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Author Topic: What if there were no Stamos?  (Read 20224 times)
HeyJude
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« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2015, 07:57:43 AM »

Without the Beach Boys' appearances on several John Stamos-related TV shows, you would have over a million less fans of The Beach Boys music, several thousand less fans of Dennis Wilson's music, and several thousand less fans who were surprised/happy/entertained by Stamos' appearances at Beach Boys' concerts. I think that when people go to work the day after a Beach Boys' concert, after saying what a great show it was, the next sentence would be happily saying that John Stamos was there and sang, played drums, and played guitar.

I question how many new true fans Stamos brought to the table. Surely some. But "Summer in Paradise" didn't even *chart*. As in, it wasn't in the top 200 albums. That album had the Stamos track on it, and was released during the show's popular run and his "Forever" cover version was interwoven into multiple episodes on the show around that same time. Stamos had  a "Summer in Paradise" poster on the wall on the show. Stamos bringing "millions of new fans" to the band coincided with their worst album chart performance of their career, and surely the worst selling studio album of their career.

He brought the Beach Boys a few spurts of attention more than anything else. "Kokomo" was already a hit when the band played it on the show.

As for concerts, I wonder how many tickets a tour billed as "Mike Love & John Stamos" would sell?
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« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2015, 08:04:05 AM »

There's no doubt that The Beach Boys don't really need John Stamos. 

But, I think anybody who flies the flag of The Beach Boys is OK in my book. 
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« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2015, 08:45:09 AM »

Sure,  he should be welcomed and accepted into "The Beach Boys" (licensed) family. And just like family, Mike should bring up his drug abuse every single time he's interviewed to make it official! 
Stamos started out with a minor role in a soap opera, with Demi Moore as a sidekick.  I don't miminize soap opera style (feuilliton -or daily newspaper installment style of publication) as that was Balzac's style of writing (a lawyer and subversive activist/novelist) in the 19th century. 

You're smarter than to buy into this crap, Ontor.  Listen, "neutrally" to all the interviews.  Dennis, Mike and Brian. Make three columns with the information (and not the personalities) and you might get a surprise. The information is identitical.  Bias creeps in and hurts cred.  And you can still dislike a person but try to separate the information from the speakers. Turn off the video. Just have the audio.

Stamos is a human like everyone else. And he started off at the bottom. 
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« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2015, 08:57:24 AM »

Without the Beach Boys' appearances on several John Stamos-related TV shows, you would have over a million less fans of The Beach Boys music, several thousand less fans of Dennis Wilson's music, and several thousand less fans who were surprised/happy/entertained by Stamos' appearances at Beach Boys' concerts. I think that when people go to work the day after a Beach Boys' concert, after saying what a great show it was, the next sentence would be happily saying that John Stamos was there and sang, played drums, and played guitar.

I question how many new true fans Stamos brought to the table. Surely some. But "Summer in Paradise" didn't even *chart*. As in, it wasn't in the top 200 albums. That album had the Stamos track on it, and was released during the show's popular run and his "Forever" cover version was interwoven into multiple episodes on the show around that same time. Stamos had  a "Summer in Paradise" poster on the wall on the show. Stamos bringing "millions of new fans" to the band coincided with their worst album chart performance of their career, and surely the worst selling studio album of their career.

The first album released during Full House's popular run was Still Cruisin' which went platinum. The first Beach Boys' major comp released during/after the show's popular run that included Dennis' "Forever" was Good Vibrations: Thirty Years Of The Beach Boys, which went gold. And, in my opinion, what units of Summer In Paradise that were sold were aided by "Forever", not despite it. I will agree with your point that the Summer In Paradise poster on Stamos' wall didn't have much of an effect on sales.
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HeyJude
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« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2015, 09:13:33 AM »

Without the Beach Boys' appearances on several John Stamos-related TV shows, you would have over a million less fans of The Beach Boys music, several thousand less fans of Dennis Wilson's music, and several thousand less fans who were surprised/happy/entertained by Stamos' appearances at Beach Boys' concerts. I think that when people go to work the day after a Beach Boys' concert, after saying what a great show it was, the next sentence would be happily saying that John Stamos was there and sang, played drums, and played guitar.

I question how many new true fans Stamos brought to the table. Surely some. But "Summer in Paradise" didn't even *chart*. As in, it wasn't in the top 200 albums. That album had the Stamos track on it, and was released during the show's popular run and his "Forever" cover version was interwoven into multiple episodes on the show around that same time. Stamos had  a "Summer in Paradise" poster on the wall on the show. Stamos bringing "millions of new fans" to the band coincided with their worst album chart performance of their career, and surely the worst selling studio album of their career.

The first album released during Full House's popular run was Still Cruisin' which went platinum. The first Beach Boys' major comp released during/after the show's popular run that included Dennis' "Forever" was Good Vibrations: Thirty Years Of The Beach Boys, which went gold. And, in my opinion, what units of Summer In Paradise that were sold were aided by "Forever", not despite it. I will agree with your point that the Summer In Paradise poster on Stamos' wall didn't have much of an effect on sales.

