What if the Beach Boys had fired Mike Love?

[Ron]

I think where most people have their head up their ass about this stuff is, we hear the music and think of the band artistically because of the way it makes us feel when we hear the music.  This bleeds over into every conversation about the band.

The band, however, Brian included, sees the band as a vehicle to make money.  Every single one of them has said this, and it's their job, so of course that's how they see it.  The artistic parts of it are fulfilling but they work at this to make money.  It's their job.  

Mike is the one that has made that job make them money for over 50 years now.  When Mike's out playing the Mohecian Sun casino or playing some stupid fair in Nebraska, he sends Brian and the others a nice fat piece of it in the mail.  

Brian's genius gave them the wonderful music that people want to hear in the first place, but everybody knows you don't make money in the music industry without touring.  Brian's probably attended 1/10th of the Beach Boys live shows and has gotten paid for 10/10 of them.  Why in the world Mike gets blamed for that I will never know.  

[Oswald Thatendswald]

I think where most people have their head up their ass about this stuff is, we hear the music and think of the band artistically because of the way it makes us feel when we hear the music.  This bleeds over into every conversation about the band.

The band, however, Brian included, sees the band as a vehicle to make money.  Every single one of them has said this, and it's their job, so of course that's how they see it.  The artistic parts of it are fulfilling but they work at this to make money.  It's their job.  

Mike is the one that has made that job make them money for over 50 years now.  When Mike's out playing the Mohecian Sun casino or playing some stupid fair in Nebraska, he sends Brian and the others a nice fat piece of it in the mail.  

Brian's genius gave them the wonderful music that people want to hear in the first place, but everybody knows you don't make money in the music industry without touring.  Brian's probably attended 1/10th of the Beach Boys live shows and has gotten paid for 10/10 of them.  Why in the world Mike gets blamed for that I will never know.  

 

[Andrew G. Doe]

The band, however, Brian included, sees the band as a vehicle to make money.  Every single one of them has said this, and it's their job, so of course that's how they see it.  The artistic parts of it are fulfilling but they work at this to make money.  It's their job.  

Flag on the play #1 - I don't recall Brian ever saying this. In fact...

Flag on the play #2 - Pretty much the reverse - in a sixties interview he stated (I paraphrase slightly, it's 6.55am here and I'm remembering this) "I've never written a single note to make money". And I completely believe him.

[Andrew G. Doe]

The Alamo, like Plymouth Rock, is so disappointingly unimpressive in person.

As am I. 

[Sheriff John Stone]

The band, however, Brian included, sees the band as a vehicle to make money.  Every single one of them has said this, and it's their job, so of course that's how they see it.  The artistic parts of it are fulfilling but they work at this to make money.  It's their job.  

Flag on the play #1 - I don't recall Brian ever saying this. In fact...

Flag on the play #2 - Pretty much the reverse - in a sixties interview he stated (I paraphrase slightly, it's 6.55am here and I'm remembering this) "I've never written a single note to make money". And I completely believe him.

AGD, the interview where Brian said that was probably 50 years ago. A lot changed in 50 years. I interpreted Ron's quote, "The band, however, Brian included, sees the band as a vehicle to make money" as present tense and referring more to touring, though I stand to be corrected.

Even if it isn't present tense, in my opinion, I wonder if that attitude (the band members seeing The Beach Boys as a vehicle to make money) doesn't go back several decades? Did Brian Wilson vote to give the touring license to Mike Love for artistic reasons? According to posters on this board, with Mike doing such a terrible job in upholding the group's legacy by inviting Stamos on stage, presenting a "tribute band", and not allowing Brian to be in his own group, I wonder what possible reason Brian Wilson would have to allow Mike Love to continue with the touring license?

[branaa09]

cuHsin brYhan couldn't tour after his mental breakdown, and with no Mike there would be nobody who could be a frontman.  The lack of touring presence surely would have killed the chances of any resurgent popularity, and the band would have faded into obscurity.

Ok bud you don't know your facts and for two you were reported for posting bs that isn't true. Brian did tour after his breakdown: in 1967 in Hawaii, during the 1970s  a fill in for Mike when he was sick and even the 80's. Read some more and get your facts straight. I like all the Beach Boys by the way including Mike.

[SenorPotatoHead]

The Alamo, like Plymouth Rock, is so disappointingly unimpressive in person.

Most things are I guess.  I have not seen either - Alamo or Plymouth Rock, least not that I can recall, but then the lack of impressiveness may have rendered them null in my memories.
Forget the Alamo, remember Alpo, cos puppy is hungry.

[SenorPotatoHead]

Theres no basement at the Alamo!

