What if the Beach Boys had fired Mike Love?

[Lonely Summer]

Okay, it's been established that Mike Love has done more to bring down the Beach Boys name than any person in history, he's a hairless dork who sings bad, can't play an instrument, and thinks John Stamos is the definition of cool (as opposed to Dennis Wilson). He's the leader of the biggest fraud in rock history, that being the group he currently leads as "the Beach Boys". He lead them off the path of the cool and hip to the trail of nostalgia and Kokomo. So why didn't the other BB's just fire the sob? Imagine how much more respect the band would have today if Carl and Dennis had taken over the band in 1977. They probably would have fired Al, too, for being "clean Jardine", but brought him back later when they realized how much they missed his singing. They could have spared us the embarrassment of HCTN disco, Full House appearances, SIP, and best of all, Dennis would still be alive. Instead of touring every summer, they'd only go out once every 3 or 4 years as the Stones do. Brian could join them if he felt like it, but he would be focused primarily on making new music for them. Mike could tour Sea World and other theme parks, county fairs, bars and bakeries all year 'round, but only as "Mike Love's Endless Summer Band" or "Looking Back with Mike Love's Beach Band".

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

This wont end well

[c-man]

"It's been established" by who? You? Even David Leaf, one of the biggest Brianistas in history, gave Mike credit for being "the man who makes the live shows work." I'd hardly call that "bringing down the Beach Boys' name". Even if you believe Mike Love is satan himself, sometimes you gotta give the devil his due. And, Mike Love is hardly Satan. He just has a different definition of success than Brian. As far as him touring with his own band under the Beach Boys' brand - well, that was signed off on by Brian, Al, and Carl's estate, so that's like saying a new run of currency is fraudulent just 'cause it looks different, even if it's endorsed by the U.S. Treasury Dept.!

[Emily]

Cause the Wilsons are really really nice and have a lot of undeserved guilt.

[SMiLE Brian]

It's a trap.

[Andrew G. Doe]

OK, it's been established that the opening post is entirely worthless.

"...and best of all, Dennis would still be alive."

And that's probably the most inaccurate claim in said post: by 1977, DW was already heading south at an increasing trot. Troll-bait, and poor troll bait at that.

[Douchepool]

I don't know what this is supposed to accomplish.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Oh, the usual. 

[Senator Blutarsky]

 

[Emily]

Regarding the ongoing Mike Love wars... Wow, Beach Boys fans are obviously really deeply divided into two acrimonious sets... myself not excepted. It's almost like there should be separate boards.
I mean, there are people who really perceive that Mike Love has been a negative factor from the beginning and people who perceive the absolute opposite. I assume there are those in the middle also, but could the two polar groups find any accommodation? I don't really think so.
If you're a member of a message board committed to a single band and you think one guy is essentially the Vader of the band you aren't going to get comfy with people saying he's Skywalker. And vice versa. Right?
What to do?

[Lonely Summer]

Well, I don't myself see Mike Love as Satan, but there do seem to be a lot of fans who feel that way about him. Personally, I was glad I got to see the touring Beach Boys many times in the 80's/90's, never minded Mike's corny banter, and yes, I bought Kokomo. Even watched them on Full House and - gasp! - enjoyed it. So this question was more for the fans that see things differently than I do.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

Oh, the usual. 

Then why are you here participating?  

[Andrew G. Doe]

I find all the incontinent spluttering, juvenile posturing and inchoate wittering endlessly amusing. Who needs the happy pills ? 

[clack]

I disagree with the assumption that Carl could ever have been the musical/creative savior of the band. Have you listened to his post-Holland songs? Bland, if sometimes tuneful, MOR stuff.

Carl would not have saved the band's rep, unless you think that Bread or Firefall are highly regarded groups.

[c-man]

OK, it's been established that the opening post is entirely worthless.

"...and best of all, Dennis would still be alive."

And that's probably the most inaccurate claim in said post: by 1977, DW was already heading south at an increasing trot. Troll-bait, and poor troll bait at that.

Yeah, that plus disco HCTN being Mike's fault...it had nothing to do with him! Brian's the one who brought Bruce back, Bruce brought Curt Becher in for that song, and the two of them convinced Guercio and the band that it would be a good idea to go that route with that song!

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

I disagree with the assumption that Carl could ever have been the musical/creative savior of the band. Have you listened to his post-Holland songs? Bland, if sometimes tuneful, MOR stuff.

Carl would not have saved the band's rep, unless you think that Bread or Firefall are highly regarded groups.

Agreed. The best singer but worst songwriter of the Wilsons. After hearing so many build up Feel Flows and Long Promised Road both left me very underwhelmed last year upon first listen. Today, I cant even remember what they sound like

[Douchepool]

It's all personal taste. I like Bread and Firefall. I can dig Carl's more soft rock direction after Holland. But then again, LA is one of my favorite of the band's records, so I might be a smidge biased.