“Still Cruisin’” went gold because it had “Kokomo” on it more than anything else. Its connection to “Full House” was nil. The Beach Boys had appeared on other TV shows in some capacity or another in the nearly full year between their first appearance on “Full House” and the release of “Still Cruisin’.” If the Beach Boys had been regular cast members on the show, then I’d buy that any subsequent release of theirs would be fueled by the TV show. A cameo appearance or two, not so much.

I also don’t buy any connection between the ’93 boxed set and “Full House.” How many people liked specifically the Stamos covers of “Forever” on the TV show, then decided they wanted the original recording, and then bought a five-disc boxed set as a result? The GV boxed set sold as well as it did because it was filled with BB hits. It was the band’s first major boxed set released of that nature in the CD era. It had “Smile” material on it, and other outtakes.

As far as “SIP”, it’s kind of semantics as to whether a non-charting, worst-selling album performance was a case of Stamos not helping, or not helping enough. If Stamos had any impact on sales, it was *measurably* so poor that one could argue The Fat Boys brought the Beach Boys more fans that Stamos did. “Stars and Stripes” charted better (#101 in the Top 200, and #12 on the Country Albums chart). This only matters if we’re trying to characterize how much Stamos *helped* the band’s career or popularity or number of fans. By the only measures we have available (anecdotes about baby boomers going to Mike’s shows and getting all hot and bothered when Stamos straps on his guitar don’t really count; Stamos is never the selling point of a “Beach Boys” show, and his appearance is never guaranteed), Stamos in his prime couldn’t give the Beach Boys even enough of a “boost” off the back of his popular sitcom and numerous BB and “Forever” cameos to even make “Summer in Paradise” one of the top *200* albums in the country for even a single week. Think about that. During the prime of “Full House”, there were at least *two hundred* albums that people were more interested in.
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« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2015, 09:26:33 AM »

Cruisin' which went platinum. The first Beach Boys' major comp released during/after the show's popular run that included Dennis' "Forever" was Good Vibrations: Thirty Years Of The Beach Boys, which went gold. And, in my opinion, what units of Summer In Paradise that were sold were aided by "Forever", not despite it. I will agree with your point that the Summer In Paradise poster on Stamos' wall didn't have much of an effect on sales.
How many people liked specifically the Stamos covers of “Forever” on the TV show, then decided they wanted the original recording, and then bought a five-disc boxed set as a result?
[/quote]

In my opinion, several thousand. I also think this ultimately led to several thousand fans discovering Pacific Ocean Blue.
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« Reply #31 on: October 29, 2015, 09:26:42 AM »

Without the Beach Boys' appearances on several John Stamos-related TV shows, you would have over a million less fans of The Beach Boys music, several thousand less fans of Dennis Wilson's music, and several thousand less fans who were surprised/happy/entertained by Stamos' appearances at Beach Boys' concerts. I think that when people go to work the day after a Beach Boys' concert, after saying what a great show it was, the next sentence would be happily saying that John Stamos was there and sang, played drums, and played guitar.
I question how many new true fans Stamos brought to the table. Surely some. But "Summer in Paradise" didn't even *chart*. As in, it wasn't in the top 200 albums. That album had the Stamos track on it, and was released during the show's popular run and his "Forever" cover version was interwoven into multiple episodes on the show around that same time. Stamos had  a "Summer in Paradise" poster on the wall on the show. Stamos bringing "millions of new fans" to the band coincided with their worst album chart performance of their career, and surely the worst selling studio album of their career.
The first album released during Full House's popular run was Still Cruisin' which went platinum. The first Beach Boys' major comp released during/after the show's popular run that included Dennis' "Forever" was Good Vibrations: Thirty Years Of The Beach Boys, which went gold. And, in my opinion, what units of Summer In Paradise that were sold were aided by "Forever", not despite it. I will agree with your point that the Summer In Paradise poster on Stamos' wall didn't have much of an effect on sales.
“Still Cruisin’” went gold because it had “Kokomo” on it more than anything else. Its connection to “Full House” was nil. The Beach Boys had appeared on other TV shows in some capacity or another in the nearly full year between their first appearance on “Full House” and the release of “Still Cruisin’.” If the Beach Boys had been regular cast members on the show, then I’d buy that any subsequent release of theirs would be fueled by the TV show. A cameo appearance or two, not so much.

I also don’t buy any connection between the ’93 boxed set and “Full House.” How many people liked specifically the Stamos covers of “Forever” on the TV show, then decided they wanted the original recording, and then bought a five-disc boxed set as a result? The GV boxed set sold as well as it did because it was filled with BB hits. It was the band’s first major boxed set released of that nature in the CD era. It had “Smile” material on it, and other outtakes.

