesy than anyone else. He certainly deserves not to have his typing or spelling skills mocked. But his justifications for assaulting Dennis (and *especially* his justifications for assaulting Carl) don't deserve any respect at all. He is describing, and glorying in, thuggish, abusive, behaviour.

And he is no less deserving of courtesy. Their story is their story and they should be allowed to settle in and tell it. You know, if it is Rocky in this case. We will still have our own minds about respect after we hear their side.

Can't we develop a polite conversation over a side we haven't heard? What was their thinking at the time, what was the back story for them, do they have regrets, are they sure their memory is accurate, etc..  Cooperative instead of confrontational, both ways. We were getting there with Daro but we had gone too far and we couldn't get it back apparently and probably missed out on a lot of less controversial, but interesting, perspective from him.

Hear, hear!
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bb4ever
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« Reply #204 on: December 18, 2015, 05:30:07 AM »

I DON'T KNOW NOTHING ABOUT NO HEROINE!!
I DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHIG TO DO WITH NO HEROINE

In every interview I've seen of Carl Wilson he seemed not only intelligent, but extremely articulate and well spoken.  He could still sing the heck out of any song--even when under the influence during those dark days.  Finding it a bit hard to believe he lost all command of his speaking skills and made comments like this?
« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 05:33:58 AM by bb4ever » Logged
filledeplage
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« Reply #205 on: December 18, 2015, 05:48:37 AM »

I find it interesting that Mr.Pamplin, in addition to having a problem with his temper, also has a spelling problem. In order to make his case he has to make most of the Beach Boys look bad (Carl not only said f*** you to the virile Rocky but he also has the bad  habit of spitting cold cuts when excited, Al is appalled one minute but not the next etc.).It seems to me you could've kept Brian away from heroin by never leaving him alone and also having someone keeping a close eye on Dennis. Maybe it's just 20/20 hindsight.
Gerry - The spelling is not subject to a spelling test.  We are here for ideas and information and not for a grammar exam.  We don't all have the same academic background, so shouldn't be subject to grammar and spelling standards.  We just love the music.  

That said, what I am trying to extract from what this person is posting is that there was serious impairment going on, and not realizing that is was the "horse"(heroin or other drugs) talking not more than when someone is drunk the "booze" is talking for that person.  It is like trying to reason with a two-year-old having a temper tantrum.  You cannot try to reason with that temper tantrum.  You wait until it has passed and things have calmed down. And keep the person safe instead of lashing out.  You have to be the adult in the room.  

That is what is missing here.  The complete lack of assessment of their "state of mind" when these "events" took place.  It was not smart to not "wait it out" for the drug haze to clear, until the "user" had some ability to be clear, rational and adult-behaved.  This is false sense of personal affront.  And an over-reaction.  

That behavior seems inconsistent with Carl's personality.  I did not know him personally but saw him enough, over 30 years to observe that it did not appear to be his way of communicating. People tend to act consistently except if they are "impaired."  Then, they act/behave completely out of character.

If he was high, then it should have been assumed that it was the "drugs talking" and not the real Carl.  Even back then, people in AA would talk about the "booze talking" and had a reasonable analogy to the degree of his impairment, that should have been inferred.  The AA people were on the right track.  And were ahead of the medical world, not with treatment but with true understanding that behavior was influenced by substances, and it wasn't the "person talking" but the "substance that was mouthing-off."

Carl should have been left alone to have those salty cold cuts  and be thirsty enough to drink something (especially if he wasn't paying attention to hydration, where being dehydrated could cause kidney and cardiac problems.) Addicts, while actively using, are not paying attention to their health.  He was getting some protein at least, to keep his heart going. Hindsight is 20/20.  And were are in 2015.  We need to use an "era" or "70's decade" appropriate lens.  