Well, that ain't good.  A basement is necessary, particularly if you dig worms, which, ya know, I might.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Theres no basement at the Alamo!

Well, that ain't good.  A basement is necessary, particularly if you dig worms, which, ya know, I might.

[Lee Marshall]

Ron...I think that money is certainly part of the equation and for some of the 'boys' more than others.  Getting a song on the radio and hearing it played there was a key.  Still is.  Brian wants to HEAR his songs on the radio.  THEN it's a hit.  Sitting behind the control board and bringing the 'vision' of a final sound [the one he's already heard in his head] to fruition is NOT about the dough.  Sure money pays bills and buys stuff and Brian appreciates that I would guess.  But as motivation I doubt the dough matters very much at all.

I'd also venture to suggest that Bruce has more money than he'll need to get to the finish line and leave the family in good shape.  [if that's his plan and I think it likely is]  I think he tours and plays for something other than just the money.

Perhaps YOUR head needs a minor re-adjustment?

[KDS]

At this point in their lives, I doubt that Brian or Mike do it solely for the money. 

Mike and Bruce do over 150 shows a year.  I'm sure they could do a third of those dates and still live very comfortably for the rest of their days.  So, for them to work that hard at their age, I'm sure it's more than just money. 

Brian never needs to put out another record, but he still does, and we're the better for it.  Plus, he's out there quite a bit too. 

[Cyncie]

The guy who works for the utility company goes to work each day because he needs the paycheck and can't make the bills unless he does. At this point, when each member of this band is worth millions, I don't think that's quite the case for them. They do what they do because that's all they've ever done.

Mike tours incessantly because he likes it. Brian needs to get into the studio to keep from stagnating. At a point when Brian really didn't care what happened to the touring band, Mike was able to make it into his own version. Upside is, the music goes on. Downside is, they're not exactly building a legacy band. Brian was short sighted not to see the importance of the touring group down the line, and Mike is now equally short sighted not to see how much more the band (and the brand) would be respected and valued if it included the rest of the original members, including the one who wrote those hits.

The band could have disbanded and gone their separate ways when the conflict and the creative slide started. Then The Beach Boys could have stayed frozen in time, the way the Beatles have, with no poorly done shows or cheese ball TV appearances to sully the image. But, using that model would require each member to go out on their own as solo artists. The problem is, there aren't any superstar solo artists in this group. The only one who made any inroads in that area was Dennis, and he was already on a personal downward spiral by then, so you wonder how long he could have carried a solo career. The Beach Boys stayed together because they had to. The band and the music was bigger than any individual member. Mike knows this. That's why, for all his bluster and ego massaging, you don't see him touring as Mike Love's Beach Bash featuring Bruce's Shorts and John Stamos. That's also why he doesn't care if Al and Brian are a part of the group. He knows the name will sell enough tickets to keep him working the way he wants.  I suspect he also knows that this would be equally true without Mike Love.

In my opinion, no one was ever fired and no one ever really quit The Beach Boys because without The Beach Boys there was no where to go. No one wanted to mess with the formula. A few tried. It didn't work out, and they came back. Brian has been sort of separated out by force, due to his illness and his prolonged time with Landy. Fortunately, he's been able to create a late life solo career, but even that is partly based in the strength of his earlier reputation.

As Mike was fond of saying in the C50, The Beach Boys were greater than the sum of their parts. I'm glad I got to see the C50 concert, because it looks like we will never see that creative synergy again.

[Robbie Mac]

The Beach Boys never would have fired Mike Love, he was doing most of the heavy lifting. 

[Lonely Summer]

It's all personal taste. I like Bread and Firefall. I can dig Carl's more soft rock direction after Holland. But then again, LA is one of my favorite of the band's records, so I might be a smidge biased.

I like Carl's songs; but then again, I'm guilty of liking post-Holland, non-Love You Beach Boys.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Ron...I think that money is certainly part of the equation and for some of the 'boys' more than others.  Getting a song on the radio and hearing it played there was a key.  Still is.  Brian wants to HEAR his songs on the radio.  THEN it's a hit.  Sitting behind the control board and bringing the 'vision' of a final sound [the one he's already heard in his head] to fruition is NOT about the dough.  Sure money pays bills and buys stuff and Brian appreciates that I would guess.  But as motivation I doubt the dough matters very much at all.

I'd also venture to suggest that Bruce has more money than he'll need to get to the finish line and leave the family in good shape.  [if that's his plan and I think it likely is]  I think he tours and plays for something other than just the money.

Perhaps YOUR head needs a minor re-adjustment?

I agree. In fact, I don't think Mike tours for the money. He just seems to love doing it. Loves being a rock star!