As far as “SIP”, it’s kind of semantics as to whether a non-charting, worst-selling album performance was a case of Stamos not helping, or not helping enough. If Stamos had any impact on sales, it was *measurably* so poor that one could argue The Fat Boys brought the Beach Boys more fans that Stamos did. “Stars and Stripes” charted better (#101 in the Top 200, and #12 on the Country Albums chart). This only matters if we’re trying to characterize how much Stamos *helped* the band’s career or popularity or number of fans. By the only measures we have available (anecdotes about baby boomers going to Mike’s shows and getting all hot and bothered when Stamos straps on his guitar don’t really count; Stamos is never the selling point of a “Beach Boys” show, and his appearance is never guaranteed), Stamos in his prime couldn’t give the Beach Boys even enough of a “boost” off the back of his popular sitcom and numerous BB and “Forever” cameos to even make “Summer in Paradise” one of the top *200* albums in the country for even a single week. Think about that. During the prime of “Full House”, there were at least *two hundred* albums that people were more interested in.
Hey Jude - the GV box set was long overdue.  And, you're correct about the Smile tracks.  Discs 3 and 4 are outstanding in the same way that discs 5 and 6 are outstanding on MIC, also long overdue.

Stamos?  They offered one another "reciprocal opportunities" and from a business standpoint, it was a win-win for both. The BB's had a chance to build a new and a very young audience, and Stamos got a chance to be a "guest" on the road.  It gave him a platform outside of FH to interact with fans, in a different forum.  And them to be part of a crossover demographic.  But it is hilarious to me to see a Stamos thread crop up when there is a Mike interview debate.  Predicable.  Every time.   LOL
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« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2015, 09:33:11 AM »

Speaking from personal experience. 

When I decided to buy couple Beach Boy compilations back in 2006 or 2007, I got Sounds of Summer.  Then, I got Warmth of the Sun because it had All Summer Long, the title track, Catch a Wave, and........wait for it.......the song Forever, that was used in Full House when I was a kid. 

Listening to that compilation introduced me to songs like Surf's Up, Feel Flows, Til I Die, Kiss Me Baby, and Friends. 

So, because I wanted a compilation that had Forever on it because I was exposed to it on Full House (again, born in 1980, can't help it), I learned about so many other great BB songs. 

I'm not saying I wouldn't be a die hard BB/BW fan if not for Stamos.  But, just for food for thought.   
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HeyJude
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« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2015, 09:41:45 AM »

Without the Beach Boys' appearances on several John Stamos-related TV shows, you would have over a million less fans of The Beach Boys music, several thousand less fans of Dennis Wilson's music, and several thousand less fans who were surprised/happy/entertained by Stamos' appearances at Beach Boys' concerts. I think that when people go to work the day after a Beach Boys' concert, after saying what a great show it was, the next sentence would be happily saying that John Stamos was there and sang, played drums, and played guitar.
I question how many new true fans Stamos brought to the table. Surely some. But "Summer in Paradise" didn't even *chart*. As in, it wasn't in the top 200 albums. That album had the Stamos track on it, and was released during the show's popular run and his "Forever" cover version was interwoven into multiple episodes on the show around that same time. Stamos had  a "Summer in Paradise" poster on the wall on the show. Stamos bringing "millions of new fans" to the band coincided with their worst album chart performance of their career, and surely the worst selling studio album of their career.
The first album released during Full House's popular run was Still Cruisin' which went platinum. The first Beach Boys' major comp released during/after the show's popular run that included Dennis' "Forever" was Good Vibrations: Thirty Years Of The Beach Boys, which went gold. And, in my opinion, what units of Summer In Paradise that were sold were aided by "Forever", not despite it. I will agree with your point that the Summer In Paradise poster on Stamos' wall didn't have much of an effect on sales.
“Still Cruisin’” went gold because it had “Kokomo” on it more than anything else. Its connection to “Full House” was nil. The Beach Boys had appeared on other TV shows in some capacity or another in the nearly full year between their first appearance on “Full House” and the release of “Still Cruisin’.” If the Beach Boys had been regular cast members on the show, then I’d buy that any subsequent release of theirs would be fueled by the TV show. A cameo appearance or two, not so much.

I also don’t buy any connection between the ’93 boxed set and “Full House.” How many people liked specifically the Stamos covers of “Forever” on the TV show, then decided they wanted the original recording, and then bought a five-disc boxed set as a result? The GV boxed set sold as well as it did because it was filled with BB hits. It was the band’s first major boxed set released of that nature in the CD era. It had “Smile” material on it, and other outtakes.

As far as “SIP”, it’s kind of semantics as to whether a non-charting, worst-selling album performance was a case of Stamos not helping, or not helping enough. If Stamos had any impact on sales, it was *measurably* so poor that one could argue The Fat Boys brought the Beach Boys more fans that Stamos did. “Stars and Stripes” charted better (#101 in the Top 200, and #12 on the Country Albums chart). This only matters if we’re trying to characterize how much Stamos *helped* the band’s career or popularity or number of fans. By the only measures we have available (anecdotes about baby boomers going to Mike’s shows and getting all hot and bothered when Stamos straps on his guitar don’t really count; Stamos is never the selling point of a “Beach Boys” show, and his appearance is never guaranteed), Stamos in his prime couldn’t give the Beach Boys even enough of a “boost” off the back of his popular sitcom and numerous BB and “Forever” cameos to even make “Summer in Paradise” one of the top *200* albums in the country for even a single week. Think about that. During the prime of “Full House”, there were at least *two hundred* albums that people were more interested in.
Hey Jude - the GV box set was long overdue.  And, you're correct about the Smile tracks.  Discs 3 and 4 are outstanding in the same way that discs 5 and 6 are outstanding on MIC, also long overdue.

