Rocky Pamplin book about The Beach Boys?

[Lee Marshall]

And this is my favourite post.

+1.

Let us reflect, this thread started as "news" about copyright registering and by post 3 the judging had begun and the predictably churlish sledging and name calling by AddSome was upon us a mere 2 posts later.

Rocky's posts, love 'em or hate 'em and recent greeting the board as "Wankers" was a continuation the game started before he came here - and in a few cases was just calling a spade a spade.





[/quote]

Yup.  Guilty as charged.  I have NO RESPECT for a 'man' who would cold-c*ck Carl Wilson...a self medicated Carl...with a horribly bad back...totally off his 'game'...and almosr down for the count and then brag about it.  I have NO TIME for a 'guy' who would supposedly be working for the well-being of someone he "loved" and then have his 'way' with his 'pal's' wife while his 'buddy' was obviously incapacitated.  AND then call her on the phone when he was 'done with her' and toss all of the anti semitism he could muster in her direction.  Then there's the Denny thing which, as horrible as it is, is only 3rd worst on my list of complaints as I am, what?, forced to greet this character?

No.  You guys can fish for information from this 'individual'.  As far as I'm concerned he is nothing more than sh*t.

[Pretty Funky]

Rocky. Is this pretty accurate about the events at Dennis's house that night?

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1314&dat=19861021&id=nvFPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=hAgEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7010,3316550&hl=en

[catlag]

About the "cash cow" thing, there was this beautiful bit of insight from Brian himself earlier in his life (earlier than the period referred to in this thread), in fact from the Tom Nolan article in Rolling Stone (1971), and I don't know if it's alright to quote, but since it's there [http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/beach-boys-a-california-saga-19711028]

"You learn so much about people's motives, especially when you're in a position to bring out greed and such in people. But understanding the weaknesses of other people helps you to see your own weaknesses as well as strength..."

If I read Debbie KL right, maybe Brian was more lucid about many things than his behavior showed or projected. He seemed so out of control for a while (and maybe he was), but that does not mean that he did not know what was going on around him.

[mikeddonn]

About the "cash cow" thing, there was this beautiful bit of insight from Brian himself earlier in his life (earlier than the period referred to in this thread), in fact from the Tom Nolan article in Rolling Stone (1971), and I don't know if it's alright to quote, but since it's there [http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/beach-boys-a-california-saga-19711028]

"You learn so much about people's motives, especially when you're in a position to bring out greed and such in people. But understanding the weaknesses of other people helps you to see your own weaknesses as well as strength..."

If I read Debbie KL right, maybe Brian was more lucid about many things than his behavior showed or projected. He seemed so out of control for a while (and maybe he was), but that does not mean that he did not know what was going on around him.

I think Brian has always known. And as a result it has been the cause of a lot of pain. 

[Emily]

Hi Rocky -
To start, let me make clear that I don't mean anything in this post to be insulting. It's a legitimately well-meant suggestion:
It seems like a lot of the stories you're telling have already been recounted in the Stephen Gaines book and other places, and that some of the stories will be hurtful to Brian Wilson, among others, if published.
Have you considered rethinking your approach to your book? Brian Wilson and his brothers have earned a lot of empathy from his audience and they (we) may not react well to a book that we perceive is an embarrassment to him. However, a book that reflected thoughtfully on the situation they were in, on what it was like for Brian Wilson, a very sensitive guy, to be living in the world he lived in with some stories about the difficulties of being a known money-maker in the entertainment industry (and you could sensationalize this a bit without embarrassing Brian Wilson) might be welcome.
It could still be about your experiences, but because your experiences are so interesting, you could write a thoughtful book that would give us better insight into Brian Wilson and the people around him. The insight might be gained by you thinking back empathetically and instead of focusing on the drugs, think a bit more about the underlying needs and desires and struggle that those people were going through and why that was happening. You could retool even the violent anecdotes - instead of just giving the facts and trying to make it sound exciting, think a bit about how bizarre the situation you were all in was, and give the reader a feeling for the environment and how it got so out-of-hand, how people (including you it sounds like) can get sort of swept up and detached from reality and normal modes of living. This sort of self-reflection might also make you a more sympathetic character to the audience.
If you have memories of small things Brian Wilson said or did that might lend insight to what was going on in his mind at the time - Adamghost pointed out an insight that you made earlier in this thread about Brian Wilson thinking life was a "twisted joke." - that sort of insight would be really interesting.
I completely missed when you said that because it was buried in a long paragraph about how much he smoked and how much drugs he did. You buried the interesting bit in a lot of stuff we've (and the whole American audience) heard before. People can watch a police drama, WWF or the Kardashians any day; they can't hear insightful, real new anecdotes about the Beach Boys in the mid-late seventies. You could broaden the interest by giving a vivid recounting of the Los Angeles music scene in general at that time.
And movies with pathos as well as a grooving insider 70s vibe sell as well.
Just an idea...