[c-man]

cuHsin brYhan couldn't tour after his mental breakdown, and with no Mike there would be nobody who could be a frontman.  The lack of touring presence surely would have killed the chances of any resurgent popularity, and the band would have faded into obscurity.

Ok bud you don't know your facts and for two you were reported for posting bs that isn't true. Brian did tour after his breakdown: in 1967 in Hawaii, during the 1970s  a fill in for Mike when he was sick and even the 80's. Read some more and get your facts straight. I like all the Beach Boys by the way including Mike.

It's more correct to say that Brian wouldn't tour after his breakdown. The two nights in Hawaii and the very brief Pacific Northwest tour were isolated exceptions. There were a few others, mostly in '65. But the point is still essentially a valid one.

[Andrew G. Doe]

BW onstage post 12/23/64 until 1976:

1965
February
12 - Convention Hall, Philadelphia PA
13 - Academy of Music, New York NY [two shows]
14 - The Mosque Theater, Newark, NJ
17 - Rhodes Ballroom, Cranston, RI
18 - Memorial Auditorium, Worcester, MA

July
  3 - Hollywood Bowl, Hollywood CA

1966
October
22 - University of Michigan, Ann Arbor MI [2 shows] - encore of 2nd show

1967
August
25 - HIC Arena, Honolulu HI
26 - HIC Arena, Honolulu HI

1970
February
26 - Gonzaga University, Spokane WA* [2 shows]
27 - Queen Elizabeth Theatre, Vancouver BC, Canada [2 shows]
28 - Opera House, Seattle WA* [2 shows]
March     
  1 - Civic Auditorium, Portland OR [2 shows]

November
  4 - Whisky A Go-Go, Los Angeles CA [2 shows]
  5 - Whisky A Go-Go, Los Angeles CA [1st show only]

1971
December
  3 - Long Beach Arena, Long Beach CA (one song only)

1973
April
20 - Hollywood Palladium, Hollywood CA (encore only, possibly in a non-performing role)

[Fire Wind]

I guess money's pretty important for everyone.  Rich people generally don't just stop tryin to make money once they've made it.  They must feel some self-esteem when it comes in, shows their current value in the world.  It's an indicator of success, makes people feel good about themselves even if they're already stupidly loaded.

As for how the bandmembers regard the band, I agree with Ron, it's a job for them.  It reminds me of this quote from Brian,

"I don't really like working with the guys," he said, "but it all depends on how we feel and how much money's involved. Money's not the only reason I made records, but it does hold a place in our lives."

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2011/sep/29/brian-wilson-beach-boys

Reading that article today, yeesh, I'm not surprised the tour ended how it did.

[Lonely Summer]

I think it is a job. It looks glamourous to us, and there is a fair amount of glory attached to it, but mostly it is trudging around, town to town, playing the same songs every night. And just like any other job, they have co-workers they don't get along with, and some they really enjoy being with. Mike and Bruce obviously enjoy working together - mostly, I suspect, because because Bruce lets Mike run the show. It's like Mike is the President, and Bruce is Vice President - he's there mostly in title. Doesn't do much, but Mike enjoys having him around, and Bruce likes the money he makes traveling with the band.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

If Mike had been fired we'd have peace in the Middle East, a cure for cancer and an end to world hunger.

[bossaroo]

what if the Beach Boys had fired Brian Wilson and Al Jar-- oh, wait... 

[Lonely Summer]

what if the Beach Boys had fired Brian Wilson and Al Jar-- oh, wait... 

[Jukka]

Had they fired Mike Love, the band would have gone to sh*t. He is the lead singer of the Beach Boys. You don't have to love him, but show some respect. I mean, put on Little Honda or Dance, Dance, Dance and hear him snarl those great lyrics like a boss he is. I don't really care if he's a dick in his person, when it comes to music he's the only one who could have done what he did. I'm a fan.

[Mike's Beard]

Great singers as the others were, Mike was the only one out of them capable of fronting the group.

[phirnis]

[...] The Beach Boys stayed together because they had to. The band and the music was bigger than any individual member. Mike knows this. That's why, for all his bluster and ego massaging, you don't see him touring as Mike Love's Beach Bash featuring Bruce's Shorts and John Stamos. That's also why he doesn't care if Al and Brian are a part of the group. He knows the name will sell enough tickets to keep him working the way he wants.  I suspect he also knows that this would be equally true without Mike Love.

Very good points overall but this last one I don't really believe. I fully appreciate Mike's contributions to the group on and off stage. Judging from interviews, however, he just doesn't strike me as a very humble person who would see things that way. Maybe that's just what comes with being the frontman.