Does your fandom ruin the music?

[KDS]

I can't really say I've gotten to the point where there's any bands I can't listen to or movies I can't watch due to the effect you're speaking about. 

Although I will admit that I'll be avoiding the new Ghostbusters movie like the plague when its released next summer.  Luckily, it's not part of the original franchise. 

I'll be really really surprised if that movie doesn't blow. They ruin every other franchise, why not this one.

Agreed 100%.  But, call me close minded, I don't care.  I'll never find out.  I'm not a fan of Paul Feig.  I'm not a fan of Melissa McCarthy.  And I'm not a fan of 2000s SNL.  So, to me, there's nothing to entice me to want to spend two hours of my time with this movie.  Time is finite after all. 

I'm just glad this is a remake and not a third entry to the original franchise.  Easier to dismiss that way. 

[Emily]

This feeling was particularly strong when the movie came out, I felt a little weird just giving him up to the public like that.

Are we a 'normal' fan base?  For example, do Rolling Stones fans get together like this to talk about stuff, extol the intricacies of each song, and moan about Mike Love?

I'd guess the vast majority of people who saw Love and Mercy are already BB fans or are music geeks or film geeks, of which there's a huge overlap and shared knowledge, so most of them were already well aware of BW.
Also yeah there are lots of artists that inspire obsession among fans. Certainly Presley, The Beatles, Lady Gaga, Taylor Swift, Jim Morrison/The Doors, ummm and I'm sure a ton between the 60's and 2000's but they aren't coming to mind (Edited to add: Oh yeah, like Nirvana, Tupac, Jay Z, Kanye [but now I'm getting back into the 2000's]).
Though I do think a special thing with the BBs is that for most of the fans, it's a lot more about the music than the personalities. I mean, sure, the drama can be fascinating in a soapy way, and BW inspires a lot of compassion, but I don't think anyone's into the BBs in a big way without the music being the primary and deepest draw. And they've provided such a deep well of varied and complex music that discovery can continue for years.
I've known a lot of Beatles obsessors who like lots of their songs, but don't really listen very deeply, and are attracted by the personalities, either the whole peace and love thing or more simply having a crush on one or the other. And I don't mean original 60's fans; I mean new fans, still. Now, don't get me wrong, I think the Beatles as a group and as solo artists have created amazing music well worth obsessing over, but a big percentage of the obsession is about personality.
 With Jim Morrison I think there's a kind of morbid fascination. With TS and Gaga I think teen girls are sometimes desperate for a role model that isn't just pretty eye candy maybe pretending to be smart on TV.  And etc with other icons.
I do think there's something special with the BBs and I don't think I'm just patting myself on the back.
Also, after the R&R Hall of Fame thing, I suppose Rolling Stones fans do some moaning about Mike Love, but probably not much.  

[Paul J B]

Hell no. I have not been there from 61 but long enough that they have been a big part of my life for decades and the music has only grown for me as the years go by. When Denny and Carl were alive, and they came to town, it was like they were my RELATIVES that I saw once a year. I knew these guys. As soon as the show ended I was already looking forward to our next meeting. There were many bumps along the way and losing Denny and Carl really sucked.....but then....Brian....in '99 at the Pabst theater in my hometown...with this band that sounded EXACTLY like the records. That was like a resurrection. Then TSS and 2012 with David Marks....Brian and the boys have endured beyond even their own expectations I'm sure. And when the last Beach Boy leaves this world the gift they left us will live on for people who have not even been born yet. My 7 year old daughter asked me to sing Surfer Girl to help her fall asleep a couple of years ago. That was incredible for me. My fandom has apparently come full circle.

[bonnie bella]

The Beatles fan base is pretty intense, you don't even need to be near them to feel it.

Chick with the rainbow hair (sorry, haven't even tried the quote button), you are probably right in that the music attracted us first.  When I looked up BW on day two or three of my discovery, I was so disappointed to see what had happened to him throughout his life.  I thought it might cast a shadow on his music, but there is a certain enrichment that comes from these struggles, as sad as that sounds.  I'm glad I found the music first, and the rest later.