Stamos?  They offered one another "reciprocal opportunities" and from a business standpoint, it was a win-win for both. The BB's had a chance to build a new and a very young audience, and Stamos got a chance to be a "guest" on the road.  It gave him a platform outside of FH to interact with fans, in a different forum.  And them to be part of a crossover demographic.  But it is hilarious to me to see a Stamos thread crop up when there is a Mike interview debate.  Predicable.  Every time.   LOL

I’m sure Stamos, or any TV exposure, would only net the band fans. Indeed, I don’t think any actual true fan of the band *stopped* being a fan because of Stamos.

I think the degree to which he helped is simply being vastly overstated, and also ignores the negative impact he has on the band’s image in the eyes of some fans (not to the degree of no longer being fans, just the aforementioned blight). That the band released their worst-selling, lowest charting studio album of their careers at the height of the popularity of Stamos and Full House vastly undercuts any arguments that he gained the band “millions of fans.”

Surely, back in 1992, at least 10 or 20,000 of those *millions* of new fans would have shelled out the money for the new album. I think Stamos got millions of eyes and ears *on* the BBs and their music for short spurts of time. That’s very different from gaining millions of actual fans (to say nothing of sales). Same thing with BB appearances on the Tonight Show, or Solid Gold, or American Bandstand. If anything, I would assume a more music industry-oriented show like “American Bandstand” gained actual additional fans and sales for the band more than Stamos or “Full House.”

I also don’t think Stamos helped with ticket sales in any measurable way. He’s rarely if ever a guaranteed show at a concert, and it’s the BB name that sells tickets. Some casual fans who like seeing another celebrity on stage come away from a show and say “wow, wasn’t that cool that Uncle Jessie was on stage?” is not the same thing as Stamos driving the accumulation of fans, or ticket sales, etc.

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« Reply #34 on: October 29, 2015, 09:47:25 AM »


How many people liked specifically the Stamos covers of “Forever” on the TV show, then decided they wanted the original recording, and then bought a five-disc boxed set as a result?

In my opinion, several thousand. I also think this ultimately led to several thousand fans discovering Pacific Ocean Blue.

This is obviously impossible to measure, but I simply disagree. I think it’s laughable to suggest Stamos sold thousands of copies of the GV boxed set or “Pacific Ocean Blue”, considering he couldn’t even sell thousands of copies of the very BB album that he sings on himself.

What else makes the GV set different from “Summer in Paradise?” One is a quality set with quality material, and the other isn’t. I don’t think Stamos *hurt* sales of anything particularly, but he clearly didn’t help. To suggest he helped a 5-disc boxed set filled with their most popular songs and without any Stamos tracks on it sell, while ignoring the total failure of a cheaper BB album that has an actual Stamos track on it, is again laughable.   
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« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2015, 09:48:14 AM »

The only fan of Stamos in the group is Mike Love. Stamos is the bait he needs to have a great after-show party. Wink
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« Reply #36 on: October 29, 2015, 09:50:32 AM »

The only fan of Stamos in the group is Mike Love. Stamos is the bait he needs to have a great after-show party. Wink
And you know that how?
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« Reply #37 on: October 29, 2015, 09:51:11 AM »

Speaking from personal experience. 

When I decided to buy couple Beach Boy compilations back in 2006 or 2007, I got Sounds of Summer.  Then, I got Warmth of the Sun because it had All Summer Long, the title track, Catch a Wave, and........wait for it.......the song Forever, that was used in Full House when I was a kid. 

Listening to that compilation introduced me to songs like Surf's Up, Feel Flows, Til I Die, Kiss Me Baby, and Friends. 

So, because I wanted a compilation that had Forever on it because I was exposed to it on Full House (again, born in 1980, can't help it), I learned about so many other great BB songs. 

I'm not saying I wouldn't be a die hard BB/BW fan if not for Stamos.  But, just for food for thought.   

This demonstrates the typical, best-case scenario for how Stamos impacts the band. Someone remembers something about his connection fondly. But you were already a fan and looked for "Sounds of Summer" first. Similarly, people buy a ticket to hear BB music, and if Stamos is there, *some* folks find that exciting/interesting/noteworthy. But they're not there to see Stamos, and they're usually not there because they started out liking Stamos.