That false braggadocio in mouthing-off was more likely than not the drugs talking, and not a personal insult, responded to, inappropriately.   Wink
 
« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 06:18:25 AM by filledeplage » Logged
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« Reply #206 on: December 18, 2015, 06:45:44 AM »

OK...I get where you guys are coming from because I wanted the Daro thread to move along in hopes of seeing some revealing info come to light.  It's just...as A.H. said...the guy is here rubbing our noses in his ongoing bragging about how he and Stan and Steve dealt with those Wilsons.  Ya he/they loved Brian.  Loved him so much that one of them [Rocket] had an affair with Brian's wife.  Now THAT'S real love.

This is the kind of guy...you know...with the severely scraped knuckles...who only understands one language.  I hope he comes my way on a book signing tour.  I'll be there to SAY HELLO.
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« Reply #207 on: December 18, 2015, 08:00:03 AM »

This "heroine"... who is she ?
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« Reply #208 on: December 18, 2015, 08:07:15 AM »

Challenge the guy by all means, but let's not run him off. Anything at this point has to be more interesting then the millionth Mike Love bitchfest.

Does Pamplin now wear Pampers?  What does he think of No Pier Pressure, the album of the century?

Wow, it must have been a slow century.
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« Reply #209 on: December 18, 2015, 09:13:58 AM »

I understand why people are being rude to Rocky.

Beyond the glorious music, part of what makes the Beach Boys story so interesting is that is reflects a kind of divide in American culture, at least in the 60s and 70s.  On the one hand there is the football/cheerleaders, clean living, mindless fun side of things that Mike Love came to symbolize.  On the other there is the free/creative/introspective/spiritual side, which, for a time, was associated with drugs, consciousness expanding at first, later, less so.  The Wilson brothers are here, and most of this board, though recognizing that no one can ground the stack of vocals like Mike, are most interested the Beach Boys on account of this side of things.
Rocky is very much on the first side of things.    And he beat up people we love, and betrayed their trust.
On the other hand, much of the Beach Boys family did trust him, maybe love him, and he was right there in the middle of things, during a very interesting period.  And beyond Desper, who else on this board has worked with Brian, musically?
So welcome, Rocky, and let’s hear what you have to say.
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« Reply #210 on: December 18, 2015, 09:26:51 AM »

So Carl liked cold cuts?

I honestly don't know if the fact that we got such a descriptive sense of Carl's consumption of cold cuts is a good or bad thing.

It was such an awful time for the band, so I know it's hard to find any humor in it. But I'd hope somewhere, somehow, sometime, Carl and/or the guys could find some kind of humor in the Spinal Tap-esque scene of Carl, the most level-headed guy in the band, yelling at someone while specs of roast beef sandwich are flying everywhere out of his mouth. 

Someone awhile back dug up that 1989 interview with Carl from Europe and had it translated to English, and the interviewer actually asked Carl about that 1978 Australian tour, and Carl seemed to *still* be kind of defensive about it. I sense it was a painful time/memory for Carl as well, regardless of the accuracy of all the various anecdotes and stories.

It is kind of ironic that we get such a potentially vivid description of the *one relatively short era* where Carl went off the rails. He appears to have gotten his s**t together by 1979 and never once after 1978 did he ever do that "Elmer Fudd on valium" slurring on stage or anything like that. Proof, if nothing else, that someone can go off the rails but actually come back from it and return to form as one of the main reasons to even stay invested in the band.

A mere three years later, it was Carl *leaving* the band in 1981 that nearly spelled the end of the touring band, who could barely hold things together without him (e.g. the Queen Mary gig, etc.).
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« Reply #211 on: December 18, 2015, 10:02:07 AM »

As I mentioned further up the board, in NO WAY condoning violence, maybe the incident with Rocky was enough to shock Carl back into reality and get it together.  Carl seemed like the type to listen to a wake up call.  On the other hand I sense that the harder someone hit Dennis the more he would come back for more (physically and emotionally).
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« Reply #212 on: December 18, 2015, 10:10:54 AM »

Or maybe Carl saw footage of what a mess he was onstage ?
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« Reply #213 on: December 18, 2015, 10:28:47 AM »