[mtaber]

Asking a leopard to change his spots I fear..

[Emily]

Asking a leopard to change his spots I fear..

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

a try...

[Debbie KL]

Hi Rocky -
To start, let me make clear that I don't mean anything in this post to be insulting. It's a legitimately well-meant suggestion:
It seems like a lot of the stories you're telling have already been recounted in the Stephen Gaines book and other places, and that some of the stories will be hurtful to Brian Wilson, among others, if published.
Have you considered rethinking your approach to your book? Brian Wilson and his brothers have earned a lot of empathy from his audience and they (we) may not react well to a book that we perceive is an embarrassment to him. However, a book that reflected thoughtfully on the situation they were in, on what it was like for Brian Wilson, a very sensitive guy, to be living in the world he lived in with some stories about the difficulties of being a known money-maker in the entertainment industry (and you could sensationalize this a bit without embarrassing Brian Wilson) might be welcome.
It could still be about your experiences, but because your experiences are so interesting, you could write a thoughtful book that would give us better insight into Brian Wilson and the people around him. The insight might be gained by you thinking back empathetically and instead of focusing on the drugs, think a bit more about the underlying needs and desires and struggle that those people were going through and why that was happening. You could retool even the violent anecdotes - instead of just giving the facts and trying to make it sound exciting, think a bit about how bizarre the situation you were all in was, and give the reader a feeling for the environment and how it got so out-of-hand, how people (including you it sounds like) can get sort of swept up and detached from reality and normal modes of living. This sort of self-reflection might also make you a more sympathetic character to the audience.
If you have memories of small things Brian Wilson said or did that might lend insight to what was going on in his mind at the time - Adamghost pointed out an insight that you made earlier in this thread about Brian Wilson thinking life was a "twisted joke." - that sort of insight would be really interesting.
I completely missed when you said that because it was buried in a long paragraph about how much he smoked and how much drugs he did. You buried the interesting bit in a lot of stuff we've (and the whole American audience) heard before. People can watch a police drama, WWF or the Kardashians any day; they can't hear insightful, real new anecdotes about the Beach Boys in the mid-late seventies. You could broaden the interest by giving a vivid recounting of the Los Angeles music scene in general at that time.
And movies with pathos as well as a grooving insider 70s vibe sell as well.
Just an idea...

Thanks so much Emily, for saying some things I left out of my post that annoyed me enough with myself that I actually turned the computer back on to correct what I said earlier.  I'm not looking for a nicey-nice, gloss-over in future books about Brian and the Beach Boys, as my previous post might have implied.  That would put all of us to sleep.

What I want is not to read all the rehashed superficial stories that totally miss the depths of some truly fascinating human beings and their experiences.  That requires a level of compassion and discernment on the part of the author, as Emily so well expressed - and appreciation for some genuinely unique people.  We all know those old stories about Brian and Dennis in particular.  If I have to hear them again, I want a new perspective, as Emily suggested - a few "aha's" about the people instead of "here we go again, that same depressing story."   