Andrew, In America Brian Wilson may be a well known name, but where I'm from, not so much. One of the few people who knew who BW was, was a guy called Brian Wilson.  He was fairly non-plussed about sharing his name with a total legend.  (I was even stupid enough to ask if his mother named him after Brian.  Apparently not.)

[NOLA BB Fan]

I've been a BB fan since childhood (mid 60s).  No other group has had so many songs that affect me emotionally. Can't listen to Warmth of the Sun, God Only Knows, or Forever without choking up. There probably are a few more like that.  Plus wow songs like Don't Worry Baby and wouldn't it be Nice, and exhilarating  songs such as GV. Plus ones that affect me  on so many other levels such as those on PS, TSS, Today, etc (particularly Surfs Up). Thought Brian and especially Carl had the most gorgeous voices.

Was aware that there were 'troubles' with the band but didn't want to hear  or read about them- fingers in ears singing 'la la la la'. Had learned to feel sorry for poor Brian; whenever I'd see him on TV it was painful as he was so out of it.  Not an expert on the band but when Carl died I remember exclaiming 'oh no, not Carl' as if I knew instinctively how devastating that was.

Saw Love and Mercy so finally found out a lot of painful stuff I didn't know before. So decided that I had no choice but to read about the troubles. My God!!  Driving me batty!

So to make it brief the knowledge I'm getting as a fan doesn't ruin the music but sometimes tempers the good feelings, particularly the baggage behind songs such as Surfs Up and H&V

Elizabeth

[Andrew G. Doe]

Andrew, In America Brian Wilson may be a well known name, but where I'm from, not so much.

In England, where l'm from, Brian's pretty well known.

[chaki]

once you realize that brian and mike are both dicks in their own way you can be free to enjoy the bbs again.

[sockittome]

Do you ever feel that you're too into The Beach Boys to the point that it hampers your enjoyment of the music?

Never

[bonnie bella]

Andrew, In England, where you are from, there is clearly a huge musical appreciation of Brian's work.

I'm thinking minnows and swimming fast right now, just in case...

[KDS]

Andrew, In England, where you are from, there is clearly a huge musical appreciation of Brian's work.

I'm thinking minnows and swimming fast right now, just in case...

The UK seems to have a better appreciation for Brian's full body of work.  They "got" Pet Sounds long before the US.  And there seems to be a greater appreciation for the post surf/car stuff. 

[buddhahat]

I think however since you're realizing the phenomena you've already won the battle.  

One thing I've noticed over the years is that it's hard to see anything with fresh eyes.  I can remember how the Beach Boys sounded to me the first time I heard them in any depth (not just on the radio)... I can remember the first time I listened to Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, and my friend explaining to me how this does this, and that's Ringo singing, etc.

Ron, you're absolutely right. In the run up to the release of Smile in 2011, I was dreading the possibility that they'd fly the humble harv demo lyrics into Great Shape, Barnyard and other stuff. When it came out, and they did that, I realised I had a choice - I either spent the rest of my life bemoaning what could've been, or I accepted that they needed to flesh sections like Barnyard out to make the Smile album a bit more accessible, accept it, and enjoy the album. It worked for me and the officially release Beach Boys Smile became the Smile for me. It was a relief to stop the fan mixes to be honest.

I love your point about seeing stuff with fresh eyes (or hearing with fresh ears, I guess). It's so hard to do, especially with stuff as overplayed as Sgt pepper, but I think it is possible to have that 'aha' moment still when something you've played a billion times can still sound fresh. For The Beatles, Strawberry Fields is the song that does it for me still. For The Beach Boys, Pet Sounds still knocks me out every now and then. And the Smile material of course. I'm sure I read a quote from VDP where he talked about them trying to create stuff that would stand up to repeated listening. I think a lot of Beach Boys music has that quality.