What others are suggesting is that he is driving anything in relation to fans, or sales, or ticket sales. I think he doesn't particularly serve this function any more than any tangential thing might. There are Rusty Anderson groupies that go to McCartney concerts to see Anderson. I have no doubt there is a select, very small group of Stamos devotees whose sole initiation and interest into BB fandom revolves around Stamos.
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« Reply #38 on: October 29, 2015, 09:56:33 AM »

Hey Jude, what you and some other people on this board fail to realize or accept - intentionally or unintentionally - is that these episodes of Full House featuring "Kokomo" or "Forever" or "Be True To Your School" or "Barbara Ann" or whatever weren't just broadcast one time in Palookaville in 1988. These Stamos-related TV shows were broadcast ALL OVER THE WORLD CONTINUOUSLY FOR THE LAST 30 YEARS! And, each time these songs are exposed to new viewers via the TV shows, a number of people get hooked, and the rest is history. New Beach Boys' fans are born. Three decades of Stamos shows now. That's a lot of new fans.
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« Reply #39 on: October 29, 2015, 09:57:51 AM »

For a lot of buyers the first official release of 40+ minutes of Smile material (in decent quality) was a big selling point for the 93 GV box set, alongside of course a more complete collection of all the classic hits in one package along with the rarities, before the internet made all this stuff instantly accessible.
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« Reply #40 on: October 29, 2015, 10:03:53 AM »

For a lot of buyers the first official release of 40+ minutes of Smile material (in decent quality) was a big selling point for the 93 GV box set, alongside of course a more complete collection of all the classic hits in one package along with the rarities, before the internet made all this stuff instantly accessible.
Exactly GF! - and at that point we had been waiting since 1967 for more Smile tracks.  About 25 years. And you are correct in that they are good quality pre-Internet. Love discs 3 & 4!  Brian, Dennis, & Carl
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« Reply #41 on: October 29, 2015, 10:05:06 AM »

Hey Jude, what you and some other people on this board fail to realize or accept - intentionally or unintentionally - is that these episodes of Full House featuring "Kokomo" or "Forever" or "Be True To Your School" or "Barbara Ann" or whatever weren't just broadcast one time in Palookaville in 1988. These Stamos-related TV shows were broadcast ALL OVER THE WORLD CONTINUOUSLY FOR THE LAST 30 YEARS! And, each time these songs are exposed to new viewers via the TV shows, a number of people get hooked, and the rest is history. New Beach Boys' fans are born. Three decades of Stamos shows now. That's a lot of new fans.
Yes Sheriff! Continuously for the last 30 years!

Try to buy that kind of publicity!  LOL
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« Reply #42 on: October 29, 2015, 10:05:29 AM »

Hey Jude, what you and some other people on this board fail to realize or accept - intentionally or unintentionally - is that these episodes of Full House featuring "Kokomo" or "Forever" or "Be True To Your School" or "Barbara Ann" or whatever weren't just broadcast one time in Palookaville in 1988. These Stamos-related TV shows were broadcast ALL OVER THE WORLD CONTINUOUSLY FOR THE LAST 30 YEARS! And, each time these songs are exposed to new viewers via the TV shows, a number of people get hooked, and the rest is history. New Beach Boys' fans are born. Three decades of Stamos shows now. That's a lot of new fans.

I understand well how worldwide syndication works. As I’ve said, any TV appearance is almost always going to do nothing but net the band fans. But the number of people who previously had zero interest in the band who, in 2015 watch a 27-year-old rerun of “Full House” and discover “Kokomo” and then get into the rest of the catalog, are likely few in number.

There’s really no “product” to measure how much Stamos helps the band accumulate fans. YouTube views don’t count, that’s free. Every BB product is first and foremost a “Beach Boys” product, so its main selling point is the band and its name and its music. I’m frankly not willing to buy that Stamos helps the band sell any hits compilations. The hits sell the hits compilations.

This idea that millions of people around the world watch “Full House” and launch into BB fandom is a conveniently abstract, immeasurable idea.

All sorts of tangential things sell BB product. McCartney mentioning "Pet Sounds" sells copies of PS. Your uncle playing "Be True to Your School" sells BB records. Hearing a song at Rite Aid sells BB music. All sorts of things do, including Stamos. But not in the "millions."

The one and only BB product closely linked directly to Stamos was one of if not the worst failures of the band’s career. I’d even buy that 90s nostalgia, and specifically Stamos/Full House nostalgia is at an uptick to the point that if they re-released “SIP”, it would *probably* sell more copies on iTunes now than it did physical copies back in 1992. But it would still be in the thousands, not millions. Given that they wouldn’t even include the “SIP” cover on album cover montages during C50 suggests to me perhaps someone (maybe Brian) feels that particular album/era should be retired.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2015, 10:08:43 AM by HeyJude » Logged

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« Reply #43 on: October 29, 2015, 10:13:25 AM »

Hey Jude, what you and some other people on this board fail to realize or accept - intentionally or unintentionally - is that these episodes of Full House featuring "Kokomo" or "Forever" or "Be True To Your School" or "Barbara Ann" or whatever weren't just broadcast one time in Palookaville in 1988. These Stamos-related TV shows were broadcast ALL OVER THE WORLD CONTINUOUSLY FOR THE LAST 30 YEARS! And, each time these songs are exposed to new viewers via the TV shows, a number of people get hooked, and the rest is history. New Beach Boys' fans are born. Three decades of Stamos shows now. That's a lot of new fans.