It seems to me pretty evident that Carl Wilson did not have the same level of psychological disturbance as Brian and Dennis Wilson. He was probably less needful of self-medication. Drugs for him probably fulfilled a different, more dispensable function. He also clearly did not develop a strong addiction.
If I were living in hotels and busses and planes with these folks, I'd be taking a lot of drugs too. Then when they were out of the picture, I'd probably stop.
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« Reply #214 on: December 18, 2015, 10:40:47 AM »

It seems to me pretty evident that Carl Wilson did not have the same level of psychological disturbance as Brian and Dennis Wilson. He was probably less needful of self-medication. Drugs for him probably fulfilled a different, more dispensable function. He also clearly did not develop a strong addiction.

I think those who knew Carl in his later years might dispute that.
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Emily
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« Reply #215 on: December 18, 2015, 10:41:28 AM »

It seems to me pretty evident that Carl Wilson did not have the same level of psychological disturbance as Brian and Dennis Wilson. He was probably less needful of self-medication. Drugs for him probably fulfilled a different, more dispensable function. He also clearly did not develop a strong addiction.

I think those who knew Carl in his later years might dispute that.
Well that's sad to learn.
Which part would they dispute? I'd heard, and people in posts above seem to indicate that he didn't continue heavy usage after that period in the 70's. Is that untrue?
« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 10:44:21 AM by Emily » Logged
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« Reply #216 on: December 18, 2015, 10:58:05 AM »

Carl's heroin habit was as intense as it was brief.
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« Reply #217 on: December 18, 2015, 11:14:43 AM »

Carl's heroin habit was as intense as it was brief.
But it did not persist into his later years, correct? Do you know to what Wirestone was referring?
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« Reply #218 on: December 18, 2015, 11:16:11 AM »

It seems to me pretty evident that Carl Wilson did not have the same level of psychological disturbance as Brian and Dennis Wilson. He was probably less needful of self-medication. Drugs for him probably fulfilled a different, more dispensable function. He also clearly did not develop a strong addiction.

I think those who knew Carl in his later years might dispute that.
Well that's sad to learn.
Which part would they dispute? I'd heard, and people in posts above seem to indicate that he didn't continue heavy usage after that period in the 70's. Is that untrue?

To quote one of Carl's own 90s lyrics, "I quit smoking but I drink too much".
I never knew Carl, and so would not like to state it as a *fact*, but I have heard several times that Carl was a very heavy drinker, and while I've not heard the words used of him, the descriptions make him sound like a functioning alcoholic. The "functioning" being an important part there, though -- I've not heard any stories of the alcohol causing him to behave badly, to be unprofessional, or to do anything at all wrong.
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« Reply #219 on: December 18, 2015, 11:17:18 AM »

It seems to me pretty evident that Carl Wilson did not have the same level of psychological disturbance as Brian and Dennis Wilson. He was probably less needful of self-medication. Drugs for him probably fulfilled a different, more dispensable function. He also clearly did not develop a strong addiction.

I think those who knew Carl in his later years might dispute that.
Well that's sad to learn.
Which part would they dispute? I'd heard, and people in posts above seem to indicate that he didn't continue heavy usage after that period in the 70's. Is that untrue?

To quote one of Carl's own 90s lyrics, "I quit smoking but I drink too much".
I never knew Carl, and so would not like to state it as a *fact*, but I have heard several times that Carl was a very heavy drinker, and while I've not heard the words used of him, the descriptions make him sound like a functioning alcoholic. The "functioning" being an important part there, though -- I've not heard any stories of the alcohol causing him to behave badly, to be unprofessional, or to do anything at all wrong.
ah, shame. I'm sorry to hear it.
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« Reply #220 on: December 18, 2015, 11:32:37 AM »

It seems to me pretty evident that Carl Wilson did not have the same level of psychological disturbance as Brian and Dennis Wilson. He was probably less needful of self-medication. Drugs for him probably fulfilled a different, more dispensable function. He also clearly did not develop a strong addiction.
If I were living in hotels and busses and planes with these folks, I'd be taking a lot of drugs too. Then when they were out of the picture, I'd probably stop.