[buddhahat]

Without a doubt, my ludicrous degree of fandom has affected my simple enjoyment. Can't say it's actually ruined it, but l frequently long for the days when l could listen to a track and think, "yeah, like it" as opposed to " well, considering what was going on, it's not too shabby". Wish l knew less.

Yeah I think with Brian Wilson, knowing the back catalogue (and back story) can detract from the enjoyment.

When you know that 50% of whatever newly released album happens to be stuff he wrote 20+ years ago it takes the enjoyment away a bit. But then, should it matter? If we didn't know any different we could enjoy the music at face value right? I think with Brian and the ever-present "does he still have *it*?" question looming large, whether the material is new or not seems all the more pertinent.

[KDS]

Without a doubt, my ludicrous degree of fandom has affected my simple enjoyment. Can't say it's actually ruined it, but l frequently long for the days when l could listen to a track and think, "yeah, like it" as opposed to " well, considering what was going on, it's not too shabby". Wish l knew less.

Yeah I think with Brian Wilson, knowing the back catalogue (and back story) can detract from the enjoyment.

When you know that 50% of whatever newly released album happens to be stuff he wrote 20+ years ago it takes the enjoyment away a bit. But then, should it matter? If we didn't know any different we could enjoy the music at face value right? I think with Brian and the ever-present "does he still have *it*?" question looming large, whether the material is new or not seems all the more pertinent.

Considering Brian and The Beach Boys have had a history of resurrecting older songs for new tracks, this kind of thing doesn't bother me, as long as the songs are good.  Other bands have done the same.  Some of the tracks on Van Halens 2012 comeback album date back to the late 70s.   The Beatles resurrected One After 909 for Let It Be.   

When I listen to TWGMTR or NPP, it really doesn't matter to me if some of the songs were written in 1977, 1998, 2011, or 2014.  I still enjoy most of them. 

[donald]

Without a doubt, my ludicrous degree of fandom has affected my simple enjoyment. Can't say it's actually ruined it, but l frequently long for the days when l could listen to a track and think, "yeah, like it" as opposed to " well, considering what was going on, it's not too shabby". Wish l knew less.

I fall into this category. My happiest time as a Beach Boys' fan was when I was a relative newbie. In 1974-75-76, all I owned was Endless Summer and an import comp called The Beach Boys Best 40 Greatest Hits which filled in the gaps. I read one book by Ken Barnes, there was no internet, and my favorite publication was the TV Guide which I scoured weekly for any TV appearances. But most importantly, all I knew was the prevailing stereotypes. Brian was the shy, sensitive genius who wrote all the songs; Mike was flashy, outgoing "front man", Dennis was the athletic, rowdy "real Beach Boy", Carl was the quiet Beach Boy with the tender voice, and Al was the gentleman farmer who liked folk music. And that was all I needed to know - for a little while at least. But, that was the simplest, purest, happiest time I ever had as a Beach Boys fan!

Seriously, it was 99% about the music on those records. That was about to change with the "Brian's Back" campaign, David Leaf's book, and all the other drama - actually tragedy - from 1977-1983. But even with all of that soap opera stuff, the music won out. I did get to know more about the individual Beach Boys. I did get to know about the genesis of the songs I was listening to. I did get to see the original group in concert. And, I did live and die with each crazy thing that I read in a magazine or saw on TV. It was quite a fascinating ride. And, up until Dennis' death and Brian's second stint with Landy, the fandom didn't ruin my enjoyment of the music, and in some instances, it actually added to the depth. Then things started to change, slowly but surely.

Starting with The Beach Boys 1985, things just "felt" different. Things in the Beach Boys' world  seemed contrived. Who was really calling the shots, who was really writing and producing the songs, do these guys even like each other, do they even care, why are they still a group, WHO ARE THESE GUYS? The purity of the Beach Boys started to fade for me. As crazy as that 1974-1982 period was - and it was crazy - it still felt like the real Beach Boys, warts and all. And maybe because of those warts you knew it was real. I mean, what other group could possibly come up with the stuff that was coming out of The Beach Boys. You couldn't dream this stuff up if you tried. Maybe I was starting to know too much. Maybe, no, I WAS becoming jaded. Skeptical. But, I mean, how many "Brian Is Really Back This Time" campaigns can one fan endure?