I understand well how worldwide syndication works. As I’ve said, any TV appearance is almost always going to do nothing but net the band fans. But the number of people who previously had zero interest in the band who, in 2015 watch a 27-year-old rerun of “Full House” and discover “Kokomo” and then get into the rest of the catalog, are likely few in number.

There’s really no “product” to measure how much Stamos helps the band accumulate fans. YouTube views don’t count, that’s free. Every BB product is first and foremost a “Beach Boys” product, so its main selling point is the band and its name and its music. I’m frankly not willing to buy that Stamos helps the band sell any hits compilations. The hits sell the hits compilations.

This idea that millions of people around the world watch “Full House” and launch into BB fandom is a conveniently abstract, immeasurable idea.

The one and only BB product closely linked directly to Stamos was one of if not the worst failures of the band’s career. I’d even buy that 90s nostalgia, and specifically Stamos/Full House nostalgia is at an uptick to the point that if they re-released “SIP”, it would *probably* sell more copies on iTunes now than it did physical copies back in 1992. But it would still be in the thousands, not millions. Given that they wouldn’t even include the “SIP” cover on album cover montages during C50 suggests to me perhaps someone (maybe Brian) feels that particular album/era should be retired.

They can't even quantify how many albums they've sold.  I'll tell you how one might try to quantify it.  Recently I sat next to a 4 year old with an Uncle Jesse shirt.  At a BB show.  And I taught 4 year olds during the original run of FH, and had my own kids during the 1980's.  

Are you confusing commercial success with a lack of artistic recognition?  Let's remember that Pet Sounds initial had neither.  And no bona fide promotion.

And every time I see the band, my kids first question is whether I "saw Stamos." They are FH era kids. KDS' first generation.  The argument fails based on value judgments.  
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« Reply #44 on: October 29, 2015, 10:23:27 AM »

Hey Jude, what you and some other people on this board fail to realize or accept - intentionally or unintentionally - is that these episodes of Full House featuring "Kokomo" or "Forever" or "Be True To Your School" or "Barbara Ann" or whatever weren't just broadcast one time in Palookaville in 1988. These Stamos-related TV shows were broadcast ALL OVER THE WORLD CONTINUOUSLY FOR THE LAST 30 YEARS! And, each time these songs are exposed to new viewers via the TV shows, a number of people get hooked, and the rest is history. New Beach Boys' fans are born. Three decades of Stamos shows now. That's a lot of new fans.

I understand well how worldwide syndication works. As I’ve said, any TV appearance is almost always going to do nothing but net the band fans. But the number of people who previously had zero interest in the band who, in 2015 watch a 27-year-old rerun of “Full House” and discover “Kokomo” and then get into the rest of the catalog, are likely few in number.

There’s really no “product” to measure how much Stamos helps the band accumulate fans. YouTube views don’t count, that’s free. Every BB product is first and foremost a “Beach Boys” product, so its main selling point is the band and its name and its music. I’m frankly not willing to buy that Stamos helps the band sell any hits compilations. The hits sell the hits compilations.

This idea that millions of people around the world watch “Full House” and launch into BB fandom is a conveniently abstract, immeasurable idea.

The one and only BB product closely linked directly to Stamos was one of if not the worst failures of the band’s career. I’d even buy that 90s nostalgia, and specifically Stamos/Full House nostalgia is at an uptick to the point that if they re-released “SIP”, it would *probably* sell more copies on iTunes now than it did physical copies back in 1992. But it would still be in the thousands, not millions. Given that they wouldn’t even include the “SIP” cover on album cover montages during C50 suggests to me perhaps someone (maybe Brian) feels that particular album/era should be retired.

They can't even quantify how many albums they've sold.  I'll tell you how one might try to quantify it.  Recently I sat next to a 4 year old with an Uncle Jesse shirt.  At a BB show.  And I taught 4 year olds during the original run of FH, and had my own kids during the 1980's.  

Are you confusing commercial success with a lack of artistic recognition?  Let's remember that Pet Sounds initial had neither.  And no bona fide promotion.

And every time I see the band, my kids first question is whether I "saw Stamos." They are FH era kids. KDS' first generation.  The argument fails based on value judgments.  

If we're talking about the band's worldwide fanbase, then your examples are the opposite of quantifying. Those are anecdotes. That children of a BB fan who celebrates Stamos extensively would also be into Stamos is not surprising.

If you want to say "I know some fans who got into the BBs because of Stamos", that's fine. If you want to start saying he has gained the band "millions" of fans, and helped "Still Cruisin'" and the GV boxed set go gold, then you need to start producing some evidence.