[adamghost]

Really good stuff here!  Wow, Debbie, thanks for the insight.  And actually R. Pamplin's last post was pretty decent I must say.

You know, I think it is difficult for any of us -- certainly for people that have never been around the interior workings of the music industry both being in a successful band and also dealing with the pressures of record companies, rabid fans, friends, etc. -- to understand how easily it could be to be at the center of the whirlwind, to have your own demons but still see with great clarity the craziness around you and to be isolated by it.  It's one thing to have a lot of people love you - as Brian did - but it's quite another to have people understand you, the totality of what it is to be you, the things you have to deal with - from the voices in your head to being way ahead of everybody around you musically to being the only one who knows what it's like to be the lodestone of an army of peoples' livelihoods, each of whom love you in their own way but don't realize to what extent their own well-meant agendas are extracting something from you.  It's very easy to visualize a situation where Brian just realizes nobody's going to get it (though possibly Marilyn and a few others got in the ballpark), nobody possibly could, and you just have to muddle through on your own as best you can.  

Viewed through that prism, a lot of his decisions, even some of the destructive and crazy ones, begin to make sense.  His options in the late '60s and '70s would not have been good ones.  The guy had to ease his pain, and find whatever joy was available to him, given his situation.   It wasn't going to make sense to the outside world, how could it?  Some of it was probably addiction and some of it was mental illness, but a lot of it was probably perfectly logical if you were Brian Wilson and if we could stand in his shoes and see things from his perspective, we might do something similar.

I'm not condoning the darkest stuff, any more than Mr. Pamplin's cold c*ck or anything else, but again, context is key.

[Alan Smith]

Really good stuff here!  Wow, Debbie, thanks for the insight.  And actually R. Pamplin's last post was pretty decent I must say.

You know, I think it is difficult for any of us -- certainly for people that have never been around the interior workings of the music industry both being in a successful band and also dealing with the pressures of record companies, rabid fans, friends, etc. -- to understand how easily it could be to be at the center of the whirlwind, to have your own demons but still see with great clarity the craziness around you and to be isolated by it.  It's one thing to have a lot of people love you - as Brian did - but it's quite another to have people understand you, the totality of what it is to be you, the things you have to deal with - from the voices in your head to being way ahead of everybody around you musically to being the only one who knows what it's like to be the lodestone of an army of peoples' livelihoods, each of whom love you in their own way but don't realize to what extent their own well-meant agendas are extracting something from you.  It's very easy to visualize a situation where Brian just realizes nobody's going to get it (though possibly Marilyn and a few others got in the ballpark), nobody possibly could, and you just have to muddle through on your own as best you can.  

Viewed through that prism, a lot of his decisions, even some of the destructive and crazy ones, begin to make sense.  His options in the late '60s and '70s would not have been good ones.  The guy had to ease his pain, and find whatever joy was available to him, given his situation.   It wasn't going to make sense to the outside world, how could it?  Some of it was probably addiction and some of it was mental illness, but a lot of it was probably perfectly logical if you were Brian Wilson and if we could stand in his shoes and see things from his perspective, we might do something similar.

I'm not condoning the darkest stuff, any more than Mr. Pamplin's cold c*ck or anything else, but again, context is key.

+1 again, AdamGhost, in relation to Debbie and Rocky's latest posts. Context is key and we are fortunate to have two "players" from the time giving some insights into the machinations of the day.

Both Rocky and Debbie come as they are and it's great they get to tell their stories in their own time - Emily admitted to completely missing a key takeaway in a real anecdote, and it's important we take time to let things play out to better understand the stories behind what is the greatest music known to humankind.
 