Which leads to Brian's solo career. I won't get too much into that because I'm familiar with many of the posters on this board; they won't get it (my perspective) anyway, they won't allow themselves to get it. They would rather sling insults and name call. Their love of Brian Wilson, or who they think he is, and because his music has given them so much happiness, I think - I THINK - makes people very defensive of him. I'm curious to see or read their perspectives as the years go by and they learn even more about Brian and The Beach Boys. One thing we've all learned on this board is that over time, myths are dispelled and truths will come out. That knowledge (if you want to call it that) has to change one's perspective.

On a recent thread (I don't recall the exact thread or the exact poster), somebody posted and I paraphrase, "I'm tired of all the smoke and mirrors with Brian's solo career." Again, I'm not going to elaborate because I don't need any War And Peace-length lectures/responses, but Brian's "career" has worn me down, not out but down. It is difficult for me to get full enjoyment from Brian's solo music starting way back with Imagination in 1998 because I will find myself, sometimes subconsciously, asking, "I wonder who wrote that part?", "I wonder who really produced that track/album?", "Does Brian really care about this project?", "Who's idea was this to begin with?", and the most asked question, "If Brian was left to his own devices, would he have really done this song/album/concert/etc." There was a time when it wasn't necessary to ask those questions. But, when that time came, yeah, things changed...

[donald]

sorry about that blank response.     Just wanted to respond that I agree with, endorse your perspective and always enjoy your postings.      but I still enjoy random rediscovery of pieces of the catalogue.   today, re listened to NPP and enjoyed most of it and listened to disc 4 of the MIC box and just loved the sound quality and sequencing.    and also enjoyed much of it on a more visceral, just joyful level.     It IS  a different experience than it was when I was rediscovering the band the first or second time,  but continues to reward and comfort on a number of levels.   I probably now listen more to other OLD music in between BB listenings

[Magic Transistor Radio]

Here is a good example of fan knowledge making an album less enjoyable: Surfs Up lp! It is a great album and in my opinion, the best songs are better than anything on Sunflower in my opinion. But also has weeker tracks as well. But since we know the week cut could have been replaced by a few Dennis songs, it can ruin it for a lot of people.

[KDS]

Here is a good example of fan knowledge making an album less enjoyable: Surfs Up lp! It is a great album and in my opinion, the best songs are better than anything on Sunflower in my opinion. But also has weeker tracks as well. But since we know the week cut could have been replaced by a few Dennis songs, it can ruin it for a lot of people.

I always say the same thing about the Surf's Up album.  I like the great songs on Surf's Up better than most of Sunflower, but Sunflower is a much better record song for song. 

[JK]

I've suffered Beach Boys Burnout in the not too distant past, mainly through a surfeit (no pun intended) of alternative takes and sessions, but seem to be back on track now, to the point of playing their albums again (and loving them).

I'm not anal, as they say, but always ready to learn new facts about the music. Who hit whom, why and with what, however, is wasted on me.

[Smilin Ed H]

My fandom doesn't, but some other people's does.

[MikestheGreatest!!]

Yes, I definitely think my fandom has ruined much of the Boys music for me.  I have simply heard it too much.  The magic for the most part is gone.

Actually listened to NPP quite a lot on release, too much probably, as now I am tired of it too.  Haven't listened to any BBs albums now for probably six months.  May take a few years off, hopefully that will renew them to me upon later listening, but really don't think so, unless Alzheimer's has kicked in by then.....maybe one of its only benefits?

[The Cincinnati Kid]

Yes, I definitely think my fandom has ruined much of the Boys music for me.  I have simply heard it too much.  The magic for the most part is gone.