And yes, I'll point out the obvious that comparing the "lack of critical success" of "Pet Sounds" (which, I would say actually did have pretty solid *critical* success) to, apparently, the lack of critical success of "Summer In Paradise" or anything related to Stamos's connection with the band is beyond silly. The Stamos connection to the BBs is a laughing stock among critics and the rock press.

But that just gets us back into this weird political/sociological/cultural debate where obviously one side feels someone wearing an "Uncle Jessie" shirt at Mike's "Beach Boys" concert is more important than a good review from a respected music/rock critic. It's the same cultural divide that led to the trainwreck of Stamos crashing those C50 shows at the behest of Mike. That same cultural divide among fans was played out on stage among the actual band members (and in the audience among fans). Even Johns Stamos himself not only *knows* that divide exists, but he *understands* it and even seems to empathize with it.

« Last Edit: October 29, 2015, 10:25:06 AM by HeyJude » Logged

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« Reply #45 on: October 29, 2015, 10:29:12 AM »

Hey Jude, what you and some other people on this board fail to realize or accept - intentionally or unintentionally - is that these episodes of Full House featuring "Kokomo" or "Forever" or "Be True To Your School" or "Barbara Ann" or whatever weren't just broadcast one time in Palookaville in 1988. These Stamos-related TV shows were broadcast ALL OVER THE WORLD CONTINUOUSLY FOR THE LAST 30 YEARS! And, each time these songs are exposed to new viewers via the TV shows, a number of people get hooked, and the rest is history. New Beach Boys' fans are born. Three decades of Stamos shows now. That's a lot of new fans.

I understand well how worldwide syndication works. As I’ve said, any TV appearance is almost always going to do nothing but net the band fans. But the number of people who previously had zero interest in the band who, in 2015 watch a 27-year-old rerun of “Full House” and discover “Kokomo” and then get into the rest of the catalog, are likely few in number.

There’s really no “product” to measure how much Stamos helps the band accumulate fans. YouTube views don’t count, that’s free. Every BB product is first and foremost a “Beach Boys” product, so its main selling point is the band and its name and its music. I’m frankly not willing to buy that Stamos helps the band sell any hits compilations. The hits sell the hits compilations.

This idea that millions of people around the world watch “Full House” and launch into BB fandom is a conveniently abstract, immeasurable idea.

The one and only BB product closely linked directly to Stamos was one of if not the worst failures of the band’s career. I’d even buy that 90s nostalgia, and specifically Stamos/Full House nostalgia is at an uptick to the point that if they re-released “SIP”, it would *probably* sell more copies on iTunes now than it did physical copies back in 1992. But it would still be in the thousands, not millions. Given that they wouldn’t even include the “SIP” cover on album cover montages during C50 suggests to me perhaps someone (maybe Brian) feels that particular album/era should be retired.

They can't even quantify how many albums they've sold.  I'll tell you how one might try to quantify it.  Recently I sat next to a 4 year old with an Uncle Jesse shirt.  At a BB show.  And I taught 4 year olds during the original run of FH, and had my own kids during the 1980's.  

Are you confusing commercial success with a lack of artistic recognition?  Let's remember that Pet Sounds initial had neither.  And no bona fide promotion.

And every time I see the band, my kids first question is whether I "saw Stamos." They are FH era kids. KDS' first generation.  The argument fails based on value judgments.  

Funny you mention that, when my fiance and I went to see Mike, Bruce, and David this summer, the first question people around our age asked was "Was John Stamos there?"  My father was the only one who asked "Who sang Carl and Brian's parts?"  

But even if the numbers are few, anything that brings new fans to the music of The Beach Boys is a positive.  Be it, seeing a Beach Boys Full House appearance in 1989, seeing it in syndication in 2015, or hearing Wouldn't It Be Nice on Stamos new show, Grandfathered.  
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« Reply #46 on: October 29, 2015, 10:50:20 AM »

Hey Jude, what you and some other people on this board fail to realize or accept - intentionally or unintentionally - is that these episodes of Full House featuring "Kokomo" or "Forever" or "Be True To Your School" or "Barbara Ann" or whatever weren't just broadcast one time in Palookaville in 1988. These Stamos-related TV shows were broadcast ALL OVER THE WORLD CONTINUOUSLY FOR THE LAST 30 YEARS! And, each time these songs are exposed to new viewers via the TV shows, a number of people get hooked, and the rest is history. New Beach Boys' fans are born. Three decades of Stamos shows now. That's a lot of new fans.

I understand well how worldwide syndication works. As I’ve said, any TV appearance is almost always going to do nothing but net the band fans. But the number of people who previously had zero interest in the band who, in 2015 watch a 27-year-old rerun of “Full House” and discover “Kokomo” and then get into the rest of the catalog, are likely few in number.

There’s really no “product” to measure how much Stamos helps the band accumulate fans. YouTube views don’t count, that’s free. Every BB product is first and foremost a “Beach Boys” product, so its main selling point is the band and its name and its music. I’m frankly not willing to buy that Stamos helps the band sell any hits compilations. The hits sell the hits compilations.