[The Shift]

Emily, Debbie, Alan, Adam, and yes Rocky et al… you're bringing out the potential positives in this otherwise swamp of a thread. I fear making Rocky's manuscript into something enlightening along the lines suggested by Emily might be a big ask, but a maybe an accompanying commentary by someone else, with a sensitive, balanced insight such as Debbie's, could add so much, bring out something extraordinary in the project. I've an instinctive tendancy to simply side with Add Some's take on Rocky's posts but if something positive could result from his project, instead of a mere "biff n' tell", I'd be the first in line at the bookstore.

[MarcellaHasDirtyFeet]

Debbie, I'm not asking for any salacious details or commentary or even your opinion on the man, just wondering: Did you and Rocky often interact with each other back then, or were you traveling in different orbits around Brian?

[kirt]

Rocky. Is this pretty accurate about the events at Dennis's house that night?

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1314&dat=19861021&id=nvFPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=hAgEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7010,3316550&hl=en

Well,if that's accurate ,Stan and Rocky should have had some jail time. That was just a beating for sport.

[Debbie KL]

Really good stuff here!  Wow, Debbie, thanks for the insight.  And actually R. Pamplin's last post was pretty decent I must say.

You know, I think it is difficult for any of us -- certainly for people that have never been around the interior workings of the music industry both being in a successful band and also dealing with the pressures of record companies, rabid fans, friends, etc. -- to understand how easily it could be to be at the center of the whirlwind, to have your own demons but still see with great clarity the craziness around you and to be isolated by it.  It's one thing to have a lot of people love you - as Brian did - but it's quite another to have people understand you, the totality of what it is to be you, the things you have to deal with - from the voices in your head to being way ahead of everybody around you musically to being the only one who knows what it's like to be the lodestone of an army of peoples' livelihoods, each of whom love you in their own way but don't realize to what extent their own well-meant agendas are extracting something from you.  It's very easy to visualize a situation where Brian just realizes nobody's going to get it (though possibly Marilyn and a few others got in the ballpark), nobody possibly could, and you just have to muddle through on your own as best you can.  

Viewed through that prism, a lot of his decisions, even some of the destructive and crazy ones, begin to make sense.  His options in the late '60s and '70s would not have been good ones.  The guy had to ease his pain, and find whatever joy was available to him, given his situation.   It wasn't going to make sense to the outside world, how could it?  Some of it was probably addiction and some of it was mental illness, but a lot of it was probably perfectly logical if you were Brian Wilson and if we could stand in his shoes and see things from his perspective, we might do something similar.

I'm not condoning the darkest stuff, any more than Mr. Pamplin's cold c*ck or anything else, but again, context is key.

Well, you summed it up perfectly.  You and Emily have grasped and expressed the situation so much better than I could have.  Maybe I was too close, or maybe you're just more perceptive and better writers.  In any case, that's how I felt about Brian and what was happening to him at that time.

[c-man]

Rocky. Is this pretty accurate about the events at Dennis's house that night?

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1314&dat=19861021&id=nvFPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=hAgEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7010,3316550&hl=en

Well,if that's accurate ,Stan and Rocky should have had some jail time. That was just a beating for sport.

Do we know for sure what year that was? It's usually reported as 1981, but Rocky says 1980, and I've seen 1982 as well. Super Bowl Sunday was on January 20th in 1980 (the Pittsburgh Steelers beat the L.A. Rams) - Dennis was on an enforced sabbatical from the band, so he was absent from their gig in Lake Tahoe that day. But being estranged from the band didn't mean that he couldn't still hang with his brother whenever Brian was home. Dennis and Brian were definitely hanging out in early '81, recording "Stevie" that January, and it's been reported that the other Beach Boys cut off their access to the group's recording budget during those sessions out of fear that Dennis was feeding Brian drugs. That year, Super Bowl Sunday was January 25th (the Oakland Raiders beat the Philadelphia Eagles). Dennis was back with the band at that time, but they were between tours. In 1982, Super Bowl Sunday was January 24th (the S.F. 49'ers beat the Cincinnati Bengals), and this was again between Beach Boys tours. Dennis could have been home on Super Bowl Sunday each of those three years, but '81 seems the most likely, based on he and Brian spending a lot of time together, and the fear the rest of the band had about their shared drug use.