Actually listened to NPP quite a lot on release, too much probably, as now I am tired of it too.  Haven't listened to any BBs albums now for probably six months.  May take a few years off, hopefully that will renew them to me upon later listening, but really don't think so, unless Alzheimer's has kicked in by then.....maybe one of its only benefits?

How long had you been listening to them before it became too much?

[KDS]

Yes, I definitely think my fandom has ruined much of the Boys music for me.  I have simply heard it too much.  The magic for the most part is gone.

Actually listened to NPP quite a lot on release, too much probably, as now I am tired of it too.  Haven't listened to any BBs albums now for probably six months.  May take a few years off, hopefully that will renew them to me upon later listening, but really don't think so, unless Alzheimer's has kicked in by then.....maybe one of its only benefits?

Give it time.  There are bands that I've burned myself out on, but after a while - sometimes a year, sometimes five years - I always go back. 

[branaa09]

once you realize that brian and mike are both dicks in their own way you can be free to enjoy the bbs again.

Ok bud, hows Brian a dick in his own way? Hmmmm did he listen to the session musicians and incorporate their ideas as well as the other Beach Boys into the music? Yes. Did he tell Mike I don't ever want to work with you again? No. Did he try to take publishing rights from Mike and the other Beach Boys? No. Did he beat up Rocky Pamplin when he caught him sleeping with his wife, no once again. Did he hit his brothers for anything at all? Brian was a gentle soul like Carl. You are here to spread your bs but, the fans and fact finders are going to piss on your parade. Here's a good idea quit lying or leave!

[MikestheGreatest!!]

Yes, I definitely think my fandom has ruined much of the Boys music for me.  I have simply heard it too much.  The magic for the most part is gone.

Actually listened to NPP quite a lot on release, too much probably, as now I am tired of it too.  Haven't listened to any BBs albums now for probably six months.  May take a few years off, hopefully that will renew them to me upon later listening, but really don't think so, unless Alzheimer's has kicked in by then.....maybe one of its only benefits?

How long had you been listening to them before it became too much?

Actually have listened to them for decades, pretty much faithfully since the mid-sixties.  Have listened in particular to 20/20/Friends twofer and Sunflower/SU 2fer over the last year.  Guess I will have to amend this somewhat, will listen to the new Party album, just to hear the unheard (at least by me) tracks, but otherwise, I'm out of here listening wise for a good long spell.   And yes have taken prior sabbaticals from listening, but I am truly just kinda sick and tired of listening to the group anymore.  Though I still enjoy reading about them.

Oh, as an aside, started to read the Paul Williams book about them (How Deep, not Outlaw), had read of course the Brian Smile articles long ago, but the overall tone of his in regard to the BBs was so adulatory and in the tank, I simply could not respect it or enjoy it so I stopped reading it.  It was shocking to me to realize that Williams was only 18 when he visited Brian during the Smile sessions and was talking about the good dope they had smoked and hanging out in the pool with Brian at his home overlooking the city lights of LA.  I'm thinking, how can his criticism (if you could call it that) ever be taken seriously at least in regards to the BBs and especially Brian.  It is obvious that was a seminal moment in his life and that he forever had lost any objectivity regarding the group, as the rest of the book showed.

[ontor pertawst]

Because he was a helluva guy and an enthusiastic writer who is sorely missed. Hell, he put up with my teenage letters nagging him about Philip K Dick for YEARS and would send me xeroxes of unpublished work... anybody talks sh*t about Paul Williams, i'm gonna scream like a stuck pig! He was a lovely man and the planet isn't as fun without him on it.

What's to be objective about? He was doing reviews and a bit gonzo so obviously his opions are subjective, but his enthusiasm for topics he loved was infectious. Not the writer to read for dry facts and figures, he loved sharing his passions with the world. It radiated from everything he wrote, and I wish I was into BW's music as much back when we corresponded... what a missed opportunity! I could've mixed in rhapsodizing about Wild Honey with theorizing about Phil's bonkers Exegesis. RIP, Paul Williams!