[SamMcK]

I'll say this, it wouldn't have been The Beach Boys without his co-lead vocals, especially 1962-1966. Brian and Mike were a great combination together, and if he'd have left i'd have definitely missed his later vocals like All I Wanna Do, Big Sur, Meant For You and his lyrical contributions. I think he's contributed more positives than negatives to the group during their peak era, and in the end its going to be the 1961-1978 period thats going to be most remembered, not the later embarrassments he influenced like John Stamos, SIP, The R&R Hall of Fame speech or performing at Sea World or whatever.

[The Shift]

To my ears, and to my understanding of the way things panned out, Carl together with Stephen Desper saved the band's ass after Brian took a back seat post Smile, and as his involvement ebbed further during and beyond the SS/WH/Friends era. It was they who added the necessary polish and sheen to unfinished tracks like Prayer, Cabinessence and Surf's Up. 20/20, Sunflower, Surf's Up, CATP, Holland… nought without their input. Carl's songwriting chops might not have always had the same strengths of those of Brian and Dennis but his ability and professionalism in finishing what others had abandoned saw the band through their second period of great creativity. Never fully acknowledged…

[SenorPotatoHead]

Thing is, about all this stuff, is that it's too late now.  What I mean is, I have some unhappiness over decisions the band made along the way - they made some of the worst decisions of any major band ever, but this wasn't all Mike Love's doing.   They did what they did and became what they became and lost much of their credibility as a "current band" long ago - but they retained their "American icon/perennial favorite" status.  So, whatever.  Look, as depressing as this is to acknowledge - all these guys are gonna be gone in the not too distant future.  So take what you can get and simply enjoy the music.  The Mike/Bruce band (from all I have heard) provide great shows which make a lot of people happy, and Brian does the same.   That's all that matters anymore.   Anything else is over.  Done.  All the battles of the past are just that, and maybe the resolutions of those battles are not what I, you or some other bingo Dan would have liked - tough (so tough, even), doesn't matter anymore.  It's gone, kaput.  Enjoy what music you enjoy and don't listen to the rest.  Remember the Alamo and don't leave your chewin' gum on the bed post overnight.  

[Emily]

Thing is, about all this stuff, is that it's too late now.  What I mean is, I have some unhappiness over decisions the band made along the way - they made some of the worst decisions of any major band ever, but this wasn't all Mike Love's doing.   They did what they did and became what they became and lost much of their credibility as a "current band" long ago - but they retained their "American icon/perennial favorite" status.  So, whatever.  Look, as depressing as this is to acknowledge - all these guys are gonna be gone in the not too distant future.  So take what you can get and simply enjoy the music.  The Mike/Bruce band (from all I have heard) provide great shows which make a lot of people happy, and Brian does the same.   That's all that matters anymore.   Anything else is over.  Done.  All the battles of the past are just that, and maybe the resolutions of those battles are not what I, you or some other bingo Dan would have liked - tough (so tough, even), doesn't matter anymore.  It's gone, kaput.  Enjoy what music you enjoy and don't listen to the rest.  Remember the Alamo and don't leave your chewin' gum on the bed post overnight.  

The Alamo, like Plymouth Rock, is so disappointingly unimpressive in person.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Theres no basement at the Alamo!

[JakeH]

So why didn't the other BB's just fire the sob? 

I'll bite and take the question seriously - but when you do that, the question (at least to me) asks for the impossible: History tells us that Mike Love cannot be "fired," ever, from the thing called "The Beach Boys," any more than Brian Wilson can be fired, or Dennis or Carl.  It violates the Laws of Nature; it's like asking what if birds didn't have wings and didn't lay eggs. The only way a Wilson really leaves the group is the way Dennis and Carl left (and even then, as the concert video screens demonstrate, they still don’t leave). The reasons for this are, I assume, deeply personal and complicated (financial considerations are always relevant too). So one question is, why is it that this group will not "fire" its core members the way other groups might?

Another question (perhaps re-framing the original question?) is - assuming that you accept that a Wilson cannot be fired - how come the Beach Boys didn't ever formally break up. In other words, the group collectively “fires itself."  (and then reunites periodically over ensuing decades/years when an infusion of cash is needed).  While sacking a Wilson is an impossibility, the group members simply going their separate ways could conceivably have occurred at various points in time (and eventually this did, in effect, happen very late in the game between the surviving family members).  1977 was perhaps the most obvious point, when, if the books are true, they were indeed about to pull the plug (why else would everybody bring a lawyer to a group meeting).

Folks who don't like Mike Love perhaps shouldn't be asking why some combination of Wilson Bros. didn't fire Mike; maybe the question is why did these guys refuse to call it a day (yet another thing the Beatles did "right" - they recognized when something was over - Lennon even wrote a song about it).

[Ron]

The Beach Boys never would have fired Mike Love, he was doing most of the heavy lifting. 

[Oswald Thatendswald]

cuHsin brYhan couldn't tour after his mental breakdown, and with no Mike there would be nobody who could be a frontman.  The lack of touring presence surely would have killed the chances of any resurgent popularity, and the band would have faded into obscurity.