[Emily]

Really good stuff here!  Wow, Debbie, thanks for the insight.  And actually R. Pamplin's last post was pretty decent I must say.

You know, I think it is difficult for any of us -- certainly for people that have never been around the interior workings of the music industry both being in a successful band and also dealing with the pressures of record companies, rabid fans, friends, etc. -- to understand how easily it could be to be at the center of the whirlwind, to have your own demons but still see with great clarity the craziness around you and to be isolated by it.  It's one thing to have a lot of people love you - as Brian did - but it's quite another to have people understand you, the totality of what it is to be you, the things you have to deal with - from the voices in your head to being way ahead of everybody around you musically to being the only one who knows what it's like to be the lodestone of an army of peoples' livelihoods, each of whom love you in their own way but don't realize to what extent their own well-meant agendas are extracting something from you.  It's very easy to visualize a situation where Brian just realizes nobody's going to get it (though possibly Marilyn and a few others got in the ballpark), nobody possibly could, and you just have to muddle through on your own as best you can.  

Viewed through that prism, a lot of his decisions, even some of the destructive and crazy ones, begin to make sense.  His options in the late '60s and '70s would not have been good ones.  The guy had to ease his pain, and find whatever joy was available to him, given his situation.   It wasn't going to make sense to the outside world, how could it?  Some of it was probably addiction and some of it was mental illness, but a lot of it was probably perfectly logical if you were Brian Wilson and if we could stand in his shoes and see things from his perspective, we might do something similar.

I'm not condoning the darkest stuff, any more than Mr. Pamplin's cold c*ck or anything else, but again, context is key.

Well, you summed it up perfectly.  You and Emily have grasped and expressed the situation so much better than I could have.  Maybe I was too close, or maybe you're just more perceptive and better writers.  In any case, that's how I felt about Brian and what was happening to him at that time.

I have expressed almost nothing clearly. I am really thankful to you for helping elucidate Brian Wilson's perspective.

[CenturyDeprived]

Rocky. Is this pretty accurate about the events at Dennis's house that night?

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1314&dat=19861021&id=nvFPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=hAgEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7010,3316550&hl=en

Well,if that's accurate ,Stan and Rocky should have had some jail time. That was just a beating for sport.

Do we know for sure what year that was? It's usually reported as 1981, but Rocky says 1980, and I've seen 1982 as well. Super Bowl Sunday was on January 20th in 1980 (the Pittsburgh Steelers beat the L.A. Rams) - Dennis was on an enforced sabbatical from the band, so he was absent from their gig in Lake Tahoe that day. But being estranged from the band didn't mean that he couldn't still hang with his brother whenever Brian was home. Dennis and Brian were definitely hanging out in early '81, recording "Stevie" that January, and it's been reported that the other Beach Boys cut off their access to the group's recording budget during those sessions out of fear that Dennis was feeding Brian drugs. That year, Super Bowl Sunday was January 25th (the Oakland Raiders beat the Philadelphia Eagles). Dennis was back with the band at that time, but they were between tours. In 1982, Super Bowl Sunday was January 24th (the S.F. 49'ers beat the Cincinnati Bengals), and this was again between Beach Boys tours. Dennis could have been home on Super Bowl Sunday each of those three years, but '81 seems the most likely, based on he and Brian spending a lot of time together, and the fear the rest of the band had about their shared drug use.

So presumably, the "Stevie" sessions were not only the last formal "proper" time that Brian and Denny collaborated in the studio, but also possibly the last time they did drugs together?