This idea that millions of people around the world watch “Full House” and launch into BB fandom is a conveniently abstract, immeasurable idea.

The one and only BB product closely linked directly to Stamos was one of if not the worst failures of the band’s career. I’d even buy that 90s nostalgia, and specifically Stamos/Full House nostalgia is at an uptick to the point that if they re-released “SIP”, it would *probably* sell more copies on iTunes now than it did physical copies back in 1992. But it would still be in the thousands, not millions. Given that they wouldn’t even include the “SIP” cover on album cover montages during C50 suggests to me perhaps someone (maybe Brian) feels that particular album/era should be retired.

They can't even quantify how many albums they've sold.  I'll tell you how one might try to quantify it.  Recently I sat next to a 4 year old with an Uncle Jesse shirt.  At a BB show.  And I taught 4 year olds during the original run of FH, and had my own kids during the 1980's.  

Are you confusing commercial success with a lack of artistic recognition?  Let's remember that Pet Sounds initial had neither.  And no bona fide promotion.

And every time I see the band, my kids first question is whether I "saw Stamos." They are FH era kids. KDS' first generation.  The argument fails based on value judgments.  

If we're talking about the band's worldwide fanbase, then your examples are the opposite of quantifying. Those are anecdotes. That children of a BB fan who celebrates Stamos extensively would also be into Stamos is not surprising.

If you want to say "I know some fans who got into the BBs because of Stamos", that's fine. If you want to start saying he has gained the band "millions" of fans, and helped "Still Cruisin'" and the GV boxed set go gold, then you need to start producing some evidence.

And yes, I'll point out the obvious that comparing the "lack of critical success" of "Pet Sounds" (which, I would say actually did have pretty solid *critical* success) to, apparently, the lack of critical success of "Summer In Paradise" or anything related to Stamos's connection with the band is beyond silly. The Stamos connection to the BBs is a laughing stock among critics and the rock press.

But that just gets us back into this weird political/sociological/cultural debate where obviously one side feels someone wearing an "Uncle Jessie" shirt at Mike's "Beach Boys" concert is more important than a good review from a respected music/rock critic. It's the same cultural divide that led to the trainwreck of Stamos crashing those C50 shows at the behest of Mike. That same cultural divide among fans was played out on stage among the actual band members (and in the audience among fans). Even Johns Stamos himself not only *knows* that divide exists, but he *understands* it and even seems to empathize with it.
Hey Jude - let's dispense with your assumptions that I was always a fan.  I was an "observer."  And the reason I knew that the BB's were on TV is because my kids told me.  I didn't plop them in front of the screen and watch FH with them.  I had a working mother's duties, like laundry and lunches for the next day.  Two jobs.  They saw the BB's one night and hollered to me to come and watch them with Uncle Jesse.  It was a show that you could let your kids watch without violence. I became a fan when I watched the way in which he showed enormous kindness to special needs kids and adults.  

You think the comparison is silly? As a teen I watched the whole scenario evolve.  And now, "new" evidence that exonerates the work of Pet Sounds  has cropped up. Conveniently.  Not then. They were thrown under the bus by the record company.

Some rock critics are paid to review and they have their favorites.  During the late 60's it was rare to find a favorable review.  And I'd say that FH "exposed" millions of viewers to the music.  Thirty years of global syndication.  In the States, it gets no fewer than four hours a day on Nick, both east and west.  An Uncle Jesse shirt in 2015 is an uncontravertable  indicator of a young market share. Even now.  Especially now.

The argument fails.  LOL
« Last Edit: October 29, 2015, 10:53:07 AM by filledeplage » Logged
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« Reply #47 on: October 29, 2015, 11:01:44 AM »

GF has explained the contradiction of the 1980s-1990s period well: It was the archival 1960s BBs vs. the watered down brand still touring with Stamos.

The past glories vs. the present miseries.....
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« Reply #48 on: October 29, 2015, 11:12:52 AM »

GF has explained the contradiction of the 1980s-1990s period well: It was the archival 1960s BBs vs. the watered down brand still touring with Stamos.

The past glories vs. the present miseries.....
And that would include Stamos performing with both Carl and Brian. Those miseries?
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« Reply #49 on: October 29, 2015, 11:29:46 AM »

Cruisin' which went platinum. The first Beach Boys' major comp released during/after the show's popular run that included Dennis' "Forever" was Good Vibrations: Thirty Years Of The Beach Boys, which went gold. And, in my opinion, what units of Summer In Paradise that were sold were aided by "Forever", not despite it. I will agree with your point that the Summer In Paradise poster on Stamos' wall didn't have much of an effect on sales.
How many people liked specifically the Stamos covers of “Forever” on the TV show, then decided they wanted the original recording, and then bought a five-disc boxed set as a result?

In my opinion, several thousand. I also think this ultimately led to several thousand fans discovering Pacific Ocean Blue.
[/quote]

We're lucky then that we weren't subsequently gifted with a fully-redone version of the album, which could have been titled "Pacific Ocean Stamos".
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