I'm sure a lot of musicians had that plan too.  Then it doesn't quite work out like that and they get hooked.  Carl also suffered a lot of back pain and drugs can sometimes help people to forget the pain.
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« Reply #221 on: December 18, 2015, 11:39:37 AM »

It seems to me pretty evident that Carl Wilson did not have the same level of psychological disturbance as Brian and Dennis Wilson. He was probably less needful of self-medication. Drugs for him probably fulfilled a different, more dispensable function. He also clearly did not develop a strong addiction.

I think those who knew Carl in his later years might dispute that.
Well that's sad to learn.
Which part would they dispute? I'd heard, and people in posts above seem to indicate that he didn't continue heavy usage after that period in the 70's. Is that untrue?

To quote one of Carl's own 90s lyrics, "I quit smoking but I drink too much".
I never knew Carl, and so would not like to state it as a *fact*, but I have heard several times that Carl was a very heavy drinker, and while I've not heard the words used of him, the descriptions make him sound like a functioning alcoholic. The "functioning" being an important part there, though -- I've not heard any stories of the alcohol causing him to behave badly, to be unprofessional, or to do anything at all wrong.
ah, shame. I'm sorry to hear it.

Indeed. Though it's very important to note that whatever Carl's addictions, and however serious they were, they didn't (as far as anyone has ever publicly said) mess up his ability to be a good husband, father, and band member, other than for that brief period in 1978. He certainly didn't have the same level of problem his brothers had.
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« Reply #222 on: December 18, 2015, 01:57:09 PM »

There's nothing in this thread that I haven't read in the Gaines book. No wonder why nothings been published.
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MikestheGreatest!!
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« Reply #223 on: December 18, 2015, 03:06:08 PM »

Wouldn't a Rocky book about the BB's be about as interesting as a Miss Jane book about Jethro Bodine?
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« Reply #224 on: December 18, 2015, 03:35:05 PM »

Have you had enough yet, Rocky?

Your first mistake, other than coming on this board, was...you roughed up the wrong Beach Boy! If you would've slugged Mike Love, you could've guaranteed at least a 75 page thread, been declared the conquering hero, and asked back anytime. Instead, you went after somebody supplying a mentally ill, drug addicted, vulnerable Brian Wilson with drugs, his brother no less. Leave Dennis alone. But, somebody who was, um, insensitive to Brian Wilson? Now dem's fightin' words!

Somebody mentioned you sleeping with Marilyn Wilson. You can't get away with that, Rocky. What songs did you write? Look, Brian Wilson can have an affair with his wife's sister - while he's still married - because he didn't really know what he was doing (wink, wink) and, hey, he had a God-given talent for writing beautiful music. And Dennis, The Golden Penetrator! He supposedly slept with ALL the Beach Boys' wives. Yep, Dennis was the man. But, hey, isn't "Cuddle Up" a beautiful song, and Pacific Ocean Blue, wow... That's right, Rocky, come back when YOU'VE written some beautiful music.

Finally, Rocky, thank you for your efforts in keeping drugs away from Brian Wilson. Your story about Brian Wilson offering drugs to his two young daughters was harrowing. I have this terrible picture of Carnie and Wendy dead, and Brian Wilson arrested for double manslaughter, spending the rest of his life institutionalized, and Marilyn's life, and many other lives shattered. But, we don't want to go there. It's too painful. I have a confession to make. If some thirty-four year-old man offered drugs to my young daughters, I think I'd either go after him physically - or have him arrested. I don't care what songs he wrote. But, let's focus on right crosses and left hooks instead. Remember, Rock, there's a lot of love in Pet Sounds, and that trumps everything.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 03:39:58 PM by Sheriff John Stone » Logged
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