[Emily]

Why is there a continuing slant that Dennis Wilson gave or fed drugs to Brian Wilson? Why aren't people talking about Brian feeding drugs to Dennis? It sounds like Brian paid for them. Why isn't Brian beaten up for buying drugs for Dennis or for sharing his drugs with Dennis?

I'm not suggesting AT ALL that Brian should have been beaten up, of course. Or that people should think of Brian as preying on Dennis. But I do think that the two angles are equally valid and that it's revealing that one is chosen over the other so consistently.

They were both doing drugs. They were both procuring drugs, sometimes jointly. Sometimes they did drugs together. The idea that one was the victim of the other seems to me to be totally based on a biased and willful interpretation.

As an aside, Dennis seems to me (opinion!) to have had an addiction while Brian's addiction I think is questionable.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Why is there a continuing slant that Dennis Wilson gave or fed drugs to Brian Wilson? Why aren't people talking about Brian feeding drugs to Dennis? It sounds like Brian paid for them. Why isn't Brian beaten up for buying drugs for Dennis or for sharing his drugs with Dennis?

I'm not suggesting AT ALL that Brian should have been beaten up, of course. Or that people should think of Brian as preying on Dennis. But I do think that the two angles are equally valid and that it's revealing that one is chosen over the other so consistently.

They were both doing drugs. They were both procuring drugs, sometimes jointly. Sometimes they did drugs together. The idea that one was the victim of the other seems to me to be totally based on a biased and willful interpretation.

As an aside, Dennis seems to me (opinion!) to have had an addiction while Brian's addiction I think is questionable.

Why is there "a continuing slant"? Why aren't people talking about "Brian feeding drugs to Dennis"? Why isn't "Brian beaten up"? Why is it that "one is chosen over the other so consistently"?

In my opinion, the answer, as it usually applies to this board, is that Brian is mentally ill. However, in this case, the answer is that Brian is MORE mentally ill.

An additional answer, again in my opinion, as it usually applies to this board, is that Brian has provided us with beautiful music. However, in this case, the answer is that Brian has provided us with MORE beautiful music.

[c-man]

I guess the belief at the time was that Brian wasn't getting illegal drugs unless Dennis was around to give them to him. We know Dennis managed to get dope on his own, and perhaps Brian's access to his own money was stopped to prevent him from buying dope (it definitely was during the first Landy era, so perhaps that continued to be the case, for the most part, into the early '80s). And evidently Carolyn Williams knew he was only getting the stuff from Dennis at that time.

[Emily]

I guess the belief at the time was that Brian wasn't getting illegal drugs unless Dennis was around to give them to him. We know Dennis managed to get dope on his own, and perhaps Brian's access to his own money was stopped to prevent him from buying dope (it definitely was during the first Landy era, so perhaps that continued to be the case, for the most part, into the early '80s). And evidently Carolyn Williams knew he was only getting the stuff from Dennis at that time.

It seems very Brian-centric, which in some contexts (discussing Brian's problems specifically) makes sense, and perhaps that's the context in this thread, though it wanders. A Dennis-centric perspective might be that he was always going around borrowing money for drugs so Brian was feeding Dennis's habit by giving him money. I think it really goes both ways. One had the mobility and (sometimes) the other had the money. The instances brought up in this thread specify that Brian paid.

[Empire Of Love]

Why is there a continuing slant that Dennis Wilson gave or fed drugs to Brian Wilson? Why aren't people talking about Brian feeding drugs to Dennis? It sounds like Brian paid for them. Why isn't Brian beaten up for buying drugs for Dennis or for sharing his drugs with Dennis?

I'm not suggesting AT ALL that Brian should have been beaten up, of course. Or that people should think of Brian as preying on Dennis. But I do think that the two angles are equally valid and that it's revealing that one is chosen over the other so consistently.

They were both doing drugs. They were both procuring drugs, sometimes jointly. Sometimes they did drugs together. The idea that one was the victim of the other seems to me to be totally based on a biased and willful interpretation.

As an aside, Dennis seems to me (opinion!) to have had an addiction while Brian's addiction I think is questionable.

Why is there "a continuing slant"? Why aren't people talking about "Brian feeding drugs to Dennis"? Why isn't "Brian beaten up"? Why is it that "one is chosen over the other so consistently"?

In my opinion, the answer, as it usually applies to this board, is that Brian is mentally ill. However, in this case, the answer is that Brian is MORE mentally ill.

An additional answer, again in my opinion, as it usually applies to this board, is that Brian has provided us with beautiful music. However, in this case, the answer is that Brian has provided us with MORE beautiful music.

If you would start bragging about some of your co-writing credits it would be almost as good as having Mike Love on the board.

EoL

[Chownow]

Why is there a continuing slant that Dennis Wilson gave or fed drugs to Brian Wilson? Why aren't people talking about Brian feeding drugs to Dennis? It sounds like Brian paid for them. Why isn't Brian beaten up for buying drugs for Dennis or for sharing his drugs with Dennis?

I'm not suggesting AT ALL that Brian should have been beaten up, of course. Or that people should think of Brian as preying on Dennis. But I do think that the two angles are equally valid and that it's revealing that one is chosen over the other so consistently.

They were both doing drugs. They were both procuring drugs, sometimes jointly. Sometimes they did drugs together. The idea that one was the victim of the other seems to me to be totally based on a biased and willful interpretation.

As an aside, Dennis seems to me (opinion!) to have had an addiction while Brian's addiction I think is questionable.

I suspect it has to do with their personalities, histories and, in my cynical view, their relative ability to produce"product", as somebody stated earlier.

My impression is that Dennis was viewed as a bit of a screw up throughout much of his life. Confrontational with authority and maybe out of control. Whereas Brian (again, just my impression) seemed to be responsible, hard working and in charge of "making product" up til the late 60s (?).  So maybe given how people around them viewed them, led them to think that of course it was Dennis leading Brian astray.

Also, as noted by a poster so aptly upthread:  Brian was viewed as the main money maker, and that is what the people around them were trying to protect. Helping the two guys really get healthy and lead happy lives was not the primary goal. It seems getting one of them to make money for the whole enterprise was.
 

[mikeddonn]

Why is there a continuing slant that Dennis Wilson gave or fed drugs to Brian Wilson? Why aren't people talking about Brian feeding drugs to Dennis? It sounds like Brian paid for them. Why isn't Brian beaten up for buying drugs for Dennis or for sharing his drugs with Dennis?

I'm not suggesting AT ALL that Brian should have been beaten up, of course. Or that people should think of Brian as preying on Dennis. But I do think that the two angles are equally valid and that it's revealing that one is chosen over the other so consistently.

They were both doing drugs. They were both procuring drugs, sometimes jointly. Sometimes they did drugs together. The idea that one was the victim of the other seems to me to be totally based on a biased and willful interpretation.

As an aside, Dennis seems to me (opinion!) to have had an addiction while Brian's addiction I think is questionable.

I suspect it has to do with their personalities, histories and, in my cynical view, their relative ability to produce"product", as somebody stated earlier.

My impression is that Dennis was viewed as a bit of a screw up throughout much of his life. Confrontational with authority and maybe out of control. Whereas Brian (again, just my impression) seemed to be responsible, hard working and in charge of "making product" up til the late 60s (?).  So maybe given how people around them viewed them, led them to think that of course it was Dennis leading Brian astray.

Also, as noted by a poster so aptly upthread:  Brian was viewed as the main money maker, and that is what the people around them were trying to protect. Helping the two guys really get healthy and lead happy lives was not the primary goal. It seems getting one of them to make money for the whole enterprise was.
 

I don't think there is a big mystery around it.  Brian was less challenging and Dennis didn't want the help.  No doubt they wanted Brian healthy to write great songs and make everyone money but Brian was more co-operative on the face of it.  It's been said many times that they tried to help Dennis.  He was having none of it.

[rockrush3]

   Good morning Smile, hope you all had an enjoyable weekend! I don't read Smile or use the Internet on weekends...ever. So I always have some catching up to do on Mondays. On Friday someone suggested to me that it would better serve me to revisit the Carl incident in Australia rather than talking about Dennis and his danger to Brian. However, they are very much interrelated... to illustrate this point I am going to backup to my last post on Friday where I mentioned that Dennis's wife Karen discovered HEROIN in his underwear, on a plane, and flushed it down the toilet, while Dennis tried to wrestle it away from her, fighting and screaming her way into the lavatory, while passengers watched the spectacle. That flight was en route to New Zealand on the first leg of a three week tour. A tour in which Stephen sent a MEMO to every band and crew member stating that "on no uncertain terms" was any one permitted to loan or give money to Dennis or they would be immediately "terminated" without pay! Stephen also called Carl personally and requested that he give his "word" that he too would not give "any money" to Dennis for fear that Dennis would buy drugs and jeopardize what was named "The Comeback Tour"! Carl said... sure Steve... no problem... gotta go (and hung up). (inauspicious beginnings) Not only did Karen grab the very next flight back to L.A., she couldn't get away from her husband fast enough, but not before making a giant scene, screaming obscenities at him, while repeatedly hitting him over the head with his shoes walking to baggage claim, while all nearby onlookers stopped and stared, pointing fingers, at "The Ugly Americans," whispering... those are "The Beach Boys"!  Karen was appalled at Dennis for putting her at risk smuggling Heroin, onto a plane, that could have gotten them both arrested and resulted in "CAUSING AN INTERNATIONAL SCANDAL" and the cancellation of the entire Australian/New Zealand tour! Not least of all because they were completely "broke" and desperately needed this income, but because he had "PROMISED" her over and over that he would "NOT" do Heroin, the latest drug he swore he was not addicted to, on this three week tour! Three days later Dennis scored Heroin in Sydney, "WITH A HUNDRED DOLLARS "CARL GAVE DENNIS" who thought it was only "TOO COOL" to give half of the Heroin to Brian! Brian snorted all of it, that night in our Hotel Suite, and collapsed face down on the floor! Stan and I... as "FREAKED OUT" as we were tried desperately "NOT TO PANIC" carrying Brian's "motionless...lifeless" body into the bathtub, running cold shower water on him, while pouring  "BUCKETS OF ICE" in the water, causing him to shiver profusely, to keep Brian from slipping into a "COMA" ; as in "COMATOSE" ; as in "OVERDOSE"! Brian's eyes were unresponsive and rolled back up into his eye sockets, with only the whites of his eyes showing! While Stan and I prayed...PLEASE DON'T LET BRIAN DIE! The longest "45 minutes" of our lives past...until Brian slowly opened his eyes half way... and mumbled in a whisper...why am I in this "ICE BATH"? We then walked Brian around for an hour and a half. To cut to the chase...the next day a guy named Merlin came up to me at the "SOUND CHECK" and said "Brian keeps asking me to get him more Heroin"! I took Merlin over to Stephen and told him to repeat what he just told me! Stephen called an EMERGENCY MEETING that night in Mike's suite... where Carl immediately blurted out "I didn't have nothing to do with NO HEROIN... then David Frost proceeded to bluster, blubber and filibuster for the next hour and a half in his pompous way, all hyperbole and grandiosity doing his best to cajole, manipulate, deceive, subvert, accuse, flatter, some saber- rattling and threatening...At some point I interjected... Carl we know you gave Dennis $100 bucks...Carl belched and in slurred speech said...You don't know F_ _ _ ALL...Rocky... "Don't talk to me... talk to someone else" F_ _ _ YOU... Rocky! "NEED I GO ON? The meeting ended abruptly!